To be or NOT to be - Crabtree

Originally posted by JayBee:
Can someone provide proof as to Crabtree's route running? I keep hearing he runs the wrong routes or is a poor route runner. Please provide proof of this instead of regurgitating the same bull. Lets get some youtube videos or something.

Singletary strongly alluded to the fact Crabtree was not on the correct line in at least two situations I recall.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by djfullshred:

Originally posted by JayBee:
Can someone provide proof as to Crabtree's route running? I keep hearing he runs the wrong routes or is a poor route runner. Please provide proof of this instead of regurgitating the same bull. Lets get some youtube videos or something.

What, repeating the same things other people repeated that other people repeated on the Interent not proof enough for you?

Yeah, Crabtree's poor route running was commented numerous times during broadcasts and in particular, by Brian Billick.

-9fA

First of all... 9fA is correct.....we've all pretty much read this article.

Secondly, I hate it when people demand proof and it's clear they just started reading Niner news two days ago....

Anyway here it is ....

During Crabtree’s one-catch-for-one-yard performance against Seattle in December, FOX analyst

****** Brian Billick said he ran imprecise routes. Asked later about Billick’s analysis, then-offensive coordinator Mike Johnson didn’t disagree.******

“Well that’s something that a lot of the young wide receivers have to go through, they have to go through a progression of understanding how to run routes the way true route runners run them,” Johnson said. “That’s not a knock against Crabtree, that’s just a fact of him being a young football player and still learning and developing, but I think he’s working hard at his craft.”

Crabtree isn’t alone. Besides the occasional outlier (see Moss, Randy), it often takes wide receivers — even the best ones — a few seasons to fully transition to the NFL (see White, Roddy). Consider that Crabtree has played 27 NFL games and has more catches (103) than Detroit’s Calvin Johnson (101), Green Bay’s Greg Jennings (98) and Miami’s Brandon Marshall (85) did at the same stage in their careers.

It remains to be seen if Crabtree joins the NFL’s elite. He certainly won’t make the breakthrough due to breakaway speed. But it’s worth remembering his route running and inconsistency aren’t unusual for a 23-year-old wide receiver. Below is a look at how Crabtree compares to the NFL’s top wide receivers at the 27-game stage in their careers:

Goes on to list WRs

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/03/inside-the-49ers/like-many-nfl-wrs-crabtree-could-catch-on-later/

The issue isn't whether or not Crabtree runs imprecise routes or at this stage of his NFL career hasn't fully yet realized his potential. The issue is HOW DOES ONE RUN BETTER ROUTES AND PERFORM? Well, let's take a guess, I don't know ... practice? Establishing a rapport/chemistry with your QB?

Let's compare to how other team's WRs are doing ....

"Last week, Tebow flew Broncos wide receiver Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney and Britt Davis to Jacksonville, put them up in a nearby hotel, and then led a week of workouts in his hometown, [a league] source said," according to Schefter.

"Each of the Broncos receivers had hoped to come, the source said, but Eric Decker had another commitment, andDemaryius Thomas (torn Achilles) and Eddie Royal (strained hamstring) were unable to practice at this time due to lingering injuries."

Schefter adds that the receivers who showed up in Jacksonville "considered it such a success that the group plans to reconvene in another week or so in Arizona for two weeks of intensive workouts."

Llyod seemed to have pretty damn good rapport already with his QB but he's still working to get better .... why? Oh I don't know ...... well since you can only have workout sessions with coaches watching ...(what BS).

Tebow is their QB of the future. Alex is a frigging free agent. Is Fitz working out with Andersen or Skelton?

As far as route running...that article says nothing about it being bad. He's on par with his peers. Some were acting as if he had horrible route running and that is what hurt Alex. Bull!

So like I thought, you didn't actually SEE his "bad" route running for yourself, you're just going by someone else's opinion. Typical.

Dude - you've just exposed yourself. You're not here to debate facts, you're just here to stir the pot, to be a troll. JordanTarver anyone?

this

Crabtree is clearly a big disappointment, if not in his production, in his attitude and work ethic.

I will give him a little slack until I see how he responds to Harbaugh and the new offense. If Crabtree continues his same nonsense under Harbaugh then it will be clear he is the diva Mangini saw.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by djfullshred:

Originally posted by JayBee:
Can someone provide proof as to Crabtree's route running? I keep hearing he runs the wrong routes or is a poor route runner. Please provide proof of this instead of regurgitating the same bull. Lets get some youtube videos or something.

