The Remainder of the 2010 Season is Pointless

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by HessianDud:


i don't think the niners will win the super bowl this year, but i don't necessarily think the team has to completely rebuild in the offseason--at least I don't think that now, and I think that that is the point of the next 7 games: to figure out the extent of any rebuilding that must take place.

I don't think that watching for the sake of watching is pointless, anymore than watching a movie is pointless. Its entertainment, you enjoy it, its a hobby and part of your life. Its semantics, maybe.

Some of us don't need 7 more games to know that we are in for a major rebuild. Thats the point the OP is making....and I agree. Nobody is suggesting to stop watching.

Define major rebuild. Let's look at the roster:

Offense

I don't think scheme is a factor for any of these.

QB: Troy = ?

RB: Gore = Starter

FB: Wut? Delete position.

WR: Crabtree = Starter
Morgan = ?

TE: Davis = Starter
Walker = H-back (Replace obsolete FB)

LT: Staley = Starter (locked up contract)
LG: Iupati = Starter (Haven't seen anything to say otherwise)
C: Baas = Starter (FO already wants to lock him up)
RG: Rachal = ? (cut or miracle)
RT: Davis = ? (Probably starter, we'll see after season)

So, on offense I see most of these guys sticking around. Three starting positions is not a rebuild. We need to add competition and back-ups, but again... that's not a rebuild.

Defense

Here is where things get hairy. What scheme do we play? Rebuilding here is possible depending on who we bring in. I'll just use our current scheme with the idea that each player is versatile.

RE: Smith = Starter
DT: Franklin = ? (contract)
LE: Sopoaga = Starter (playing well, versatile)

ROLB: Haralson = ? (do not want)
RILB: Spikes = ? (contract, scheme, age)
LILB: Willis = Duh
LOLB: Lawson = ? (Starter if re-signed)

LCB: Clements = ? (contract is too big)
RCB: Spencer = Starter
FS: Goldson = ? (contract, do we even want him)
SS: Mays = ? (We'll see how he develops over the season.)

Many back-up players are keepers and some may be future starters.

Could be looking at a major rebuild here. Can't say for sure though until we know who the coach is, what the scheme is, who is re-signed, and most important to the point of this thread... who plays well for the rest of the season.

Special Teams

Kicker: Nedney = ? (injuries)
Punter: Lee = Duh
KR/PR: Ginn = starter
Long-snapper = Double Duh

No major rebuild here... not that there are a lot of positions....


Overall, the defense is the only area that I see being rebuilt. If it is going to be rebuilt, we still need to assess some of the talent we have. From a front office point of view, the rest of the season is far from pointless. Almost all of those question marks need to have more time to prove themselves. So, while you might think you don't need seven games to see we are in for a major rebuild, if we play great and those players in question prove themselves... no rebuild.

So, the season is not pointless from this perspective, either. At least in my opinion.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by HessianDud:


i don't think the niners will win the super bowl this year, but i don't necessarily think the team has to completely rebuild in the offseason--at least I don't think that now, and I think that that is the point of the next 7 games: to figure out the extent of any rebuilding that must take place.

I don't think that watching for the sake of watching is pointless, anymore than watching a movie is pointless. Its entertainment, you enjoy it, its a hobby and part of your life. Its semantics, maybe.

Some of us don't need 7 more games to know that we are in for a major rebuild. Thats the point the OP is making....and I agree. Nobody is suggesting to stop watching.

Define major rebuild. Let's look at the roster:

Offense

I don't think scheme is a factor for any of these.

QB: Troy = ?

RB: Gore = Starter

FB: Wut? Delete position.

WR: Crabtree = Starter
Morgan = ?

TE: Davis = Starter
Walker = H-back (Replace obsolete FB)

LT: Staley = Starter (locked up contract)
LG: Iupati = Starter (Haven't seen anything to say otherwise)
C: Baas = Starter (FO already wants to lock him up)
RG: Rachal = ? (cut or miracle)
RT: Davis = ? (Probably starter, we'll see after season)

So, on offense I see most of these guys sticking around. Three starting positions is not a rebuild. We need to add competition and back-ups, but again... that's not a rebuild.

