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What kind of defense does Vic Fangio run? (Hint: You might have seen it today)

Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I wouldn't take those stats at face value. Manny is not a good pass rusher.

...except when he is actually rushing the passer... then he is pretty good. If you want to not believe a stat... don't believe the SACK stat. It's not like every snap... or even most or half of the snaps he was rushing. Fans will underrate him because of sacks or lack of them. GMs will line up to sign him to a big fat deal because he is a damned good football player who is playing a role and not complaining at all.
Originally posted by Micky6:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I wouldn't take those stats at face value. Manny is not a good pass rusher.

...except when he is actually rushing the passer... then he is pretty good. If you want to not believe a stat... don't believe the SACK stat. It's not like every snap... or even most or half of the snaps he was rushing. Fans will underrate him because of sacks or lack of them. GMs will line up to sign him to a big fat deal because he is a damned good football player who is playing a role and not complaining at all.

I agree. Manny created a lot of pressure on the QB this year. Our problem is that the coordination with the 1st and 2nd pressure wasn't very good.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I wouldn't take those stats at face value. Manny is not a good pass rusher.

lol so the guys that watched all the film and broke down the play per play stats are wrong, and the guy who just watched the 49ers on the couch and didnt remember Lawson getting that many sacks is right?

I've watched Manny every game just like any of those guys. He has no burst off the LOS to(Not a speed rusher) get around a tackle. He doesn't use his hands well to disengage a tackle and get to the QB. His strength is setting the edge against the run, not pass rushing and no one will convince me other wise.
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I wouldn't take those stats at face value. Manny is not a good pass rusher.

lol so the guys that watched all the film and broke down the play per play stats are wrong, and the guy who just watched the 49ers on the couch and didnt remember Lawson getting that many sacks is right?

I've watched Manny every game just like any of those guys. He has no burst off the LOS to(Not a speed rusher) get around a tackle. He doesn't use his hands well to disengage a tackle and get to the QB. His strength is setting the edge against the run, not pass rushing and no one will convince me other wise.

I am just glad that none of us couch GM is running this team. Myself included.

- 98
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Micky6:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I wouldn't take those stats at face value. Manny is not a good pass rusher.

...except when he is actually rushing the passer... then he is pretty good. If you want to not believe a stat... don't believe the SACK stat. It's not like every snap... or even most or half of the snaps he was rushing. Fans will underrate him because of sacks or lack of them. GMs will line up to sign him to a big fat deal because he is a damned good football player who is playing a role and not complaining at all.

I agree. Manny created a lot of pressure on the QB this year. Our problem is that the coordination with the 1st and 2nd pressure wasn't very good.

The guys who created the most pressure were Smith, Laboy and Brooks.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Shouldn't take too much into account the sliding Fangio defensive ranking, there were many factors that went into the results. It's what have he done lately. He improved Stanford's defense and had them playing well. His buddy Dom Capers is doing the same thing over at Greenbay after a lot of moving around from team to team or you can say 'failures'. I would love to have Fangio here.

There's a lot of difference between college ball and the NFL. Just because he did well at Stanford doesn't necessary mean it will transfer well in the NFL.

Many college players will be the first to tell you that the NFL is a totally different world.
There you have the cream of the crop and you're always going against the best of the drafts.
[ Edited by Kauaiguy on Jan 10, 2011 at 2:12 PM ]
Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Shouldn't take too much into account the sliding Fangio defensive ranking, there were many factors that went into the results. It's what have he done lately. He improved Stanford's defense and had them playing well. His buddy Dom Capers is doing the same thing over at Greenbay after a lot of moving around from team to team or you can say 'failures'. I would love to have Fangio here.

There's a lot of difference between college ball and the NFL. Just because he did well at Stanford doesn't necessary mean it will transfer well in the NFL.


Many college players will be the first to tell you that the NFL is a totally different world.
There you have the cream of the crop and you're always going against the best of the drafts.

This
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Micky6:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....

I wouldn't take those stats at face value. Manny is not a good pass rusher.

...except when he is actually rushing the passer... then he is pretty good. If you want to not believe a stat... don't believe the SACK stat. It's not like every snap... or even most or half of the snaps he was rushing. Fans will underrate him because of sacks or lack of them. GMs will line up to sign him to a big fat deal because he is a damned good football player who is playing a role and not complaining at all.

I agree. Manny created a lot of pressure on the QB this year. Our problem is that the coordination with the 1st and 2nd pressure wasn't very good.

The guys who created the most pressure were Smith, Laboy and Brooks.

Brooks didn't do much until he began getting more minutes. His up and down motivation should be of concern as to why he couldn't do that in shorter stints.

Manny created a lot of pressure to force the QB to step up a lot. One thing he is lacking is the change in direction when he rushes. He is good at heading in one direction at full speed and that has allowed him to get by rushers often to force the QB to shift. Justin Smith has applied pressure on his own numerous times which is why he's a probowler.

But for a 3-4, the OLB's need to produce more but Manny is not our weakest link on that.

Now factor in everything else Manny provides and I would rather replace the other OLB.
I hate to break the news to some of you guys, but Manny isn't a very good pass rusher. Never has been and it appears he never will be.

