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Jim Harbaugh Thread

Originally posted by TyCore:
Courtesy of ESPN:

Passing yards per game

2013: 32/32 (so far)
2012: 23/32
2011: 29/32

just for comparison sake, 3 years before Roman:

2010: 18/32
2009: 22/32
2008: 13/32

exactly. people will put it all on kap but the things that are wrong with the offense have been wrong with it from the beginning. the difference is with smith they knew he couldn't throw it deep so everything was short and check down and quick which yielded high results

what i don't understand is, since that worked why didn't we keep doing that? we still have yac wr's why didn't we continue this and then take our shots deep with vernon etc that type of passing offense wouldn't be able to be stopped especially with a qb like kap

but no

because he has a cannon we only run deep routes that's it.

the coaching staff offensively in the passing game is a complete joke
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by crabman82:
in anytime of turmoil fans always point to obscure things that have happened in order to provide some perspective. cam cameron becoming the ravens OC and them winning the sb is the new version of pointing out how some recent sb champs entered the playoffs as a wild card team. statistics indicate you wont win the sb after firing an OC and you have a hell of a lot harder time winning the sb as a wild card team needing multiple road playoff wins.

Yet the last 3 Superbowl winner's all made it in as wild-card teams.

the giants won their division in 2011, as did the ravens in 2012.

no love for proving you wrong? lol its ok, i'll pat myself on the back.
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by crabman82:
in anytime of turmoil fans always point to obscure things that have happened in order to provide some perspective. cam cameron becoming the ravens OC and them winning the sb is the new version of pointing out how some recent sb champs entered the playoffs as a wild card team. statistics indicate you wont win the sb after firing an OC and you have a hell of a lot harder time winning the sb as a wild card team needing multiple road playoff wins.

Yet the last 3 Superbowl winner's all made it in as wild-card teams.

the giants won their division in 2011, as did the ravens in 2012.

no love for proving you wrong? lol its ok, i'll pat myself on the back.

  • 4ML
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Before the problem was Alex Smith, now its Colin Kaepernick, put another QB in there and it will be his problem.....its like people aren't putting 2 and 2 together. The common denominator for this offense's struggles has always been the playcalling. Why is it that Alex was tremendous in the red-zone, one of the very best in the NFL, yet Roman shows up and now this team struggles immensely in the redzone. Back when they were chitty, they were still able to capitalize in the redzone but all of a sudden all they could do was kick field goals. It amazes me that people never put that together and wonder why that it is and why this team continues to struggle in the redzone, regardless of who is playing QB.

I don't care who is calling plays...but when your OL is gettin' abused by 4 man rush - you aren't going to be successful passing the ball. When your QB is not taking what the defense is giving him...(does he even look at his check-downs?) then you can't really put all the blame on the coaching staff.

Coaching staff is not blameless...but you can't gloss over the poor execution by the players on offense.
Originally posted by 4ML:
I don't care who is calling plays...but when your OL is gettin' abused by 4 man rush - you aren't going to be successful passing the ball. When your QB is not taking what the defense is giving him...(does he even look at his check-downs?) then you can't really put all the blame on the coaching staff.

Coaching staff is not blameless...but you can't gloss over the poor execution by the players on offense.

where were the check downs? i recall only a couple and he dumped it off to gore on one of them...

if your offense is getting abused by 4 man rush STOP CALLING 7 STEP DROPS if they are getting abused going backwards then HAVE THEM GO FORWARD we were running at will against the #2 rush defense. just off of meeting a challenge and pride that the coaches love to say but don't actually back up we should have ran the panthers into the ground. and totally destroyed their confidence in the run game. we were doing it with EASE and then we just played right into their hands once again.

another game LOST because the coaches were too scared to man up and go toe to toe with another team.

we ran the ball excellent against the colts and panthers and then didn't do it again with the same result. how many times do we have to do it before they get it?

if they can't stop something keep doing it. keep running that opens the play action and stops them from blitzing almost every down like they did yesterday.

we can't be smarter than the people making hundreds of thousands of dollars can we? how can we see this and they can't?
  • 4ML
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,784
Originally posted by TyCore:
Courtesy of ESPN:

Passing yards per game

2013: 32/32 (so far)
2012: 23/32
2011: 29/32

just for comparison sake, 3 years before Roman:

2010: 18/32
2009: 22/32
2008: 13/32

2013: 6-3
2012: Super Bowl
2011: Conf. Finals



Coaches aren't the problem here. Yes, they can be better...but players are more responsible.
Originally posted by 4ML:
2013: 6-3
2012: Super Bowl
2011: Conf. Finals



Coaches aren't the problem here. Yes, they can be better...but players are more responsible.

they are. how aren't they the problem when the only constant through the years is them?
we would have a ring if they had sense enough to run the ball from the 5 yard line in the super bowl. you cannot convince me that gore wouldn't have gotten 5 yards on 3 tries....and you know this is true.
  • 4ML
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  • Posts: 26,784
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
where were the check downs? i recall only a couple and he dumped it off to gore on one of them...

