Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

If this were tennis and Smith kept losing to better players, the nay-sayers would have a point with the "excuse" lines. But on a team sport, fans should try to look at the whole picture, as DJ pointed out, and see play in context of the game. Bad coaching is not an "excuse" for a player falling short, it is a reason.

When during the past six years did you feel that the coaching and overall play of the team was really excellent? Isn't that what you are saying when you blame one position for all the failure? If Walsh were the coach the past six years Smith would either be a very good QB or would be on another team. But we don't know which because we have had team chaos during this time.

Excuses are usually defined as poor explanations or reasons, but many on this board have pointed out relevant eye witness accounts and stats that they believe demonstrate mitigating circumstances for Smith's average play and, in fact, point to very good play at times. While some of the naysayers admit this, others reply with pithy comments such as "Alex sucks." While this type of dialogue may get some anger out of your system, it doesn't further the argument.

Other's answer to Smith's success in the red zone by saying he doesn't get there often enough. Yet when it is demonstrated that he gets there slightly less than Manning and Brady, the argument shifts to some other criticism. Why not just admit that the red zone is one of Smith's strengths? Because that would mean admitting that Smith has some ability and blanket statements of condemnation will not work.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If this were tennis and Smith kept losing to better players, the nay-sayers would have a point with the "excuse" lines. But on a team sport, fans should try to look at the whole picture, as DJ pointed out, and see play in context of the game. Bad coaching is not an "excuse" for a player falling short, it is a reason.

When during the past six years did you feel that the coaching and overall play of the team was really excellent? Isn't that what you are saying when you blame one position for all the failure? If Walsh were the coach the past six years Smith would either be a very good QB or would be on another team. But we don't know which because we have had team chaos during this time.

Excuses are usually defined as poor explanations or reasons, but many on this board have pointed out relevant eye witness accounts and stats that they believe demonstrate mitigating circumstances for Smith's average play and, in fact, point to very good play at times. While some of the naysayers admit this, others reply with pithy comments such as "Alex sucks." While this type of dialogue may get some anger out of your system, it doesn't further the argument.

Other's answer to Smith's success in the red zone by saying he doesn't get there often enough. Yet when it is demonstrated that he gets there slightly less than Manning and Brady, the argument shifts to some other criticism. Why not just admit that the red zone is one of Smith's strengths? Because that would mean admitting that Smith has some ability and blanket statements of condemnation will not work.

Well said brotha.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If this were tennis and Smith kept losing to better players, the nay-sayers would have a point with the "excuse" lines. But on a team sport, fans should try to look at the whole picture, as DJ pointed out, and see play in context of the game. Bad coaching is not an "excuse" for a player falling short, it is a reason.

When during the past six years did you feel that the coaching and overall play of the team was really excellent? Isn't that what you are saying when you blame one position for all the failure? If Walsh were the coach the past six years Smith would either be a very good QB or would be on another team. But we don't know which because we have had team chaos during this time.

Excuses are usually defined as poor explanations or reasons, but many on this board have pointed out relevant eye witness accounts and stats that they believe demonstrate mitigating circumstances for Smith's average play and, in fact, point to very good play at times. While some of the naysayers admit this, others reply with pithy comments such as "Alex sucks." While this type of dialogue may get some anger out of your system, it doesn't further the argument.

Other's answer to Smith's success in the red zone by saying he doesn't get there often enough. Yet when it is demonstrated that he gets there slightly less than Manning and Brady, the argument shifts to some other criticism. Why not just admit that the red zone is one of Smith's strengths? Because that would mean admitting that Smith has some ability and blanket statements of condemnation will not work.

Anyone can look good in the red zone when thier playing from behind and the other team not playing as hard... Not only that,but look at the bigger picture.. How many times have we gone 3 and out under Alex watch? How many times has the D played great only to see a guy under center throw 2 yard passes to Gore and then sit on the bench?

Originally posted by fakers23:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If this were tennis and Smith kept losing to better players, the nay-sayers would have a point with the "excuse" lines. But on a team sport, fans should try to look at the whole picture, as DJ pointed out, and see play in context of the game. Bad coaching is not an "excuse" for a player falling short, it is a reason.

When during the past six years did you feel that the coaching and overall play of the team was really excellent? Isn't that what you are saying when you blame one position for all the failure? If Walsh were the coach the past six years Smith would either be a very good QB or would be on another team. But we don't know which because we have had team chaos during this time.

