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Jim Leavitt hired as new Linebackers Coach

  • GORO
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,822
I have reservations about Fangio but Leavitt and the DB coach from denver are good hires plus Tomsula may help him improve the D.
  • Antix
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,814
We went from havin a LBers coach be our HC to a HC bein our LBers coach. Thats a positive progression.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Complicated. Very complicated.

For example, in Carolina he had an old veteran defense that either moved on or retired.

Outside that example, I haven't looked closely at the statistics.

However, total yardage allowed is not the only factor or even the best factor in determining the performance of a defense.

For example, our defense performed terribly this season, except against the run. Bad pass defense, poor tackling, poor pass rush, poor turnovers, poor discipline in general. Yet, we were middle of the pack in total yards because of our run defense, which we emphasized in our scheme.

You really need to have watched the games and followed the team in order to get a complete picture. You also need to have a good understanding of defensive schemes... coverages, gap assignments,... etc.

That said, there's nothing wrong with being worried. Those statistics do look bad.

We won't know for sure until we get to watch a couple seasons.

If you want something to help you feel a little better, it looks to me like we've got an experienced defensive coaching staff. Every position coach has been a defensive coordinator or head coach. If Fangio or anyone else is doing something that is hurting the team, there will be many experienced minds to point it out to Jim Harbaugh. I get the impression that people respect Jim Harbaugh. So, the problems will get fixed.

Greg Manusky on the other hand, had five years experience as a linebackers coach before we hired him as defensive coordinator. That's it... no other coaching experience.

We'll see how things work out. I'm excited about our potential on defense. Vic Fangio runs Dom Caper's scheme, but he also spent the four years before Stanford as "special assistant to head coach" with the Ravens... while Rex Ryan was running the defense for two of them. I'm sure he's learned some new tricks.

Good points, and I willingly admit that I am solely basing my judgment of Fangio on the statistics that well have now been widely scrutinized. I have never seen his defense play and am willing to consider that there are likely extenuating circumstances and reasons surrounding his track record.

Yes, it does assure me that we have several veteran coaches who could all possibly contribute ideas on how to better the team overall. I too hope that he's improved his capabilities as a defensive coordinators from his prior NFL stints. Where I differ is that I'm just not as optimistic about him.

-9fA
[ Edited by 9erfanAUS on Jan 19, 2011 at 3:39 PM ]
  • JRILL
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 47
Leavitt is going to choke and hit the OLBs if they don't start getting sacks and pressure on the QB, lol
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by NinerGold39:
great hire. he'll bring intensity on the sidelines for sure.


Wow, he looks like a child throwing a temper-tantrum... Did you see that pouting face?

just wait until he gets into Parys for missing a tackle

Parys won't be around for that to happen.
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Another theory could be that expansion teams tend to get older veterans initially. Therefore, the defense could perform well for a bit, but once the veterans drop off the cliff or retire, they would not perform as well. Unless they had a good front office providing the team with fresh talent.

For example, if you look at the Panthers when he was the DC (1995-1998), Kevin Greene, Lamar Lathon and Sam Mills were beasts for the first few years and then age caught up with them. Lathon retired in 98, Greene in 99, and Mills in 97.


Further, as someone who lives in Houston, I can tell you that the Texans did not have a good front office to start out and were not supplying the team with good defensive players while Fangio was there. They had numerous 1st round and beyond busts.

Not to mention Dom Capers probably had a big hand in the defense with the Texans and Panthers, since he was the HC at the time, and I wouldn't call Dom Capers a bad DC with Green Bay.

Ok, this justification is a little more believable. Good points

I do agree, that the only saving grace that Fangio has is that he was the coordinator for expansion teams and that he lead a revival at Stanford. However, it just doesn't give me the confidence that Fangio is a solid hire. His NFL experience just cries Jimmy Rae to me:


Nonetheless, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

-9fA

A major difference between Raye and Fangio is that Fangio actually drew a lot of interest from Dallas as a DC this year, unlike Raye whom no one else was considering as OC prior to the Niners hiring him. This means that the Niners aren't the only team to consider Fangio a relevant commodity as a coordinator.
[ Edited by RedWaltz24 on Jan 19, 2011 at 4:01 PM ]
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Good points, and I willingly admit that I am solely basing my judgment of Fangio on the statistics that well have now been widely scrutinized. I have never seen his defense play and am willing to consider that there are likely extenuating circumstances and reasons surrounding his track record.

