Jim Leavitt hired as new Linebackers Coach

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Chief:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Chief:
Him and Vic Fangio are both scrubs...

I love the Jim Harbaugh hire but his defensive staff is growing into a group of failures.

Before we've played one game.

Looking at the history and reading about both of these guys, yes before we have played a game. We let a defensive cord go that kept our team in the top half of the league with the worst offense ever on a 49ers roster. We hired Fangio who has ruined 3 defenses in the NFL, all of them being in the bottom 5 before getting fired all three times. Jim Leavitt is not as bad, his only real downside is he punched a player.. I can understand emotion getting the best of a two men and fist flying. I just used this chance to vent about Fangio, who will ruin our defense and have us in the bottom of the league 2 yeras from now.

I wanted to keep manusky as well, but I'm not going to call Fangio a failure before we played any games.

One good argument against Fangio's track record is the guy was DC for two expansion franchises. Those teams were building from scratch.

exactly, how can you expect top 5 defenses with expansion teams and crappy players

How does that argument work? He started out well and then took his defense into the ground all 3 times.

The argument about lack of player talent would only hold water if he never got out of the dungeon. Outside of Stanford, he has NEVER improved a defense.

-9fA

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
My only worry is that he will get some offers to be a College Football Head Coach again as soon as next year.

Same, or even some coordinator position.

-9fA

That possibility doesn't bug me much when it comes to posiiton coaches. I think he's probably done at the college level for quite a while due to the circumstances of his dismissal and it should be at least 2 or 3 years before he's ready to climb the NFL ladder.

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
My only worry is that he will get some offers to be a College Football Head Coach again as soon as next year.

We will never be able to replace him as a LB coach.

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
My only worry is that he will get some offers to be a College Football Head Coach again as soon as next year.

Are you worried that our LB's will forget what he taught them? It's not like he is calling plays. As far as college jobs, no college will touch him right now for atleast a few years, they don't want a guy going on recruting trips and talking to parents. the guy just choked a kid.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Chief:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Chief:
Him and Vic Fangio are both scrubs...

I love the Jim Harbaugh hire but his defensive staff is growing into a group of failures.

Before we've played one game.

Looking at the history and reading about both of these guys, yes before we have played a game. We let a defensive cord go that kept our team in the top half of the league with the worst offense ever on a 49ers roster. We hired Fangio who has ruined 3 defenses in the NFL, all of them being in the bottom 5 before getting fired all three times. Jim Leavitt is not as bad, his only real downside is he punched a player.. I can understand emotion getting the best of a two men and fist flying. I just used this chance to vent about Fangio, who will ruin our defense and have us in the bottom of the league 2 yeras from now.

I wanted to keep manusky as well, but I'm not going to call Fangio a failure before we played any games.

One good argument against Fangio's track record is the guy was DC for two expansion franchises. Those teams were building from scratch.

exactly, how can you expect top 5 defenses with expansion teams and crappy players

How does that argument work? He started out well and then took his defense into the ground all 3 times.

The argument about lack of player talent would only hold water if he never got out of the dungeon. Outside of Stanford, he has NEVER improved a defense.

-9fA

Another theory could be that expansion teams tend to get older veterans initially. Therefore, the defense could perform well for a bit, but once the veterans drop off the cliff or retire, they would not perform as well. Unless they had a good front office providing the team with fresh talent.

For example, if you look at the Panthers when he was the DC (1995-1998), Kevin Greene, Lamar Lathon and Sam Mills were beasts for the first few years and then age caught up with them. Lathon retired in 98, Greene in 99, and Mills in 97.


Further, as someone who lives in Houston, I can tell you that the Texans did not have a good front office to start out and were not supplying the team with good defensive players while Fangio was there. They had numerous 1st round and beyond busts.

Not to mention Dom Capers probably had a big hand in the defense with the Texans and Panthers, since he was the HC at the time, and I wouldn't call Dom Capers a bad DC with Green Bay.

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Another theory could be that expansion teams tend to get older veterans initially. Therefore, the defense could perform well for a bit, but once the veterans drop off the cliff or retire, they would not perform as well. Unless they had a good front office providing the team with fresh talent.

For example, if you look at the Panthers when he was the DC (1995-1998), Kevin Greene, Lamar Lathon and Sam Mills were beasts for the first few years and then age caught up with them. Lathon retired in 98, Greene in 99, and Mills in 97.


Further, as someone who lives in Houston, I can tell you that the Texans did not have a good front office to start out and were not supplying the team with good defensive players while Fangio was there. They had numerous 1st round and beyond busts.