That said, if the Niners move to a 4-3 system I think Manny could be very successful as an OLB. He's great vs. the run and he can cover a TE,FB,RB etc.
Originally posted by AKfanster:
I hate to break the news to some of you guys, but Manny isn't a very good pass rusher. Never has been and it appears he never will be.

That said, if the Niners move to a 4-3 system I think Manny could be very successful as an OLB. He's great vs. the run and he can cover a TE,FB,RB etc.

Agree on that but compared to what we have at OLB, Manny should be retained.

Man, I hope Harbaugh sees that our DL apply a lot of pressure and we move to a 4-3.
Originally posted by zeppfan1:
Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Shouldn't take too much into account the sliding Fangio defensive ranking, there were many factors that went into the results. It's what have he done lately. He improved Stanford's defense and had them playing well. His buddy Dom Capers is doing the same thing over at Greenbay after a lot of moving around from team to team or you can say 'failures'. I would love to have Fangio here.

There's a lot of difference between college ball and the NFL. Just because he did well at Stanford doesn't necessary mean it will transfer well in the NFL.


Many college players will be the first to tell you that the NFL is a totally different world.
There you have the cream of the crop and you're always going against the best of the drafts.

This

Fangio was one of the original guys that uses the 3-4 like it is being use now in the NFL. He was using and implementing it while other guys were trying to learn what's new. I have no worry that Fangio will transition well back into the NFL. It'll take him one offseason of watching NFL films of teams we will face next year.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
I hate to break the news to some of you guys, but Manny isn't a very good pass rusher. Never has been and it appears he never will be.

That said, if the Niners move to a 4-3 system I think Manny could be very successful as an OLB. He's great vs. the run and he can cover a TE,FB,RB etc.

Agree on that but compared to what we have at OLB, Manny should be retained.

Man, I hope Harbaugh sees that our DL apply a lot of pressure and we move to a 4-3.


I agree that Manny should be retained, no doubt. The dude is a football player, no doubt. He just doesn't pass rush very well and that can hurt a 3-4 defense.

In regards to moving to a 4-3, I think that will depend on Franklin. If the Niners keep Franklin, either franchise tag or resign, the Niners should continue using the 3-4. If Franklin leaves then the Niners will be without a legit NT. If the Niners don't replace him with a valid NT, then the Niners SHOULD look at moving to a 4-3 a little closer.
I don't know if RJF can replace Franklin, but he didn't look so hot in limited playing time this season.
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
I hate to break the news to some of you guys, but Manny isn't a very good pass rusher. Never has been and it appears he never will be.

That said, if the Niners move to a 4-3 system I think Manny could be very successful as an OLB. He's great vs. the run and he can cover a TE,FB,RB etc.

Agree on that but compared to what we have at OLB, Manny should be retained.

Man, I hope Harbaugh sees that our DL apply a lot of pressure and we move to a 4-3.


I agree that Manny should be retained, no doubt. The dude is a football player, no doubt. He just doesn't pass rush very well and that can hurt a 3-4 defense.

In regards to moving to a 4-3, I think that will depend on Franklin. If the Niners keep Franklin, either franchise tag or resign, the Niners should continue using the 3-4. If Franklin leaves then the Niners will be without a legit NT. If the Niners don't replace him with a valid NT, then the Niners SHOULD look at moving to a 4-3 a little closer.
I don't know if RJF can replace Franklin, but he didn't look so hot in limited playing time this season.

I think Franklin would be great in a 4-3. We use him to shoot gaps as is which is why we really don't run a true 3-4 up front.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
I hate to break the news to some of you guys, but Manny isn't a very good pass rusher. Never has been and it appears he never will be.

That said, if the Niners move to a 4-3 system I think Manny could be very successful as an OLB. He's great vs. the run and he can cover a TE,FB,RB etc.

Agree on that but compared to what we have at OLB, Manny should be retained.

Man, I hope Harbaugh sees that our DL apply a lot of pressure and we move to a 4-3.


I agree that Manny should be retained, no doubt. The dude is a football player, no doubt. He just doesn't pass rush very well and that can hurt a 3-4 defense.

In regards to moving to a 4-3, I think that will depend on Franklin. If the Niners keep Franklin, either franchise tag or resign, the Niners should continue using the 3-4. If Franklin leaves then the Niners will be without a legit NT. If the Niners don't replace him with a valid NT, then the Niners SHOULD look at moving to a 4-3 a little closer.
I don't know if RJF can replace Franklin, but he didn't look so hot in limited playing time this season.

I think Franklin would be great in a 4-3. We use him to shoot gaps as is which is why we really don't run a true 3-4 up front.

A "true" 3-4? Either 1-gap or 2-gap, it's still a 3-4. The Niners just happen to use a 1 gap scheme, which has worked rather well IMO. The Niners haven't allowed a 100yd rusher in how long?
I assume what type of NT a defense is using will determine if they run a 1-gap or 2-gap.

I'm not really sure how Franklin would perform in a 4-3 defense. I assume if all he has to do is pick a gap and shoot.......then he'd be fine.
Can't easily evaluate the performance of our coaches because they had to coach as Singlecell dictated. Hopefully JH, Baalke, have realistic ways to evaluate the existing personnel and get the best available from everywhere.
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