i think hiring within was a mistake....nothing good has come from the FO ...... why would promoting a janitor to manager be any different? nothing against baalke...but i would have rather seen an outsider come in and try and redirect the FO and direct this team out of the path to football hell for another 10 years.
[ Edited by ninerfreak on Jan 5, 2011 at 11:32:56 ]
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Conspiracy Theory?
Jan 5, 2011 at 11:32 AM
- ninerfreak
- Veteran
- Posts: 5,354
Jan 5, 2011 at 11:33 AM
- midrdan
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,982
Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by excelsior:
Look at San Diego. Rivers is the second ranked QB in the league with a rating of 104. He is a "franchise QB." Yet the team did not make the playoffs.
In contrast, Sanchez of the Jets is 28th ranked with a 75 rating, but they are in the playoffs.
What is instructive here is that it is foolish to overlook the rest of the team. Trading the farm to get Luck would be a mistake because the draft choices given up to get him will leave unfilled holes in the roster. It will be those holes that will beat the team in various games and the fans will end up booing anyway.
You're not convincing me on this. I don't like exceptional examples. That's like using the Trent Dilfer BAL Ravens Superbowl as a template for "success" and we all know that it rarely happens.
Give me a top 5 QB and you can have one of the 5 worst QB's in the league and let us see who makes the playoffs more in 10 years.
Trent Dilfer literally opened the doors for all of the crap QB's out there and coaches who know nothing about offense and turned this league into the parity it is now: a bunch of crap QB's with a bunch of defensive-minded teams trying to catch the teams with the great QB's lighting up the scoreboard.
SB Champ 2009 - Brees
SB Champ 2008 - Roethlisberger
SB Champ 2007 - Manning
SB Champ 2006 - Manning
SB Champ 2005 - Roethlisberger
SB Champ 2004 - Brady
SB Champ 2003 - Brady
SB Champ 2002 - [b] Johnson
SB Champ 2001 - Brady
SB Champ 2000 - Dilfer
SB Champ 1999 - Warner
SB Champ 1998 - Elway
SB Champ 1997 - Elway
SB Champ 1996 - Favre
SB Champ 1995 - Aikman
SB Champ 1994 - Young
SB Champ 1993 - Aikman
SB Champ 1992 - Aikman
SB Champ 1991 - Rypien
SB Champ 1990 - Hostetler
SB Champ 1989 - Montana
SB Champ 1988 - Montana
17 of the past 22 Superbowls were won by a quarterback that is in the HOF or will likely end up in the HOF (Brady, P. Manning) or, minimally, was a top 5 QB during their prime (Warner, Brees, and Roethlisberger I put here). Of the 5 "other" SB winning QBs since 1988, one (Dilfer) had either the greatest or 2nd greatest defense of all time, one (Johnson) led a team with a great defense and a head coach that knew the other team's playbook, and one (E. Manning) beat a HOFer in Brady with a miraculous play at the end of the game.
It's not a coincidence that 78% of SBs since 1988 were won by a team with a great QB. If you don't have a great quarterback, you're banking on being that 1 in 5 shot. Good luck with that.
Jan 5, 2011 at 11:45 AM
- Joecool
- Veteran
- Posts: 70,984
Originally posted by midrdan:Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by excelsior:
Look at San Diego. Rivers is the second ranked QB in the league with a rating of 104. He is a "franchise QB." Yet the team did not make the playoffs.
In contrast, Sanchez of the Jets is 28th ranked with a 75 rating, but they are in the playoffs.
What is instructive here is that it is foolish to overlook the rest of the team. Trading the farm to get Luck would be a mistake because the draft choices given up to get him will leave unfilled holes in the roster. It will be those holes that will beat the team in various games and the fans will end up booing anyway.
You're not convincing me on this. I don't like exceptional examples. That's like using the Trent Dilfer BAL Ravens Superbowl as a template for "success" and we all know that it rarely happens.
Give me a top 5 QB and you can have one of the 5 worst QB's in the league and let us see who makes the playoffs more in 10 years.
Trent Dilfer literally opened the doors for all of the crap QB's out there and coaches who know nothing about offense and turned this league into the parity it is now: a bunch of crap QB's with a bunch of defensive-minded teams trying to catch the teams with the great QB's lighting up the scoreboard.
SB Champ 2009 - Brees
SB Champ 2008 - Roethlisberger
SB Champ 2007 - Manning
SB Champ 2006 - Manning
SB Champ 2005 - Roethlisberger
SB Champ 2004 - Brady
SB Champ 2003 - Brady
SB Champ 2002 - [b] Johnson
SB Champ 2001 - Brady
SB Champ 2000 - Dilfer
SB Champ 1999 - Warner
SB Champ 1998 - Elway
SB Champ 1997 - Elway
SB Champ 1996 - Favre
SB Champ 1995 - Aikman
SB Champ 1994 - Young
SB Champ 1993 - Aikman
SB Champ 1992 - Aikman
SB Champ 1991 - Rypien
SB Champ 1990 - Hostetler
SB Champ 1989 - Montana
SB Champ 1988 - Montana
17 of the past 22 Superbowls were won by a quarterback that is in the HOF or will likely end up in the HOF (Brady, P. Manning) or, minimally, was a top 5 QB during their prime (Warner, Brees, and Roethlisberger I put here). Of the 5 "other" SB winning QBs since 1988, one (Dilfer) had either the greatest or 2nd greatest defense of all time, one (Johnson) led a team with a great defense and a head coach that knew the other team's playbook, and one (E. Manning) beat a HOFer in Brady with a miraculous play at the end of the game.
