Hire a GM now?

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Who is the GM you want to hire?

People don't hire GMs during the season because you're basically resigning yourself to not hiring anybody who is currently working in football, or in broadcasting.

That, and, in the simplest terms, in-season changes are SOLELY PR moves to appease the fanbase. That's it.

Childress and Phillips didn't get fired because the Vikes or Boys needed to make a move to get to the playoffs. They got fired as a symbolic gesture to tell the fans that the ownership cares.

Fans want to see coaches fired because they see their face every Sunday. They don't care enough about GMs to need to see them fired during the year.

Other questions worth considering:

What are you expecting a midseason replacement GM to actually do?

If you want to make a coaching change why saddle yourself with someone new who the coach you desire might not want to work with?

Did you read my post? Be honest.

lol

Right now makes no sense for 2 reasons.

#1: coaches like Gruden will only come here if they can bring in their own personell guy.

#2: Jed is cheap. If he can get away with having a guy like Balkke complete GM duties w/o paying him a GM salary he is going to continue to do that.

It would be nice to have a GM in place for 2011, but as others have noted,
most quality GM types are employed at the moment

An arguement could be made that they should get the coach they want first
and then let him help decide who he wants to work with as his Player/Personel guy

for instance..Someone like Billick who emphasizes how important the structure of a team is, may be qualified and trusted to bring in a GM type that he would work well with

with that said, I have no clue who's out there that could be a good GM
and im not sure Jed and Parage do either

Hiring a football executive and a GM and letting them hire the head coach makes perfect sense. So this organization will not do anything close to that. They will stick to this cheap incompetent front office model. The Yorks will make the next coaching hire if they fire Singletary. The naive fans will hang off the new coach's nuts. After 2 years of losing and god awful football they will call for his head. This pattern has been repeating way too many times.

[ Edited by amir_tn80 on Nov 24, 2010 at 09:48:10 ]

From where I sit the logic is sound, the front office needs to be restructured no questions.

Jed York - CEO and president: No Football Experience
Paggue Maratte: VP of Football Operations: His reach is too vague but it seems he is involved in many aspects of the operation, with no experience and no focus:
Lal Henegen: I have tried several times to actually figure out what he does: What I do know is he handles league related issues.
Trent Balke: From what I understand he is well respected in football circles and can and should be part of the future, from a scouting and evaluating perspective.

Now you do not want to hire a GM know from this perspective: It depends on who you hire as a head coach. If it is Gruden, or Holmgren ( I like this name but I cannot figure how he gets here when he is under contract with the browns) they will probably demand that the organization hire someone they know and feel comfortable with. If you hire Harbaugh you will need a strong GM to help him, much the same way John McVay and Bill Walsh worked together. If the team does not...

Some good GM's will be available at the end of the season because they will be let go from their organizations: The GM from the Titans comes to mind , as well as the GM from the Vikings.

But it is Paramount that the niners get this hire right and it is going to cost them a bundle, because if they go cheap, and give the fans the same old same old they will there fan base will erode.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Did you read my post? Be honest.

Sure, I'll be honest. Yes, I read your post.

I'll continue to be honest:

The first four paragraphs can be deleted, and replaced with this sentence:

The CBA might not give a new coach a lot of time to prepare by the time the season starts, so should we hire a GM now?


The next 7 paragraphs can be deleted and replaced with this sentence:

It seems our front office structure is somewhat byzantine, and I suspect that Jed York just wants to be in power.

It's also worth noting that at this point, after the first four paragraphs you say you're ready to get to the true topic of your post. You then and make the same claim again after the next 7 paragraphs, but I digress.

The next 7 paragraphs can be deleted and replaced with this sentence:

We need a new head coach, and someone who is not Jed York to be coordinating the troops in the front office.



So, to clarify, I think you've used an extraordinary number of words to say something that isn't that well thought out, and isn't that complicated either. I responded to why people don't hire GMs in the middle of season. You've said that this is what the thread is "really" about in several places in your post, but it seems to just kind of be an organizing aside occasionally tucked into random pockets of rambling.

What exactly would you like me to respond to? I will.

Wow Popeye, are you an attorney or something?

Wodwo, I think it ultimately comes down to Jed's ego, I remember him saying he wants to be like his uncle Eddie, I know nothing of Eddie's beginnings, but I assume Jed's taking the same path.

But I agree, hiring an experienced and proven GM can potentially turn things around, but then that GM will get all the props, Jed will not.

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Did you read my post? Be honest.

Sure, I'll be honest. Yes, I read your post.

I'll continue to be honest:

The first four paragraphs can be deleted, and replaced with this sentence:

The CBA might not give a new coach a lot of time to prepare by the time the season starts, so should we hire a GM now?


The next 7 paragraphs can be deleted and replaced with this sentence:

It seems our front office structure is somewhat byzantine, and I suspect that Jed York just wants to be in power.

It's also worth noting that at this point, after the first four paragraphs you say you're ready to get to the true topic of your post. You then and make the same claim again after the next 7 paragraphs, but I digress.

The next 7 paragraphs can be deleted and replaced with this sentence:

We need a new head coach, and someone who is not Jed York to be coordinating the troops in the front office.



So, to clarify, I think you've used an extraordinary number of words to say something that isn't that well thought out, and isn't that complicated either. I responded to why people don't hire GMs in the middle of season. You've said that this is what the thread is "really" about in several places in your post, but it seems to just kind of be an organizing aside occasionally tucked into random pockets of rambling.

What exactly would you like me to respond to? I will.

Wow Popeye, are you an attorney or something?

