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What do we do with lawson!

Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.


Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Lawson is also pulled out on passing downs. He is mainly utilized to cover a TE or set the edge on rushing downs. Setting an edge is pretty important factor for stopping the run. If you don't believe me just watch Harolson try and do it. The fact is that while he isn't that sack master that for some reason some expected him to be, he is still one of the top OLB in the league. I stand by my opinion that letting Lawson go will be a HUGE mistake on our part.

I also think Lawson is one of the best OLB's in the league, but in a 3-4, the primary job is pass rush. He is a player who is playing in the perfectly wrong scheme for what he does best.

Salary cap is everything. If we pay Lawson a lot of money to do everything but rush the passer, we are under-utilizing that money for that position on the field. If there was no salary cap, I would be 100% in favor of keeping Lawson for the reasons you stated, but with a salary cap, you can't keep all the good players on your team, you can only keep the players that FIT well on your team.

Lawson will be a perennial All-Pro in a 4-3 scheme, but we can't pay him All-Pro money if he can't get to the quarterback in our 3-4 scheme. It always comes down to money.
Originally posted by greywolf447:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by greywolf447:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.


Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Lawson is also pulled out on passing downs. He is mainly utilized to cover a TE or set the edge on rushing downs. Setting an edge is pretty important factor for stopping the run. If you don't believe me just watch Harolson try and do it. The fact is that while he isn't that sack master that for some reason some expected him to be, he is still one of the top OLB in the league. I stand by my opinion that letting Lawson go will be a HUGE mistake on our part.

I think you need to watch the Super Bowl and pay close attention to the D's. Then ask yourself if you think either of those teams would want Manny on their team. Ask yourself if any of their OLB resemble Manny for that matter. Specifically pay attention to Green Bay's! That what I hope our D looks like next season!



did you read my posts? I've already stated that Manny Lawson isn't a guy that will get you 10+ sacks. If you're going to try and "call me out" at least know wtf you're talking about.

I'm just saying that I don't believe you understand what it takes to be successful in a 34 D. Pass rushing OLB is essential for 34 D. Something that Manny cannot do. That's why I recommended that you watch the 2 best 34 D's in the league and ask yourself if you think the steelers or packers would have any interest in Manny.

actually I do understand what it takes. And one of the key reasons why coaches turn to the 3-4 defense is because it gives them more creativity with the defense. Disguising a blitz or a defense would have been great to try all season long. Did we ever do it? Nope. I have already been in a "debate" with another poster about what is more important, a sack or pressure. I would rather have pressure over a sack. Pressure causes the QB to hurry his progression and possibly make a mistake and throw an INT. Our defenses problem was we were always in that damn soft zone so there was always a receiver that didn't have a defender within 10 yards of him.
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by Owens81Owns:

Says who? You? I've seen him many times rush off the edge and dominate a tackle 1 on 1. That is what I would call "an elite pass rusher". Now sure, Capers does other things with him as well, but to say Matthews isn't an elite pass rusher and is a product of Caper's blitzes is quite ridiculous.

I actually think it meets in the middle.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Owens81Owns:

Says who? You? I've seen him many times rush off the edge and dominate a tackle 1 on 1. That is what I would call "an elite pass rusher". Now sure, Capers does other things with him as well, but to say Matthews isn't an elite pass rusher and is a product of Caper's blitzes is quite ridiculous.

I actually think it meets in the middle.

Have to agree to disagree on that.
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by greywolf447:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by greywolf447:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.


Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Lawson is also pulled out on passing downs. He is mainly utilized to cover a TE or set the edge on rushing downs. Setting an edge is pretty important factor for stopping the run. If you don't believe me just watch Harolson try and do it. The fact is that while he isn't that sack master that for some reason some expected him to be, he is still one of the top OLB in the league. I stand by my opinion that letting Lawson go will be a HUGE mistake on our part.

I think you need to watch the Super Bowl and pay close attention to the D's. Then ask yourself if you think either of those teams would want Manny on their team. Ask yourself if any of their OLB resemble Manny for that matter. Specifically pay attention to Green Bay's! That what I hope our D looks like next season!



did you read my posts? I've already stated that Manny Lawson isn't a guy that will get you 10+ sacks. If you're going to try and "call me out" at least know wtf you're talking about.

I'm just saying that I don't believe you understand what it takes to be successful in a 34 D. Pass rushing OLB is essential for 34 D. Something that Manny cannot do. That's why I recommended that you watch the 2 best 34 D's in the league and ask yourself if you think the steelers or packers would have any interest in Manny.

actually I do understand what it takes. And one of the key reasons why coaches turn to the 3-4 defense is because it gives them more creativity with the defense. Disguising a blitz or a defense would have been great to try all season long. Did we ever do it? Nope. I have already been in a "debate" with another poster about what is more important, a sack or pressure. I would rather have pressure over a sack. Pressure causes the QB to hurry his progression and possibly make a mistake and throw an INT. Our defenses problem was we were always in that damn soft zone so there was always a receiver that didn't have a defender within 10 yards of him.

