Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

I found Wodwo's stats instructive. In fact, he did a lot of work, then seemed to belittle it, as if it didn't show anything meaningful. On the contrary, it showed a great deal.

If we ignore Alex's performances against SEA, NO and KC under Raye (who was fired because of poor playcalling) and just look at Alex's QB rating in all other games under Johnson, and compare it to the average QB ratings allowed by those opponents, we find that Alex performed ABOVE the average opponent QBs in 6 of the 8 games.

If Alex can be above average with Johnson as OC, then doesn't it stand to reason that he can be even better if Harbaugh's coaching and scheme are what we hired him for? And if the performance of the OL and receivers can also improve, then he should do better yet. Can we all agree with that?

Originally posted by excelsior:
I found Wodwo's stats instructive. In fact, he did a lot of work, then seemed to belittle it, as if it didn't show anything meaningful. On the contrary, it showed a great deal.

NFL statistics are just for fun. They actually have very little meaning.

It takes an entire organization from ownership down to make a winning team.

One player's performance is insignificant.

Just ask Philip Rivers.

Careful guys, I noticed the Mods have locked another poular thread ( over a thousand postings) because it was turning into an "Alex" debate. Wow.

Alex appears to keep activity up on this board during an uneventful offseason, and the mods want to squelch it. Nothing like trying to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. It's like taking the most popular item off the store's shelves. What gives? I guess there is some hidden force that I fail to understand.

Maybe we can just refer to this unspeakable personage as "****" instead.

Originally posted by excelsior:
Careful guys, I noticed the Mods have locked another poular thread ( over a thousand postings) because it was turning into an "Alex" debate. Wow.

If everyone could have a civil conversation, it wouldn't be an issue.

Remember... you can only control your actions.

Originally posted by excelsior:
I found Wodwo's stats instructive. In fact, he did a lot of work, then seemed to belittle it, as if it didn't show anything meaningful. On the contrary, it showed a great deal.

If we ignore Alex's performances against SEA, NO and KC under Raye (who was fired because of poor playcalling) and just look at Alex's QB rating in all other games under Johnson, and compare it to the average QB ratings allowed by those opponents, we find that Alex performed ABOVE the average opponent QBs in 6 of the 8 games.

If Alex can be above average with Johnson as OC, then doesn't it stand to reason that he can be even better if Harbaugh's coaching and scheme are what we hired him for? And if the performance of the OL and receivers can also improve, then he should do better yet. Can we all agree with that?

The bolded is my problem and typical Alex apologist speak. If we forget about Alex's performances under Raye in 2010...then maybe we should forget his best season under Raye in 2009.

The funny thing is you can't pick and choose which stats are valid and which aren't.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by excelsior:
I found Wodwo's stats instructive. In fact, he did a lot of work, then seemed to belittle it, as if it didn't show anything meaningful. On the contrary, it showed a great deal.

If we ignore Alex's performances against SEA, NO and KC under Raye (who was fired because of poor playcalling) and just look at Alex's QB rating in all other games under Johnson, and compare it to the average QB ratings allowed by those opponents, we find that Alex performed ABOVE the average opponent QBs in 6 of the 8 games.

If Alex can be above average with Johnson as OC, then doesn't it stand to reason that he can be even better if Harbaugh's coaching and scheme are what we hired him for? And if the performance of the OL and receivers can also improve, then he should do better yet. Can we all agree with that?

The bolded is my problem and typical Alex apologist speak. If we forget about Alex's performances under Raye in 2010...then maybe we should forget his best season under Raye in 2009.

The funny thing is you can't pick and choose which stats are valid and which aren't.

Lol this so true. Next thing you know, they'll start to only choose the stats in games where we won, b/c in the ones we lost, the team didn't do enough to help Alex win. lmao

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by excelsior:
I found Wodwo's stats instructive. In fact, he did a lot of work, then seemed to belittle it, as if it didn't show anything meaningful. On the contrary, it showed a great deal.

If we ignore Alex's performances against SEA, NO and KC under Raye (who was fired because of poor playcalling) and just look at Alex's QB rating in all other games under Johnson, and compare it to the average QB ratings allowed by those opponents, we find that Alex performed ABOVE the average opponent QBs in 6 of the 8 games.

If Alex can be above average with Johnson as OC, then doesn't it stand to reason that he can be even better if Harbaugh's coaching and scheme are what we hired him for? And if the performance of the OL and receivers can also improve, then he should do better yet. Can we all agree with that?

The bolded is my problem and typical Alex apologist speak. If we forget about Alex's performances under Raye in 2010...then maybe we should forget his best season under Raye in 2009.

The funny thing is you can't pick and choose which stats are valid and which aren't.

Lol this so true. Next thing you know, they'll start to only choose the stats in games where we won, b/c in the ones we lost, the team didn't do enough to help Alex win. lmao

I think they already have, you just don't have time to read all the posts.

Okay guys, laugh it up, but the facts are the facts. Deal with them. The point being made is that Johnson was probably a better OC than Raye. When you look at Alex's play under Johnson, he not only playing better. he also played better on average than the other NFL QBs who played against those same teams.

I know that that is an uncomfortable stat for you, and if you choose to deflect its significance, then so be it. Perhaps your egos have become so invested in believing that Alex is a bad QB that you refuse to concede the possible significance of any numbers that suggest otherwise. This is what makes this excercise so entertaining and amusing.