Wodwo, I think it ultimately comes down to Jed's ego, I remember him saying he wants to be like his uncle Eddie, I know nothing of Eddie's beginnings, but I assume Jed's taking the same path.

But I agree, hiring an experienced and proven GM can potentially turn things around, but then that GM will get all the props, Jed will not.

It's funny that when someone writes well and communicates clearly they get called out for being an attorney or something.

I agree with Popeye. We are stuck with the current roster till the offseason. If we go after big name coach (Jim Harbaugh perhaps) why have a GM in place? Not having a GM in place, and offering Jim input in who the new GM is, would make coaching the 49ers a more attractive option and could end up the difference between landing the coach we want.

Having a GM sit around and watch film for six weeks to get a headstart on the offseason is not necessary not to mention difficult. Consider that we don't know what offense or defense we will be running next year, or who our QB will be, etc.

I do agree with the OP in that the front office needs a total overhaul including bringing in a respected GM, just think it should be in the offseason.

[ Edited by 49erFaithful6 on Nov 24, 2010 at 10:17:12 ]

The only problem I see with hiring a Gm now would be that I dont know how you could land a big name coach if you already have GM in place. The new is gonna want total control of the roster and you cant really do that if you have a GM. Best bet would be to wait out the season and hire your coach ask him if he has a guy who he would like to bring in to control the personnel side.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Who is the GM you want to hire?

People don't hire GMs during the season because you're basically resigning yourself to not hiring anybody who is currently working in football, or in broadcasting.

That, and, in the simplest terms, in-season changes are SOLELY PR moves to appease the fanbase. That's it.

Childress and Phillips didn't get fired because the Vikes or Boys needed to make a move to get to the playoffs. They got fired as a symbolic gesture to tell the fans that the ownership cares.

Fans want to see coaches fired because they see their face every Sunday. They don't care enough about GMs to need to see them fired during the year.

Other questions worth considering:

What are you expecting a midseason replacement GM to actually do?

If you want to make a coaching change why saddle yourself with someone new who the coach you desire might not want to work with?

Did you read my post? Be honest.

Originally posted by verb1der:


Wow Popeye, are you an attorney or something?

Wodwo, I think it ultimately comes down to Jed's ego, I remember him saying he wants to be like his uncle Eddie, I know nothing of Eddie's beginnings, but I assume Jed's taking the same path.

But I agree, hiring an experienced and proven GM can potentially turn things around, but then that GM will get all the props, Jed will not.

Lol!. . . if he actually is, I would shy away from hiring him if only because he totally whiffed on understanding or giving due consideration to the points in Wodwo's original post.

Did you actually read Wodwo's last response to their exchange? Be honest.

IMO, a very good and thoughtful first thread BTW.

I agree with the notion that GM and coaching duties need to be separated. Two ways to go:

1. Hire the HC first and have him select the GM he would like to work with; or

2. Hire a GM and have him select the HC.

I prefer the second approach.

The 49ers experienced the best, and worst, results using the first approach. Walsh brought in his own GM and so did Nolan.

If one wanted to follow the second approach, there is one obvious fellow that's available to help: Bill Parcells. It has been said that he wouldn't come and the York's would put out the bucks for him anyway. I sense those sentiments are accurate. But you never know. Ask.

Mike lombardi has been mentioned. Could be an excellent choice. i don't think that he would be too expensive. Just because he hasn't a high public profile like the Parcells' or Holmgren's.

I'm sure that there are probably others. I don't agree that hiring a competent GM would be prohibitably expensive. One of the most successful GM/HC combos out there are in Atlanta. Two relative unknowns (to outsiders) when hired and therefore not commanding astronomical retainers. We could do well to follow their approach.

If the Niners decide on the "GM first", identifying and hiring one now would give the organization a head start. An excellent point which Wodwo makes and is the impetus behind his thread.

If you decide on the "HC first" approach, the you probably have to wait until the end of the season.

If Jed is trying to emulate his uncle Eddie to the tee, he could try building a heirarcy around the Stanford coach. Eddie was looking pretty much like a failure until he lucked into Walsh. Maybe Jed could do the same. Walsh had a heck of a lot more NFL work experience than Harbaugh though. But it does seem that Harbaugh has NFL pedigree.

I still believe that it makes more sense to follow the "GM first" approach.

I concur with the points you made re Jed's ego. I would elude to Jed's lack of experience in making these kinds of decisions here also.

Originally posted by verb1der:


Wow Popeye, are you an attorney or something?

Nope. I'm just an @sshole, but not paid for it.

[ Edited by PopeyeJonesing on Nov 24, 2010 at 10:57:22 ]

I'm sure jed would want a strong GM candidate, but I also understand their apprehension after the Donahue debacle.

I think they wanted Baalke as the GM but to do that they needed to interview a black canidate for the Job before they could have given it to Baalke. This is the Rooney Rule I think. so they changes the title to a job the didn't need to follow the Rooney Rule. I don't think they need a GM they need someone to come it and run Football operations. Jeb can stay as CEO work on the New stadium and what goes on in the stadium, ticket pricing, food, and stuff like that. have a team President that can run the football operation with Trent Baalke. who would that be Right now i have no idea. Michael Lombardi Could be hired right now but if your working for another team right now you can't even talk to them without permition.

Mike Holmgren is the team President for the Browns.
Bill Parcells is the Executive Vice President of Football Operations

[ Edited by dlance on Nov 24, 2010 at 11:15:20 ]

Loud noises!!

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by verb1der:


Wow Popeye, are you an attorney or something?

Nope. I'm just an @sshole, but not paid for it.