Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

Originally posted by excelsior:
I found Wodwo's stats instructive. In fact, he did a lot of work, then seemed to belittle it, as if it didn't show anything meaningful. On the contrary, it showed a great deal.

If we ignore Alex's performances against SEA, NO and KC under Raye (who was fired because of poor playcalling) and just look at Alex's QB rating in all other games under Johnson, and compare it to the average QB ratings allowed by those opponents, we find that Alex performed ABOVE the average opponent QBs in 6 of the 8 games.

If Alex can be above average with Johnson as OC, then doesn't it stand to reason that he can be even better if Harbaugh's coaching and scheme are what we hired him for? And if the performance of the OL and receivers can also improve, then he should do better yet. Can we all agree with that?

I hope to god you are right....looks like we'll be spending another year with this nonsense....

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by excelsior:
I found Wodwo's stats instructive. In fact, he did a lot of work, then seemed to belittle it, as if it didn't show anything meaningful. On the contrary, it showed a great deal.

If we ignore Alex's performances against SEA, NO and KC under Raye (who was fired because of poor playcalling) and just look at Alex's QB rating in all other games under Johnson, and compare it to the average QB ratings allowed by those opponents, we find that Alex performed ABOVE the average opponent QBs in 6 of the 8 games.

If Alex can be above average with Johnson as OC, then doesn't it stand to reason that he can be even better if Harbaugh's coaching and scheme are what we hired him for? And if the performance of the OL and receivers can also improve, then he should do better yet. Can we all agree with that?

I hope to god you are right....looks like we'll be spending another year with this nonsense....

You can thank Jerry Richardson. Either way we're screwed pretty much. Hope Alex can finally do consistently well. Doesn't need to be great but if he can be above average we should be ok. If he doesn't play well with Harbaugh coaching I will seriously give up on him though. As of now I don't think he's even good but I still think he has it in him to be a decent QB in this league at some point of his career.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Is this the only place to talk about A. Smith?

I can only imagine why they would shut down the most popular thread on this forum.

Pointless arguments or not, its just good business to keep the official alex smith thread open...especially when our new coach is talking about retaining him...

I don't even come in niner talk more than once a week. No Alex smith threads is the reason why. So boring now

Originally posted by excelsior:
Okay guys, laugh it up, but the facts are the facts. Deal with them. The point being made is that Johnson was probably a better OC than Raye. When you look at Alex's play under Johnson, he not only playing better. he also played better on average than the other NFL QBs who played against those same teams.

I know that that is an uncomfortable stat for you, and if you choose to deflect its significance, then so be it. Perhaps your egos have become so invested in believing that Alex is a bad QB that you refuse to concede the possible significance of any numbers that suggest otherwise. This is what makes this excercise so entertaining and amusing.

A stretch there, he is only one point better 83-82. If you toss out the high and low it is an 82. It does show him to be better than I thought. Even though he had his best year statistically he was 3-8 in games he started.

It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

I don't get how you can say that Smith has played well many times and then other times he hasn't...as if his good play has far outweighed his bad play. He has been mostly poor with flashes of good play. My thing is I don't think he has the intangibles. I don't think he has that high of a football IQ. He's timid by nature and he's not a leader IMO. I don't think any of the things I listed can be changed.

Developed QB's can be tweaked. They CAN NOT be re-developed. Alex will never have a QB Rating>90 in a 16 game season. I'd rather look at someone else.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

I don't get how you can say that Smith has played well many times and then other times he hasn't...as if his good play has far outweighed his bad play. He has been mostly poor with flashes of good play. My thing is I don't think he has the intangibles. I don't think he has that high of a football IQ. He's timid by nature and he's not a leader IMO. I don't think any of the things I listed can be changed.

Developed QB's can be tweaked. They CAN NOT be re-developed. Alex will never have a QB Rating>90 in a 16 game season. I'd rather look at someone else.

If you believe he doesn't have the intangibles then you would have to believe he is unredeamable. I believe he has demonstrated the intangibles at times and is just inconsistent. We disagree but I certainly see your point and have to just leave it at that...we see differently.

I do not believe his good play has outweighed his bad play...they have both been intermitant...inconsistent. Just when I believe he can't learn, he would pull out a couple of series of reallly good ball and I would sit back and ask, as most fans have, can he do that more often?

I'm not sure what you mean by developed QBs. I see Smtih as an underdeveloped QB who has not received consistent training/coaching so that he can become consistent. That may be way off but that's how I see it.

