Is Fangio really a better option than Manusky?

We won't know who's better till the season starts, but at least they run similiar defenses. By all accounts, it looks like Manusky will be out the door anyday now, since he's been given permission to interview w/ a lot of other teams. I would rather he end up outside the division though... maybe SD.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
To be fair, Manusky was a few players short from having a consistently good defense. Aside from Justin Smith, the DL's avg at best. Pass rushers were inconsistent. Secondary sprang way too many leaks. Upgrades are needed at LDE, NT, pass rush, CB and S. If Goldson's supposedly the best S we have, they're in trouble. If they re-sign him, it should be at SS, not FS. Maybe they can develop Mays to be the FS. They need to do something w/Clements. They need a real shutdown CB. If either Manusky or Fangio get those things done, we could have a very good D.

i think we're aware our D needs upgrades but i was tired of the lazy zone coverage play after play after play, our D was pretty predictable at points

i really have to say yes he is. i have always like manusky mostly due to the fact he was the best DC we have had in 7 plus years. but he was really unimaginative. very basic on the press and rush. Plus i never was a big fan of playing 10 YARDS OFF THE LOS that drove me nuts more then anything.
I hear zoners defending him saying it was Sings defensive vision. i dont think that to be true and if it was true then I guess Nolan shared the same vision.
We need a New DC, Fangio would be better.

For those of you who keep saying Manusky didn't have the two key pass rushing play making OLB's and NT and the secondary sucked after what 4, 5 years, why?

Did Nolan/Singletary get a free pass for Alex Smith? The bottom line is this franchise went out and bought Justin Smith, Michael Lewis, Nate Clements, paid big money to the aforementioned as well as Sopoaga and Franklin ad Spencer, then drafted Lawson, (who's that guy in Seattle again? - haha) and Mays, developed Goldson, brought in Harris and Bly and TBC etc. and he STILL couldn't develop players, esp. key players at the key postions and he certainly didn't outcoach many teams.

I just don't think he should get the same pass others were cruficied for b/c it was the better unit of the three.

Originally posted by NCommand:
For those of you who keep saying Manusky didn't have the two key pass rushing play making OLB's and NT and the secondary sucked after what 4, 5 years, why?

Did Nolan/Singletary get a free pass for Alex Smith? The bottom line is this franchise went out and bought Justin Smith, Michael Lewis, Nate Clements, paid big money to the aforementioned as well as Sopoaga and Franklin ad Spencer, then drafted Lawson, (who's that guy in Seattle again? - haha) and Mays, developed Goldson, brought in Harris and Bly and TBC etc. and he STILL couldn't develop players, esp. key players at the key postions and he certainly didn't outcoach many teams.

I just don't think he should get the same pass others were cruficied for b/c it was the better unit of the three.

i very much agree with you here. we have some very good players in the front 7 and still no Pass Rush.

There is a reason every team wants Manusky now. He is a very good DC. Look at where Fangio's defenses were ranked in his first year compared to his last year with NFL teams. They always have gotten worse. Manusky has made this defense way better than it was when he got it. For some reason people don't like Manusky and just want Fangio because he's not Manusky.

the grass is always greener to these dudes when it is obvious that Fangio straight up kills D's, on the NFL level at least.

Originally posted by Draftology:
There is a reason every team wants Manusky now. He is a very good DC. Look at where Fangio's defenses were ranked in his first year compared to his last year with NFL teams. They always have gotten worse. Manusky has made this defense way better than it was when he got it. For some reason people don't like Manusky and just want Fangio because he's not Manusky.

I agree. I have a very bad feeling that we will regret not holding on to him very soon. The roles will reverse and our Offense will improve into top-15 form, but our Defense will regress into the bottom half of the league.

Overall Defense the last 6 years:

2010: 13th overall
2009: 15th overall
2008: 13th overall
2007: 25th overall (still under Nolan regime)
2006: 26th overall
2005: 32nd overall

I dont know about you guys, but there is an obvious turnover after he took over in 2007. I also believe the jump from 07' to 08' was when Nolan stopped tinkering with the Defense.

Also keep in mind that this was top 15 with an offense that didn't give them much of a break!

I hope I'm wrong, but this does not look good.

Meh, that article doesn't mean too much. I just skimmed throught it and looked at the numbers, but did it even say what exactly the rankings were for? I read another one recently and it showed how effective Vic was at improving a defense in his first season. The article used scoring defense and turnovers to figure it's stats. Each team saw dramatic improvements when he came aboard.