if your offense is getting abused by 4 man rush STOP CALLING 7 STEP DROPS if they are getting abused going backwards then HAVE THEM GO FORWARD we were running at will against the #2 rush defense. just off of meeting a challenge and pride that the coaches love to say but don't actually back up we should have ran the panthers into the ground. and totally destroyed their confidence in the run game. we were doing it with EASE and then we just played right into their hands once again.

another game LOST because the coaches were too scared to man up and go toe to toe with another team.

we ran the ball excellent against the colts and panthers and then didn't do it again with the same result. how many times do we have to do it before they get it?

if they can't stop something keep doing it. keep running that opens the play action and stops them from blitzing almost every down like they did yesterday.

we can't be smarter than the people making hundreds of thousands of dollars can we? how can we see this and they can't?

I saw at least 4-5 check-downs that Kaep didn't even bother to look at during the game. You hit 3-4 check-downs and all of a sudden defense has to cover more ground and that opens up the long pass.

I do agree that we should have rushed more. Definitely. But...it was clear that Panthers made adjustments at the half-time to stop the run. But, we did get away from it and we should have stayed with it. Niners lost because they couldn't deal with 4-man rush of the Panthers. Several times we had 6 guys blocking for Kaep and we couldn't stop 4 guys. Kaep's strength is 7 step drop. I'm sorry...but as a coach - I expect 6 guys to block 4 guys. That left 7 guys in coverage with 5 to cover and that made Kaep's life difficult. Not to mention...he didn't use his check-downs properly.
  • 4ML
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,784
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Originally posted by 4ML:
2013: 6-3
2012: Super Bowl
2011: Conf. Finals



Coaches aren't the problem here. Yes, they can be better...but players are more responsible.

they are. how aren't they the problem when the only constant through the years is them?
we would have a ring if they had sense enough to run the ball from the 5 yard line in the super bowl. you cannot convince me that gore wouldn't have gotten 5 yards on 3 tries....and you know this is true.

I didn't say they were perfect. In fact, I said they can be better. We have reached conf. finals and SB in the two years since this coaching staff took over. Please tell me how they are the problem? Yes, we should have handed to Gore from the 5 yard line...but that's not why we lost the SB. When you're at the 5 yard line and you get 4 tries...you should score even if you pass 4 straight times. We lost because we didn't execute those plays.
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by TyCore:
Courtesy of ESPN:

Passing yards per game

2013: 32/32 (so far)
2012: 23/32
2011: 29/32

just for comparison sake, 3 years before Roman:

2010: 18/32
2009: 22/32
2008: 13/32

2013: 6-3
2012: Super Bowl
2011: Conf. Finals



Coaches aren't the problem here. Yes, they can be better...but players are more responsible.

I put "passing yards per game" because that's the extent of the statistics, draw what you will from them. I know pass yrd/game isn't the full extent of a teams worth, but it does put things into perspective. It worked for a couple years, but now it seems like EVERYONE knows what's coming, and/or have no problem getting mitts on our QB.

I'm pretty sure in the second half of 2012, we got a little boost in that category.
  • MarkD
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Good idea lets get a new O. Coordinator so Kap can throw the ball to........Wait wait who is he going to throw the ball to? The problem is we do not have healthy and good enough receivers that can get open to catch the ball. So how is a new Offensive coordinator or Harbaugh calling all the plays going to help.
Originally posted by 4ML:
I didn't say they were perfect. In fact, I said they can be better. We have reached conf. finals and SB in the two years since this coaching staff took over. Please tell me how they are the problem? Yes, we should have handed to Gore from the 5 yard line...but that's not why we lost the SB. When you're at the 5 yard line and you get 4 tries...you should score even if you pass 4 straight times. We lost because we didn't execute those plays.
we lost because they were the WRONG plays. every play wasn't even designed with the exception of the last one to have the target actually in the end zone.

run the ball is what got us down there in the first place.

punch it in. its what we did the last game against the falcons. the coaching choked.

the red zone has been an issue since day 1.

and continued up to yesterday.

3 years of sample size... same problems different personnel same coaches.
Adrian, thank you for answering 4ML's question about when being overpowered by a 4 man rush...you throw 1, 2 or 3 steppers. It should be "snap it and sling it". Unfortunately, it isn't. Here is a perspective I have noted a few times, and gotten lambasted for...but I still believe it.