Not to mention Dom Capers probably had a big hand in the defense with the Texans and Panthers, since he was the HC at the time, and I wouldn't call Dom Capers a bad DC with Green Bay.

Ok, this justification is a little more believable. Good points

I do agree, that the only saving grace that Fangio has is that he was the coordinator for expansion teams and that he lead a revival at Stanford. However, it just doesn't give me the confidence that Fangio is a solid hire. His NFL experience just cries Jimmy Rae to me:


Nonetheless, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

-9fA

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
My only worry is that he will get some offers to be a College Football Head Coach again as soon as next year.

Same, or even some coordinator position.

-9fA

That possibility doesn't bug me much when it comes to posiiton coaches. I think he's probably done at the college level for quite a while due to the circumstances of his dismissal and it should be at least 2 or 3 years before he's ready to climb the NFL ladder.

While true, with just all the flux that we've had over the course of the past few years, a bit of stability around this organization would be nice. It's a good hire, and you make a good point about his improbable return to the college scene.

-9fA

List of South Florida Bulls in National Football League (10)

* Nate Allen - Safety, Philadelphia Eagles
* Mike Jenkins - Cornerback, Dallas Cowboys
* Tyrone McKenzie - Linebacker, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
* Carlton Mitchell - Wide Receiver, Cleveland Browns
* Kawika Mitchell - Linebacker, New Orleans Saints
* Jerome Murphy - Cornerback, St. Louis Rams
* Stephen Nicholas - Linebacker, Atlanta Falcons
* Jason Pierre-Paul - Defensive End, New York Giants
* George Selvie - Defensive End, St. Louis Rams
* Kion Wilson - Linebacker, San Diego Chargers

link

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Chief:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Chief:
Him and Vic Fangio are both scrubs...

I love the Jim Harbaugh hire but his defensive staff is growing into a group of failures.

Before we've played one game.

Looking at the history and reading about both of these guys, yes before we have played a game. We let a defensive cord go that kept our team in the top half of the league with the worst offense ever on a 49ers roster. We hired Fangio who has ruined 3 defenses in the NFL, all of them being in the bottom 5 before getting fired all three times. Jim Leavitt is not as bad, his only real downside is he punched a player.. I can understand emotion getting the best of a two men and fist flying. I just used this chance to vent about Fangio, who will ruin our defense and have us in the bottom of the league 2 yeras from now.

I wanted to keep manusky as well, but I'm not going to call Fangio a failure before we played any games.

One good argument against Fangio's track record is the guy was DC for two expansion franchises. Those teams were building from scratch.

exactly, how can you expect top 5 defenses with expansion teams and crappy players

How does that argument work? He started out well and then took his defense into the ground all 3 times.

The argument about lack of player talent would only hold water if he never got out of the dungeon. Outside of Stanford, he has NEVER improved a defense.

-9fA

Complicated. Very complicated.

For example, in Carolina he had an old veteran defense that either moved on or retired.

Outside that example, I haven't looked closely at the statistics.

However, total yardage allowed is not the only factor or even the best factor in determining the performance of a defense.

For example, our defense performed terribly this season, except against the run. Bad pass defense, poor tackling, poor pass rush, poor turnovers, poor discipline in general. Yet, we were middle of the pack in total yards because of our run defense, which we emphasized in our scheme.

You really need to have watched the games and followed the team in order to get a complete picture. You also need to have a good understanding of defensive schemes... coverages, gap assignments,... etc.

That said, there's nothing wrong with being worried. Those statistics do look bad.

We won't know for sure until we get to watch a couple seasons.

If you want something to help you feel a little better, it looks to me like we've got an experienced defensive coaching staff. Every position coach has been a defensive coordinator or head coach. If Fangio or anyone else is doing something that is hurting the team, there will be many experienced minds to point it out to Jim Harbaugh. I get the impression that people respect Jim Harbaugh. So, the problems will get fixed.

Greg Manusky on the other hand, had five years experience as a linebackers coach before we hired him as defensive coordinator. That's it... no other coaching experience.

We'll see how things work out. I'm excited about our potential on defense. Vic Fangio runs Dom Caper's scheme, but he also spent the four years before Stanford as "special assistant to head coach" with the Ravens... while Rex Ryan was running the defense for two of them. I'm sure he's learned some new tricks.

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Chief:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Chief:
Him and Vic Fangio are both scrubs...

I love the Jim Harbaugh hire but his defensive staff is growing into a group of failures.