What, repeating the same things other people repeated that other people repeated on the Interent not proof enough for you?

Yeah, Crabtree's poor route running was commented numerous times during broadcasts and in particular, by Brian Billick.

-9fA

First of all... 9fA is correct.....we've all pretty much read this article.

Secondly, I hate it when people demand proof and it's clear they just started reading Niner news two days ago....

Anyway here it is ....

During Crabtree’s one-catch-for-one-yard performance against Seattle in December, FOX analyst

****** Brian Billick said he ran imprecise routes. Asked later about Billick’s analysis, then-offensive coordinator Mike Johnson didn’t disagree.******

“Well that’s something that a lot of the young wide receivers have to go through, they have to go through a progression of understanding how to run routes the way true route runners run them,” Johnson said. “That’s not a knock against Crabtree, that’s just a fact of him being a young football player and still learning and developing, but I think he’s working hard at his craft.”

Crabtree isn’t alone. Besides the occasional outlier (see Moss, Randy), it often takes wide receivers — even the best ones — a few seasons to fully transition to the NFL (see White, Roddy). Consider that Crabtree has played 27 NFL games and has more catches (103) than Detroit’s Calvin Johnson (101), Green Bay’s Greg Jennings (98) and Miami’s Brandon Marshall (85) did at the same stage in their careers.

It remains to be seen if Crabtree joins the NFL’s elite. He certainly won’t make the breakthrough due to breakaway speed. But it’s worth remembering his route running and inconsistency aren’t unusual for a 23-year-old wide receiver. Below is a look at how Crabtree compares to the NFL’s top wide receivers at the 27-game stage in their careers:

Goes on to list WRs

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/03/inside-the-49ers/like-many-nfl-wrs-crabtree-could-catch-on-later/

The issue isn't whether or not Crabtree runs imprecise routes or at this stage of his NFL career hasn't fully yet realized his potential. The issue is HOW DOES ONE RUN BETTER ROUTES AND PERFORM? Well, let's take a guess, I don't know ... practice? Establishing a rapport/chemistry with your QB?

Let's compare to how other team's WRs are doing ....

"Last week, Tebow flew Broncos wide receiver Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney and Britt Davis to Jacksonville, put them up in a nearby hotel, and then led a week of workouts in his hometown, [a league] source said," according to Schefter.

"Each of the Broncos receivers had hoped to come, the source said, but Eric Decker had another commitment, andDemaryius Thomas (torn Achilles) and Eddie Royal (strained hamstring) were unable to practice at this time due to lingering injuries."

Schefter adds that the receivers who showed up in Jacksonville "considered it such a success that the group plans to reconvene in another week or so in Arizona for two weeks of intensive workouts."

Llyod seemed to have pretty damn good rapport already with his QB but he's still working to get better .... why? Oh I don't know ...... well since you can only have workout sessions with coaches watching ...(what BS).

Tebow is their QB of the future. Alex is a frigging free agent. Is Fitz working out with Andersen or Skelton?

As far as route running...that article says nothing about it being bad. He's on par with his peers. Some were acting as if he had horrible route running and that is what hurt Alex. Bull!

So like I thought, you didn't actually SEE his "bad" route running for yourself, you're just going by someone else's opinion. Typical.

Dude - you've just exposed yourself. You're not here to debate facts, you're just here to stir the pot, to be a troll. JordanTarver anyone?

Not really, I just like to laugh at all the contradictions.

Originally posted by dj43:
Crabtree is clearly a big disappointment, if not in his production, in his attitude and work ethic.

I will give him a little slack until I see how he responds to Harbaugh and the new offense. If Crabtree continues his same nonsense under Harbaugh then it will be clear he is the diva Mangini saw.

YOu pretty much hit the nail right on the head. I mean i'm only saying this once, which is why i dont get this Jay Bee guy. You would of thought that he was Crabs agent.

I mean i laugh wholeheartedly because lets see.... Both Matts, Tim K, Lynch, at least 95% of the fan base, Coach Sing, Billick, and some forget even MJ all talked about Crabs lack of production in certain areas due to lack of practice at his craft.

M. Johnson before the end of the season even talked about Crabs, saying the reason why he was so productive his rookie year is cuz they gave him just a few routes to run, and he did that to perfection.

