Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:eh, I wouldn't be a good head coach. I don't think I could "watch enough film" to be a HC. I get bored at most movies but thanks for the compliment.Originally posted by dj43:Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:Gary Plummer is a good credible source on the radio broadcast. (I listen to the radio at home games and even when the team is on the road. I normally re-watch the game at least once.) Sunday he commented on several occasions that "the 49er receivers just are not getting open." He has singled out Vernon Davis for "not being on the same page" as 49er QBs on hot reads when blitzes force a quick throw. He has also criticized him for not using his body to shield defenders away from the ball on short routes. On drag and crossing routes he often runs behind the LB instead of in front of them where he would be available for a quick throw. Crabtree has caught criticism for not working back to the QB when the initial read breaks down. Morgan is "just not getting open." TV commentators have made similar observations at various times.
Here's what I don't understand and am incapable of understanding until the networks decide that I'm allowed to view the entire field. What exactly in the hell is going on past the down marker?
We know Tampa played a ton of zone on us, that much is a given. So did our receivers not sit down on their routes properly or even just running through zones? Missed reads/communication? Maybe our young QB was holding onto the ball too long or not willing to throw his receivers open to a soft spot? Maybe the timing is off? Maybe the guys are open and Blacksmith really can't be a pocket passer in this league? There's just so much stuff that's gone unanswered by Singletary and quite honestly, if he were to elaborate on the situation I wouldn't believe him because he doesn't know what he's looking at anyway.
Maybe this has been asked and answered already, but can anybody who was at the game enlighten me as to WTF went on out there? I'd like to think our receivers and QB have the flexibility inherent to professionals to adjust their reads and exploit zone, but given Simpletary's track record in regards to flexibility, they probably don't. I refuse to believe that "some teams just have your #". That is not a valid excuse ever. There's a way to win every single game if you have the talent; I believe we do, but as I said earlier, I'm incapable of making that evaluation properly because I've rarely had the opportunity to see our guys work down field.
Looking for people who were at the game or flying overhead in a blimp to weigh in here. Serious question: WTF is going on out there aside from our sieve of an O-line making things 10 times harder than they need to be?
Those are some of Plummer's comments that I recall specifically. FWIW, I have made similar observations on my own.
Much appreciated There's more useful information in that 1 post about what's going on with our receivers than Simpletary has given me in 2 years of watching him dribble all over his post game presser's. I nominate you as our next head coach.
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receivers getting open?
Nov 23, 2010 at 12:40 PM
- dj43
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- Posts: 35,655
Nov 23, 2010 at 12:58 PM
- NatralBrnThrila
- Member
- Posts: 438
Originally posted by dj43:Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:eh, I wouldn't be a good head coach. I don't think I could "watch enough film" to be a HC. I get bored at most movies but thanks for the compliment.Originally posted by dj43:Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:Gary Plummer is a good credible source on the radio broadcast. (I listen to the radio at home games and even when the team is on the road. I normally re-watch the game at least once.) Sunday he commented on several occasions that "the 49er receivers just are not getting open." He has singled out Vernon Davis for "not being on the same page" as 49er QBs on hot reads when blitzes force a quick throw. He has also criticized him for not using his body to shield defenders away from the ball on short routes. On drag and crossing routes he often runs behind the LB instead of in front of them where he would be available for a quick throw. Crabtree has caught criticism for not working back to the QB when the initial read breaks down. Morgan is "just not getting open." TV commentators have made similar observations at various times.
Here's what I don't understand and am incapable of understanding until the networks decide that I'm allowed to view the entire field. What exactly in the hell is going on past the down marker?
We know Tampa played a ton of zone on us, that much is a given. So did our receivers not sit down on their routes properly or even just running through zones? Missed reads/communication? Maybe our young QB was holding onto the ball too long or not willing to throw his receivers open to a soft spot? Maybe the timing is off? Maybe the guys are open and Blacksmith really can't be a pocket passer in this league? There's just so much stuff that's gone unanswered by Singletary and quite honestly, if he were to elaborate on the situation I wouldn't believe him because he doesn't know what he's looking at anyway.