Before we've played one game.

Looking at the history and reading about both of these guys, yes before we have played a game. We let a defensive cord go that kept our team in the top half of the league with the worst offense ever on a 49ers roster. We hired Fangio who has ruined 3 defenses in the NFL, all of them being in the bottom 5 before getting fired all three times. Jim Leavitt is not as bad, his only real downside is he punched a player.. I can understand emotion getting the best of a two men and fist flying. I just used this chance to vent about Fangio, who will ruin our defense and have us in the bottom of the league 2 yeras from now.

I wanted to keep manusky as well, but I'm not going to call Fangio a failure before we played any games.

One good argument against Fangio's track record is the guy was DC for two expansion franchises. Those teams were building from scratch.

exactly, how can you expect top 5 defenses with expansion teams and crappy players

How does that argument work? He started out well and then took his defense into the ground all 3 times.

The argument about lack of player talent would only hold water if he never got out of the dungeon. Outside of Stanford, he has NEVER improved a defense.

-9fA

Another theory could be that expansion teams tend to get older veterans initially. Therefore, the defense could perform well for a bit, but once the veterans drop off the cliff or retire, they would not perform as well. Unless they had a good front office providing the team with fresh talent.

For example, if you look at the Panthers when he was the DC (1995-1998), Kevin Greene, Lamar Lathon and Sam Mills were beasts for the first few years and then age caught up with them. Lathon retired in 98, Greene in 99, and Mills in 97.


Further, as someone who lives in Houston, I can tell you that the Texans did not have a good front office to start out and were not supplying the team with good defensive players while Fangio was there. They had numerous 1st round and beyond busts.

Not to mention Dom Capers probably had a big hand in the defense with the Texans and Panthers, since he was the HC at the time, and I wouldn't call Dom Capers a bad DC with Green Bay.

Exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. When he took over the Colts back in 99 they improved from the # 29 to # 15 D. In Carolina as a franchise team they had the #7 D back in 95. Even in Texas he put together the #16 D in 02.

Also, this guy always finds work and his services seem to be in demand. I do have my concerns about his ability to develop CBs and Safeties; but, we have Ed Donatell for that... I, for one, am willing to give him a shot and see what he can do.

Originally posted by jreff22:

I have reservations about Fangio but Leavitt and the DB coach from denver are good hires plus Tomsula may help him improve the D.

We went from havin a LBers coach be our HC to a HC bein our LBers coach. Thats a positive progression.

Originally posted by Wodwo:
Complicated. Very complicated.

For example, in Carolina he had an old veteran defense that either moved on or retired.

Outside that example, I haven't looked closely at the statistics.

However, total yardage allowed is not the only factor or even the best factor in determining the performance of a defense.

For example, our defense performed terribly this season, except against the run. Bad pass defense, poor tackling, poor pass rush, poor turnovers, poor discipline in general. Yet, we were middle of the pack in total yards because of our run defense, which we emphasized in our scheme.

You really need to have watched the games and followed the team in order to get a complete picture. You also need to have a good understanding of defensive schemes... coverages, gap assignments,... etc.

That said, there's nothing wrong with being worried. Those statistics do look bad.

We won't know for sure until we get to watch a couple seasons.

If you want something to help you feel a little better, it looks to me like we've got an experienced defensive coaching staff. Every position coach has been a defensive coordinator or head coach. If Fangio or anyone else is doing something that is hurting the team, there will be many experienced minds to point it out to Jim Harbaugh. I get the impression that people respect Jim Harbaugh. So, the problems will get fixed.

Greg Manusky on the other hand, had five years experience as a linebackers coach before we hired him as defensive coordinator. That's it... no other coaching experience.

We'll see how things work out. I'm excited about our potential on defense. Vic Fangio runs Dom Caper's scheme, but he also spent the four years before Stanford as "special assistant to head coach" with the Ravens... while Rex Ryan was running the defense for two of them. I'm sure he's learned some new tricks.

Good points, and I willingly admit that I am solely basing my judgment of Fangio on the statistics that well have now been widely scrutinized. I have never seen his defense play and am willing to consider that there are likely extenuating circumstances and reasons surrounding his track record.

Yes, it does assure me that we have several veteran coaches who could all possibly contribute ideas on how to better the team overall. I too hope that he's improved his capabilities as a defensive coordinators from his prior NFL stints. Where I differ is that I'm just not as optimistic about him.

-9fA

Leavitt is going to choke and hit the OLBs if they don't start getting sacks and pressure on the QB, lol