The next season he seemed to have regressed. I mean he did ok, but to be real if your looking at the reality. Troy and Alex had their worst stats when throwing Crab's way. Thats fact, not fiction. Their INT's also went up when throwing his way.

I loved when he got in there with Troy. A lot tried to paint the picture, like, see you guys, it was Alex which is why Crabs was unproductive. But if my memory serves me correct. With all the rollouts Troy had, it was all after plays broke down. So now it became just find someone open, then crabs shined. On the average stay in the pocket with Troy, and just run the regular routes in Crabs, he didnt flourish at all.

So I agree with Jay in saying it may not be all his fault, cuz u do have to blame some on the QB, however, if he built that rapport with Smith, and then he still failed, then at least i could say he put the time in to getting himself better, and the QB just couldnt get him the ball. At this point its more on Crabs than on the QB.

The old saying used to go, You can lead a horse to water but u cant make him drink. And i think thats where we are with Crabs right now, u can give him all the tools you want, and give all the services at his disposal, but if doesnt take advantage of them then thats on him.

Oh and before I go, here's another fact. If i was a starting WR in the league, and the GOAT said that all i'd have to do is call, and he'd work with me, I would of done it ASAP. To this day about almost 2 yrs later, he still hasnt reached out. And thats someone trying to be great, I'd have to beg to differ.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by djfullshred:

Originally posted by JayBee:
Can someone provide proof as to Crabtree's route running? I keep hearing he runs the wrong routes or is a poor route runner. Please provide proof of this instead of regurgitating the same bull. Lets get some youtube videos or something.

What, repeating the same things other people repeated that other people repeated on the Interent not proof enough for you?

Yeah, Crabtree's poor route running was commented numerous times during broadcasts and in particular, by Brian Billick.

-9fA

First of all... 9fA is correct.....we've all pretty much read this article.

Secondly, I hate it when people demand proof and it's clear they just started reading Niner news two days ago....

Anyway here it is ....

During Crabtree’s one-catch-for-one-yard performance against Seattle in December, FOX analyst

****** Brian Billick said he ran imprecise routes. Asked later about Billick’s analysis, then-offensive coordinator Mike Johnson didn’t disagree.******

“Well that’s something that a lot of the young wide receivers have to go through, they have to go through a progression of understanding how to run routes the way true route runners run them,” Johnson said. “That’s not a knock against Crabtree, that’s just a fact of him being a young football player and still learning and developing, but I think he’s working hard at his craft.”

Crabtree isn’t alone. Besides the occasional outlier (see Moss, Randy), it often takes wide receivers — even the best ones — a few seasons to fully transition to the NFL (see White, Roddy). Consider that Crabtree has played 27 NFL games and has more catches (103) than Detroit’s Calvin Johnson (101), Green Bay’s Greg Jennings (98) and Miami’s Brandon Marshall (85) did at the same stage in their careers.

It remains to be seen if Crabtree joins the NFL’s elite. He certainly won’t make the breakthrough due to breakaway speed. But it’s worth remembering his route running and inconsistency aren’t unusual for a 23-year-old wide receiver. Below is a look at how Crabtree compares to the NFL’s top wide receivers at the 27-game stage in their careers:

Goes on to list WRs

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/03/inside-the-49ers/like-many-nfl-wrs-crabtree-could-catch-on-later/

The issue isn't whether or not Crabtree runs imprecise routes or at this stage of his NFL career hasn't fully yet realized his potential. The issue is HOW DOES ONE RUN BETTER ROUTES AND PERFORM? Well, let's take a guess, I don't know ... practice? Establishing a rapport/chemistry with your QB?

Let's compare to how other team's WRs are doing ....

"Last week, Tebow flew Broncos wide receiver Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney and Britt Davis to Jacksonville, put them up in a nearby hotel, and then led a week of workouts in his hometown, [a league] source said," according to Schefter.

"Each of the Broncos receivers had hoped to come, the source said, but Eric Decker had another commitment, andDemaryius Thomas (torn Achilles) and Eddie Royal (strained hamstring) were unable to practice at this time due to lingering injuries."

Schefter adds that the receivers who showed up in Jacksonville "considered it such a success that the group plans to reconvene in another week or so in Arizona for two weeks of intensive workouts."

Llyod seemed to have pretty damn good rapport already with his QB but he's still working to get better .... why? Oh I don't know ...... well since you can only have workout sessions with coaches watching ...(what BS).

