Official Alex Smith Thread

yall are crazy.

Originally posted by binary2nd:
yall are crazy.

We only have one more month (hopefully) until Free Agency and almost 3 until the draft

Originally posted by Leathaface:
If other NFL coaches think that Alex Smith is this wonderkid talent that just needed better coaching (like some of you believe)...he'll have multiple teams trying to pick him up not for a backup role, but for a potential starting position down the line...LOL, now do any of you seriously believe that there are teams out there that believe this guy is a pro-bowl QB being brought down simply by circumstance?

At what point do you start blaming HIM for HIS shortcomings?

ALL QBs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

Some are inherently better than others (Aaron Rodgers vs. Alex Smith). You can't simply say coaching has everything to do with it...talent (or in Alex's case, lack thereof) has more to do with it than anything else. If it were simply about coaching, then why don't NFL teams pay coaches QB $ and QBs coach $?

Good coaching won't make bad players look good...but good players will make bad coaching look good.

There was this dude, he had Jimmy Raye as his coordinator and HE SUCKED. I mean this guy was so bad. His team wasn't very good either, but man, he came from a gimmick Offense out of college and he sucked in that system. The fans hated him, he was deemed a bust and shipped off. His name was Steve Young, and he's forever grateful he received the proper coaching he did when he came to SF that totally changed how he played the position.

It makes a huge difference, whether you fail to see it or not, those that have watched good playcalling and good play design can tell the difference. Those that watched the schemes that great 9er coaches used to come up with on a weekly basis, they know the effect good coaching can have. These were the first people to point out how flawed Singletary was.

[ Edited by binary2nd on Feb 2, 2011 at 05:23:05 ]

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
If other NFL coaches think that Alex Smith is this wonderkid talent that just needed better coaching (like some of you believe)...he'll have multiple teams trying to pick him up not for a backup role, but for a potential starting position down the line...LOL, now do any of you seriously believe that there are teams out there that believe this guy is a pro-bowl QB being brought down simply by circumstance?

At what point do you start blaming HIM for HIS shortcomings?

ALL QBs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

Some are inherently better than others (Aaron Rodgers vs. Alex Smith). You can't simply say coaching has everything to do with it...talent (or in Alex's case, lack thereof) has more to do with it than anything else. If it were simply about coaching, then why don't NFL teams pay coaches QB $ and QBs coach $?

Good coaching won't make bad players look good...but good players will make bad coaching look good.

There was this dude, he had Jimmy Raye as his coordinator and HE SUCKED. I mean this guy was so bad. His team wasn't very good either, but man, he came from a gimmick Offense out of college and he sucked in that system. The fans hated him, he was deemed a bust and shipped off. His name was Steve Young, and he's forever grateful he received the proper coaching he did when he came to SF that totally changed how he played the position.

It makes a huge difference, whether you fail to see it or not, those that have watched good playcalling and good play design can tell the difference. Those that watched the schemes that great 9er coaches used to come up with on a weekly basis, they know the effect good coaching can have. These were the first people to point out how flawed Singletary was.

I get your point and agree to some extent... but seriously, are you really comparing Alex to Steve? Very extreme example if you ask me.



LB

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
If other NFL coaches think that Alex Smith is this wonderkid talent that just needed better coaching (like some of you believe)...he'll have multiple teams trying to pick him up not for a backup role, but for a potential starting position down the line...LOL, now do any of you seriously believe that there are teams out there that believe this guy is a pro-bowl QB being brought down simply by circumstance?

At what point do you start blaming HIM for HIS shortcomings?

ALL QBs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

Some are inherently better than others (Aaron Rodgers vs. Alex Smith). You can't simply say coaching has everything to do with it...talent (or in Alex's case, lack thereof) has more to do with it than anything else. If it were simply about coaching, then why don't NFL teams pay coaches QB $ and QBs coach $?

Good coaching won't make bad players look good...but good players will make bad coaching look good.

There was this dude, he had Jimmy Raye as his coordinator and HE SUCKED. I mean this guy was so bad. His team wasn't very good either, but man, he came from a gimmick Offense out of college and he sucked in that system. The fans hated him, he was deemed a bust and shipped off. His name was Steve Young, and he's forever grateful he received the proper coaching he did when he came to SF that totally changed how he played the position.