He was brought in to repair Stanford's 90th ranked defense (4-3 scheme), where they went 8-5 last season. He switched to the 3-4 to take advantage of his personnel's strengths and they played a more aggressive scheme. They improved to 12th in the nation (prior to Orange Bowl) and finished the season 13-1.

He's had plenty of success and he's seems to favor an attacking style defense. I'm excited for him to join the team. I like Manusky, but I'm tired of how conservative he is in coverage.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by jimmythegreekjr:

Originally posted by Shaj:
I'm more worried that we let Manusky go and Fangio takes some other job in the NFL or as the HC of Stanford (if offered to him).

Let Manusky go. Please.

This could be a "be careful what you ask for", like when we let Mooch go. He wasn't the greatest, but we've gone downhill ever since he left. If we let Mausky go AND Fangio gets a job elsewhere, my sense is we're screwed...

That's a good point. We can do a whole lot worse than Manusky. We can do a little better as well, but I do feel that if Manusky had better players that he would be better.

-9fA

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by Draftology:
There is a reason every team wants Manusky now. He is a very good DC. Look at where Fangio's defenses were ranked in his first year compared to his last year with NFL teams. They always have gotten worse. Manusky has made this defense way better than it was when he got it. For some reason people don't like Manusky and just want Fangio because he's not Manusky.

I agree. I have a very bad feeling that we will regret not holding on to him very soon. The roles will reverse and our Offense will improve into top-15 form, but our Defense will regress into the bottom half of the league.

Overall Defense the last 6 years:

2010: 13th overall
2009: 15th overall
2008: 13th overall
2007: 25th overall (still under Nolan regime)
2006: 26th overall
2005: 32nd overall

I dont know about you guys, but there is an obvious turnover after he took over in 2007. I also believe the jump from 07' to 08' was when Nolan stopped tinkering with the Defense.

Also keep in mind that this was top 15 with an offense that didn't give them much of a break!

I hope I'm wrong, but this does not look good.

good post.

Originally posted by NCommand:
For those of you who keep saying Manusky didn't have the two key pass rushing play making OLB's and NT and the secondary sucked after what 4, 5 years, why?

Did Nolan/Singletary get a free pass for Alex Smith? The bottom line is this franchise went out and bought Justin Smith, Michael Lewis, Nate Clements, paid big money to the aforementioned as well as Sopoaga and Franklin ad Spencer, then drafted Lawson, (who's that guy in Seattle again? - haha) and Mays, developed Goldson, brought in Harris and Bly and TBC etc. and he STILL couldn't develop players, esp. key players at the key postions and he certainly didn't outcoach many teams.

I just don't think he should get the same pass others were cruficied for b/c it was the better unit of the three.

Good post

Originally posted by zeppfan1:

Originally posted by NCommand:
For those of you who keep saying Manusky didn't have the two key pass rushing play making OLB's and NT and the secondary sucked after what 4, 5 years, why?

Did Nolan/Singletary get a free pass for Alex Smith? The bottom line is this franchise went out and bought Justin Smith, Michael Lewis, Nate Clements, paid big money to the aforementioned as well as Sopoaga and Franklin ad Spencer, then drafted Lawson, (who's that guy in Seattle again? - haha) and Mays, developed Goldson, brought in Harris and Bly and TBC etc. and he STILL couldn't develop players, esp. key players at the key postions and he certainly didn't outcoach many teams.

I just don't think he should get the same pass others were cruficied for b/c it was the better unit of the three.

Good post

Justin Smith is playing the best football of his career. Lewis was benched in Philly and we got some good use out of him. Clements was brought in to fill a huge void. We just overrpaid for him. Lawson is developing about as expected. He's excelled in certain area and has struggled shedding blocks. Goldson was a mid-late round pick, who outplayed his rookie salary. Franklin was buried on the depth chart in Baltimore and developed into one of the better NTs in the league. Sopoaga and Spencer are average and might not start for other teams. Walt Harris was just a random vet, lucky to find a roster spot and became a stud for us. Takeo had probably the best season of his career as well...

I'd say he's gotten plenty out of the players he's had to work with. His crutch has been his lack of talent in the secondary. That's largely a personnel issue, IMO.

Fangio vs Manusky in a fight to the death, winner gets the DC job.

Originally posted by susweel:
Fangio vs Manusky in a fight to the death, winner gets the DC job.

I'll put my money on Manusky.

Edit: YAY! 1,000 post!