Maybe this has been asked and answered already, but can anybody who was at the game enlighten me as to WTF went on out there? I'd like to think our receivers and QB have the flexibility inherent to professionals to adjust their reads and exploit zone, but given Simpletary's track record in regards to flexibility, they probably don't. I refuse to believe that "some teams just have your #". That is not a valid excuse ever. There's a way to win every single game if you have the talent; I believe we do, but as I said earlier, I'm incapable of making that evaluation properly because I've rarely had the opportunity to see our guys work down field.
Looking for people who were at the game or flying overhead in a blimp to weigh in here. Serious question: WTF is going on out there aside from our sieve of an O-line making things 10 times harder than they need to be?
Those are some of Plummer's comments that I recall specifically. FWIW, I have made similar observations on my own.
Much appreciated There's more useful information in that 1 post about what's going on with our receivers than Simpletary has given me in 2 years of watching him dribble all over his post game presser's. I nominate you as our next head coach.
See now that's where you got it twisted dude. You don't have to watch jack. Just say the words, toot the whistle, rock the headset, wear the cross, and the missing ingredient: chew gum. Look at John Fox in Carolina; whether the team's performing or not, the faster you chew gum the more it looks like the wheels are really turning. Sing would be well advised to chew gum I think.
I'm pretty sure Sing's actually listening to self help tapes on his headset anyway...really, you wouldn't even have to pay attention in the games whatsoever and I think that alone would get us back to .500. Less is more in our situation, trust me.
Someone get this guy a whistle and a cross...a really big one
[ Edited by NatralBrnThrila on Nov 23, 2010 at 13:06:34 ]
Nov 23, 2010 at 2:12 PM
- Joecool
- Veteran
- Posts: 70,984
Originally posted by excelsior:
While Alex was QB, he was often criticized for being indecisive, for unnecessarily throwing the ball away or for checking down, for which some derisively labeled him "Captain Checkdown."
I give Alex credit for being smart and reasonably experienced, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt that it was because he couldn't find open receivers downfield. Occassionally, the TV camara would look downfield and you could see that the receivers were covered and were not breaking open.
Alex did what any competent QB would do, and he went elsewhere with the ball. Often, we would see Vernon go downfield and he would not turn around when the QB desparately wanted to throw to him. This happened again near the end of yesterday's game, only this time Troy was the victim.
Bottom line: our receivers often let our QBs down. If its Alex, it's Alex's fault. If it's Troy, it's on the receivers.
If this is true, then...
...Troy should still start. He has made better throws in 2 games than Alex has in his entire NFL career.
I ain't saying Troy is the second coming...I'm saying Alex just sucks that bad.
Nov 23, 2010 at 2:17 PM
- jreff22
- Veteran
- Posts: 65,482
Originally posted by fly15:Originally posted by Wodwo:Originally posted by susweel:
Give it up already.....................
Alex is done
Dude, if this s**t is true... the whole team is done. Full rebuild mode for another decade.
Plus, he's right... Alex Smith was getting the blame the whole time. That's bulls**t.
Troy had one bad game, calm down dude, and YES most of the time it was Alexs' fault
33 years without a shut out....bad game doesn't describe it
Nov 23, 2010 at 2:19 PM
- binary2nd
- Member
- Posts: 1,345
Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by excelsior:
While Alex was QB, he was often criticized for being indecisive, for unnecessarily throwing the ball away or for checking down, for which some derisively labeled him "Captain Checkdown."
I give Alex credit for being smart and reasonably experienced, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt that it was because he couldn't find open receivers downfield. Occassionally, the TV camara would look downfield and you could see that the receivers were covered and were not breaking open.
Alex did what any competent QB would do, and he went elsewhere with the ball. Often, we would see Vernon go downfield and he would not turn around when the QB desparately wanted to throw to him. This happened again near the end of yesterday's game, only this time Troy was the victim.
Bottom line: our receivers often let our QBs down. If its Alex, it's Alex's fault. If it's Troy, it's on the receivers.