It makes a huge difference, whether you fail to see it or not, those that have watched good playcalling and good play design can tell the difference. Those that watched the schemes that great 9er coaches used to come up with on a weekly basis, they know the effect good coaching can have. These were the first people to point out how flawed Singletary was.

I get your point and agree to some extent... but seriously, are you really comparing Alex to Steve? Very extreme example if you ask me.



LB

He's comparing the way good players are put in bad situation to make them worse. I live in FL and get to see all the qb that came through the Bucs at the time. Steve tried to throw the ball. Most of the time he couldn't, he was using his feet and speed to run for his life. You could see his great escapability at the time. But you don't know how he is as a passer cause he didn't get a chance to do much and pretty much looked like every other qb that came through there before and after. He may be pissed at Walsh for telling him he would start for Montana, but at the same time I know he appreciated Walsh for taking him out of that hell hole team.

So yeah, coaching and how a team deal with the qb position makes a difference in a qb's career.

[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Feb 2, 2011 at 07:24:02 ]

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
If other NFL coaches think that Alex Smith is this wonderkid talent that just needed better coaching (like some of you believe)...he'll have multiple teams trying to pick him up not for a backup role, but for a potential starting position down the line...LOL, now do any of you seriously believe that there are teams out there that believe this guy is a pro-bowl QB being brought down simply by circumstance?

At what point do you start blaming HIM for HIS shortcomings?

ALL QBs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

Some are inherently better than others (Aaron Rodgers vs. Alex Smith). You can't simply say coaching has everything to do with it...talent (or in Alex's case, lack thereof) has more to do with it than anything else. If it were simply about coaching, then why don't NFL teams pay coaches QB $ and QBs coach $?

Good coaching won't make bad players look good...but good players will make bad coaching look good.

There was this dude, he had Jimmy Raye as his coordinator and HE SUCKED. I mean this guy was so bad. His team wasn't very good either, but man, he came from a gimmick Offense out of college and he sucked in that system. The fans hated him, he was deemed a bust and shipped off. His name was Steve Young, and he's forever grateful he received the proper coaching he did when he came to SF that totally changed how he played the position.

It makes a huge difference, whether you fail to see it or not, those that have watched good playcalling and good play design can tell the difference. Those that watched the schemes that great 9er coaches used to come up with on a weekly basis, they know the effect good coaching can have. These were the first people to point out how flawed Singletary was.

I get your point and agree to some extent... but seriously, are you really comparing Alex to Steve? Very extreme example if you ask me.



LB

He's comparing the way good players are put in bad situation to make them worse. I live in FL and get to see all the qb that came through the Bucs at the time. Steve tried to throw the ball. Most of the time he couldn't, he was using his feet and speed to run for his life. You could see his great escapability at the time. But you don't know how he is as a passer cause he didn't get a chance to do much and pretty much looked like every other qb that came through there before and after. He may be pissed at Walsh for telling him he would start for Montana, but at the same time I know he appreciated Walsh for taking him out of that hell hole team.

So yeah, coaching and how a team deal with the qb position makes a difference in a qb's career.

Alex is not a good player. And Steve Young is not the rule, he's the exception.

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
If other NFL coaches think that Alex Smith is this wonderkid talent that just needed better coaching (like some of you believe)...he'll have multiple teams trying to pick him up not for a backup role, but for a potential starting position down the line...LOL, now do any of you seriously believe that there are teams out there that believe this guy is a pro-bowl QB being brought down simply by circumstance?

At what point do you start blaming HIM for HIS shortcomings?

ALL QBs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

Some are inherently better than others (Aaron Rodgers vs. Alex Smith). You can't simply say coaching has everything to do with it...talent (or in Alex's case, lack thereof) has more to do with it than anything else. If it were simply about coaching, then why don't NFL teams pay coaches QB $ and QBs coach $?

Good coaching won't make bad players look good...but good players will make bad coaching look good.

There was this dude, he had Jimmy Raye as his coordinator and HE SUCKED. I mean this guy was so bad. His team wasn't very good either, but man, he came from a gimmick Offense out of college and he sucked in that system. The fans hated him, he was deemed a bust and shipped off. His name was Steve Young, and he's forever grateful he received the proper coaching he did when he came to SF that totally changed how he played the position.