As I have said before, my loyalty to players who have worked hard and who have themselves been loyal to the team, have my appreciation and support...until I just can't have faith in them anymore...which is longer than many, I understand.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

I don't get how you can say that Smith has played well many times and then other times he hasn't...as if his good play has far outweighed his bad play. He has been mostly poor with flashes of good play. My thing is I don't think he has the intangibles. I don't think he has that high of a football IQ. He's timid by nature and he's not a leader IMO. I don't think any of the things I listed can be changed.

Developed QB's can be tweaked. They CAN NOT be re-developed. Alex will never have a QB Rating>90 in a 16 game season. I'd rather look at someone else.

If you believe he doesn't have the intangibles then you would have to believe he is unredeamable. I believe he has demonstrated the intangibles at times and is just inconsistent. We disagree but I certainly see your point and have to just leave it at that...we see differently.

I do not believe his good play has outweighed his bad play...they have both been intermitant...inconsistent. Just when I believe he can't learn, he would pull out a couple of series of reallly good ball and I would sit back and ask, as most fans have, can he do that more often?

I'm not sure what you mean by developed QBs. I see Smtih as an underdeveloped QB who has not received consistent training/coaching so that he can become consistent. That may be way off but that's how I see it.

As I have said before, my loyalty to players who have worked hard and who have themselves been loyal to the team, have my appreciation and support...until I just can't have faith in them anymore...which is longer than many, I understand.

So you believe in a guy that has got us 6 losing seasons going on 7? Sorry,my loyalty to wining... Not to a guy that can't produce 1 wining season.. The reality is 2011 season is lost already,because of Alex... I can see it already.. The cards get Kolb or some other QB.. The Rams Bradford improves and the 49ers finish 3nd....

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

I don't get how you can say that Smith has played well many times and then other times he hasn't...as if his good play has far outweighed his bad play. He has been mostly poor with flashes of good play. My thing is I don't think he has the intangibles. I don't think he has that high of a football IQ. He's timid by nature and he's not a leader IMO. I don't think any of the things I listed can be changed.

Developed QB's can be tweaked. They CAN NOT be re-developed. Alex will never have a QB Rating>90 in a 16 game season. I'd rather look at someone else.

alex isnt developed having a new teacher every year does not make u developed

i agree that alex is inconsistent however he showes flashes of having the tangibles

we dont know if he is or not a leader we are not in the huddle but players like vernon davis morgan and willis have said he is a leader and now harbrough said he sees a leader in him too

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

I don't get how you can say that Smith has played well many times and then other times he hasn't...as if his good play has far outweighed his bad play. He has been mostly poor with flashes of good play. My thing is I don't think he has the intangibles. I don't think he has that high of a football IQ. He's timid by nature and he's not a leader IMO. I don't think any of the things I listed can be changed.

Developed QB's can be tweaked. They CAN NOT be re-developed. Alex will never have a QB Rating>90 in a 16 game season. I'd rather look at someone else.

alex isnt developed having a new teacher every year does not make u developed

i agree that alex is inconsistent however he showes flashes of having the tangibles

we dont know if he is or not a leader we are not in the huddle but players like vernon davis morgan and willis have said he is a leader and now harbrough said he sees a leader in him too

He's been here for 6 years, has started close to 60 games. He is developed.

He is not a leader. Vernon is the leader of that offense. Alex is a timid guy who doesn't believe in himself. Sing handed him the keys and wanted him to lead and he fell flat on his face. It's not his fault, just not his personality.

As far as teammates saying he's a leader. I don't believe that. Just look at him on the field...look at his career. What leadership qualities do you see from him? Look at Rivers, Brady, Manning, etc. Look at them, and then look at Alex. Alex has never demonstrated leadership qualities. Ever.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

I don't get how you can say that Smith has played well many times and then other times he hasn't...as if his good play has far outweighed his bad play. He has been mostly poor with flashes of good play. My thing is I don't think he has the intangibles. I don't think he has that high of a football IQ. He's timid by nature and he's not a leader IMO. I don't think any of the things I listed can be changed.

Developed QB's can be tweaked. They CAN NOT be re-developed. Alex will never have a QB Rating>90 in a 16 game season. I'd rather look at someone else.

alex isnt developed having a new teacher every year does not make u developed

i agree that alex is inconsistent however he showes flashes of having the tangibles

we dont know if he is or not a leader we are not in the huddle but players like vernon davis morgan and willis have said he is a leader and now harbrough said he sees a leader in him too

He's been here for 6 years, has started close to 60 games. He is developed.

He is not a leader. Vernon is the leader of that offense. Alex is a timid guy who doesn't believe in himself. Sing handed him the keys and wanted him to lead and he fell flat on his face. It's not his fault, just not his personality.

