How will defenses gameplan against Troy Smith?

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Ajanke:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Ajanke:

Originally posted by NJNiner:

Originally posted by SJniner7:
I don't think there is large enough of a sample to really shutdown a particular part of his game. I would say they may just try and keep him in the pocket. He seems to be able to make them pay for blitzing, so I am not sure that is such a good idea.

In all reality, they will likely blitz him heavily with our patchwork OL and hope they can get pressure quickly enough before he makes his read.

Me thinks you hit the nail on the head. The one problem with T.Smith is he is not getting rid of the ball quick enough.

Exactly, If we can see this you better believe that D Coordinators see this as well. We are gonna see how good Troy Smith really is in the next couple of weeks

maybe a couple more boot legs can counteract that blitz

maybe some designed runs too, In Shotgun with no RBs in backfield let him drop back like he is gonna pass then have him take off

This or just put him in the Gun to give him more time to read the defense.

Originally posted by SJniner7:
What did defenses in college do to stop him? The BCS title game?

Florida sacked him like 5 times and forced him to fumble that resulted in a TD IIRC.
Heavy pressure from the Gator D but I wonder if that's because Florida just had better athletes on their D than Ohio State really had on their O-line.

Do what the Eagles did last night to McNabb - bring pressure on the edge which force Smith to stay in the pocket instead of rolling out.

Also, bring a few Double A gap blitzes early in the game and then fake the blitz which opens the outside for the pass rush.

DL keep their hands up. Four passes batted down against the Rams shows Troy is vulnerable to that due to his being short. 49er OL has not shown the ability to cut DL to force them to keep their hands down. This is still a problem that will not get better until the OL play improves.

Doesn't matter.... They wont be able to stop him anyways.

Originally posted by dj43:
Do what the Eagles did last night to McNabb - bring pressure on the edge which force Smith to stay in the pocket instead of rolling out.

Also, bring a few Double A gap blitzes early in the game and then fake the blitz which opens the outside for the pass rush.

DL keep their hands up. Four passes batted down against the Rams shows Troy is vulnerable to that due to his being short. 49er OL has not shown the ability to cut DL to force them to keep their hands down. This is still a problem that will not get better until the OL play improves.

Had nothing to do late last night and ended up watching the game. I think Troy will struggle against the Bucs. If anyone has a big day, it will be Gore, Vernon, and Ginn.

He only completed 1 or 2 passes inside the numbers/hash marks. All other completions were passes near the side lines. The one he did throw in "the middle of the field" was on a sprint right shift in blocking and he threw it to the left to Crabtree on a 15 yard drag route. He did not throw ANYTHING short over the middle. I think his height plays a huge role here as he hasn't had enough experience to shift into passing lanes and then make the short pass ala Brees.

How does this correlate to him having a tough game against the Bucs? Well, since all of his throws were outside the hash marks, Tampa does play a lot of Tampa 2 which will make it difficult for him to get an open receiver on the sides. However, we have so much talent at the receiving/te/rb positions all around that we can strike any part of the field. The only problem will be if Troy can complete passes in the middle 0-12 yard range.

Yes, I'm a football geek so I thought of some things that we may do to help him out. 12 formation is a killer against cover 2 as it splits the Safeties as Favre did to us in the late 90's with Franks and Chamura.

1) 12 formation and see if they deviate from the cover two with help on Vernon over the top. This will free up Delanie for a lot of 5-7 yard option routes or it will free up the WR on Vernon's side. Alex was never able to take advantage of the single WR while his FS helped on Vernon.

2) 12 formation with Ginn out wide and send him deep with Vernon on the same side freezing the FS. The CB will stay shallow and Ginn can outrun the FS for the deep ball.

3) Run Gore all day!!! Tampa isn't all that great against the run. In fact, they are near last.

4) Rollouts. Since the CB has short outside responsibility, Tampa will not try to seal the edge as hard so we may have some good opportunities with PA rollouts.


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

Originally posted by SJniner7:
What did defenses in college do to stop him? The BCS title game?

You can't beat Jesus Tebow in the title game, everybody knows that.

