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The Remainder of the 2010 Season is Pointless

you never know how things will turn out. I don't have a lot of hope, but I'm going to keep watching the games and rooting for my team.

And I disagree that there is nothing to gain from evaluating the QB's. Even if we do bring in another head coach/GM, who's to say that they won't want to keep Troy or Nate around--or even Alex? Yes, they might want to bring in their own QB, but its not like there are quality vets lying around waiting for phone calls, so a new HC/GM will probably have to draft "their" QB, which means they may need a more experienced QB to start the season. Any QB that will be drafted by the Niners this year will certainly not be ready to start from day one (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe, beyond Luck, that there is a day-one NFL ready QB in this draft; it seems like a lot of projects). So, I think that the QB evaluation is important, not just for this season but for next.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think the Niners throw a lot of money in the direction of Gruden, and keep Baalke in his current role.

Gruden is a big fan of Alex Smith (he tried to trade up from the fifth pick to the first overall to get him in 2005), but I still think the Niners go QB with their first round selection.

It's probably more accurate now to say that Gruden WAS a big fan of Alex Smith back in 2005. Probably not so much now.

Coaches are arrogant. They always think they can change a player around. I'm sure Gruden feels the same way today.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
How can you possibly say its pointless? If we lose the last 8 games and go 2-14 we have a great shot at Andrew Luck.

My last sentence addresses the only interest remaining this season. And, Luck may be the only guy who really emerges as a solid pro, so I hope Merriman gets about 5 sacks a game and Fitzpatrick turns into Dan Marino.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 5, 2010 at 11:06 AM ]
Originally posted by mayo49:
Quote:
1) can you name 1 successful NFL coach who left coaching completely, came back sometime later, and found success with a new team? You may say Parcells, but I would argue that he's the exception. Holmgren, Seifert, Mooch and Billichik switched teams, but never left coaching.

Dick Viermel, from Eagles to championship with the Rams.

This is true, although I've always thought that Viermel and the rest of that team was more a function of ridiculous luck, since one of the greatest QBs of all time completely fell into their laps, without them doing much about it. Not one person on that team thought Warner would be even a half-way effective QB, and not one of them dreamed of putting him in as the starter before the injury. But yes, you are correct, Viermel did come back to have success. How about the other 4 points, geared more specifically at Gruden?
Gibbs brought back the Redskins from the ashes to become competitive again....despite Daniel Snyder.
I'm skeptic on moving to a 4-3, because 3-4s are pretty much the 'current' standard (due to Bill Belichick), and we're kind've over-estimating what we should be just because Manusky is a mediocre/vanilla 3-4 DC.

Quality 4-3 DTs are seriously f**kin' hard to find these days (not to mention you'll need 2 to run the line), and they're too predictable to any 5-star Franchise QB (to dissect). I think if we had a 5-star OLB (under our current scheme), and a consistent NT this would be a scary defense (would help the backfield hand-in-hand).
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,553
Quote:
2) Why would a team desperate for a franchise QB, get a HC who has NEVER discovered a single successful young QB. He's had success with vets, but his QB drafting has been a joke. Wanted to trade up for Smith but passed on Rodgers? Is that the type of guy this team wants?

3) if Gruden is such a hot commodity why did he get fired, and why did no team jump on him last season?

4) how would you rate the Bucs' drafting with Gruden? I give them a C-

5) is my grade of a C- too generous?

As far as these are concerned, I do wonder exactly why Gruden was let go and he hasn't gotten a sniff since, but it could just be that he's waiting for a better job to open up. I think your grade of C- is about right, but how much he had in the drafting of players is still in question. I like Gruden because he's the best of what's out there besides Cohwer, but Cowher won't take a west coast job. But, I don't think it matters because I don't think York fires Sing this year. He'll probably give him another chance with a different QB.
[ Edited by mayo49 on Nov 5, 2010 at 11:49 AM ]
MD, I feel your pain. And your discouragement. And your despair. I have found it impossible to watch games with much enthusiasm. The offense is dull and unimaginative. The defense inevitably wears down and allows a crucial score in the fourth quarter. Even the special teams (coverage units) are a shell of what they were with Ulbrich and Robinson and McKillop out there.

BUT, even without a sniff of the playoffs, and with a possible coaching staff turnover at year end, the club can still accomplish a few things on the player development and player evaluation front over the next 8 weeks or so. For example:

The most important factor is OL development. Remember that when Bill Walsh took over, he didn't have much, but he did inherit most elements of an OL that could play together at a consistently good level. So, for this OL, here are some questions, where answers need to come forth over the next 8 weeks. Is Rachal an NFL starter? Should the OT's stay as assigned, or should they be flip-flopped next year (Davis to LT, Staley to RT)? Can Baas stay healthy and continue to perform at C for a full season? Can these guys demonstrate accellerated progress up the learning curve, as a unit in their current positions? Even with a new coaching staff, OL chemistry can carry-over.

Is Troy Smith a valuable asset as a back-up or possible interim veteran starter in 2011, while the club grooms its yet-to-be-determined "franchise QB"? Does it make sense to see what Nate Davis can do with live bullets coming his way, in real NFL game or two? (I would love to see this happen).