As far as teammates saying he's a leader. I don't believe that. Just look at him on the field...look at his career. What leadership qualities do you see from him? Look at Rivers, Brady, Manning, etc. Look at them, and then look at Alex. Alex has never demonstrated leadership qualities. Ever.

playing 60 games is being experianced not developed

develop means to advance and bring outs its capabilities in order to do that you cant have a new teacher every eyar

therefore he is not developed yet

and i agree with you from my couch he doesnt seem much like a leader but vernon davis morgan willis gore and now harbrough all say he is a leader tey are spening acuall time with alex and he is in the huddle ill take theyre word for it

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

I don't get how you can say that Smith has played well many times and then other times he hasn't...as if his good play has far outweighed his bad play. He has been mostly poor with flashes of good play. My thing is I don't think he has the intangibles. I don't think he has that high of a football IQ. He's timid by nature and he's not a leader IMO. I don't think any of the things I listed can be changed.

Developed QB's can be tweaked. They CAN NOT be re-developed. Alex will never have a QB Rating>90 in a 16 game season. I'd rather look at someone else.

alex isnt developed having a new teacher every year does not make u developed

i agree that alex is inconsistent however he showes flashes of having the tangibles

we dont know if he is or not a leader we are not in the huddle but players like vernon davis morgan and willis have said he is a leader and now harbrough said he sees a leader in him too

He's been here for 6 years, has started close to 60 games. He is developed.

He is not a leader. Vernon is the leader of that offense. Alex is a timid guy who doesn't believe in himself. Sing handed him the keys and wanted him to lead and he fell flat on his face. It's not his fault, just not his personality.

As far as teammates saying he's a leader. I don't believe that. Just look at him on the field...look at his career. What leadership qualities do you see from him? Look at Rivers, Brady, Manning, etc. Look at them, and then look at Alex. Alex has never demonstrated leadership qualities. Ever.

playing 60 games is being experianced not developed

develop means to advance and bring outs its capabilities in order to do that you cant have a new teacher every eyar

therefore he is not developed yet

and i agree with you from my couch he doesnt seem much like a leader but vernon davis morgan willis gore and now harbrough all say he is a leader tey are spening acuall time with alex and he is in the huddle ill take theyre word for it

Oh you mean the "Alex is our leader" talk? C'mon dude...that's all player speak. He's not a leader, and you know this.

I say he's developed because he's developed bad habits. I don't watch him play and think...wow, he's raw. I think that about Troy. But I don't think that when I watch Alex, Carr, etc. I see guys who were already developed (you can blame it on poor coaching if you want) and are at the stage where they can't be told to un-learn everything they've been taught since College. Carr and Alex hear footsteps...that can never be changed.

Originally posted by fakers23:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

I don't get how you can say that Smith has played well many times and then other times he hasn't...as if his good play has far outweighed his bad play. He has been mostly poor with flashes of good play. My thing is I don't think he has the intangibles. I don't think he has that high of a football IQ. He's timid by nature and he's not a leader IMO. I don't think any of the things I listed can be changed.

Developed QB's can be tweaked. They CAN NOT be re-developed. Alex will never have a QB Rating>90 in a 16 game season. I'd rather look at someone else.

If you believe he doesn't have the intangibles then you would have to believe he is unredeamable. I believe he has demonstrated the intangibles at times and is just inconsistent. We disagree but I certainly see your point and have to just leave it at that...we see differently.

I do not believe his good play has outweighed his bad play...they have both been intermitant...inconsistent. Just when I believe he can't learn, he would pull out a couple of series of reallly good ball and I would sit back and ask, as most fans have, can he do that more often?

I'm not sure what you mean by developed QBs. I see Smtih as an underdeveloped QB who has not received consistent training/coaching so that he can become consistent. That may be way off but that's how I see it.

As I have said before, my loyalty to players who have worked hard and who have themselves been loyal to the team, have my appreciation and support...until I just can't have faith in them anymore...which is longer than many, I understand.

So you believe in a guy that has got us 6 losing seasons going on 7? Sorry,my loyalty to wining... Not to a guy that can't produce 1 wining season.. The reality is 2011 season is lost already,because of Alex... I can see it already.. The cards get Kolb or some other QB.. The Rams Bradford improves and the 49ers finish 3nd....

If I believed that Smith was the reason the 9ers have lost for six seasons it would move me to root for another QB. However, I did not want Nolan as a HC because he did not impress me as the kind of guy, with the kind of experience, to lead the 9ers to victory. He proved me right. I did not want Singletary to be the HC because he was less experienced than Nolan and brought less to the table. I did not want the Yorks to keep the team because they did not seem dedicated in the way that Eddie D was. I did not want the team to play "just don't make a mistake" offense for six years because that is a good way to lose most games.