Excuses are usually defined as poor explanations or reasons, but many on this board have pointed out relevant eye witness accounts and stats that they believe demonstrate mitigating circumstances for Smith's average play and, in fact, point to very good play at times. While some of the naysayers admit this, others reply with pithy comments such as "Alex sucks." While this type of dialogue may get some anger out of your system, it doesn't further the argument.

Other's answer to Smith's success in the red zone by saying he doesn't get there often enough. Yet when it is demonstrated that he gets there slightly less than Manning and Brady, the argument shifts to some other criticism. Why not just admit that the red zone is one of Smith's strengths? Because that would mean admitting that Smith has some ability and blanket statements of condemnation will not work.

Anyone can look good in the red zone when thier playing from behind and the other team not playing as hard... Not only that,but look at the bigger picture.. How many times have we gone 3 and out under Alex watch? How many times has the D played great only to see a guy under center throw 2 yard passes to Gore and then sit on the bench?

Teams give up in the red zone? I have not noticed that. Usually teams play hard in the red zone no matter the score. And...which games were blow outs where Smith had carte blanch to throw TDs? Would you please point them out to me?

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Whatever man. I get where you're coming from, but usually, players who suck, just suck. That's that. But for some odd reason, Alex Smith, who sucks, is excused for his suckishness.

It's okay man. Bring on Alexcuse #563

I also watch Smith in games and have been frustrated when he misses on a pass that he should complete. That frustration has been heightened by so many other shortcomings on this team the past 8 years. That doesn't excuse a missed pass when the receiver DID run the correct route on time, however, in my observation, the failure to connect on passes has been the result of a receiver not doing what they should more often than Smith just simply missing.

A different question for you: What is your opinion of the OL play on pass protection?

Do they create clear passing lanes on timing plays? Do they cut pass rushers on slants? Do they consistently provide 3+ seconds on pass protection?

What is your opinion of Vernon Davis in response to X blitzes (where the inside LBs cross blitz through the guard spots)?

I'll just leave it there...

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Whatever man. I get where you're coming from, but usually, players who suck, just suck. That's that. But for some odd reason, Alex Smith, who sucks, is excused for his suckishness.

It's okay man. Bring on Alexcuse #563

I also watch Smith in games and have been frustrated when he misses on a pass that he should complete. That frustration has been heightened by so many other shortcomings on this team the past 8 years. That doesn't excuse a missed pass when the receiver DID run the correct route on time, however, in my observation, the failure to connect on passes has been the result of a receiver not doing what they should more often than Smith just simply missing.

A different question for you: What is your opinion of the OL play on pass protection?

Do they create clear passing lanes on timing plays? Do they cut pass rushers on slants? Do they consistently provide 3+ seconds on pass protection?

What is your opinion of Vernon Davis in response to X blitzes (where the inside LBs cross blitz through the guard spots)?

I'll just leave it there...

I've seen more passes where it was Alex's fault, instead of it being the receiver's fault. Just b/c you think the other way around doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Whatever man. I get where you're coming from, but usually, players who suck, just suck. That's that. But for some odd reason, Alex Smith, who sucks, is excused for his suckishness.

It's okay man. Bring on Alexcuse #563

I also watch Smith in games and have been frustrated when he misses on a pass that he should complete. That frustration has been heightened by so many other shortcomings on this team the past 8 years. That doesn't excuse a missed pass when the receiver DID run the correct route on time, however, in my observation, the failure to connect on passes has been the result of a receiver not doing what they should more often than Smith just simply missing.

A different question for you: What is your opinion of the OL play on pass protection?

Do they create clear passing lanes on timing plays? Do they cut pass rushers on slants? Do they consistently provide 3+ seconds on pass protection?

What is your opinion of Vernon Davis in response to X blitzes (where the inside LBs cross blitz through the guard spots)?

I'll just leave it there...

I've seen more passes where it was Alex's fault, instead of it being the receiver's fault. Just b/c you think the other way around doesn't make it true.

Darn! I thought for sure the questions were going to be answered!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Whatever man. I get where you're coming from, but usually, players who suck, just suck. That's that. But for some odd reason, Alex Smith, who sucks, is excused for his suckishness.