Kap has a cannon. No doubt about that. But we all know that a cannon is worthless if you can't set it up, prime it and then pull the trigger. Well, that is our problem. Kap is being fed 5, 7 or sometimes 9 step drops, and he was covered up by the 4th step yesterday, yet good ole' roman kept sending in 7 steppers. It was as GM or NC pointed out elsewhere, as if roman wasn't even watching the results of the last play, which just got crunched because the OL couldn't block for any longer than a 3 step pass. In time that is 2-3 seconds. That's it. So what I see is JH and roman knowing kap has the big cannon, and when it comes to a pass, they think ,"Hell, kap has a cannon, so we throw a long pass...ie 5-7 stepper." They are both ignoring the fact that the best run blocking OL in football, doesn't pass block well for anything other than a 1-2 second , or a 2-3 step pass. In other words, kap has the big gun, so we go long, and so what if the DL is creaming our QB? Somehow, someway I suspect that is the problem, and JH just can't get past that. Boy, if he looks at this game film he sure will see it.

The other incredible screwup is that we have but one guy as a designated receiver on every pass play , and we run trickery to get that one guy open. Well, fine, but kap stares that ONE GUY down from the moment the ball is snapped. It is incredible that they don't have 3, 4 or even 5 guys as potential targets every pass play. I guess the answer to that one is that kap just isn't smart enough , or quick enough to go thru more than 3 progressions. If all passes were of the 1-3 step variety, we WOULD have someone who is open if play goes off that quick. But no, roman will NOT run quick hitters, nor will he not use every foot pound and ounce of kap's arm. And therein lies the problem. Two hardheaded guys, one the OC and the other the HC...and for some reason they don't understand why their qb can't throw a 5-7 stepper against elite teams, with the big pass rush. Amazing, just amazing.

Please, nobody tell me that JH can't call plays better than roman...because I just don't believe it. Roman is singlehandedly sinking coach Harbaugh's ship. JH needs to cut loose the baggage and see if he can resurrect his own team....which talentwise, should be playing way above the level of play we have seen to date.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Roman is calling plays in accordance with Harbaugh's offensive philosophy. Not sure if this is the solution, unless Harbaugh is better at calling the right plays in certain situations. But the overall scheme will not change.

This. Roman is the scapegoat, but Harbs has always had kind of an old school power run philosophy. Even though he was a QB. Harbs is comfortable playing relatively conservative. He is in on each playcall and I'm sure he can override a play.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Adrian, thank you for answering 4ML's question about when being overpowered by a 4 man rush...you throw 1, 2 or 3 steppers. It should be "snap it and sling it". Unfortunately, it isn't. Here is a perspective I have noted a few times, and gotten lambasted for...but I still believe it.

Kap has a cannon. No doubt about that. But we all know that a cannon is worthless if you can't set it up, prime it and then pull the trigger. Well, that is our problem. Kap is being fed 5, 7 or sometimes 9 step drops, and he was covered up by the 4th step yesterday, yet good ole' roman kept sending in 7 steppers. It was as GM or NC pointed out elsewhere, as if roman wasn't even watching the results of the last play, which just got crunched because the OL couldn't block for any longer than a 3 step pass. In time that is 2-3 seconds. That's it. So what I see is JH and roman knowing kap has the big cannon, and when it comes to a pass, they think ,"Hell, kap has a cannon, so we throw a long pass...ie 5-7 stepper." They are both ignoring the fact that the best run blocking OL in football, doesn't pass block well for anything other than a 1-2 second , or a 2-3 step pass. In other words, kap has the big gun, so we go long, and so what if the DL is creaming our QB? Somehow, someway I suspect that is the problem, and JH just can't get past that. Boy, if he looks at this game film he sure will see it.

The other incredible screwup is that we have but one guy as a designated receiver on every pass play , and we run trickery to get that one guy open. Well, fine, but kap stares that ONE GUY down from the moment the ball is snapped. It is incredible that they don't have 3, 4 or even 5 guys as potential targets every pass play. I guess the answer to that one is that kap just isn't smart enough , or quick enough to go thru more than 3 progressions. If all passes were of the 1-3 step variety, we WOULD have someone who is open if play goes off that quick. But no, roman will NOT run quick hitters, nor will he not use every foot pound and ounce of kap's arm. And therein lies the problem. Two hardheaded guys, one the OC and the other the HC...and for some reason they don't understand why their qb can't throw a 5-7 stepper against elite teams, with the big pass rush. Amazing, just amazing.

Please, nobody tell me that JH can't call plays better than roman...because I just don't believe it. Roman is singlehandedly sinking coach Harbaugh's ship. JH needs to cut loose the baggage and see if he can resurrect his own team....which talentwise, should be playing way above the level of play we have seen to date.

I put this in another thread.... and I hope I'm dead wrong.... but when the coach says that they had to scroll the playbook back for you, this isn't a good sign

This is exactly like the movie GROUNDHOGS DAY..... same ol sorry ass script... we have a very poor PRO PASS OFFENSE...

the reasons for that are many, I'm sure, but when Kaep keeps giving the same post-game speech --- ITS US, NOT THEM, THEY DIDN"T DO ANYTHING, this just screams nonsense. The Seacocks punched us in the face... the colts punched us in the face, the panthers punched us in the face. When will we actually give them credit for stopping our high school offense?
[ Edited by Big_Daddy on Nov 11, 2013 at 1:23 PM ]
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