The 9ers went through a time where they had a decent line but terrible receivers and then the line fell apart (Larry Allen leaving, etc) and they picked up so-so receivers. Last year they finally addressed the line, but a line takes some time to develop, especially when you are starting a 21 year old at RT. Now they have built a decent line, have some promising WRs, excellent TEs and an all pro RB. What ever QB they bring in or keep should do better if these areas conintue to improve. Harbaugh seems quite a good choice to teach these guys how to play together.

If you want to judge last year use the D as your measure. It was not as good as the year before and players like Willis and Spikes (the definate leaders of the D) seemed less impressed with Singletary. Willis went out of his way to hug Smith after the last game, showing his appreciation.

I never have hung a team's failure on one person or even one area of a football team unless it is the HC. The 9ers have tried JTO, Hill, Smith, T Smith and Car over the past few years and none of them have looked particularly good. That says much more about the coaching and team than a QB.

JayBee, you are a very good poster. I know you're new here, but you're already showing your worth with your intelligent and well thought out posts. I generally agree with everything you say regarding Alex Smith.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It seems to boil down to judging whether Smith is capable of learning certain things to become a good QB. What those things are seems to differ from poster to poster and sometimes from two posts by the same poster.

If you agree that Smith led the team on some drives, say 80 yards or more, and did it competently and with accurate passes, the question becomes whether he can learn to be more consistant. That is a very different question than accuracy, instincts, etc.

Consistency is something that can be learned through training and through better team chemistry. Instinct is more likely to remain unchanged dispite coaching and training. My assessment of Smith is that he has played well many times over his career, with courage, and with positive results. There have been other times where he tried to make something happen when it wasn't there and failed.

Passing can also be taught. When Elway came into the league he had the touch of a sledge hammer. Every pass was at full velosity. He learned to put touch on his short passes and air under his 50 yarders. Smith needs to learn this now, though he doesn't have the arm of Elway, he has some of the same issues with touch.

Six years is a long time to wait on improvement, so I don't blame fans who are done with Smtih. All the extenuating cercumstances mean something to me, though, and I see a ray of light...and hope it is sunshine, not an oncoming train.

I don't get how you can say that Smith has played well many times and then other times he hasn't...as if his good play has far outweighed his bad play. He has been mostly poor with flashes of good play. My thing is I don't think he has the intangibles. I don't think he has that high of a football IQ. He's timid by nature and he's not a leader IMO. I don't think any of the things I listed can be changed.

Developed QB's can be tweaked. They CAN NOT be re-developed. Alex will never have a QB Rating>90 in a 16 game season. I'd rather look at someone else.

alex isnt developed having a new teacher every year does not make u developed

i agree that alex is inconsistent however he showes flashes of having the tangibles

we dont know if he is or not a leader we are not in the huddle but players like vernon davis morgan and willis have said he is a leader and now harbrough said he sees a leader in him too

He's been here for 6 years, has started close to 60 games. He is developed.

He is not a leader. Vernon is the leader of that offense. Alex is a timid guy who doesn't believe in himself. Sing handed him the keys and wanted him to lead and he fell flat on his face. It's not his fault, just not his personality.

As far as teammates saying he's a leader. I don't believe that. Just look at him on the field...look at his career. What leadership qualities do you see from him? Look at Rivers, Brady, Manning, etc. Look at them, and then look at Alex. Alex has never demonstrated leadership qualities. Ever.

playing 60 games is being experianced not developed

develop means to advance and bring outs its capabilities in order to do that you cant have a new teacher every eyar

therefore he is not developed yet

and i agree with you from my couch he doesnt seem much like a leader but vernon davis morgan willis gore and now harbrough all say he is a leader tey are spening acuall time with alex and he is in the huddle ill take theyre word for it

Oh you mean the "Alex is our leader" talk? C'mon dude...that's all player speak. He's not a leader, and you know this.

I say he's developed because he's developed bad habits. I don't watch him play and think...wow, he's raw. I think that about Troy. But I don't think that when I watch Alex, Carr, etc. I see guys who were already developed (you can blame it on poor coaching if you want) and are at the stage where they can't be told to un-learn everything they've been taught since College. Carr and Alex hear footsteps...that can never be changed.

i agree i dont think he has the drew brees leadership but one thing is that the locker room has his back and they trust him and respect him and thats one thing im sure every1 here agrees on

alexs pocket presence has improved a lot and his bad habbits have acually reduced a lot the only thing i can think of is that he needs to take more chances downfield where he is strong

and ya he does hear footsteps but that goes away with confidence in the o line right now he doesnt trust his o line and thats totally understandable but as soon as the o line becomes more solid( which it should this year ) he will stay in the pocket more