Postion Battles: WR and TE

It's far more likely that we just can't find capable wide receivers despite trying for 6 years than it is that our quarterback just isn't very good. It usually takes 7-10 years for a quarterback to emerge because it's so hard to find good receivers in this league. Can you name some good receivers in the NFL these days? I can hardly think of any.

One down, one to go.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One down, one to go.

You haven't addressed the point,those stats don't tell us how well the passes were thrown to said receiver...

Originally posted by Lockout:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One down, one to go.

You haven't addressed the point,those stats don't tell us how well the passes were thrown to said receiver...

Sorry, thought you were just throwing gas around to see if you could start a fire.

My observation of Crabtree this year was that he stopped his routes, bounced balls off his hands, and otherwise did not seem as engaged as he did in his rookie year or in college. I found it exasperating because he is capable of being a first rate player. He has (had?) the rep for being a good worker and a dedicated player.

I made no reference to a specific QB as my comment was about Crabtree. He had more balls thrown his way than any other player on the team, but had a terrible rapport with Smith. You can say that Smith is not accurate but he seemed able to connect with VD and Morgan, all over the field, long and short. I often felt that Crabtree was intentionally shirking for some reason...perhaps I am too suspicious of player politics when I see some players sitting next to one QB and others always sitting with another. Saw the same thing with Montana and Young long ago and believe Singletary let the same thing happen last year.

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Mar 15, 2011 at 00:32:26 ]

Originally posted by Lockout:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One down, one to go.

You haven't addressed the point,those stats don't tell us how well the passes were thrown to said receiver...

That's because the passes to Crabtree were all crap where every other receiver wasn't. Speaks more of the receiver than the QB.

We have enough talent at the WR/TE positions to be a top flight offense. Unfortunately, we had Alex Smith at QB last year. Hopefully things change with our next QB, whoever that is (and I'm positive it won't be Alex).

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by Lockout:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One down, one to go.

You haven't addressed the point,those stats don't tell us how well the passes were thrown to said receiver...

That's because the passes to Crabtree were all crap where every other receiver wasn't. Speaks more of the receiver than the QB.

From the reactions after the play was over, it looked like Alex Smith was always angry that Crabtree was out of position. Yes, a few times he overthrew or threw behind him, but a lot of the time it looked like Crabtree ran a lazy route or just didn't fight for the ball, much less shield it from the DBs. Contrast that with Vernon, who looks motivated and fights for the ball. Chemistry needs to go both ways, and Crabtree simply looks like he's dogging it on a lot of plays.

Originally posted by Psinex:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by Lockout:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One down, one to go.

You haven't addressed the point,those stats don't tell us how well the passes were thrown to said receiver...

That's because the passes to Crabtree were all crap where every other receiver wasn't. Speaks more of the receiver than the QB.

From the reactions after the play was over, it looked like Alex Smith was always angry that Crabtree was out of position. Yes, a few times he overthrew or threw behind him, but a lot of the time it looked like Crabtree ran a lazy route or just didn't fight for the ball, much less shield it from the DBs. Contrast that with Vernon, who looks motivated and fights for the ball. Chemistry needs to go both ways, and Crabtree simply looks like he's dogging it on a lot of plays.

Not to mention that Crabtree was the only receiver that struggled to that extent last year. The rest of the receivers did pretty well (when they tried)

PTulini--thanks again for the data! It's really interesting and I wonder why sports writers don't do this more throughout the year? The funny thing is that I'm sure good coaches track these stats and use them to inspire players...as in, "Why can't you catch his passes but you can catch others?" Goes both ways with the Smiths but Carr stands alone...and he's the one we kept!

Originally posted by DuhWinning:
It's far more likely that we just can't find capable wide receivers despite trying for 6 years than it is that our quarterback just isn't very good. It usually takes 7-10 years for a quarterback to emerge because it's so hard to find good receivers in this league. Can you name some good receivers in the NFL these days? I can hardly think of any.

1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Desean Jackson
4. Greg Jennings
5. Steve smith (car)
6. Steve smith (ny)
7. Hakeem Nicks
8. Mike wallace
9. Calvin Johnson
10. Vincent Jackson
11. Sidney Rice
12. Brandon Marshall
13. Brandon Lloyd
14. Mike Williams (TB)
15. Santonio holmes
16. Steve Johnson
17. Reggie Wayne
18. Roddie White
19. Pierre Garcon
20. Wes Welker
21. Marques Colston
22. Jeremy Maclin
23. Dwayne Bowe
24. Anquan Boldin
25.Chad Johnson

not in any order and might be some missing. Wideouts aren't that hard to find. I blame it on Qb play and coaching

Crabtree- Move him to his natural flanker position on the right side
Morgan- Move him back to his old position as split end

Sign or Draft a #3 (peferably a big split end type)

Williams- Slot Reciever/Return Specialist

Ginn- Return Specialist only, Potential cut if Williams steps up

Zeigler- Not sure how bad that knee injury was, but if he can come back healthy
and Williams takes job from Ginn, I could see Ziggy make it as the 5th WR
Adding about 15 or 20 lbs wouldnt hurt either

Tight Ends- Vern, Walker, Byham, Solid group of guys, all should do well in 2011

[ Edited by cools on Mar 15, 2011 at 09:18:51 ]

Originally posted by Lockout:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One down, one to go.

You haven't addressed the point,those stats don't tell us how well the passes were thrown to said receiver...

I watched only a few games live the past season (somehow I was scheduled to work on those game days.) The game against Seattle was on Crabtree, IMO. He fell down on the first timing pass, and ran the wrong route on another one.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Interesting article and confirms some thoughts about Crabtree (causing interceptions), VD (being very good), and Ginn (being very bad).

Talk about a QB and a WR not being on the same page! For such a good receiver, Crabtree was pretty ineffective. 8 ints!

Take Crabtree and Ginn out of the mix and QB ratings were pretty decent. Crabtree had more passes thrown his way than any other receiver, can't imagine why!

Coincidentally, the reason he had more passes thrown his way is the same reason 8 INTs occurred when going his way: they forced the ball to him. Alex Smith can never seem to place the ball in a decent spot (I'm obviously exaggerating when I say "never") when throwing to Crabtree. I noticed this in 2009 and it didn't change in 2010. Crabtree is always having to stretch out to make his catches. It may be that Crabtree isn't where he is supposed to be, but to the naked eye, the passes just look off-target. Hopefully that gets worked out.

Originally posted by DuhWinning:
It's far more likely that we just can't find capable wide receivers despite trying for 6 years than it is that our quarterback just isn't very good. It usually takes 7-10 years for a quarterback to emerge because it's so hard to find good receivers in this league. Can you name some good receivers in the NFL these days? I can hardly think of any.

LOL

This post is definitely full of WIN. Charlie would be proud.

[ Edited by 49erRider on Mar 15, 2011 at 22:30:48 ]

Looking over the stats from the first post, as bad as Crabtree was with A Smith, Morgan was even worse with Troy Smith.

QB Ratings: Average of the high and low in parenthesis (just for fun)
Troy Smith with Crabtree--97.3 and Morgan--48.1 (72.7)
A Smith with Crabtree--55.4 and Morgan--103.6 (79.5)

Other receivers were not nearly as disparate.

If we could have had AS throw only to Morgan and TS only to Crabtree...imagine!