Good stuff from Troy and Sing

Ghost listed 12 QBs over a thirty year stretch. That's not even .5 QBs per year. It doesn't happen very often. Again, Ghost is looking at it simplistically. Did he not consider the effect of leaving a dysfunctional organization and going to a good organization who knew how to help that QB become successful?

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost listed 12 QBs over a thirty year stretch. That's not even .5 QBs per year. It doesn't happen very often. Again, Ghost is looking at it simplistically. Did he not consider the effect of leaving a dysfunctional organization and going to a good organization who knew how to help that QB become successful?

Forgive me for not sifting through the history of the NFL and coming up with a more comprehensive list for you. And it was actually only 9, and not 12.

My point was a simple one (and I'll include the facts you failed to mention):

1.) Alex Smith's record as an NFL starting QB is 17-30
2.) I'm fairly confident we can find someone/anyone to match/exceed those numbers
3.) In response to your statement "As for free agents, what team in their right mind cuts a franchise QB loose?" Off the top of my head, I listed 9 QBs that were either released, traded or allowed to walk in free agency, that have put up amazing numbers. There are plenty more, but that's a good start given the number of HoFers, SB champs and all-time passer rating leaders that are in that list of 9.
4.) I didn't say that you should just consider signing a free agent (as if that was the only way...I said, "either through the draft or free agency."
5.) Fine, so you don't like free agency. Here's a list of recently drafted college QBs (last 5 years) that have either already led their teams to the playoffs or are putting up very good numbers and are well on their way to becoming franchise QBs:

- Vince Young (top rated passer in the NFL)
- Matt Ryan (led his team to the playoffs as a rookie)
- Mark Sanchez (on his way to leading his team to the playoffs 2 years in a row)
- Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season)
- Josh Freeman (5-2 record, tied for 1st in the NFC South)
- Matthew Stafford (89.2 PR; would rank him 12th in the NFL if not for injury)
- Sam Bradford (4 wins as a starting QB; that's 3 more than Alex has this year)

That's not even counting guys like Kyle Orton (7th rated passer in the league) that were drafted in Alex's class like, or Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers who were drafted the year before, or Carson Palmer a few years earlier.

You act like it's impossible (or worse yet, even unnecessary) to find Alex's replacement. Btw, I realize this is a dysfunctional organization....but guess what, life is tough. You can either cry about it and find Alexcuses, or you can act like a man and win games in the face of it (see Troy Smith).

Ghost, since I know you think Alex is not good, you will agree that ever since Jeff Garcia, this organization has not stumbled across a good QB. So, yes, this organization does have a really hard time finding a good one.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost listed 12 QBs over a thirty year stretch. That's not even .5 QBs per year. It doesn't happen very often. Again, Ghost is looking at it simplistically. Did he not consider the effect of leaving a dysfunctional organization and going to a good organization who knew how to help that QB become successful?

Forgive me for not sifting through the history of the NFL and coming up with a more comprehensive list for you. And it was actually only 9, and not 12.

My point was a simple one (and I'll include the facts you failed to mention):

1.) Alex Smith's record as an NFL starting QB is 17-30
2.) I'm fairly confident we can find someone/anyone to match/exceed those numbers
3.) In response to your statement "As for free agents, what team in their right mind cuts a franchise QB loose?" Off the top of my head, I listed 9 QBs that were either released, traded or allowed to walk in free agency, that have put up amazing numbers. There are plenty more, but that's a good start given the number of HoFers, SB champs and all-time passer rating leaders that are in that list of 9.
4.) I didn't say that you should just consider signing a free agent (as if that was the only way...I said, "either through the draft or free agency."
5.) Fine, so you don't like free agency. Here's a list of recently drafted college QBs (last 5 years) that have either already led their teams to the playoffs or are putting up very good numbers and are well on their way to becoming franchise QBs:

- Vince Young (top rated passer in the NFL)
- Matt Ryan (led his team to the playoffs as a rookie)
- Mark Sanchez (on his way to leading his team to the playoffs 2 years in a row)
- Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season)
- Josh Freeman (5-2 record, tied for 1st in the NFC South)
- Matthew Stafford (89.2 PR; would rank him 12th in the NFL if not for injury)
- Sam Bradford (4 wins as a starting QB; that's 3 more than Alex has this year)

That's not even counting guys like Kyle Orton (7th rated passer in the league) that were drafted in Alex's class like, or Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers who were drafted the year before, or Carson Palmer a few years earlier.

