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Patrick Willis... Sackmaster?

  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by dj43:
Imagine what Willis could do in an LT role where he moves around with freedom to rush the passer at any time.

I agree that Manusky has made a few changes to counter what offenses are doing. However, part of the increased production comes at the expense of weaker teams.

This defense is still caught between a 3-4 and 4-3. They don't really have the right players for either system. In a perfect world, they would run the draft to bring in other players to go to a 4-3 and allow Willis to blitz more. With four down linemen free to go after the QB plus Willis, we might finally get the pass rush punch we need. A strong pass rush will make a mediocre secondary look much better.

Yeah, we are stuck in the middle... it's the one gap scheme.

I see where you're coming from with the switch to a 4-3, but I'm all for just bringing in the best players we can and scheming to their strengths. I'm tired of our coaches trying to make a scheme work. Just let the damn players play. Be creative for once.... How the hell do the coaches think the 3-4 started in the first place?
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Wait a second, you're saying that because Willis is fourth in the league in tackles this year instead of second you want to move him around and put him on the outside? You do realize the other LBs you compared him to have less tackles because they play OLB, right? You do realize Willis being a sideline to sideline player is one of his greatest strengths, and you want to cut him off from half the field, right?

And you're saying you want to take a tall and lean OLB who has trouble holding the point of attack at the edge because he's not strong enough, who disappears for large stretches of the game and have him play ILB?

Yes, I did read what you wrote. It's just batty.

::sigh::

You again.

Ok, look. You must not be following the full conversation or something. We're talking about moving players around to create confusion some of the time. Not permanent position switches.

Again, you aren't reading everything. Please read everything before you respond to me next time.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by lamontb:
They got to use him to blitz more plain and simple. some of us been saying this for over 2 years now. They hardly ever let him attack. The last few games they did let him attack. Just like in the Saints game he got a huge sack on a a gap blitz and they never went back to it. It all comes down how Manusky uses him. i think they realize all the OLB'ers are fails at pass rushing so why not send Willis up the middle. He should take a page from Don Capers(who moves his linebackers all around) and move Willis around more often to have him blitzing from different spot or just as a decoy.

Yeah, this is the s**t I'm talking about! Defensive scheming, baby!

I think almost all of our real pressure comes from good blitzes. Why Manusky is so vanilla most of the time, I'll never know. That stunt that Lawson ran from the weak side against the Broncos where he knocked the stuffing out of Orton is exactly what we need to be doing more of.

You think Willis can keep up the pace if they keep blitzing him, though?

IF they keep blitzing him, absolutely. Will they? Probably not.
Patrick Willis is going to be elite at whatever it is he does on the field. his focus thus far has been stopping the ballcarrier, and he routinely leads the NFL in tackles, being one of the best tacklers in football. maybe THE best. (id like to see anyone else bring Steven Jackson down with one arm).

If we decide to use him in more blitz packages and use his ability to get to the QB, he will become a big sack total guy.

clearly the Niners feel he is most valuable to the defense stopping the run and getting after the ballcarrier. not saying he would be less valuable as a pass rusher, but keep in mind we do have a couple young pass rush talents on the outside. Willis doesnt really have to be that guy.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Wait a second, you're saying that because Willis is fourth in the league in tackles this year instead of second you want to move him around and put him on the outside? You do realize the other LBs you compared him to have less tackles because they play OLB, right? You do realize Willis being a sideline to sideline player is one of his greatest strengths, and you want to cut him off from half the field, right?

And you're saying you want to take a tall and lean OLB who has trouble holding the point of attack at the edge because he's not strong enough, who disappears for large stretches of the game and have him play ILB?

Yes, I did read what you wrote. It's just batty.

::sigh::

You again.

Ok, look. You must not be following the full conversation or something. We're talking about moving players around to create confusion some of the time. Not permanent position switches.

Again, you aren't reading everything. Please read everything before you respond to me next time.

::sigh::

So every time I disagree with you it's because I'm not reading what you wrote, huh? Interesting way to try to defend yourself without ever having to defend your ideas. Neat trick.

You do realize that I even used the phrase "move him around" in my first sentence to make it absolutely clear I didn't think you were talking about permanent switches, right?

TO BE CLEAR: I think the idea is idiotic. I think sometimes moving Manny Lawson around to play ILB is idiotic. I think sometimes moving Willis around to play ILB is idiotic. If Willis was on one side of the field I'd audible and run to the other. If Manny was in the middle I'd audible and run up the middle.