Originally posted by Joecool:


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

I can't imagine what utter higgledy-piggledy will ensue in NinerTalk if Singletary pulls a smokescreen by saying Troy Smith is his starter, but secretly preps Alex Smith to take the field against Tampa. It will be a riot!

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by Joecool:


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

I can't imagine what utter higgledy-piggledy will ensue in NinerTalk if Singletary pulls a smokescreen by saying Troy Smith is his starter, but secretly preps Alex Smith to take the field against Tampa. It will be a riot!

er, uh, um, what did you say?

MODS, is that legal?

What ever it is, I want to be here to see it if it happens. This could be good.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by Joecool:


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

I can't imagine what utter higgledy-piggledy will ensue in NinerTalk if Singletary pulls a smokescreen by saying Troy Smith is his starter, but secretly preps Alex Smith to take the field against Tampa. It will be a riot!

I mean, there are things we can do to still get the parts of the field Troy Smith likes open, but I am not willing to give this coaching staff that much credit.

Troy Smith completions in the middle under 12 yards last game = 0.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by Joecool:


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

I can't imagine what utter higgledy-piggledy will ensue in NinerTalk if Singletary pulls a smokescreen by saying Troy Smith is his starter, but secretly preps Alex Smith to take the field against Tampa. It will be a riot!

er, uh, um, what did you say?

MODS, is that legal?

What ever it is, I want to be here to see it if it happens. This could be good.

I know you better, dj - but for the benefit of the rest of the zone:
higgledy-piggledy -adverb' - utter disorder and confusion

The server may not be able to take it. NO - the server WILL NOT take it!

But seriously, Joecool brought up a possibility here. Alex Smith is healthy. The Bucs are gameplanning for Troy. That's about as unexpected as it gets. Dun Dun Dun!

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by Joecool:


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

I can't imagine what utter higgledy-piggledy will ensue in NinerTalk if Singletary pulls a smokescreen by saying Troy Smith is his starter, but secretly preps Alex Smith to take the field against Tampa. It will be a riot!

er, uh, um, what did you say?

MODS, is that legal?

What ever it is, I want to be here to see it if it happens. This could be good.

I know you better, dj - but for the benefit of the rest of the zone:
higgledy-piggledy -adverb' - utter disorder and confusion

The server may not be able to take it. NO - the server WILL NOT take it!

But seriously, Joecool brought up a possibility here. Alex Smith is healthy. The Bucs are gameplanning for Troy. That's about as unexpected as it gets. Dun Dun Dun!

I just had never heard that term used in the 'zone before but I agree, the servers would likely melt down.

As to Alex replacing Troy for reasons Joecool mentioned...uh, I'm not going there today....

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by Joecool:


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

I can't imagine what utter higgledy-piggledy will ensue in NinerTalk if Singletary pulls a smokescreen by saying Troy Smith is his starter, but secretly preps Alex Smith to take the field against Tampa. It will be a riot!

er, uh, um, what did you say?

MODS, is that legal?

What ever it is, I want to be here to see it if it happens. This could be good.

I know you better, dj - but for the benefit of the rest of the zone:
higgledy-piggledy -adverb' - utter disorder and confusion

The server may not be able to take it. NO - the server WILL NOT take it!

But seriously, Joecool brought up a possibility here. Alex Smith is healthy. The Bucs are gameplanning for Troy. That's about as unexpected as it gets. Dun Dun Dun!

I just had never heard that term used in the 'zone before but I agree, the servers would likely melt down.

As to Alex replacing Troy for reasons Joecool mentioned...uh, I'm not going there today....

What about the rest of my post? Sheesh, that's what I get for typing the words "Alex Smith" into a post.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:
Do what the Eagles did last night to McNabb - bring pressure on the edge which force Smith to stay in the pocket instead of rolling out.

Also, bring a few Double A gap blitzes early in the game and then fake the blitz which opens the outside for the pass rush.

DL keep their hands up. Four passes batted down against the Rams shows Troy is vulnerable to that due to his being short. 49er OL has not shown the ability to cut DL to force them to keep their hands down. This is still a problem that will not get better until the OL play improves.

Had nothing to do late last night and ended up watching the game. I think Troy will struggle against the Bucs. If anyone has a big day, it will be Gore, Vernon, and Ginn.