Increase PT for the 1-3 year players, who will be under contract for a time, to see if they can play, esp guys like Jean-Francois, R. Smith, Bowman, and the 2 young CB's.

Whether there is a 2011 season or not, the following 15 players will probably not be back, so wind down their PT:

QB Alex Smith (performance)
QB David Carr (performance)
FB Moran Norris (performance)
RB Brian Westbrook (money)
WR Jason Hill (performance)
C Heitmann (injury - retirement))
C/G Tony Wragge (performance)
OT Barry Sims (money)
NT Aubrey Franklin (money)
DT Evans (money)
OLB Lawson (money)
ILB Spikes (disgust with the organization)
CB Clements (money)
CB James (performance)
FS Goldson (money)

I don't know about a new HC. I would change the organizational strusture and hire a seasoned GM first. Then let hat guy make the coaching and scouting decisions. The Yorks should be quietly recruiting that GM right now, behind the scenes, for announcement immediately after the 2010 season ends.

Keep in mind that the uncertainty surrounding the CBA, will keep the Yorks from making any large financial commitment until the new CBA is final and the NFL knows if there will be a full season in 2011 or any season at all in 2011. This CBA negotiation is going to be a real hassle to get done, mostly because the owners are not united among themselves. They can barely agree on time and place for an owners' meeting!
MadDog,
Eventhough you were wrong in your 2009 prediction, I thought that thread was way better than this. I am kinda disappointed.

You are not giving any meaningful content here. Your post does not explain why the remaining of this season is pointless, and I also don't see any meaningful prediction.

I know I can't do better, but you should.
Originally posted by pigskin:
MadDog,
Eventhough you were wrong in your 2009 prediction, I thought that thread was way better than this. I am kinda disappointed.

You are not giving any meaningful content here. Your post does not explain why the remaining of this season is pointless, and I also don't see any meaningful prediction.

I know I can't do better, but you should.

The reason why the rest of the season is pointless is:
1. The team is not going to the playoff
2. There is nothing to build upon, since the coaching staff is going to be fired
3. The new staff will select players that fit their scheme, which will probably be different than our scheme.

So, take for example: Let's say that Manny Lawson finishes strong, and people are excited about his return in 2011. However, the new coaching staff may feel he is not a fit in a 4-3 scheme, and let him walk away.

Or, let's say that Troy Smith plays pretty well, and we say, "Here is our QB of the future.' Not so fast. The new staff may feel that he will not play well in their scheme (7 step vertical game...Mike Martz offense, or a West Coast offense, etc.).

Or, we see a nice improvement in Taylor Mays as he plays closer to the line of scrimmage, but next year we change to a Cover-2 scheme. So, what's the point of being excited in 2010, when everything could change in 2011.

I guess the only concession I might make, as JimBagg wisely stated, is the development of the offensive line. That will be huge in 2011. Even then, we may change to a zone blocking scheme, and our OL could go through another retooling.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by pigskin:
MadDog,
Eventhough you were wrong in your 2009 prediction, I thought that thread was way better than this. I am kinda disappointed.

You are not giving any meaningful content here. Your post does not explain why the remaining of this season is pointless, and I also don't see any meaningful prediction.

I know I can't do better, but you should.

The reason why the rest of the season is pointless is:
1. The team is not going to the playoff
2. There is nothing to build upon, since the coaching staff is going to be fired
3. The new staff will select players that fit their scheme, which will probably be different than our scheme.

So, take for example: Let's say that Manny Lawson finishes strong, and people are excited about his return in 2011. However, the new coaching staff may feel he is not a fit in a 4-3 scheme, and let him walk away.

Or, let's say that Troy Smith plays pretty well, and we say, "Here is our QB of the future.' Not so fast. The new staff may feel that he will not play well in their scheme (7 step vertical game...Mike Martz offense, or a West Coast offense, etc.).

Or, we see a nice improvement in Taylor Mays as he plays closer to the line of scrimmage, but next year we change to a Cover-2 scheme. So, what's the point of being excited in 2010, when everything could change in 2011.

And, think about the turnover on our roster next year. I think we may see as many as 15 new faces in 2011. This is going to be a much different looking team.

I guess the only concession I might make, as JimBagg wisely stated, is the development of the offensive line. That will be huge in 2011. Even then, we may change to a zone blocking scheme, and our OL could go through another retooling.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 5, 2010 at 12:27 PM ]
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
MadDog,

We are all just a bunch of puppies who keep following around our master and hoping for some love and attention, even when all he does is kick us for trying to get some.

Football is pointless. Life is pointless.

Sincerely,

Wodwo

/emocide
LOL I highly doubt Gruden still thinks highly of Alex Smith. Most people were high on Smith coming out of the draft...hence the #1 overall selection.
The season was pointless before it ever began my friends. This organization takes none of the steps to become a Super Bowl Contender. And no, they won't take any necessary steps this off season either.

Expect another nobody to come in at HC and them to draft the wrong QB, and mishandle him on top of that.

The playoff drought will continue.

Theres your next 5 year forecast.
[ Edited by danimal on Nov 5, 2010 at 12:36 PM ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Gibbs brought back the Redskins from the ashes to become competitive again....despite Daniel Snyder.

Joe Gibbs is a top 5 or even top 3 coach of all time, and even his success was modest