You act like it's impossible (or worse yet, even unnecessary) to find Alex's replacement. Btw, I realize this is a dysfunctional organization....but guess what, life is tough. You can either cry about it and find Alexcuses, or you can act like a man and win games in the face of it (see Troy Smith).

I like Troy but lets not crown his ass yet. Technically he's only win "game" in the face of it, not "games". Lets hope he can keep it up but Denver's not very good. I'm not going to get ultra excited like I did for Shaun Hill and JTO when they looked competent, because NFL DCs will get our film of what Troy Smith does and doesn't do well and they'll try to figure out how to stop him or contain him. Even last year Alex Smith looked like the answer for a few games/little while, than DCs exploited his weaknesses this year(took away the middle of the field) and he sucked. They did the same thing with Shaun Hill, they put 8 in the box and forced him to make tough throws. So lets wait a while until we say "ZOMG THIS DUDE IS BEAST". Hopefully he can be the 2nd coming of Garcia but he needs to prove himself a lot more.

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost, since I know you think Alex is not good, you will agree that ever since Jeff Garcia, this organization has not stumbled across a good QB. So, yes, this organization does have a really hard time finding a good one.

This organization has committed (financially and otherwise) to Smith since 2005, which means they haven't really been looking for a quality replacement. He's been thee guy at QB first for Nolan and then for Singletary...and of course, he got one fired and the next is one the way.

Thankfully, that will change after this season.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost listed 12 QBs over a thirty year stretch. That's not even .5 QBs per year. It doesn't happen very often. Again, Ghost is looking at it simplistically. Did he not consider the effect of leaving a dysfunctional organization and going to a good organization who knew how to help that QB become successful?

Forgive me for not sifting through the history of the NFL and coming up with a more comprehensive list for you. And it was actually only 9, and not 12.

My point was a simple one (and I'll include the facts you failed to mention):

1.) Alex Smith's record as an NFL starting QB is 17-30
2.) I'm fairly confident we can find someone/anyone to match/exceed those numbers
3.) In response to your statement "As for free agents, what team in their right mind cuts a franchise QB loose?" Off the top of my head, I listed 9 QBs that were either released, traded or allowed to walk in free agency, that have put up amazing numbers. There are plenty more, but that's a good start given the number of HoFers, SB champs and all-time passer rating leaders that are in that list of 9.
4.) I didn't say that you should just consider signing a free agent (as if that was the only way...I said, "either through the draft or free agency."
5.) Fine, so you don't like free agency. Here's a list of recently drafted college QBs (last 5 years) that have either already led their teams to the playoffs or are putting up very good numbers and are well on their way to becoming franchise QBs:

- Vince Young (top rated passer in the NFL)
- Matt Ryan (led his team to the playoffs as a rookie)
- Mark Sanchez (on his way to leading his team to the playoffs 2 years in a row)
- Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season)
- Josh Freeman (5-2 record, tied for 1st in the NFC South)
- Matthew Stafford (89.2 PR; would rank him 12th in the NFL if not for injury)
- Sam Bradford (4 wins as a starting QB; that's 3 more than Alex has this year)

That's not even counting guys like Kyle Orton (7th rated passer in the league) that were drafted in Alex's class like, or Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers who were drafted the year before, or Carson Palmer a few years earlier.

You act like it's impossible (or worse yet, even unnecessary) to find Alex's replacement. Btw, I realize this is a dysfunctional organization....but guess what, life is tough. You can either cry about it and find Alexcuses, or you can act like a man and win games in the face of it (see Troy Smith).