I'm sure that was nate's man and he was to busy jumping the route! Really i think lawson would be a person to keep. I believe he just needs some coaching, but the talent he has!
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by greywolf447:

I'm just saying that I don't believe you understand what it takes to be successful in a 34 D. Pass rushing OLB is essential for 34 D. Something that Manny cannot do. That's why I recommended that you watch the 2 best 34 D's in the league and ask yourself if you think the steelers or packers would have any interest in Manny.

Matthews had 13.5 sacks.

How many sacks did the rest of Green Bay's linebackers have?
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by greywolf447:

I'm just saying that I don't believe you understand what it takes to be successful in a 34 D. Pass rushing OLB is essential for 34 D. Something that Manny cannot do. That's why I recommended that you watch the 2 best 34 D's in the league and ask yourself if you think the steelers or packers would have any interest in Manny.

Matthews had 13.5 sacks.

How many sacks did the rest of Green Bay's linebackers have?

Good point, their dline, matthews, and great secondary is what get's the job done... I still think he's a great option. We must upgrade over harlson if anything!!! You can't teach speed.. Manny has showed he can bull rush, even rush the edge. We just need someone to bring his game level to max. I think he could be a 10+ guy if we found a coach!!!
Lawson actually played pretty good this year but he will test the market to get more money. if he finds someone who will pay the money than we don't match and we move on. If no one offers him the big contract than i think we can resign him at a decent price. The problem is with the cba crap, we might have to decide what to do in the draft without knowing if we will resign him. I say draft von miller regardless because adding pressure to the opposing offense makes everyone better. More turnovers, corners don't have to cover so long. defense gets off the field faster. More 3 and outs. Please draft Miller.
get rid of parys keep lawson draft miller
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by greywolf447:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by greywolf447:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.


Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Lawson is also pulled out on passing downs. He is mainly utilized to cover a TE or set the edge on rushing downs. Setting an edge is pretty important factor for stopping the run. If you don't believe me just watch Harolson try and do it. The fact is that while he isn't that sack master that for some reason some expected him to be, he is still one of the top OLB in the league. I stand by my opinion that letting Lawson go will be a HUGE mistake on our part.

I think you need to watch the Super Bowl and pay close attention to the D's. Then ask yourself if you think either of those teams would want Manny on their team. Ask yourself if any of their OLB resemble Manny for that matter. Specifically pay attention to Green Bay's! That what I hope our D looks like next season!



did you read my posts? I've already stated that Manny Lawson isn't a guy that will get you 10+ sacks. If you're going to try and "call me out" at least know wtf you're talking about.

I'm just saying that I don't believe you understand what it takes to be successful in a 34 D. Pass rushing OLB is essential for 34 D. Something that Manny cannot do. That's why I recommended that you watch the 2 best 34 D's in the league and ask yourself if you think the steelers or packers would have any interest in Manny.

actually I do understand what it takes. And one of the key reasons why coaches turn to the 3-4 defense is because it gives them more creativity with the defense. Disguising a blitz or a defense would have been great to try all season long. Did we ever do it? Nope. I have already been in a "debate" with another poster about what is more important, a sack or pressure. I would rather have pressure over a sack. Pressure causes the QB to hurry his progression and possibly make a mistake and throw an INT. Our defenses problem was we were always in that damn soft zone so there was always a receiver that didn't have a defender within 10 yards of him.

Why did we pull Manny on obvious passing downs? Because no one respects his pass rush or pressure. In doing this we really aren't disguising our D. My theory is that Manny is too tall and doesn't have enough weight. The rule thumb is low man wins. He is too tall. Now there are OLB that are the same height as Manny but they have more bulk so they can use power moves ala DeMarcus Ware. Never the less I don't see the niners wanting him back. Even the old regime didn't want him back. All the top talent they negotiated new contract well in advance.
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by Owens81Owns:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Owens81Owns:

Says who? You? I've seen him many times rush off the edge and dominate a tackle 1 on 1. That is what I would call "an elite pass rusher". Now sure, Capers does other things with him as well, but to say Matthews isn't an elite pass rusher and is a product of Caper's blitzes is quite ridiculous.

I actually think it meets in the middle.

Have to agree to disagree on that.

Ok.

One question with no counter argument from me.

Does Clay Matthews have 13.5 sacks playing in the scheme we ran last season?
what are his full stats since hes been with the 9ers?
If Manny is not resigned you can bet he's east coast bound.

I could see him in a Bills or Redskins jersey. Plus he will be within a couple hours of his native North Carolina.
I love how Lawson is considered a bust by most the fanbase, when they really have no idea what theyre talking about.

"Manny Lawson is overrated! he doesnt do anything, what a bust..." what? Lawson has been really good at rushing the passer when hes assigned to do so. hes actually been very solid. Haralson deserves alot more of the criticism, and even hes been better than he gets credit for. you have to look at the scheme, and how theyre being used. just because Lawson does put up DeMarcus Ware sack numbers doesnt make him a bad player.
Originally posted by Niners99:
I love how Lawson is considered a bust by most the fanbase, when they really have no idea what theyre talking about.

"Manny Lawson is overrated! he doesnt do anything, what a bust..." what? Lawson has been really good at rushing the passer when hes assigned to do so. hes actually been very solid. Haralson deserves alot more of the criticism, and even hes been better than he gets credit for. you have to look at the scheme, and how theyre being used. just because Lawson does put up DeMarcus Ware sack numbers doesnt make him a bad player.

this