Is Fangio really a better option than Manusky?

To better explain what Manusky had to deal with this year:

1) Michael Lewis quit rather than mentor a younger player
2) Goldshone had planter fasciitis all season which slowed him downs
3) Franklin missed all of training camp and it seemed to take 1/2 season for him to regain his form. Plus he is not a speedster anyhow...
4) Manny was down 4 sacks from year before, only 2.5. Harlson ony had 4. so very little help from the outside LBs. Laboy actually had 5.5 and played only a partial year so we can definitely upgrade. I trust with Baalke that we actually will as he now has the control over the 53 that Singletary had before.

I think we would have improved this year had Franklin not skipped camp and we had upgraded at OLB. Not to mention if Lewis hadn't of bailed on us when Goldshone was hurt

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
To better explain what Manusky had to deal with this year:

1) Michael Lewis quit rather than mentor a younger player
2) Goldshone had planter fasciitis all season which slowed him downs
3) Franklin missed all of training camp and it seemed to take 1/2 season for him to regain his form. Plus he is not a speedster anyhow...
4) Manny was down 4 sacks from year before, only 2.5. Harlson ony had 4. so very little help from the outside LBs. Laboy actually had 5.5 and played only a partial year so we can definitely upgrade. I trust with Baalke that we actually will as he now has the control over the 53 that Singletary had before.

I think we would have improved this year had Franklin not skipped camp and we had upgraded at OLB. Not to mention if Lewis hadn't of bailed on us when Goldshone was hurt

who is Goldshone?

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
To better explain what Manusky had to deal with this year:

1) Michael Lewis quit rather than mentor a younger player
2) Goldshone had planter fasciitis all season which slowed him downs3) Franklin missed all of training camp and it seemed to take 1/2 season for him to regain his form. Plus he is not a speedster anyhow...
4) Manny was down 4 sacks from year before, only 2.5. Harlson ony had 4. so very little help from the outside LBs. Laboy actually had 5.5 and played only a partial year so we can definitely upgrade. I trust with Baalke that we actually will as he now has the control over the 53 that Singletary had before.

I think we would have improved this year had Franklin not skipped camp and we had upgraded at OLB. Not to mention if Lewis hadn't of bailed on us when Goldshone was hurt

Nice post. That also helps explain why Goldson was getting burned all season...

Originally posted by NCommand:
I think it's a moot point b/c Manusky will be gone soon anyhow. The, which came first the chicken or the egg-question, I have been asking for quite some time myself. Was it the players or was it the scheme/philosophy (e.g. coach).

But Manusky has been here since day one, given tons of top FA’s, used many high draft picks for the defense and has failed our expectations esp. this year.

The 13th ranked defense, no real fan would buy let alone the 7th ranked against the run. I think where Manusky failed in all these years was developing the key play-makers at the key positions and growing in his schemes/philosophy ala a Jets defense.

Manusky never developed a true NT or pass rushing play-making OLB’s and he certainly never developed a scheme that struck fear in the opposition (quite the opposite actually). Let’s not forget, this was an undisciplined defense that made one bone-headed play after another, we saw their practice videos (you play like you practice, right), never seemed to learn from its mistakes (see poor coverage in the middle of the field and screens and in clutch situations) and made just about every NFL team looks like the World Champion Saints in the passing game.

Was it the players or the coach? Personally, I never felt he played to the strengths of the players. Both Spencer and Clements are two of your more physical corners who were always playing 15 yards off WR’s in space. Mays, Goldson and Smith are players that play best in the box, blitzing and acting as another LB (ala Michael Lewis), the TED was used as a defensive FB and Willis was rarely used to blitz and play down hill. In addition, we HAD plenty of pass rushers on the team over the years but were relegated to predictable “specialist” roles whereby alleviating the unpredictability of the pass rush. At the end of the day, even Justin Smith was used in a role that would best suit him on a 4-man line whereby teams had to single-block him. It seems none of our players were put in a position to be the most successful. It was a very vanilla 3-4 defense that was extremely predictable by its personnel packages alone, lent itself to be beat slowly by not getting off the field and never making plays and preached conservative esp. when it mattered the most. While the responsibility also falls on the players we’ve seen many players on our team go to teams with a better scheme that utilizes their talents better.

Manusky had more years than Nolan/Singletary combined to produce a top 5 defense and leaves this team with the same predicament as when he left. That should be the final point made here.

Will Fangio be better? In the NFL today if you run a 3-4 with the mindset of attacking and dictating the offense and forcing the offense to beat you, you will do well. Manusky’s style of defense is best served at the college level IMHO. So while the answer may be “both” to the chicken or the egg question, I think we’re all ready to see a defense that has hatched it’s chicken by now and is ready to run around aggressively, even if its head is cut off!

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
I think the defense looked great in week 17 when Sing was finally gone

You mean when the Cardinals laid down and allowed us to steamroll them in order to get the better draft pick?

Perhaps you forgot about the 2-headed joke they played at QB.

i'd prefer manuskk.. he's better at the pro level in my opinion. he's already getting HC consideration.. but what ever.. he probably wont be around much longer bcus of that, and JH knows his Stanford DC better.. so what ever, both ends weigh the same??