It makes a huge difference, whether you fail to see it or not, those that have watched good playcalling and good play design can tell the difference. Those that watched the schemes that great 9er coaches used to come up with on a weekly basis, they know the effect good coaching can have. These were the first people to point out how flawed Singletary was.

I get your point and agree to some extent... but seriously, are you really comparing Alex to Steve? Very extreme example if you ask me.



LB

He's comparing the way good players are put in bad situation to make them worse. I live in FL and get to see all the qb that came through the Bucs at the time. Steve tried to throw the ball. Most of the time he couldn't, he was using his feet and speed to run for his life. You could see his great escapability at the time. But you don't know how he is as a passer cause he didn't get a chance to do much and pretty much looked like every other qb that came through there before and after. He may be pissed at Walsh for telling him he would start for Montana, but at the same time I know he appreciated Walsh for taking him out of that hell hole team.

So yeah, coaching and how a team deal with the qb position makes a difference in a qb's career.

Alex is not a good player. And Steve Young is not the rule, he's the exception.

You are saying this to help your side of the argument. There are more example of players moving on to another team and do well or better. A. Smith and A. Rodgers have talent coming out of college just like Steve from BYU. It's how they were dealt when they came into their NFL team that makes the difference. Not all the difference but certainly affects their career. Can't totally dismissed that.

[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Feb 2, 2011 at 07:52:48 ]

Steve Young in his wild, early days would still pull off eye-popping plays on his own that made you think "If only he can get discipline and precision instilled in his game, he would be a great one."

You can apply the same to Mike Vick, Vince Young, Brett Favre, even Tim Tebow.

You cannot apply the same to Alex Smith.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
Steve Young in his wild, early days would still pull off eye-popping plays on his own that made you think "If only he can get discipline and precision instilled in his game, he would be a great one."

You can apply the same to Mike Vick, Vince Young, Brett Favre, even Tim Tebow.

You cannot apply the same to Alex Smith.

I disagree. Steve in his early NFL days didn't show much as a passer. He didn't have a weak arm but pretty average. But you can see very early on he can run. Different qb different set of skills to coach into playing qb in the NFL.

[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Feb 2, 2011 at 08:05:43 ]

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
If other NFL coaches think that Alex Smith is this wonderkid talent that just needed better coaching (like some of you believe)...he'll have multiple teams trying to pick him up not for a backup role, but for a potential starting position down the line...LOL, now do any of you seriously believe that there are teams out there that believe this guy is a pro-bowl QB being brought down simply by circumstance?

At what point do you start blaming HIM for HIS shortcomings?

ALL QBs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

Some are inherently better than others (Aaron Rodgers vs. Alex Smith). You can't simply say coaching has everything to do with it...talent (or in Alex's case, lack thereof) has more to do with it than anything else. If it were simply about coaching, then why don't NFL teams pay coaches QB $ and QBs coach $?

Good coaching won't make bad players look good...but good players will make bad coaching look good.

There was this dude, he had Jimmy Raye as his coordinator and HE SUCKED. I mean this guy was so bad. His team wasn't very good either, but man, he came from a gimmick Offense out of college and he sucked in that system. The fans hated him, he was deemed a bust and shipped off. His name was Steve Young, and he's forever grateful he received the proper coaching he did when he came to SF that totally changed how he played the position.

It makes a huge difference, whether you fail to see it or not, those that have watched good playcalling and good play design can tell the difference. Those that watched the schemes that great 9er coaches used to come up with on a weekly basis, they know the effect good coaching can have. These were the first people to point out how flawed Singletary was.

I get your point and agree to some extent... but seriously, are you really comparing Alex to Steve? Very extreme example if you ask me.



LB

He's comparing the way good players are put in bad situation to make them worse. I live in FL and get to see all the qb that came through the Bucs at the time. Steve tried to throw the ball. Most of the time he couldn't, he was using his feet and speed to run for his life. You could see his great escapability at the time. But you don't know how he is as a passer cause he didn't get a chance to do much and pretty much looked like every other qb that came through there before and after. He may be pissed at Walsh for telling him he would start for Montana, but at the same time I know he appreciated Walsh for taking him out of that hell hole team.