Snapshot in time factor that makes repeating what others say become innacurate over time. An analogy I can relate to - back when I used to play guitar in a band, I had my bad gigs from time to time. So maybe at that time it would have been correct to say I played sloppy. But if you said it a year later after i had been practicing, before you heard me play again? Then you are just talking out yer arse IMO.

Ok I just don't get how everyone has no patience with crabs but we have spent 6 now going on 7 years for alex to get it. Yes I understand alex had bad coaching so in that same argument why can't you say that about crabs?

These arguments are stupid like someone already pointed out crabs stats are better than Calvin Johnsons in his first 2 years so why hate so much? I do believe the great Jerry rice spent every offseason by him self running hills and making him self a better athlete. Now just because you haven't heard it yet doesn't mean crabs isn't doing something similar. He like to workout on his own, half of our team does including Willis and vd. So because crabs hasn't had a probowl year he gets no slack? But he does what our other stars do so why not.

Look I agree that he needs to work with alex some but hey he is in the bay area right now training on his own and when it comes time and alex holds the player mini camps let's see if he shows up, cuz I think he will. That why he flew out here when he was already training in Texas. Crabs is gonna be a great receiver and I think when it's kaeps turn to he qb crabs will be a star in this league. But hey haters gone hate, at least until then

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
Crabtree is clearly a big disappointment, if not in his production, in his attitude and work ethic.

I will give him a little slack until I see how he responds to Harbaugh and the new offense. If Crabtree continues his same nonsense under Harbaugh then it will be clear he is the diva Mangini saw.

YOu pretty much hit the nail right on the head. I mean i'm only saying this once, which is why i dont get this Jay Bee guy. You would of thought that he was Crabs agent.

I mean i laugh wholeheartedly because lets see.... Both Matts, Tim K, Lynch, at least 95% of the fan base, Coach Sing, Billick, and some forget even MJ all talked about Crabs lack of production in certain areas due to lack of practice at his craft.

M. Johnson before the end of the season even talked about Crabs, saying the reason why he was so productive his rookie year is cuz they gave him just a few routes to run, and he did that to perfection.

The next season he seemed to have regressed. I mean he did ok, but to be real if your looking at the reality. Troy and Alex had their worst stats when throwing Crab's way. Thats fact, not fiction. Their INT's also went up when throwing his way.

I loved when he got in there with Troy. A lot tried to paint the picture, like, see you guys, it was Alex which is why Crabs was unproductive. But if my memory serves me correct. With all the rollouts Troy had, it was all after plays broke down. So now it became just find someone open, then crabs shined. On the average stay in the pocket with Troy, and just run the regular routes in Crabs, he didnt flourish at all.

So I agree with Jay in saying it may not be all his fault, cuz u do have to blame some on the QB, however, if he built that rapport with Smith, and then he still failed, then at least i could say he put the time in to getting himself better, and the QB just couldnt get him the ball. At this point its more on Crabs than on the QB.

The old saying used to go, You can lead a horse to water but u cant make him drink. And i think thats where we are with Crabs right now, u can give him all the tools you want, and give all the services at his disposal, but if doesnt take advantage of them then thats on him.

Oh and before I go, here's another fact. If i was a starting WR in the league, and the GOAT said that all i'd have to do is call, and he'd work with me, I would of done it ASAP. To this day about almost 2 yrs later, he still hasnt reached out. And thats someone trying to be great, I'd have to beg to differ.

How many years does it take a player to build rapport with a QB? You act as if they have never played together. They've played more than 20 games together. If you're still talking about building a rapport after 20+ games then that speaks volumes of your QB.

And how did Troy have better rapport with Crabs when he never even practiced with him? You try to discount the plays as being "broken plays" when that is NOT true. Crabs looked like a different receiver with Troy out there.

Compare Crabs' numbers in his first 2 seasons against any of the elite's WR's first 2 seasons. He looks pretty damn good and that's with having Alex Smith, Shaun Hill and Troy Smith throwing him passes.

The issue is the QB, period.

Who cares about players attitudes? Seriously, I just love watching the sport of football, I could care less how these guys act off the field be it contract disputes or their camera friendliness. The guy produced fine in his first 2 years, he is only going to get better with better coaching, just like everyone else on the team. Not every player can be a media darling like Alex Smith.