Willis has 5 sacks because we're calling stunts and having him blitz through the A gap. He's good at it because a) Franklin is good b) willis is fast and c) we don't do it that much.

Have you noticed that Willis is coming untouched? Does that tell you anything? Do you know that blitzing from the outside requires a different skill set than what Willis has been displaying? He hasn't had to swim, or rip, or drive the corner once. You think unlike everyone else he won't need to practice these things to be good at them simply because he can blitz the A gap? Really?

Look, I think you're clearly a passionate fan. I don't think, however, that you have that clear of a grasp on the ins-and-outs of how the game is actually played, or how the organization functions (in the last thread). All that said I think your passion is commendable (truly).

As for dismissing every criticism of every idea you've had as someone "not reading" what you wrote, I don't find that cute, not even slightly.

[ Edited by PopeyeJonesing on Dec 3, 2010 at 06:24:12 ]
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

::sigh::


Did not read.

Have a nice day.
Willis did start slow this year and it was painfully obvious, but he came back to full form around midseason.

Dude is still a beast.
A good pass rush wins championships. I noticed that Willis has been hitting the A gap this year more than what I've noticed in recent years. I think his tackles have gone down mainly because we are blitzing him more this year. It makes me extremely nervous every time he does blitz. If does not make the play, that usually means the ball got around him or over him...
Even though it makes me nervous every time he does blitz, I love it because he's a QB killer!!!
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Wait a second, you're saying that because Willis is fourth in the league in tackles this year instead of second you want to move him around and put him on the outside? You do realize the other LBs you compared him to have less tackles because they play OLB, right? You do realize Willis being a sideline to sideline player is one of his greatest strengths, and you want to cut him off from half the field, right?

And you're saying you want to take a tall and lean OLB who has trouble holding the point of attack at the edge because he's not strong enough, who disappears for large stretches of the game and have him play ILB?

Yes, I did read what you wrote. It's just batty.

::sigh::

You again.

Ok, look. You must not be following the full conversation or something. We're talking about moving players around to create confusion some of the time. Not permanent position switches.

Again, you aren't reading everything. Please read everything before you respond to me next time.

::sigh::

So every time I disagree with you it's because I'm not reading what you wrote, huh? Interesting way to try to defend yourself without ever having to defend your ideas. Neat trick.

You do realize that I even used the phrase "move him around" in my first sentence to make it absolutely clear I didn't think you were talking about permanent switches, right?

TO BE CLEAR: I think the idea is idiotic. I think sometimes moving Manny Lawson around to play ILB is idiotic. I think sometimes moving Willis around to play ILB is idiotic. If Willis was on one side of the field I'd audible and run to the other. If Manny was in the middle I'd audible and run up the middle.

Willis has 5 sacks because we're calling stunts and having him blitz through the A gap. He's good at it because a) Franklin is good b) willis is fast and c) we don't do it that much.

Have you noticed that Willis is coming untouched? Does that tell you anything? Do you know that blitzing from the outside requires a different skill set than what Willis has been displaying? He hasn't had to swim, or rip, or drive the corner once. You think unlike everyone else he won't need to practice these things to be good at them simply because he can blitz the A gap? Really?

Look, I think you're clearly a passionate fan. I don't think, however, that you have that clear of a grasp on the ins-and-outs of how the game is actually played, or how the organization functions (in the last thread). All that said I think your passion is commendable (truly).

As for dismissing every criticism of every idea you've had as someone "not reading" what you wrote, I don't find that cute, not even slightly.

Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

::sigh::


Did not read.

Have a nice day.

Any trick in the book to never have to actually defend your ideas, huh? Don't you think just not responding at all would be less embarrassing?

In any case, I've made it clear (again) that I understand the idea and that I think it's batty. Maybe I'm wrong, but hey, we'll never know, because you're either unable or unwilling to defend your thoughts.

Keep making threads I guess. I won't waste my time by responding.

I hope you continue to have a sh!tty day.
I TOO AM HAIRY LIKE WILD MAN!!!!
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by WestCoast:
I TOO AM HAIRY LIKE WILD MAN!!!!

Pics or it didn't happen.

He sure makes it look easy.
Patrick Willis brings amazing burst and explosion when he blitzes. EVERY time he blitzes, it feels like the QB is either sacked or hurreid.
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,455
Originally posted by valrod33:
ive got a sack for him to master right here