Defense

Here is where things get hairy. What scheme do we play? Rebuilding here is possible depending on who we bring in. I'll just use our current scheme with the idea that each player is versatile.

RE: Smith = Starter
DT: Franklin = ? (contract)
LE: Sopoaga = Starter (playing well, versatile)

ROLB: Haralson = ? (do not want)
RILB: Spikes = ? (contract, scheme, age)
LILB: Willis = Duh
LOLB: Lawson = ? (Starter if re-signed)

LCB: Clements = ? (contract is too big)
RCB: Spencer = Starter
FS: Goldson = ? (contract, do we even want him)
SS: Mays = ? (We'll see how he develops over the season.)

Many back-up players are keepers and some may be future starters.

Could be looking at a major rebuild here. Can't say for sure though until we know who the coach is, what the scheme is, who is re-signed, and most important to the point of this thread... who plays well for the rest of the season.

Special Teams

Kicker: Nedney = ? (injuries)
Punter: Lee = Duh
KR/PR: Ginn = starter
Long-snapper = Double Duh

No major rebuild here... not that there are a lot of positions....


Overall, the defense is the only area that I see being rebuilt. If it is going to be rebuilt, we still need to assess some of the talent we have. From a front office point of view, the rest of the season is far from pointless. Almost all of those question marks need to have more time to prove themselves. So, while you might think you don't need seven games to see we are in for a major rebuild, if we play great and those players in question prove themselves... no rebuild.

So, the season is not pointless from this perspective, either. At least in my opinion.

I agree, the only major rebuilding we need is with the coaching staff. We have a few pieces missing but our biggest problem is coaching.

Maddog, more often than not, knows his s**t.

Originally posted by jreff22:
Any HC predictions?

Mike Holmgren (if he still wants to coach or if his wife will let him), Jon Gruden, unless he wants to still stick to the Glazers who still will owe him about $$ 6 million~ll~~Bill Cowher, if he is able to~e~he lost his wife this last July to cancer.

In any event, a change must be made. It will be sad because I like Mike Singletary

Originally posted by bmartorella:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Any HC predictions?

Mike Holmgren (if he still wants to coach or if his wife will let him), Jon Gruden, unless he wants to still stick to the Glazers who still will owe him about $$ 6 million~ll~~Bill Cowher, if he is able to~e~he lost his wife this last July to cancer.

In any event, a change must be made. It will be sad because I like Mike Singletary

Maddog was way wrong in predicting we would make the playoffs this season, but guess what? So were we all. Maddog manned up and admitted he was wrong and wrote what many of us felt would be the best long term solution for the team - losing so that we rid ourselves of our horrendous coaching staff and get a real front office and coach run by experienced winners.

Originally posted by bmartorella:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Any HC predictions?

Mike Holmgren (if he still wants to coach or if his wife will let him), Jon Gruden, unless he wants to still stick to the Glazers who still will owe him about $$ 6 million~ll~~Bill Cowher, if he is able to~e~he lost his wife this last July to cancer.

In any event, a change must be made. It will be sad because I like Mike Singletary

I like Mike, just like I liked previous Mike. And, I hope that fans do not go on a character assassination kick as this season continues to torpedo.

Some guys are ready to be head coaches, and Singletary may be that man...down the road. As we saw again today, he is simply not ready.

P.S. I think we are witnessing how a guy with great motivational speaking skills, if he cannot back it up with a strong game plan, and strong discipline, eventually will see their words falls on deaf ears. This team was simply not prepared emotionally or mentally to play, and that is a shame, because there is so much talent.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 21, 2010 at 17:53:17 ]

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by HessianDud:


i don't think the niners will win the super bowl this year, but i don't necessarily think the team has to completely rebuild in the offseason--at least I don't think that now, and I think that that is the point of the next 7 games: to figure out the extent of any rebuilding that must take place.

I don't think that watching for the sake of watching is pointless, anymore than watching a movie is pointless. Its entertainment, you enjoy it, its a hobby and part of your life. Its semantics, maybe.

