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Alex Smith the starter next year?

Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
You say Smith is on the bottom of every statistical category and that Palmer
is better, yet Palmer had a lower qb rating than Smith this year? Make sense much?

Smith stans? Really? WTF does that even mean?

even kolb isnt much better and he has better coaching and the better team and orton led what a 2 win team

Kolb has never had the opportunity to play in a bunch of games in a row. A QB needs to do that to get in a rythym and get in his groove. Can't expect a QB to develop and grow if he only plays 5 games a year, and that too, not consecutively. I'm still a bit iffy on Kolb, but I think he has potential to be much much better than Alex.

Orton won 3 games this year while the Broncos won 4. His 3 wins are the same amount as the games that Alex won this year.
In talking Kolb or Orton, here is your choice:

Who would you rather have, a stud pass rushing OLB like Von Miller, OR Kevin Kolb?

Or would you rather have Kyle Orton or prototype CB Prince Amukamara?

That is what you need to consider when you talk about trading. Neither Orton nor Kolb will get traded for less than a #1 round pick this year...and that means the #7 OVERALL. Do you really think EITHER of those guys is worth the #7 overall pick?

No one has said that Orton will be worth a 1st.

Stop making stuff up.
Yes, there have been several NFL observers that have noted the dire lack of quality QBs around the league and observed that the bidding for Orton will start with a low 2nd and wind up with a #1. It is well accepted that Kolb, who has played very little, will bring a #1 if Philly really agrees to move him. If they get it, that moves Orton into the "next" spot and the bidding will immediately go up.

But back to my question: would you rather have Kolb than Amukamara or Miller?

I think that Orton could be had for a 2nd. You're just pointing out speculation, not facts. We'll see, though.

I would not trade a 1st for either one of those guys, though. So yes, I would rather have a Peterson/Prince/Quinn/Miller at #7.

Now, I have a question for you. Would you like to have Kolb or Orton for a 2nd?
Orton, not Kolb, but only if we could trade back to the end of the 2nd round and use that pick for the trade.
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by excelsior:
The common attitude that I get from most Alex critics is to get rid of him and get someone better. That sounds so simple on the surface. But it bespeaks a failure to appreciate how difficult it is to play QB in the NFL. It is the most difficult position to play and that is why there are so few really good ones.

Consider all of the QBs starting for about 200 major college teams. We have about 80 QBs on 32 NFL rosters. Assuming a 10 year career span, that is only 8 QB rookies going into the NFL each year. Yet, of the 32 teams, there are probably 10 that you would call "elite," the kind a 49er fan demands guide his team in the years to come. On average, that represents only 1 QB coming out of college each year. There may be a few more on rosters that someday will be considered "elite" but history suggests that it isn't many.

Some claim Alex is the worst QB in the NFL, which is a laughable claim. Others, however, complain that he is only average, which he may be, but some teams would love to have just an average QB at the moment.

Some demand that we trade for Kolb, Orton, Palmer, etc. But do not forget that there a at least 10 other teams looking to upgrade their QB and the competition for these guys will be intense and their price will be inflated.

The upshot of this discussion is that I think Harbaugh realizes this as well as any; after all he struggled to be a quality QB himself. He knows that most teams must find a way to win with a QB who is not elite.

Harbaugh probably realizes that Alex is the best available for the moment. It is not certain that Orton, Kolb, Palmer are better than him, and they will cost in valuable draft choices will be excessive, while Alex will not cost them any d/c. So until his critics can point out a truly intelligent alternative path, they should hold their tongues.

Love reading your posts...great study breaks, great comic relief. Keep it up

Lol. I agree. Some of this stuff cannot be taken seriously, man.

I know some of his stuff is really homeristic at times, but that was actually a really good realistic post excel made there. I'm not sure why you guys are laughing.

They are laughing because they do not comprehend team sports, it was a good post and made a valid point, they have no answer for it, so they ridicule like the ridiculous posters they are. They themselves are the ones that should not be taken seriously.


Originally posted by excelsior:
Thanks Memphis and San Diego. You can tell when your point has scored. It is when your adversaries have nothing to fall back on but ridicule.

Exactly! If I didn't agree with you, i'd tell you why. Not just post not-very-clever one-liners or emoticons. In other words, you win. lol
I don't think my TV can take another year of Alex Smith...



Seriously though, if Alex starts, there is no way I'm renewing my NFL Sunday ticket. I'm sick of paying so much to watch our team lose year after year...
Originally posted by D_Niner:
I don't think my TV can take another year of Alex Smith...



Seriously though, if Alex starts, there is no way I'm renewing my NFL Sunday ticket. I'm sick of paying so much to watch our team lose year after year...

Exactly. It's just better to move on and start over. However, if the CBA doesn't get resolved, then I obviously want him back. But if there is a FA period in the next couple months, I'd like the team to look outside the roster for our QB.
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by GBNinerFan:
Originally posted by excelsior:
Thanks Memphis and San Diego. You can tell when your point has scored. It is when your adversaries have nothing to fall back on but ridicule.