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
To better explain what Manusky had to deal with this year:

1) Michael Lewis quit rather than mentor a younger player
2) Goldshone had planter fasciitis all season which slowed him downs
3) Franklin missed all of training camp and it seemed to take 1/2 season for him to regain his form. Plus he is not a speedster anyhow...
4) Manny was down 4 sacks from year before, only 2.5. Harlson ony had 4. so very little help from the outside LBs. Laboy actually had 5.5 and played only a partial year so we can definitely upgrade. I trust with Baalke that we actually will as he now has the control over the 53 that Singletary had before.

I think we would have improved this year had Franklin not skipped camp and we had upgraded at OLB. Not to mention if Lewis hadn't of bailed on us when Goldshone was hurt

who is Goldshone?

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
To better explain what Manusky had to deal with this year:

1) Michael Lewis quit rather than mentor a younger player
2) Goldshone had planter fasciitis all season which slowed him downs
3) Franklin missed all of training camp and it seemed to take 1/2 season for him to regain his form. Plus he is not a speedster anyhow...
4) Manny was down 4 sacks from year before, only 2.5. Harlson ony had 4. so very little help from the outside LBs. Laboy actually had 5.5 and played only a partial year so we can definitely upgrade. I trust with Baalke that we actually will as he now has the control over the 53 that Singletary had before.

I think we would have improved this year had Franklin not skipped camp and we had upgraded at OLB. Not to mention if Lewis hadn't of bailed on us when Goldshone was hurt

who is Goldshone?

lol

Fangio is comparable to Manusky. I think Harbaugh knows this and sees Manusky as a holdover from the past that fans do not want to remember. That is why I think he keeps those minor assistant coaches like Solari and Rathman rather than Johnson or Manusky because he wants to make this team his. Rightfully so in my opinion and I trust him to make the best decisions for this team.

Originally posted by YOUNGster08:
Fangio is comparable to Manusky. I think Harbaugh knows this and sees Manusky as a holdover from the past that fans do not want to remember. That is why I think he keeps those minor assistant coaches like Solari and Rathman rather than Johnson or Manusky because he wants to make this team his. Rightfully so in my opinion and I trust him to make the best decisions for this team.

At the very least, Fangio will be a veteran coach that can help Harbaugh transition to the pro level.

I think Manusky defense has been an underachieving unit. I believe its time for a change Vic Fangio runs a 3-4 like dom capers DC packers. The most important aspect of a 3-4 defense to me is the unpredictable blitzing. Sacks and hurries are the trade mark of good 3-4 defenses like the steelers.The 49ers have been running a 3-4 but the pressure has been missing we have not had one player with over 10 sacks since Andre Carter left for the Redskins. Munusky also plays soft zone coverage rarely does he play man to man bump and run and from what i hear Vic Fangio does bring pressure and play man to man bump and run coverage which i prefer. The 49ers made every qb we played look like world beaters with the exception being raiders qb jason campbell and cardinals qb's derek anderson and skleton. The reason our pass defense was so bad was no pressure and bad coverage or bad scheme I hate zone. Good defenses like Jets leave their CB in one on one coverage like revis island. Also Deion Sanders used to play man coverage when he was with the 49ers in 94 all we did was win a superbowl that year.

Quote:

SI_JimTrotter Jim Trotter

greg manusky is a hot d-coord commodity. az, dallas and sd all contacting him. i put my money on him winding up in sd.

Quote:
Cardschatter Darren Urban

by espn_nfcwest

Greg Manusky in the building now interviewing with coach Ken Whisenhunt and Cards for vacant defensive coordinator position.

I don't know if he's a better option or not but I have a decent level of respect for Manusky. If he had better pass rushers to work with, I think he'd be a dominant DC.

The biggest downside to Manusky, IMO, is that he's not likely to be a DC for long before he's hired as a HC. The league is definitely starting to take notice. If we have a monster year in the next two years, Manusky will be gone. Fangio might be more likely to stay long term.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Quote:

SI_JimTrotter Jim Trotter

greg manusky is a hot d-coord commodity. az, dallas and sd all contacting him. i put my money on him winding up in sd.

Quote:
Cardschatter Darren Urban

by espn_nfcwest

Greg Manusky in the building now interviewing with coach Ken Whisenhunt and Cards for vacant defensive coordinator position.

LOL my heart just raced there for a second... but then I remembered Jimmy Raye isn't gonna be our offensive coordinator next season.

To be fair, Manusky was a few players short from having a consistently good defense. Aside from Justin Smith, the DL's avg at best. Pass rushers were inconsistent. Secondary sprang way too many leaks. Upgrades are needed at LDE, NT, pass rush, CB and S. If Goldson's supposedly the best S we have, they're in trouble. If they re-sign him, it should be at SS, not FS. Maybe they can develop Mays to be the FS. They need to do something w/Clements. They need a real shutdown CB. If either Manusky or Fangio get those things done, we could have a very good D.