So yeah, coaching and how a team deal with the qb position makes a difference in a qb's career.

We all get that coaching is important and Walsh essentially saved Steve's career. I don't think that anyone here has argued that and if so, there weren't many. It's just that putting Alex and Steve in the same sentence and comparing the two really makes the point you and others are trying to make (about coaching) laughable. Those two QBs simply cannot be compared to one another, ever.

LB

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
If other NFL coaches think that Alex Smith is this wonderkid talent that just needed better coaching (like some of you believe)...he'll have multiple teams trying to pick him up not for a backup role, but for a potential starting position down the line...LOL, now do any of you seriously believe that there are teams out there that believe this guy is a pro-bowl QB being brought down simply by circumstance?

At what point do you start blaming HIM for HIS shortcomings?

ALL QBs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

Some are inherently better than others (Aaron Rodgers vs. Alex Smith). You can't simply say coaching has everything to do with it...talent (or in Alex's case, lack thereof) has more to do with it than anything else. If it were simply about coaching, then why don't NFL teams pay coaches QB $ and QBs coach $?

Good coaching won't make bad players look good...but good players will make bad coaching look good.

There was this dude, he had Jimmy Raye as his coordinator and HE SUCKED. I mean this guy was so bad. His team wasn't very good either, but man, he came from a gimmick Offense out of college and he sucked in that system. The fans hated him, he was deemed a bust and shipped off. His name was Steve Young, and he's forever grateful he received the proper coaching he did when he came to SF that totally changed how he played the position.

It makes a huge difference, whether you fail to see it or not, those that have watched good playcalling and good play design can tell the difference. Those that watched the schemes that great 9er coaches used to come up with on a weekly basis, they know the effect good coaching can have. These were the first people to point out how flawed Singletary was.

I get your point and agree to some extent... but seriously, are you really comparing Alex to Steve? Very extreme example if you ask me.



LB

He's comparing the way good players are put in bad situation to make them worse. I live in FL and get to see all the qb that came through the Bucs at the time. Steve tried to throw the ball. Most of the time he couldn't, he was using his feet and speed to run for his life. You could see his great escapability at the time. But you don't know how he is as a passer cause he didn't get a chance to do much and pretty much looked like every other qb that came through there before and after. He may be pissed at Walsh for telling him he would start for Montana, but at the same time I know he appreciated Walsh for taking him out of that hell hole team.

So yeah, coaching and how a team deal with the qb position makes a difference in a qb's career.

We all get that coaching is important and Walsh essentially saved Steve's career. I don't think that anyone here has argued that and if so, there weren't many. It's just that putting Alex and Steve in the same sentence and comparing the two really makes the point you and others are trying to make (about coaching) laughable. Those two QBs simply cannot be compared to one another, ever.

LB

So I take it you didn't get to see Steve played in Tampa. Because if you did you would not dismissed the comparison of their early career so easily.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
Steve Young in his wild, early days would still pull off eye-popping plays on his own that made you think "If only he can get discipline and precision instilled in his game, he would be a great one."

You can apply the same to Mike Vick, Vince Young, Brett Favre, even Tim Tebow.

You cannot apply the same to Alex Smith.

I disagree. Steve in his early NFL days didn't show much as a passer. He didn't have a weak arm but pretty average. But you can see very early on he can run. Different qb different set of skills to coach into playing qb in the NFL.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with.
"Wild, early days" connotes "didn't show much as a passer." I believe I'm saying the same thing. He made a lot of plays with his legs, either outright runs, or escaping out of the pocket to complete passes (ugly, pretty, or otherwise). Bottom line, fans and coaches were inclined to be patient with him because he would do things that make you go "wow, how the heck did he pull that off?"

Alex Smith? I see a manufactured, mechanical QB who is competent under ideal conditions but when things break down, he breaks down. He has not made enough plays under adverse conditions or "wow" plays that make me think we should stick it out with this guy just a little bit longer.

I used to be a big Alex Smith supporter up to mid of the 2009 season, but no more. My shelf life of faith on his future development is expired.