He only completed 1 or 2 passes inside the numbers/hash marks. All other completions were passes near the side lines. The one he did throw in "the middle of the field" was on a sprint right shift in blocking and he threw it to the left to Crabtree on a 15 yard drag route. He did not throw ANYTHING short over the middle. I think his height plays a huge role here as he hasn't had enough experience to shift into passing lanes and then make the short pass ala Brees.

How does this correlate to him having a tough game against the Bucs? Well, since all of his throws were outside the hash marks, Tampa does play a lot of Tampa 2 which will make it difficult for him to get an open receiver on the sides. However, we have so much talent at the receiving/te/rb positions all around that we can strike any part of the field. The only problem will be if Troy can complete passes in the middle 0-12 yard range.

Yes, I'm a football geek so I thought of some things that we may do to help him out. 12 formation is a killer against cover 2 as it splits the Safeties as Favre did to us in the late 90's with Franks and Chamura.

1) 12 formation and see if they deviate from the cover two with help on Vernon over the top. This will free up Delanie for a lot of 5-7 yard option routes or it will free up the WR on Vernon's side. Alex was never able to take advantage of the single WR while his FS helped on Vernon.

2) 12 formation with Ginn out wide and send him deep with Vernon on the same side freezing the FS. The CB will stay shallow and Ginn can outrun the FS for the deep ball.

3) Run Gore all day!!! Tampa isn't all that great against the run. In fact, they are near last.

4) Rollouts. Since the CB has short outside responsibility, Tampa will not try to seal the edge as hard so we may have some good opportunities with PA rollouts.


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

12 is a very good set against the T2 defense for the reasons you mentioned. Also, not very many teams have two TEs with the overall pass catching talent of Walker and Davis. Walker as the "read" guy is more effective than Vernon.

I would be surprised if Tampa allows Troy to roll out. That is the one thing they will have seen very well on film and will make sure the DEs pressure outside.

I would love to see Ginn's deep speed. Let's see if he can catch the ball.

Gore running a lot is not an issue. He will, although Tampa will try to take that away early.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:
Do what the Eagles did last night to McNabb - bring pressure on the edge which force Smith to stay in the pocket instead of rolling out.

Also, bring a few Double A gap blitzes early in the game and then fake the blitz which opens the outside for the pass rush.

DL keep their hands up. Four passes batted down against the Rams shows Troy is vulnerable to that due to his being short. 49er OL has not shown the ability to cut DL to force them to keep their hands down. This is still a problem that will not get better until the OL play improves.

Had nothing to do late last night and ended up watching the game. I think Troy will struggle against the Bucs. If anyone has a big day, it will be Gore, Vernon, and Ginn.

He only completed 1 or 2 passes inside the numbers/hash marks. All other completions were passes near the side lines. The one he did throw in "the middle of the field" was on a sprint right shift in blocking and he threw it to the left to Crabtree on a 15 yard drag route. He did not throw ANYTHING short over the middle. I think his height plays a huge role here as he hasn't had enough experience to shift into passing lanes and then make the short pass ala Brees.

How does this correlate to him having a tough game against the Bucs? Well, since all of his throws were outside the hash marks, Tampa does play a lot of Tampa 2 which will make it difficult for him to get an open receiver on the sides. However, we have so much talent at the receiving/te/rb positions all around that we can strike any part of the field. The only problem will be if Troy can complete passes in the middle 0-12 yard range.

Yes, I'm a football geek so I thought of some things that we may do to help him out. 12 formation is a killer against cover 2 as it splits the Safeties as Favre did to us in the late 90's with Franks and Chamura.

1) 12 formation and see if they deviate from the cover two with help on Vernon over the top. This will free up Delanie for a lot of 5-7 yard option routes or it will free up the WR on Vernon's side. Alex was never able to take advantage of the single WR while his FS helped on Vernon.

2) 12 formation with Ginn out wide and send him deep with Vernon on the same side freezing the FS. The CB will stay shallow and Ginn can outrun the FS for the deep ball.

3) Run Gore all day!!! Tampa isn't all that great against the run. In fact, they are near last.