It's not a coincidence that 78% of SBs since 1988 were won by a team with a great QB. If you don't have a great quarterback, you're banking on being that 1 in 5 shot. Good luck with that.
That BAL Ravens team lowered the standard for coaching and QB play for 10 years now. That team sparked the idea in GM's heads that all you need is to be able to run the ball and play good defense to win so they hire coaches with that mentality. THAT is why there is parity with little difference in 4-9 win teams jumping up and down from year to year between 6 wins and/or 9 wins.
Jan 5, 2011 at 12:45 PM
- Shemp
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 29,123
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Does anyone really believe that Jed had any intention of hiring anyone but Baalke? To me it was a charade all along, which brings me to my topic. [I've got way too much time on my hands]
My gambler's sense is telling me the HC decision has already been made and we are just doing the dance. Since it is against the rules about contacting people on teams who are still in some contention or upcoming game - it's been kept quiet.
Harbaugh - HC and we morgage the farm to get Luck.
Any other theories.
who are you and what have you done with Boast?
Jan 5, 2011 at 1:23 PM
- boast
- Hella Fame
- Posts: 149,575
Originally posted by Shaj:Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Does anyone really believe that Jed had any intention of hiring anyone but Baalke? To me it was a charade all along, which brings me to my topic. [I've got way too much time on my hands]
My gambler's sense is telling me the HC decision has already been made and we are just doing the dance. Since it is against the rules about contacting people on teams who are still in some contention or upcoming game - it's been kept quiet.
Harbaugh - HC and we morgage the farm to get Luck.
Any other theories.
who are you and what have you done with Boast?
c'mon now! i totally know how to spell mortgage.
Jan 5, 2011 at 1:29 PM
- SanDiego49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 47,967
It was a dog and pony show. They had their minds made up.
Jan 5, 2011 at 1:31 PM
- SanDiego49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 47,967
Originally posted by midrdan:Originally posted by zeppfan1:Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
No conspiracy theory IMO just the easy way out. If we get Harbaugh, it means only one thing in relation to Andrew Luck. Harbaugh was the guy who groomed Luck and made him the #1 QB prospect in the space of two short years. Will they give up the Farm (......get it.......the Farm.........Stanford) to get Luck? Not a chance. The Niners have too many other needs (CB, Pass Rusher, WR) to do that. The Niners are betting that Harbaugh is the right guy to do it again with whomever they draft this year (Locker, Ponder, etc).
I was waiting or someone to point that out
Of the three (Baalke, Harbaugh, and Luck) the only guy that is a must have is Luck. Scouts are basically saying that AT WORST he's the next Matt Ryan. There is no guarantee that Harbaugh can groom another Luck, as all of the other QB prospects this year have some serious flaws that take them out of Luck's class. And there is no guarantee that Baalke can draft the "right" players at our other positions of need. So yeah, give me the closest thing to a sure thing at the most important position in all of sports.
Still planning on getting him with the #7 pick huh? Madden football is cool...
Jan 5, 2011 at 1:32 PM
- boast
- Hella Fame
- Posts: 149,575
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
It was a dog and pony show. They had their minds made up.
MaioccoCSN Matt Maiocco
Tying up loose ends ... 49ers did hold GM phone interview with Falcons director of player personnel Les Snead before hiring Trent Baalke.
Jan 5, 2011 at 1:43 PM
- zillabeast
- Veteran
- Posts: 20,042
My theory is all deese ex-Bears are coming to SF to get Ditka's secret revenge.
Jan 5, 2011 at 1:46 PM
- Jiks
- Member
- Posts: 29,220
Originally posted by midrdan:Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by excelsior:
Look at San Diego. Rivers is the second ranked QB in the league with a rating of 104. He is a "franchise QB." Yet the team did not make the playoffs.
In contrast, Sanchez of the Jets is 28th ranked with a 75 rating, but they are in the playoffs.
What is instructive here is that it is foolish to overlook the rest of the team. Trading the farm to get Luck would be a mistake because the draft choices given up to get him will leave unfilled holes in the roster. It will be those holes that will beat the team in various games and the fans will end up booing anyway.
You're not convincing me on this. I don't like exceptional examples. That's like using the Trent Dilfer BAL Ravens Superbowl as a template for "success" and we all know that it rarely happens.
Give me a top 5 QB and you can have one of the 5 worst QB's in the league and let us see who makes the playoffs more in 10 years.