How to get a thread locked? My observation is that the top five methods seem to be:

1. Personal attack
2. Baiting
3. Rising to the bait
4. Impersonal mocking
5. Non-thread related criticism

Trying to avoid these five is difficult at times but worthwhile when a genuine discussion is accomplished.

Edit: When posters seem to be trying to get a thread locked are they warned? Just curious.

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Feb 15, 2011 at 20:56:19 ]

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by excelsior:
I found Wodwo's stats instructive. In fact, he did a lot of work, then seemed to belittle it, as if it didn't show anything meaningful. On the contrary, it showed a great deal.

If we ignore Alex's performances against SEA, NO and KC under Raye (who was fired because of poor playcalling) and just look at Alex's QB rating in all other games under Johnson, and compare it to the average QB ratings allowed by those opponents, we find that Alex performed ABOVE the average opponent QBs in 6 of the 8 games.

If Alex can be above average with Johnson as OC, then doesn't it stand to reason that he can be even better if Harbaugh's coaching and scheme are what we hired him for? And if the performance of the OL and receivers can also improve, then he should do better yet. Can we all agree with that?

The bolded is my problem and typical Alex apologist speak. If we forget about Alex's performances under Raye in 2010...then maybe we should forget his best season under Raye in 2009.

The funny thing is you can't pick and choose which stats are valid and which aren't.

Lol this so true. Next thing you know, they'll start to only choose the stats in games where we won, b/c in the ones we lost, the team didn't do enough to help Alex win. lmao

Here's a little fun fact for you guys: Did you know that if you take out all of Alex Smith's interceptions and incomplete passes in 2010 he has a near perfect passer rating...

Originally posted by excelsior:
Okay guys, laugh it up, but the facts are the facts. Deal with them. The point being made is that Johnson was probably a better OC than Raye. When you look at Alex's play under Johnson, he not only playing better. he also played better on average than the other NFL QBs who played against those same teams.

I know that that is an uncomfortable stat for you, and if you choose to deflect its significance, then so be it. Perhaps your egos have become so invested in believing that Alex is a bad QB that you refuse to concede the possible significance of any numbers that suggest otherwise. This is what makes this excercise so entertaining and amusing.

So do you want to take out Alex's 2009 year b/c raye was his OC? Wasn't that his best year?
Obviously, you didn't answer this question when it was asked.

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Okay guys, laugh it up, but the facts are the facts. Deal with them. The point being made is that Johnson was probably a better OC than Raye. When you look at Alex's play under Johnson, he not only playing better. he also played better on average than the other NFL QBs who played against those same teams.

I know that that is an uncomfortable stat for you, and if you choose to deflect its significance, then so be it. Perhaps your egos have become so invested in believing that Alex is a bad QB that you refuse to concede the possible significance of any numbers that suggest otherwise. This is what makes this excercise so entertaining and amusing.

So do you want to take out Alex's 2009 year b/c raye was his OC? Wasn't that his best year?
Obviously, you didn't answer this question when it was asked.

if i remmeber correctly (and i do) in 2009 we ran the spread offense with alex this year we abandined it for some reason no clue why

i acually found this realy weird

[ Edited by 49ersalldaway126 on Feb 15, 2011 at 20:54:45 ]

Originally posted by excelsior:
Okay guys, laugh it up, but the facts are the facts. Deal with them. The point being made is that Johnson was probably a better OC than Raye. When you look at Alex's play under Johnson, he not only playing better. he also played better on average than the other NFL QBs who played against those same teams.

I know that that is an uncomfortable stat for you, and if you choose to deflect its significance, then so be it. Perhaps your egos have become so invested in believing that Alex is a bad QB that you refuse to concede the possible significance of any numbers that suggest otherwise. This is what makes this excercise so entertaining and amusing.

You should never refer to facts when defending Alex. Fact is he's a poor QB. I'm not even saying this as a hater. The numbers show that he is not good.

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Okay guys, laugh it up, but the facts are the facts. Deal with them. The point being made is that Johnson was probably a better OC than Raye. When you look at Alex's play under Johnson, he not only playing better. he also played better on average than the other NFL QBs who played against those same teams.

I know that that is an uncomfortable stat for you, and if you choose to deflect its significance, then so be it. Perhaps your egos have become so invested in believing that Alex is a bad QB that you refuse to concede the possible significance of any numbers that suggest otherwise. This is what makes this excercise so entertaining and amusing.

So do you want to take out Alex's 2009 year b/c raye was his OC? Wasn't that his best year?
Obviously, you didn't answer this question when it was asked.

if i remmeber correctly (and i do) in 2009 we ran the spread offense with alex this year we abandined it for some reason no clue why

i acually found this realy weird

But Alex's numbers were better with Johnson (who didn't run a spread offense) than with Raye who did. I won't even point to the garbage time stats that Alex usually has racked up.

Green Bay & Houston '09 (6 of Alex's 18 TD's came from those 2 games)
Philly '10 (1/4 of Alex's TD's came from this game)

You can't say Alex's best season was with Raye as OC...then say Raye's the reason why Alex struggled at the beginning of the year.

You can't say Alex was great in 09 because of the spread offense...but then blame his struggles in 2010 because Raye didn't run the spread O this year. But I thought Alex's best numbers were under Johnson...who didn't run the spread either.

There are just far too many inconsistencies...and that happens when you try to cherry pick stats.

Is this the only place to talk about A. Smith?

I can only imagine why they would shut down the most popular thread on this forum.

Pointless arguments or not, its just good business to keep the official alex smith thread open...especially when our new coach is talking about retaining him...