If this is true, then...
...Troy should still start. He has made better throws in 2 games than Alex has in his entire NFL career.
I'm saying Alex just sucks that bad.
No, he really doesn't. That was the worst QB performance in years, we didn't even cross the 30 yard line. As for your other "theory", Alex threw for 200+ yards and 3 TDs in one half before, in fact TWICE last year, these were halves in which he hit receivers in tight windows numerous times. I've yet to see Troy fit the ball in a tight window yet, we haven't seen it yet, it's all been off man coverage. It sounds like you haven't been watching the QB position for very long.
[ Edited by binary2nd on Nov 23, 2010 at 14:23:42 ]
Nov 23, 2010 at 2:19 PM
- jreff22
- Veteran
- Posts: 65,482
Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by excelsior:
While Alex was QB, he was often criticized for being indecisive, for unnecessarily throwing the ball away or for checking down, for which some derisively labeled him "Captain Checkdown."
I give Alex credit for being smart and reasonably experienced, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt that it was because he couldn't find open receivers downfield. Occassionally, the TV camara would look downfield and you could see that the receivers were covered and were not breaking open.
Alex did what any competent QB would do, and he went elsewhere with the ball. Often, we would see Vernon go downfield and he would not turn around when the QB desparately wanted to throw to him. This happened again near the end of yesterday's game, only this time Troy was the victim.
Bottom line: our receivers often let our QBs down. If its Alex, it's Alex's fault. If it's Troy, it's on the receivers.
If this is true, then...
...Troy should still start. He has made better throws in 2 games than Alex has in his entire NFL career.
I ain't saying Troy is the second coming...I'm saying Alex just sucks that bad.
lobbing the ball up doesn't = better throws, he was lucky...if he does that s**t again he will get picked more then once against AZ
Nov 23, 2010 at 2:44 PM
- boomer49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 12,623
Originally posted by 9erred:
This just comes down to horrible coaching, and horrible preparation. Last night a Giants WR Derrick Hagan who was just picked up, ran a correct route and Eli hit him for a TD. How frickin hard is it??
Walsh and Seifert all ran tight ships. Can you imagine a player mouthing off to Walsh or Seifert the way Alex Smith and VD did?The niners have been in the same rebuilding mode now for 9 frickin season, flat out disgusting.
Ummm......1994 super bowl season.....49ers get beat down by the Eagles....Seifert pulls Young and blames him for all the troubles and Young goes off on him on the sidelines...
Any of that ring a bell?
Nov 23, 2010 at 8:56 PM
- Wodwo
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,476
Originally posted by WestCoast:Originally posted by Wodwo:Originally posted by WestCoast:
yes you have perfect logic.
let's start a guy who is proven crap vs a guy who is unproven crap
I sense sarcasm.
Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. I just don't like the trend I've seen in the last two games. Troy is taking a lot of sacks. I'm worried he'll have a serious career altering injury. I would like to keep the kid around and see if we can develop him. Just my opinion, WestCoast.
I'm sorry for acting like a jerk. Forgive me?
well dingleberry and troy smith's 2-1 record with only 1 turnover disagree with you
You are being so mean to me!
I just don't want Troy Smith to get hurt. I'll just hope he doesn't. Fair?
Nov 23, 2010 at 9:05 PM
- backontop
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,346
Originally posted by boomer49er:Originally posted by 9erred:
This just comes down to horrible coaching, and horrible preparation. Last night a Giants WR Derrick Hagan who was just picked up, ran a correct route and Eli hit him for a TD. How frickin hard is it??
Walsh and Seifert all ran tight ships. Can you imagine a player mouthing off to Walsh or Seifert the way Alex Smith and VD did?The niners have been in the same rebuilding mode now for 9 frickin season, flat out disgusting.
Ummm......1994 super bowl season.....49ers get beat down by the Eagles....Seifert pulls Young and blames him for all the troubles and Young goes off on him on the sidelines...
Any of that ring a bell?
take your logic and your facts and get out of here, you know its not allowed in here.