In hindsight, I remember seeing him through his rookie year preseason and during most of the regular season and just thinking 'Wow, this guy looks horrible, really really horrible, like a practice squad FA reject instead of the # 1 pick in the draft."

I should have followed my instincts.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
Steve Young in his wild, early days would still pull off eye-popping plays on his own that made you think "If only he can get discipline and precision instilled in his game, he would be a great one."

You can apply the same to Mike Vick, Vince Young, Brett Favre, even Tim Tebow.

You cannot apply the same to Alex Smith.

I disagree. Steve in his early NFL days didn't show much as a passer. He didn't have a weak arm but pretty average. But you can see very early on he can run. Different qb different set of skills to coach into playing qb in the NFL.

Agreed and that's why Jake Locker reminds me of a young Steve and I want to like the kid ..........but I just can't go there right now. If Harbaugh thinks he can make him or Alex an accurate passer, then I'll buy into it with cautious optimism.

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
If other NFL coaches think that Alex Smith is this wonderkid talent that just needed better coaching (like some of you believe)...he'll have multiple teams trying to pick him up not for a backup role, but for a potential starting position down the line...LOL, now do any of you seriously believe that there are teams out there that believe this guy is a pro-bowl QB being brought down simply by circumstance?

At what point do you start blaming HIM for HIS shortcomings?

ALL QBs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

Some are inherently better than others (Aaron Rodgers vs. Alex Smith). You can't simply say coaching has everything to do with it...talent (or in Alex's case, lack thereof) has more to do with it than anything else. If it were simply about coaching, then why don't NFL teams pay coaches QB $ and QBs coach $?

Good coaching won't make bad players look good...but good players will make bad coaching look good.

There was this dude, he had Jimmy Raye as his coordinator and HE SUCKED. I mean this guy was so bad. His team wasn't very good either, but man, he came from a gimmick Offense out of college and he sucked in that system. The fans hated him, he was deemed a bust and shipped off. His name was Steve Young, and he's forever grateful he received the proper coaching he did when he came to SF that totally changed how he played the position.

It makes a huge difference, whether you fail to see it or not, those that have watched good playcalling and good play design can tell the difference. Those that watched the schemes that great 9er coaches used to come up with on a weekly basis, they know the effect good coaching can have. These were the first people to point out how flawed Singletary was.

I get your point and agree to some extent... but seriously, are you really comparing Alex to Steve? Very extreme example if you ask me.



LB

He's comparing the way good players are put in bad situation to make them worse. I live in FL and get to see all the qb that came through the Bucs at the time. Steve tried to throw the ball. Most of the time he couldn't, he was using his feet and speed to run for his life. You could see his great escapability at the time. But you don't know how he is as a passer cause he didn't get a chance to do much and pretty much looked like every other qb that came through there before and after. He may be pissed at Walsh for telling him he would start for Montana, but at the same time I know he appreciated Walsh for taking him out of that hell hole team.

So yeah, coaching and how a team deal with the qb position makes a difference in a qb's career.

Alex is not a good player. And Steve Young is not the rule, he's the exception.

Young's relationship with the fans in TB was very much like Alex and SF now. When Young was traded away, the fans cheered his leaving.

The point is; quality coaching and the environment have a tremendous impact on the development of a player. We have had many threads here about poor coaching over the past 8 years. There were threads criticizing Mike McCarthy for being too conservative in his play calling. He was called every name in the book but he was working with a bunch of 3rd rate players and a QB fresh out of college being asked to play in a manner totally different from his college days. Billy Davis was a terrible DC and had lots of threads about him. Position coaches were changed every year - some for the better, some not...but few players showed actual improvement in their play. Even now we have an OL filled with 1st and 2nd round draft picks and led the league in QB hits. Poor coaching yields inconsistent play regardless of the level of talent. Steve Young is just one example but a good one.

We cannot justifiably criticize the coaching staff and then turn around and say the players should learn on their own how to play the game. The logic is just not there.


Nobody here knows what kind of player Alex Smith can be. No one. What we do know is the the merry-go-round of junk coaches here over the past 6 years have played a large role in the player he is now. We can deny that and go off on whatever tangent we want but it won't change the fact that poor coaching yields poor play.