It's okay man. Bring on Alexcuse #563

I also watch Smith in games and have been frustrated when he misses on a pass that he should complete. That frustration has been heightened by so many other shortcomings on this team the past 8 years. That doesn't excuse a missed pass when the receiver DID run the correct route on time, however, in my observation, the failure to connect on passes has been the result of a receiver not doing what they should more often than Smith just simply missing.

A different question for you: What is your opinion of the OL play on pass protection?

Do they create clear passing lanes on timing plays? Do they cut pass rushers on slants? Do they consistently provide 3+ seconds on pass protection?

What is your opinion of Vernon Davis in response to X blitzes (where the inside LBs cross blitz through the guard spots)?

I'll just leave it there...

I've seen more passes where it was Alex's fault, instead of it being the receiver's fault. Just b/c you think the other way around doesn't make it true.

Darn! I thought for sure the questions were going to be answered!

I'm tired of answering all these pointless questions of yours, especially if any question I ask to you guys regarding Alex's bad play is ALWAYS ignored.

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Whatever man. I get where you're coming from, but usually, players who suck, just suck. That's that. But for some odd reason, Alex Smith, who sucks, is excused for his suckishness.

It's okay man. Bring on Alexcuse #563

I also watch Smith in games and have been frustrated when he misses on a pass that he should complete. That frustration has been heightened by so many other shortcomings on this team the past 8 years. That doesn't excuse a missed pass when the receiver DID run the correct route on time, however, in my observation, the failure to connect on passes has been the result of a receiver not doing what they should more often than Smith just simply missing.

A different question for you: What is your opinion of the OL play on pass protection?

Do they create clear passing lanes on timing plays? Do they cut pass rushers on slants? Do they consistently provide 3+ seconds on pass protection?

What is your opinion of Vernon Davis in response to X blitzes (where the inside LBs cross blitz through the guard spots)?

I'll just leave it there...

I've seen more passes where it was Alex's fault, instead of it being the receiver's fault. Just b/c you think the other way around doesn't make it true.

Darn! I thought for sure the questions were going to be answered!

I'm tired of answering all these pointless questions of yours, especially if any question I ask to you guys regarding Alex's bad play is ALWAYS ignored.

Ignored? Or refuted? I apologize if I've ignored a serious response but am not aware that I did. Many of the questions/comments have been in the variety of "Alex sucks." Above you said, "Bring on Alexcuse #563." How does that address the argument in a constructive manner? It is purely a put down without giving any legitimate response to oposing posts.

We obviously disagree and that is fine, but to tell each other that their opinion is meaningless should be avoided. If I have done that, once again, my apologies.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Whatever man. I get where you're coming from, but usually, players who suck, just suck. That's that. But for some odd reason, Alex Smith, who sucks, is excused for his suckishness.

It's okay man. Bring on Alexcuse #563

I also watch Smith in games and have been frustrated when he misses on a pass that he should complete. That frustration has been heightened by so many other shortcomings on this team the past 8 years. That doesn't excuse a missed pass when the receiver DID run the correct route on time, however, in my observation, the failure to connect on passes has been the result of a receiver not doing what they should more often than Smith just simply missing.

A different question for you: What is your opinion of the OL play on pass protection?

Do they create clear passing lanes on timing plays? Do they cut pass rushers on slants? Do they consistently provide 3+ seconds on pass protection?

What is your opinion of Vernon Davis in response to X blitzes (where the inside LBs cross blitz through the guard spots)?

I'll just leave it there...

I've seen more passes where it was Alex's fault, instead of it being the receiver's fault. Just b/c you think the other way around doesn't make it true.

Darn! I thought for sure the questions were going to be answered!

I'm tired of answering all these pointless questions of yours, especially if any question I ask to you guys regarding Alex's bad play is ALWAYS ignored.

Ignored? Or refuted? I apologize if I've ignored a serious response but am not aware that I did. Many of the questions/comments have been in the variety of "Alex sucks." Above you said, "Bring on Alexcuse #563." How does that address the argument in a constructive manner? It is purely a put down without giving any legitimate response to oposing posts.

We obviously disagree and that is fine, but to tell each other that their opinion is meaningless should be avoided. If I have done that, once again, my apologies.

What is your opinion on Alex Smith's pocket presence, or at least in my opinion, lack of pocket presence?