Exactly! If I didn't agree with you, i'd tell you why. Not just post not-very-clever one-liners or emoticons. In other words, you win. lol

Interesting. Here I thought the basis behind all our posts was to find the BEST player that could help the team win. Its a shame that you guys have become Alex fans first, and Niner fans second.

If Alex ends up in a Niner uniform in 2011, it will be because the CBA (lack of) prevented us from getting someone better. Let me repeat, because this may be hard for you to understand. It's not that Alex is better than the average schmoe out there; its that we are PREVENTED from getting rid of him, since we have no one else on the roster.

That doesnt sound like the making of a SB champion to me....apparently it does to you................hence, the claim that you guys are Alex fans first, and Niner fans second. The acceptance of mediocrity has become a norm in Ninerland. It has a lot to do with fans like you.

But hey........it's all good, cause like you said..........excel "wins". Congrats.
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
I don't think my TV can take another year of Alex Smith...



Seriously though, if Alex starts, there is no way I'm renewing my NFL Sunday ticket. I'm sick of paying so much to watch our team lose year after year...

Exactly. It's just better to move on and start over. However, if the CBA doesn't get resolved, then I obviously want him back. But if there is a FA period in the next couple months, I'd like the team to look outside the roster for our QB.

I just don't think he's a good fit for the WCO and would rather see any QB with an upside get the reps or a vet that already knows the system start. Most of us know Alex isn't the answer. If we brought him back, it would be for only one season; and we all know how well Alex does in his first, or even second, season of a new system.

There are always a few, on the decline, veteran QBs available each year. I'm sure we could find a much better stopgap WCO QB as we develop a rookie for the future...
[ Edited by D_Niner on Feb 17, 2011 at 7:53 AM ]
  • pd24
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,034
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.

Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.
The lack of a CBA has been talked about for over a year and teams knew it was coming.
Yet Sing chose to stupidly cut a very competent QB for the moronic reason of giving Alex a warm fuzzy. Harbaugh is only working with what he has and it makes total sense. Sing's legacy continues to really hurt the team.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
I don't think my TV can take another year of Alex Smith...



Seriously though, if Alex starts, there is no way I'm renewing my NFL Sunday ticket. I'm sick of paying so much to watch our team lose year after year...

Exactly. It's just better to move on and start over. However, if the CBA doesn't get resolved, then I obviously want him back. But if there is a FA period in the next couple months, I'd like the team to look outside the roster for our QB.

I just don't think he's a good fit for the WCO and would rather see any QB with an upside get the reps or a vet that already knows the system start. Most of us know Alex isn't the answer. If we brought him back, it would be for only one season; and we all know how well Alex does in his first, or even second, season of a new system.

There are always a few, on the decline, veteran QBs available each year. I'm sure we could find a much better stopgap WCO QB as we develop a rookie for the future...
Who? What would they cost?

We've been through this examination ad nauseum and there are just no reasonable options out there. Without sacrificing a 1st round draft pick, or at the very best, the #45 overall pick (2nd round) there just aren't any decent QBs available.

Does anyone really think Carson Palmer is worth either of those picks? Orton? Kolb?

Johnson might be available, but at what price?

??????
The key is competition. Singletary's approach was bizarre at best, just nuts really, and not in a good way.

Smith still hanging around, hoping to please yet another coach, to prove his worth to this organization and the fan base...this is not a good or healthy thing at all. Kind of weird and pathetic really. He needs to move on. Most players do, in any pro sport.
Ryen Russillo just said he thinks Alex Smith can still be a starting QB.
It came up because they were talking about Cam Newton and he said he thinks Cam will be like Alex where in 5 years you still dont know what you have.

Just saying.
Well i dont think it really matters all that much. The QB's that Harbaugh was able to get the best out of seemed like they really sucked before him. Then, whether one year or more, each improved drastically. Even gave those individuals Draft potential because of their success under him.

So I look at Alex the same way.

If anyone read my posts for this year, and years prior, one main sentence has been constant. Even when arguing with others and thats, " Give me a coach, that knows how to adjust on a whim if all things fall apart. And a coach that CAN get the best potential out of every player on the field. Only then can you really see how good or bad a player can be.".

So I not only relate that to Alex, but to the WR's, O-line, defense, etc. I havent closed the door on any player on our team because I'm not sure if every player has been in position for their talents or lack there of to be maximized.

If a person says that a kid has the potential to be great, you wont ever know until he's given the right oppourtunity to do so. With a supporting cast that knows how to put him in the right spot, to see if he will make the correct or wrong decision.

I dont care if it's Martz's offense, the WCO, or any other offense. A good/great coach as Harbaugh said, knows how to get the best out of every player on the team.

We finally have that in coach. So let me see what any player on our squad, even Alex can do with a coach that has those talents to maximize all 53 players on the roster's full potential.

We havent had an offensive minded HC in almost 8 years. Now that we do, lets not jump quickly either way, and see what happens.

All this talk of Smith returning, when we dont know anything yet.
Originally posted by pd24:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.

Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.

Mind = blown

Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.

Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.

Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.