Trent Dilfer literally opened the doors for all of the crap QB's out there and coaches who know nothing about offense and turned this league into the parity it is now: a bunch of crap QB's with a bunch of defensive-minded teams trying to catch the teams with the great QB's lighting up the scoreboard.
SB Champ 2009 - Brees
SB Champ 2008 - Roethlisberger
SB Champ 2007 - Manning
SB Champ 2006 - Manning
SB Champ 2005 - Roethlisberger
SB Champ 2004 - Brady
SB Champ 2003 - Brady
SB Champ 2002 - [b] Johnson
SB Champ 2001 - Brady
SB Champ 2000 - Dilfer
SB Champ 1999 - Warner
SB Champ 1998 - Elway
SB Champ 1997 - Elway
SB Champ 1996 - Favre
SB Champ 1995 - Aikman
SB Champ 1994 - Young
SB Champ 1993 - Aikman
SB Champ 1992 - Aikman
SB Champ 1991 - Rypien
SB Champ 1990 - Hostetler
SB Champ 1989 - Montana
SB Champ 1988 - Montana
17 of the past 22 Superbowls were won by a quarterback that is in the HOF or will likely end up in the HOF (Brady, P. Manning) or, minimally, was a top 5 QB during their prime (Warner, Brees, and Roethlisberger I put here). Of the 5 "other" SB winning QBs since 1988, one (Dilfer) had either the greatest or 2nd greatest defense of all time, one (Johnson) led a team with a great defense and a head coach that knew the other team's playbook, and one (E. Manning) beat a HOFer in Brady with a miraculous play at the end of the game.
It's not a coincidence that 78% of SBs since 1988 were won by a team with a great QB. If you don't have a great quarterback, you're banking on being that 1 in 5 shot. Good luck with that.
SB Champ 2009 - Brees-Colston, Shockey
SB Champ 2008 - Roethlisberger-Ward
SB Champ 2007 - Manning-Harrison/Wayne
SB Champ 2006 - Manning-Harrison/Wayne
SB Champ 2005 - Roethlisberger-Ward
SB Champ 2004 - Brady-
SB Champ 2003 - Brady
SB Champ 2002 - [b] Johnson
SB Champ 2001 - Brady
SB Champ 2000 - Dilfer
SB Champ 1999 - Warner-Bruce/Holt
SB Champ 1998 - Elway-R. Smith
SB Champ 1997 - Elway-R. SMith
SB Champ 1996 - Favre-Freeman
SB Champ 1995 - Aikman-Irvin
SB Champ 1994 - Young-Rice
SB Champ 1993 - Aikman-Irvin
SB Champ 1992 - Aikman-Irvin
SB Champ 1991 - Rypien
SB Champ 1990 - Hostetler
SB Champ 1989 - Montana-Rice
SB Champ 1988 - Montana-Rice
Most these guys had help from great WR's as well. SO you could make the same argument for WR's as well.
Jan 5, 2011 at 1:52 PM
- 49erfeeeever808
- Veteran
- Posts: 31,326
Harbaugh and Al Davis are conspiring against us......
He's actually gonna go to Oakland. after this meeting today, he's gonna go straight to Al, sign there and publicly laugh at us for getting our hopes up too high.
that's my conspiracy theory......
He's actually gonna go to Oakland. after this meeting today, he's gonna go straight to Al, sign there and publicly laugh at us for getting our hopes up too high.
that's my conspiracy theory......
Jan 5, 2011 at 1:55 PM
- FILTHpigskin
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,530
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Harbaugh and Al Davis are conspiring against us......
He's actually gonna go to Oakland. after this meeting today, he's gonna go straight to Al, sign there and publicly laugh at us for getting our hopes up too high.
that's my conspiracy theory......
Yikes, that's one f**ked up theory... aka nightmare!
Jan 5, 2011 at 1:59 PM
- 49erfeeeever808
- Veteran
- Posts: 31,326
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Harbaugh and Al Davis are conspiring against us......
He's actually gonna go to Oakland. after this meeting today, he's gonna go straight to Al, sign there and publicly laugh at us for getting our hopes up too high.
that's my conspiracy theory......
Yikes, that's one f**ked up theory... aka nightmare!
points to back up my theory:
Al is jealous of the niners (Rice, Lott, Craig, Rathman, Stubblefield........)
Jim coached one of the Raiders best players ever (Gannon).
why else fire Cable who helped the team over achieve?
... dun dun dun......
Jan 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM
- FILTHpigskin
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,530
*assumes the position*
Jan 5, 2011 at 2:04 PM
- English
- Moderator
- Posts: 40,231
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Harbaugh and Al Davis are conspiring against us......
He's actually gonna go to Oakland. after this meeting today, he's gonna go straight to Al, sign there and publicly laugh at us for getting our hopes up too high.
that's my conspiracy theory......
Yikes, that's one f**ked up theory... aka nightmare!
points to back up my theory:
Al is jealous of the niners (Rice, Lott, Craig, Rathman, Stubblefield........)
Jim coached one of the Raiders best players ever (Gannon).
why else fire Cable who helped the team over achieve?
Gannon was one of the Raiders best ever players? Um, really?