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Whatever man. I get where you're coming from, but usually, players who suck, just suck. That's that. But for some odd reason, Alex Smith, who sucks, is excused for his suckishness.

It's okay man. Bring on Alexcuse #563

I also watch Smith in games and have been frustrated when he misses on a pass that he should complete. That frustration has been heightened by so many other shortcomings on this team the past 8 years. That doesn't excuse a missed pass when the receiver DID run the correct route on time, however, in my observation, the failure to connect on passes has been the result of a receiver not doing what they should more often than Smith just simply missing.

A different question for you: What is your opinion of the OL play on pass protection?

Do they create clear passing lanes on timing plays? Do they cut pass rushers on slants? Do they consistently provide 3+ seconds on pass protection?

What is your opinion of Vernon Davis in response to X blitzes (where the inside LBs cross blitz through the guard spots)?

I'll just leave it there...

I've seen more passes where it was Alex's fault, instead of it being the receiver's fault. Just b/c you think the other way around doesn't make it true.

I was rather hoping for a more analytical answer than that. One that would give me a greater insight into your overall observations about the team. I'm not interested in discussing a topic if have only observed a small portion of the topic material.

So be it...

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Whatever man. I get where you're coming from, but usually, players who suck, just suck. That's that. But for some odd reason, Alex Smith, who sucks, is excused for his suckishness.

It's okay man. Bring on Alexcuse #563

I also watch Smith in games and have been frustrated when he misses on a pass that he should complete. That frustration has been heightened by so many other shortcomings on this team the past 8 years. That doesn't excuse a missed pass when the receiver DID run the correct route on time, however, in my observation, the failure to connect on passes has been the result of a receiver not doing what they should more often than Smith just simply missing.

A different question for you: What is your opinion of the OL play on pass protection?

Do they create clear passing lanes on timing plays? Do they cut pass rushers on slants? Do they consistently provide 3+ seconds on pass protection?

What is your opinion of Vernon Davis in response to X blitzes (where the inside LBs cross blitz through the guard spots)?

I'll just leave it there...

I've seen more passes where it was Alex's fault, instead of it being the receiver's fault. Just b/c you think the other way around doesn't make it true.

Darn! I thought for sure the questions were going to be answered!

I'm tired of answering all these pointless questions of yours, especially if any question I ask to you guys regarding Alex's bad play is ALWAYS ignored.

Ignored? Or refuted? I apologize if I've ignored a serious response but am not aware that I did. Many of the questions/comments have been in the variety of "Alex sucks." Above you said, "Bring on Alexcuse #563." How does that address the argument in a constructive manner? It is purely a put down without giving any legitimate response to oposing posts.

We obviously disagree and that is fine, but to tell each other that their opinion is meaningless should be avoided. If I have done that, once again, my apologies.

What is your opinion on Alex Smith's pocket presence, or at least in my opinion, lack of pocket presence?

That is a very serious issue that I am waiting to see answered. Our line last year was terribly inconsistent and a QB needs to know what linemen are likely to do in various circumstances. Usually, the QB and line are very close to each other mentally, in sync. Haven't seen that with Smith so he may not have that skill.

Did he hold the ball too long at times? Yes, definately. Did he run into pressure at times rather than slide away from pressure? Yes. But, it is difficult to separate his preformance from a line with two rookies, a bad RG, a new center and Staley, who had an OK year when healthy. In the summer I mentioned my concerns in several threads and they came to pass (no pun intended!). I do not believe two rookies on the line, one of them a 20 year old, is an excuse but is a reason for some bad play--not all.

He had better presence years ago when they brought in vet linemen, so perhaps he can develop that with the line as they work together. Intangibles has always been my biggest concern with Smith and will be until he either succeeds or fails with a good team around him and good coaching.

Edit: By good team I do not mean all pros at every position but guys who have been coached to work together and who try to make each other better rather than looking for a scapegoat. VD and Gore impressed me last year by steping up and taking some blame for botched plays. I did not see that same maturity from Crabtree, A Davis, etc.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Whatever man. I get where you're coming from, but usually, players who suck, just suck. That's that. But for some odd reason, Alex Smith, who sucks, is excused for his suckishness.