Some of us don't need 7 more games to know that we are in for a major rebuild. Thats the point the OP is making....and I agree. Nobody is suggesting to stop watching.

Define major rebuild. Let's look at the roster:

Offense

I don't think scheme is a factor for any of these.

QB: Troy = ?

RB: Gore = Starter

FB: Wut? Delete position.

WR: Crabtree = Starter
Morgan = ?

TE: Davis = Starter
Walker = H-back (Replace obsolete FB)

LT: Staley = Starter (locked up contract)
LG: Iupati = Starter (Haven't seen anything to say otherwise)
C: Baas = Starter (FO already wants to lock him up)
RG: Rachal = ? (cut or miracle)
RT: Davis = ? (Probably starter, we'll see after season)

So, on offense I see most of these guys sticking around. Three starting positions is not a rebuild. We need to add competition and back-ups, but again... that's not a rebuild.

Defense

Here is where things get hairy. What scheme do we play? Rebuilding here is possible depending on who we bring in. I'll just use our current scheme with the idea that each player is versatile.

RE: Smith = Starter
DT: Franklin = ? (contract)
LE: Sopoaga = Starter (playing well, versatile)

ROLB: Haralson = ? (do not want)
RILB: Spikes = ? (contract, scheme, age)
LILB: Willis = Duh
LOLB: Lawson = ? (Starter if re-signed)

LCB: Clements = ? (contract is too big)
RCB: Spencer = Starter
FS: Goldson = ? (contract, do we even want him)
SS: Mays = ? (We'll see how he develops over the season.)

Many back-up players are keepers and some may be future starters.

Could be looking at a major rebuild here. Can't say for sure though until we know who the coach is, what the scheme is, who is re-signed, and most important to the point of this thread... who plays well for the rest of the season.

Special Teams

Kicker: Nedney = ? (injuries)
Punter: Lee = Duh
KR/PR: Ginn = starter
Long-snapper = Double Duh

No major rebuild here... not that there are a lot of positions....


Overall, the defense is the only area that I see being rebuilt. If it is going to be rebuilt, we still need to assess some of the talent we have. From a front office point of view, the rest of the season is far from pointless. Almost all of those question marks need to have more time to prove themselves. So, while you might think you don't need seven games to see we are in for a major rebuild, if we play great and those players in question prove themselves... no rebuild.

So, the season is not pointless from this perspective, either. At least in my opinion.

I agree, the only major rebuilding we need is with the coaching staff. We have a few pieces missing but our biggest problem is coaching.

There are a lot of good pieces in place, but once again, if the new coach switches defenses to the 4-3, and installs a new type of offense (WCO or something else) or zone blocking scheme on offense, we could see a big change in personnel.

We are just stuck in lame duck status for six more weeks.

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by danimal:
if this season is not pointless. What exactly is the point?

the point is that its a season of 49ers football and its only half over. it only lasts for 17 weeks a year. you will only live around 74 years. So there's a finite number of seasons of 49ers football in your lifetime, and those seasons are naturally short, so, if you like the 49ers, then the point is just to watch the 49ers.

I think of this subject as from a Franchise point of view, not the fans.

Lets get specific then.

49ers won't be winning a Championship(conference or better) in 2010.....AND HC and most likely one of the coordinators will get the axe. AND a big investment will most likely be put into another Franchise QB hopeful. Also, the new regime could take the long view in which case veterans starters will be released at every opportunity.

The question really is two fold.

Do you believe the Niners are going to the SuperBowl this season?
Do you believe the Niners are effectively going to start a Rebuild in the off season?

If your answer is No, Yes respectively....well then that pretty much renders the remainder of this season pointless.

The next time the Niners are relevant again, most of these coaches and players will be gone...so from a franchise point of view it doesn't really matter what this team does now.

If you want to disagree, then disagree on the Short Term(1-2 seasons) path that this team can remain mostly intact and improve. Thats the argument here. Not whats the point in watching? I assume most of us here always watch.