Originally posted by Kiwihill:
Ok I just don't get how everyone has no patience with crabs but we have spent 6 now going on 7 years for alex to get it. Yes I understand alex had bad coaching so in that same argument why can't you say that about crabs?

These arguments are stupid like someone already pointed out crabs stats are better than Calvin Johnsons in his first 2 years so why hate so much? I do believe the great Jerry rice spent every offseason by him self running hills and making him self a better athlete. Now just because you haven't heard it yet doesn't mean crabs isn't doing something similar. He like to workout on his own, half of our team does including Willis and vd. So because crabs hasn't had a probowl year he gets no slack? But he does what our other stars do so why not.

Look I agree that he needs to work with alex some but hey he is in the bay area right now training on his own and when it comes time and alex holds the player mini camps let's see if he shows up, cuz I think he will. That why he flew out here when he was already training in Texas. Crabs is gonna be a great receiver and I think when it's kaeps turn to he qb crabs will be a star in this league. But hey haters gone hate, at least until then

Lord Megatron atleast works with his QB and practices. Crabs doesnt. with CJ it really doesnt matter who the QB is, he did it with 3 or 4 different QBs last year and was still among the best in the legue. dude would of made shaun hill a probowler if he didnt get hurt. Crabs was responsible for how many retarded INTs bouncing off his hands or making the wrong breaks? not just for alex but troy too. Crabs needs to learn as much as he can and practice with his teamates. even if people are saying practicing wrong could hurt them, atleast theyre all on the same page, even if it isnt run 100%. with this lockout it screws up a lot of things but timing is still the most important part of football, if the timing between a QB and receiver is off thats where problems occur.

Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:
Crabtree needs to get his act together I think he wouldn't be a niner if it wasn't for McCloughan or Singletary. The niners gave him a massive contract which HE thought he deserved but clearly no one else did. Crabtree seems to be about himself and not the team, it goes beyond shyness why didn't he sign with the team immediately and now why is he missing team gatherings he needs to learn the playbook.

Last year with a lame offensive system he had trouble running routes how the hell does it get easier with the WCO? its about precision and thats one of his biggest knocks. I was excited when he fell to the 49ers but he seems to worry about his stats more than the success of the team and even then he's failing. All I'm gonna say is there is no way Harbaugh will baby him like Singletary did and Crabtree will have to prove his worth.

how do u know he has trouble running routes ?

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Lord Megatron atleast works with his QB and practices. Crabs doesnt. with CJ it really doesnt matter who the QB is, he did it with 3 or 4 different QBs last year and was still among the best in the legue. dude would of made shaun hill a probowler if he didnt get hurt. Crabs was responsible for how many retarded INTs bouncing off his hands or making the wrong breaks? not just for alex but troy too. Crabs needs to learn as much as he can and practice with his teamates. even if people are saying practicing wrong could hurt them, atleast theyre all on the same page, even if it isnt run 100%. with this lockout it screws up a lot of things but timing is still the most important part of football, if the timing between a QB and receiver is off thats where problems occur.

Great post. To add to the end of it, we have all been guilty of seeing an INT from QB and WR and immediately blaming the QB. It looks like the pass is off target... but is it really? As a receiver, if you run a route too short or long, that ball will appear off target unless the QB has the luxury of time to adjust to the sloppy route.

In other words, sometimes what we see? Leads us to flat out poor conclusions and judgments.

Originally posted by TheNef77:

Gore is at full health but I have yet heard about he and VD going to these workouts. Why don't people get on their cases too?

Because neither of them have ever done a single thing to make a single person ever question their work ethics.

Seriously, is this even a real question?

Originally posted by susweel:
Mangini was right he's a diva.

What does mangini know? He ran himself out of New York and Cleveland.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
It's more disappointment than hate. You would think a young, top 10 selection would want to put every effort in to get better for himself and the team. I think we can clearly see that "every effort" is far from what Crabtree has displayed thus far.

So yeah... disappointment is totally justified here.

What do you mean? His rookie year he came in 6 games into the season and had the best rookie wr year. Last season his numbers were similar to Vernon Davis'. Not to mention that VD was a disappointment until after he got chewed out by singletary or do you guys seem to forget? People hated vernon when he was dropping the ball and showboating after like 2-3 yard gains then he had one good year then everybody loves him. And just by comparison, Roddy White didn't start to do anything until his 4th year in the league. So disappointment isn't really justified.