It's okay man. Bring on Alexcuse #563

I also watch Smith in games and have been frustrated when he misses on a pass that he should complete. That frustration has been heightened by so many other shortcomings on this team the past 8 years. That doesn't excuse a missed pass when the receiver DID run the correct route on time, however, in my observation, the failure to connect on passes has been the result of a receiver not doing what they should more often than Smith just simply missing.

A different question for you: What is your opinion of the OL play on pass protection?

Do they create clear passing lanes on timing plays? Do they cut pass rushers on slants? Do they consistently provide 3+ seconds on pass protection?

What is your opinion of Vernon Davis in response to X blitzes (where the inside LBs cross blitz through the guard spots)?

I'll just leave it there...

I've seen more passes where it was Alex's fault, instead of it being the receiver's fault. Just b/c you think the other way around doesn't make it true.

Darn! I thought for sure the questions were going to be answered!

I'm tired of answering all these pointless questions of yours, especially if any question I ask to you guys regarding Alex's bad play is ALWAYS ignored.

Ignored? Or refuted? I apologize if I've ignored a serious response but am not aware that I did. Many of the questions/comments have been in the variety of "Alex sucks." Above you said, "Bring on Alexcuse #563." How does that address the argument in a constructive manner? It is purely a put down without giving any legitimate response to oposing posts.

We obviously disagree and that is fine, but to tell each other that their opinion is meaningless should be avoided. If I have done that, once again, my apologies.

What is your opinion on Alex Smith's pocket presence, or at least in my opinion, lack of pocket presence?

That is a very serious issue that I am waiting to see answered. Our line last year was terribly inconsistent and a QB needs to know what linemen are likely to do in various circumstances. Usually, the QB and line are very close to each other mentally, in sync. Haven't seen that with Smith so he may not have that skill.

Did he hold the ball too long at times? Yes, definately. Did he run into pressure at times rather than slide away from pressure? Yes. But, it is difficult to separate his preformance from a line with two rookies, a bad RG, a new center and Staley, who had an OK year when healthy. In the summer I mentioned my concerns in several threads and they came to pass (no pun intended!). I do not believe two rookies on the line, one of them a 20 year old, is an excuse but is a reason for some bad play--not all.

He had better presence years ago when they brought in vet linemen, so perhaps he can develop that with the line as they work together. Intangibles has always been my biggest concern with Smith and will be until he either succeeds or fails with a good team around him and good coaching.

Edit: By good team I do not mean all pros at every position but guys who have been coached to work together and who try to make each other better rather than looking for a scapegoat. VD and Gore impressed me last year by steping up and taking some blame for botched plays. I did not see that same maturity from Crabtree, A Davis, etc.

I've seen way too many times where there is a good pocket for Smith, and he will simply get 'happy feet' and dump it off to Gore. Plus, the thing that pisses me off the most are his 'roll out to the right, throw it out of bounds' plays. For example, if an extra blitzer comes free through the line at full speed coming straight at a QB, all he has to do is take a step to either the right or the left. The defender will rush by the QB and be taken completely out of the play. I've seen many good QBs do this, mostly Rodgers, Brees and of course Brady. Brady is not very mobile in the traditional sense of the word, but he has excellent pocket presence. I'll admit that Brady has a great line, but at times when he has pressure, he is so good at sidestepping a rusher.

My point is that I've NEVER EVER EVER EVER seen Alex do this in his time here. He simply does not have the instincts and intangibles needed for a QB. I don't really care if 'he doesn't trust his o-line', or if he has become physchologically scarred and his instinct is to fold under pressure. I don't care about that, because that can't be changed. Why have faith in a QB around if he doesn't have the natural instincts needed to succeed?

My bad, double post.

Originally posted by niner4life21:
My bad, double post.

Well, I do not see him fold under pressure. He has taken some big time hits this year and courage is not a factor as far as I am concerned. As far as rolling out and throwing the ball away, it is my opinion that this is coaching. He is being told--look for A or throw the ball away if option is not there. At Utah he rolled right and threw incredibly accurate passes down the field...even as he was being hit.

Nolan's idea of offense was, "Don't screw up." What a depressing coaching move. Typical defense guy talking about QBing. Singletary came in and said don't worry we are going to run the ball down their throats. When that did not happen, Smith was left to try and figure out plan B. When they went to the spread his play improved. When Johnson took over and started telling Smith to think pass first, he improved. That's the way I saw it.