For the past 8 years I watch the Niners ONLY for the sake of watching...in that; it was all pointless(but I knew that it would be)

i don't think the niners will win the super bowl this year, but i don't necessarily think the team has to completely rebuild in the offseason--at least I don't think that now, and I think that that is the point of the next 7 games: to figure out the extent of any rebuilding that must take place.

I don't think that watching for the sake of watching is pointless, anymore than watching a movie is pointless. Its entertainment, you enjoy it, its a hobby and part of your life. Its semantics, maybe.

Some of us don't need 7 more games to know that we are in for a major rebuild. Thats the point the OP is making....and I agree. Nobody is suggesting to stop watching.

as I was saying. Some of us don't need 7 more games to know what we have. The next HC won't be too impressed with what they inherit either. This team is going to get blown up. The next time you have high hopes for the Niners none of these people will be on the team.(well maybe 2 or 3 tops.)

Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
Maddog, more often than not, knows his s**t.

lolz

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

There are a lot of good pieces in place, but once again, if the new coach switches defenses to the 4-3, and installs a new type of offense (WCO or something else) or zone blocking scheme on offense, we could see a big change in personnel.

We are just stuck in lame duck status for six more weeks.

Yeah, 4-3 could see big changes. New offense... not so much, I think. Staley, Iupati, and Baas (or Heitmann if you prefer ) are athletic enough to play in any blocking scheme. Anthony Davis.... man, I jut don't know what to say about him... total loss for words... just blech. Same for Rachal.

We could pick up a couple key guys and cover any kind of offensive scheme, I think.

Still not pointless, though. I got to watch Willis play.

Damn MD, I was really hoping you would be wrong!

I see lots of changes, especially within in the coaching staff.
We need help with QB, RB, WR, OL.
On defense, we need help with DL, CB, and pass rushers...

going to be an ugly offseason

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by danimal:
if this season is not pointless. What exactly is the point?

the point is that its a season of 49ers football and its only half over. it only lasts for 17 weeks a year. you will only live around 74 years. So there's a finite number of seasons of 49ers football in your lifetime, and those seasons are naturally short, so, if you like the 49ers, then the point is just to watch the 49ers.

I think of this subject as from a Franchise point of view, not the fans.

Lets get specific then.

49ers won't be winning a Championship(conference or better) in 2010.....AND HC and most likely one of the coordinators will get the axe. AND a big investment will most likely be put into another Franchise QB hopeful. Also, the new regime could take the long view in which case veterans starters will be released at every opportunity.

The question really is two fold.

Do you believe the Niners are going to the SuperBowl this season?
Do you believe the Niners are effectively going to start a Rebuild in the off season?

If your answer is No, Yes respectively....well then that pretty much renders the remainder of this season pointless.

The next time the Niners are relevant again, most of these coaches and players will be gone...so from a franchise point of view it doesn't really matter what this team does now.

If you want to disagree, then disagree on the Short Term(1-2 seasons) path that this team can remain mostly intact and improve. Thats the argument here. Not whats the point in watching? I assume most of us here always watch.

For the past 8 years I watch the Niners ONLY for the sake of watching...in that; it was all pointless(but I knew that it would be)

i don't think the niners will win the super bowl this year, but i don't necessarily think the team has to completely rebuild in the offseason--at least I don't think that now, and I think that that is the point of the next 7 games: to figure out the extent of any rebuilding that must take place.

I don't think that watching for the sake of watching is pointless, anymore than watching a movie is pointless. Its entertainment, you enjoy it, its a hobby and part of your life. Its semantics, maybe.

Some of us don't need 7 more games to know that we are in for a major rebuild. Thats the point the OP is making....and I agree. Nobody is suggesting to stop watching.

as I was saying. Some of us don't need 7 more games to know what we have. The next HC won't be too impressed with what they inherit either. This team is going to get blown up. The next time you have high hopes for the Niners none of these people will be on the team.(well maybe 2 or 3 tops.)

cool for you bro

Originally posted by NinerGM:
NOW the remainder of the season is pointless.

You can't give up hope, yet. The Niners could still win their last 6 games and win the division.