Nov 23, 2010 at 10:08 PM
- excelsior
- Veteran
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You see, Joecool, that's what happens when you are afflicted by such intense, blind hatred. It affects your perception of reality.
Now look what your outburst has done. You have provoked some very sharp posters who felt compelled to respond to your delusional claims. Please try to hold on to whatever shred of respect some still hold for you.
Now look what your outburst has done. You have provoked some very sharp posters who felt compelled to respond to your delusional claims. Please try to hold on to whatever shred of respect some still hold for you.
Nov 23, 2010 at 10:12 PM
- backontop
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,346
Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by excelsior:
While Alex was QB, he was often criticized for being indecisive, for unnecessarily throwing the ball away or for checking down, for which some derisively labeled him "Captain Checkdown."
I give Alex credit for being smart and reasonably experienced, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt that it was because he couldn't find open receivers downfield. Occassionally, the TV camara would look downfield and you could see that the receivers were covered and were not breaking open.
Alex did what any competent QB would do, and he went elsewhere with the ball. Often, we would see Vernon go downfield and he would not turn around when the QB desparately wanted to throw to him. This happened again near the end of yesterday's game, only this time Troy was the victim.
Bottom line: our receivers often let our QBs down. If its Alex, it's Alex's fault. If it's Troy, it's on the receivers.
If this is true, then...
...Troy should still start. He has made better throws in 2 games than Alex has in his entire NFL career.
I ain't saying Troy is the second coming...I'm saying Alex just sucks that bad.
Troy hasn't made better throws than Alex, he just has better luck than Alex does.
Nov 23, 2010 at 10:19 PM
- Wodwo
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,476
Originally posted by Joecool:
If this is true, then...
...Troy should still start. He has made better throws in 2 games than Alex has in his entire NFL career.
I ain't saying Troy is the second coming...I'm saying Alex just sucks that bad.
Can you show me one throw that Troy has made that Alex hasn't? Just one?
Nov 23, 2010 at 10:21 PM
- backontop
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,346
Originally posted by Wodwo:Originally posted by Joecool:
If this is true, then...
...Troy should still start. He has made better throws in 2 games than Alex has in his entire NFL career.
I ain't saying Troy is the second coming...I'm saying Alex just sucks that bad.
Can you show me one throw that Troy has made that Alex hasn't? Just one?
The swing pass to Gore out of the backfield.....oh wait he threw it behind Gore. Oh I know the one pass that got tipped at the LOS.....oh wait Alex can do that too.
Nov 23, 2010 at 10:22 PM
- verb1der
- Member
- Posts: 15,613
Originally posted by Wodwo:Originally posted by Joecool:
If this is true, then...
...Troy should still start. He has made better throws in 2 games than Alex has in his entire NFL career.
I ain't saying Troy is the second coming...I'm saying Alex just sucks that bad.
Can you show me one throw that Troy has made that Alex hasn't? Just one?
Nov 23, 2010 at 10:36 PM
- dj43
- Moderator
- Posts: 35,655
Originally posted by backontop:The problem with luck is that it eventually evens itself out.Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by excelsior:
While Alex was QB, he was often criticized for being indecisive, for unnecessarily throwing the ball away or for checking down, for which some derisively labeled him "Captain Checkdown."
I give Alex credit for being smart and reasonably experienced, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt that it was because he couldn't find open receivers downfield. Occassionally, the TV camara would look downfield and you could see that the receivers were covered and were not breaking open.
Alex did what any competent QB would do, and he went elsewhere with the ball. Often, we would see Vernon go downfield and he would not turn around when the QB desparately wanted to throw to him. This happened again near the end of yesterday's game, only this time Troy was the victim.
Bottom line: our receivers often let our QBs down. If its Alex, it's Alex's fault. If it's Troy, it's on the receivers.
If this is true, then...
...Troy should still start. He has made better throws in 2 games than Alex has in his entire NFL career.
I ain't saying Troy is the second coming...I'm saying Alex just sucks that bad.
Troy hasn't made better throws than Alex, he just has better luck than Alex does.