Yes, it does assure me that we have several veteran coaches who could all possibly contribute ideas on how to better the team overall. I too hope that he's improved his capabilities as a defensive coordinators from his prior NFL stints. Where I differ is that I'm just not as optimistic about him.

-9fA

I'm excited about the possibilities. I understand the lack of optimism.
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Complicated. Very complicated.

For example, in Carolina he had an old veteran defense that either moved on or retired.

Outside that example, I haven't looked closely at the statistics.

However, total yardage allowed is not the only factor or even the best factor in determining the performance of a defense.

For example, our defense performed terribly this season, except against the run. Bad pass defense, poor tackling, poor pass rush, poor turnovers, poor discipline in general. Yet, we were middle of the pack in total yards because of our run defense, which we emphasized in our scheme.

You really need to have watched the games and followed the team in order to get a complete picture. You also need to have a good understanding of defensive schemes... coverages, gap assignments,... etc.

That said, there's nothing wrong with being worried. Those statistics do look bad.

We won't know for sure until we get to watch a couple seasons.

If you want something to help you feel a little better, it looks to me like we've got an experienced defensive coaching staff. Every position coach has been a defensive coordinator or head coach. If Fangio or anyone else is doing something that is hurting the team, there will be many experienced minds to point it out to Jim Harbaugh. I get the impression that people respect Jim Harbaugh. So, the problems will get fixed.

Greg Manusky on the other hand, had five years experience as a linebackers coach before we hired him as defensive coordinator. That's it... no other coaching experience.

We'll see how things work out. I'm excited about our potential on defense. Vic Fangio runs Dom Caper's scheme, but he also spent the four years before Stanford as "special assistant to head coach" with the Ravens... while Rex Ryan was running the defense for two of them. I'm sure he's learned some new tricks.

Good points, and I willingly admit that I am solely basing my judgment of Fangio on the statistics that well have now been widely scrutinized. I have never seen his defense play and am willing to consider that there are likely extenuating circumstances and reasons surrounding his track record.

Yes, it does assure me that we have several veteran coaches who could all possibly contribute ideas on how to better the team overall. I too hope that he's improved his capabilities as a defensive coordinators from his prior NFL stints. Where I differ is that I'm just not as optimistic about him.

-9fA

I understand not jumping for joy about Fangio, but I think him along with Leavitt and Donatell have the makings of being a baller defensive staff.

The statistics around Fangio can be skewed for all sorts of reasons from HC influence to crappy talent, but at least he is known for a creative blitzing defense. I'd rather us lose the game by trying to attack the QB than lose the game playing prevent/base and watching the opponent march down the field and score in the final two minutes. Plus there are coaches like Capers and Bellicheck that have done amazing jobs with their second chances.

With Leavitt, he will bring intensity but more importantly he will bring fundamentals and a knowledge of the big picture. He has experience as a DC and will not only make sure the LB's are fundamentally sound but that they know the big picture of what the defense is trying to accomplish. Last year it looked like each defensive position group knew their job (except the secondary) but had no clue what any of the other defensive position groups were doing.

That doesn't cut it in today's league were things aren't always gonna go as planned. Players need to know where their help is coming from or have the ability to free lance and help out if a player slips. The top defenses in the league work as one cohesive unit, where ours looked like 4 different groups focusing only on their own responsibilities. There were countless times I saw players sitting in a soft zone with no one within 20 yards, and they just sat there taking themselves out of the play. It's crap, at least now we have a staff where almost each position coach has DC experience.