4) Rollouts. Since the CB has short outside responsibility, Tampa will not try to seal the edge as hard so we may have some good opportunities with PA rollouts.


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

12 is a very good set against the T2 defense for the reasons you mentioned. Also, not very many teams have two TEs with the overall pass catching talent of Walker and Davis. Walker as the "read" guy is more effective than Vernon.

I would be surprised if Tampa allows Troy to roll out. That is the one thing they will have seen very well on film and will make sure the DEs pressure outside.

I would love to see Ginn's deep speed. Let's see if he can catch the ball.

Gore running a lot is not an issue. He will, although Tampa will try to take that away early.

Let's hope the coaches use the bold against Tampa. If they try to contain Troy, then Gore should have a s**t load of success running between the G/T as it will be easy for our Tackles to seal the DE's for a nice gap.

Troy still hasn't proven to be able to throw a completion in the middle -10 yards. That's worries me. But one thing is for sure, we can't say he's missed an open receiver.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:
Do what the Eagles did last night to McNabb - bring pressure on the edge which force Smith to stay in the pocket instead of rolling out.

Also, bring a few Double A gap blitzes early in the game and then fake the blitz which opens the outside for the pass rush.

DL keep their hands up. Four passes batted down against the Rams shows Troy is vulnerable to that due to his being short. 49er OL has not shown the ability to cut DL to force them to keep their hands down. This is still a problem that will not get better until the OL play improves.

Had nothing to do late last night and ended up watching the game. I think Troy will struggle against the Bucs. If anyone has a big day, it will be Gore, Vernon, and Ginn.

He only completed 1 or 2 passes inside the numbers/hash marks. All other completions were passes near the side lines. The one he did throw in "the middle of the field" was on a sprint right shift in blocking and he threw it to the left to Crabtree on a 15 yard drag route. He did not throw ANYTHING short over the middle. I think his height plays a huge role here as he hasn't had enough experience to shift into passing lanes and then make the short pass ala Brees.

How does this correlate to him having a tough game against the Bucs? Well, since all of his throws were outside the hash marks, Tampa does play a lot of Tampa 2 which will make it difficult for him to get an open receiver on the sides. However, we have so much talent at the receiving/te/rb positions all around that we can strike any part of the field. The only problem will be if Troy can complete passes in the middle 0-12 yard range.

Yes, I'm a football geek so I thought of some things that we may do to help him out. 12 formation is a killer against cover 2 as it splits the Safeties as Favre did to us in the late 90's with Franks and Chamura.

1) 12 formation and see if they deviate from the cover two with help on Vernon over the top. This will free up Delanie for a lot of 5-7 yard option routes or it will free up the WR on Vernon's side. Alex was never able to take advantage of the single WR while his FS helped on Vernon.

2) 12 formation with Ginn out wide and send him deep with Vernon on the same side freezing the FS. The CB will stay shallow and Ginn can outrun the FS for the deep ball.

3) Run Gore all day!!! Tampa isn't all that great against the run. In fact, they are near last.

4) Rollouts. Since the CB has short outside responsibility, Tampa will not try to seal the edge as hard so we may have some good opportunities with PA rollouts.


Honestly, I think Alex may have more success against this type of defense as he loves the middle of the field. The Cover 2 is all about giving that.

12 is a very good set against the T2 defense for the reasons you mentioned. Also, not very many teams have two TEs with the overall pass catching talent of Walker and Davis. Walker as the "read" guy is more effective than Vernon.

I would be surprised if Tampa allows Troy to roll out. That is the one thing they will have seen very well on film and will make sure the DEs pressure outside.

I would love to see Ginn's deep speed. Let's see if he can catch the ball.

Gore running a lot is not an issue. He will, although Tampa will try to take that away early.

Let's hope the coaches use the bold against Tampa. If they try to contain Troy, then Gore should have a s**t load of success running between the G/T as it will be easy for our Tackles to seal the DE's for a nice gap.

Troy still hasn't proven to be able to throw a completion in the middle -10 yards. That's worries me. But one thing is for sure, we can't say he's missed an open receiver.

The short middle will always be tough for Troy due to his height, and until the OL learns to cut block on short timing routes. NO does that very well for Brees.