Just playin' with you.

yesterday was embarrassing...I knew beating Tampa would be a tall order, but we didn't even come close to scoring. RaheemMorris and his coaching staff out-coached, out-classed Singletary and his bunch. Their players outplayed ours by a very wide margin. But...there's some hope. Oh, we'll still tank the rest of the season. I predicted 6-10, but it could be worse. The hope I speak of is with the Childress firing, there's some possibility Jed has gotten fed up and will fire Singletary. I know that may be a longshot, but it's possible. I think Manusky could run the team for the remainder of the season. Without a CBA, 2011 is much in doubt, but the team simply can't go on virtually leaderless. Come on, man (to Jed)...

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by HessianDud:


i don't think the niners will win the super bowl this year, but i don't necessarily think the team has to completely rebuild in the offseason--at least I don't think that now, and I think that that is the point of the next 7 games: to figure out the extent of any rebuilding that must take place.

I don't think that watching for the sake of watching is pointless, anymore than watching a movie is pointless. Its entertainment, you enjoy it, its a hobby and part of your life. Its semantics, maybe.

Some of us don't need 7 more games to know that we are in for a major rebuild. Thats the point the OP is making....and I agree. Nobody is suggesting to stop watching.

Define major rebuild. Let's look at the roster:

Offense

I don't think scheme is a factor for any of these.

QB: Troy = ?

RB: Gore = Starter

FB: Wut? Delete position.

WR: Crabtree = Starter
Morgan = ?

TE: Davis = Starter
Walker = H-back (Replace obsolete FB)

LT: Staley = Starter (locked up contract)
LG: Iupati = Starter (Haven't seen anything to say otherwise)
C: Baas = Starter (FO already wants to lock him up)
RG: Rachal = ? (cut or miracle)
RT: Davis = ? (Probably starter, we'll see after season)

So, on offense I see most of these guys sticking around. Three starting positions is not a rebuild. We need to add competition and back-ups, but again... that's not a rebuild.

Defense

Here is where things get hairy. What scheme do we play? Rebuilding here is possible depending on who we bring in. I'll just use our current scheme with the idea that each player is versatile.

RE: Smith = Starter
DT: Franklin = ? (contract)
LE: Sopoaga = Starter (playing well, versatile)

ROLB: Haralson = ? (do not want)
RILB: Spikes = ? (contract, scheme, age)
LILB: Willis = Duh
LOLB: Lawson = ? (Starter if re-signed)

LCB: Clements = ? (contract is too big)
RCB: Spencer = Starter
FS: Goldson = ? (contract, do we even want him)
SS: Mays = ? (We'll see how he develops over the season.)

Many back-up players are keepers and some may be future starters.

Could be looking at a major rebuild here. Can't say for sure though until we know who the coach is, what the scheme is, who is re-signed, and most important to the point of this thread... who plays well for the rest of the season.

Special Teams

Kicker: Nedney = ? (injuries)
Punter: Lee = Duh
KR/PR: Ginn = starter
Long-snapper = Double Duh

No major rebuild here... not that there are a lot of positions....


Overall, the defense is the only area that I see being rebuilt. If it is going to be rebuilt, we still need to assess some of the talent we have. From a front office point of view, the rest of the season is far from pointless. Almost all of those question marks need to have more time to prove themselves. So, while you might think you don't need seven games to see we are in for a major rebuild, if we play great and those players in question prove themselves... no rebuild.

So, the season is not pointless from this perspective, either. At least in my opinion.

I agree, the only major rebuilding we need is with the coaching staff. We have a few pieces missing but our biggest problem is coaching.

There are a lot of good pieces in place, but once again, if the new coach switches defenses to the 4-3, and installs a new type of offense (WCO or something else) or zone blocking scheme on offense, we could see a big change in personnel.

We are just stuck in lame duck status for six more weeks.

I'm hoping for a 4-3 defense. We already have most of the personnel. I just miss the days of BY and Stubby getting sacks from the interior line. I think Smith can play end in a 4-3 (he did in Cinci) and Soap can be a good interior lineman.