Manusky was okay, but his "mirror" defense idea seemed outdated. Top D's put their playmakers all around the field to make plays (ie: mathews, woodson, troy p.), not play base and hope one side is as good as the other, offenses exploited that.
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Chief:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Chief:
Him and Vic Fangio are both scrubs...

I love the Jim Harbaugh hire but his defensive staff is growing into a group of failures.

Before we've played one game.

Looking at the history and reading about both of these guys, yes before we have played a game. We let a defensive cord go that kept our team in the top half of the league with the worst offense ever on a 49ers roster. We hired Fangio who has ruined 3 defenses in the NFL, all of them being in the bottom 5 before getting fired all three times. Jim Leavitt is not as bad, his only real downside is he punched a player.. I can understand emotion getting the best of a two men and fist flying. I just used this chance to vent about Fangio, who will ruin our defense and have us in the bottom of the league 2 yeras from now.

I wanted to keep manusky as well, but I'm not going to call Fangio a failure before we played any games.

One good argument against Fangio's track record is the guy was DC for two expansion franchises. Those teams were building from scratch.

exactly, how can you expect top 5 defenses with expansion teams and crappy players

How does that argument work? He started out well and then took his defense into the ground all 3 times.

The argument about lack of player talent would only hold water if he never got out of the dungeon. Outside of Stanford, he has NEVER improved a defense.

-9fA


He started out well in Carolina because he had Kevin Greene and Lamar Lathan. The rest of that team was filled with aging guys well past their prime. I could see if that defense went on to do something after he left, but they didn't. The same applies to the Texans. Expansion franchise and that defense had even less talent than Carolina. Not many people can even name a defensive player from the Texans until they drafted Mario Williams. In Indianapolis you have the same situation, except they weren't an expansion team. Who can name a defensive player for the Colts before they drafted Dwight Freeney? Those defenses didn't do much outside of his Carolina years (and I remember those defenses being ok most of those years), but he didn't have much to work either either. Greg Manusky on the other hand has had some pretty exceptional talent to work with and this team has spent the majority of its dollars on defense since Mike Nolan took over. Manusky had much better players than Fangio and couldn 't do much with them.


Also, here are the defensive stats from his years in Carolina

Yards Points
1995 7th 8th
1996 10th 2nd
1997 15th 13th
1998 30th 27th

Here are the defensive stats from Manusky's years in San Francisco

Yards Points
2007 25th 20th
2008 13th 23rd
2009 15th 4th
2010 13th 16th


With far less talent, Fangio did more, with an expansion team.
Originally posted by GORO:
I have reservations about Fangio but Leavitt and the DB coach from denver are good hires plus Tomsula may help him improve the D.



Yeah the Fangio hire was ok. I think a safe, solid hire. But the rest of the defensive coach staff is really good. Ed Donatell is a top of the line DB's coach and may have a better DC resume than Fangio. Jim Leavitt is a outstanding coach and we are lucky to have him as LB's coach, IMO. Jim Tomsula is gaining the reputation as one of the best D-Line coaches in the NFL. Very good defensive staff we have and the offensive staff is just as good, IMO
this guy is a good coach but a nutcase. a player might end up hitting him this time, lol.
Originally posted by KD49ers:
this guy is a good coach but a nutcase. a player might end up hitting him this time, lol.

LOL YEAH GOOD LUCK IF HE TAKES A SWING AT WILLIS OR SPIKES, THEY AIN`T NO COLLEGE PUNKS
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by NinerGold39:
great hire. he'll bring intensity on the sidelines for sure.


Wow, he looks like a child throwing a temper-tantrum... Did you see that pouting face?

Well, him too...

Originally posted by Antix:
We went from havin a LBers coach be our HC to a HC bein our LBers coach. Thats a positive progression.

I like that . . . .
Originally posted by 49erThrowback:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by NinerGold39:
great hire. he'll bring intensity on the sidelines for sure.


Wow, he looks like a child throwing a temper-tantrum... Did you see that pouting face?

Well, him too...


LOL! @ Cowher