I like Troy but lets not crown his ass yet. Technically he's only win "game" in the face of it, not "games". Lets hope he can keep it up but Denver's not very good. I'm not going to get ultra excited like I did for Shaun Hill and JTO when they looked competent, because NFL DCs will get our film of what Troy Smith does and doesn't do well and they'll try to figure out how to stop him or contain him. Even last year Alex Smith looked like the answer for a few games/little while, than DCs exploited his weaknesses this year(took away the middle of the field) and he sucked. They did the same thing with Shaun Hill, they put 8 in the box and forced him to make tough throws. So lets wait a while until we say "ZOMG THIS DUDE IS BEAST". Hopefully he can be the 2nd coming of Garcia but he needs to prove himself a lot more.

Dude...how many times do I have to say it. NOBODY IS CROWNING TROY SMITH. I've said it in post after post...nobody in his right mind is crowning him. Just because I (or someone else) post something positive about TSmith, doesn't mean we think he's the next Joe. I seriously don't understand how people keep leaping to that assumption.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost, since I know you think Alex is not good, you will agree that ever since Jeff Garcia, this organization has not stumbled across a good QB. So, yes, this organization does have a really hard time finding a good one.

This organization has committed (financially and otherwise) to Smith since 2005, which means they haven't really been looking for a quality replacement. He's been thee guy at QB first for Nolan and then for Singletary...and of course, he got one fired and the next is one the way.

Thankfully, that will change after this season.

Wait a second, that's a bit of revisionist history. Smith was in a competition for his job in 08, which meant they thought they might have another guy. And Martz specifically brought in JTO because he thought he'd be a good starter. Smith wasn't even a factor the year Nolan got fired. And last time I checked Shaun Hill didn't do any better than Smith last year, both posted .500 records. Now Shaun posted good numbers in Detroit as a decent back up. Sing had a chance to get McNabb this year, and draft a guy like McCoy or Clausen as a contingency plan, he didn't do either of those. He had Shaun Hill penciled in as his #1 guy going into 2009 also, and that didn't work out for him either.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost listed 12 QBs over a thirty year stretch. That's not even .5 QBs per year. It doesn't happen very often. Again, Ghost is looking at it simplistically. Did he not consider the effect of leaving a dysfunctional organization and going to a good organization who knew how to help that QB become successful?

Forgive me for not sifting through the history of the NFL and coming up with a more comprehensive list for you. And it was actually only 9, and not 12.

My point was a simple one (and I'll include the facts you failed to mention):

1.) Alex Smith's record as an NFL starting QB is 17-30
2.) I'm fairly confident we can find someone/anyone to match/exceed those numbers
3.) In response to your statement "As for free agents, what team in their right mind cuts a franchise QB loose?" Off the top of my head, I listed 9 QBs that were either released, traded or allowed to walk in free agency, that have put up amazing numbers. There are plenty more, but that's a good start given the number of HoFers, SB champs and all-time passer rating leaders that are in that list of 9.
4.) I didn't say that you should just consider signing a free agent (as if that was the only way...I said, "either through the draft or free agency."
5.) Fine, so you don't like free agency. Here's a list of recently drafted college QBs (last 5 years) that have either already led their teams to the playoffs or are putting up very good numbers and are well on their way to becoming franchise QBs:

- Vince Young (top rated passer in the NFL)
- Matt Ryan (led his team to the playoffs as a rookie)
- Mark Sanchez (on his way to leading his team to the playoffs 2 years in a row)
- Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season)
- Josh Freeman (5-2 record, tied for 1st in the NFC South)
- Matthew Stafford (89.2 PR; would rank him 12th in the NFL if not for injury)
- Sam Bradford (4 wins as a starting QB; that's 3 more than Alex has this year)

That's not even counting guys like Kyle Orton (7th rated passer in the league) that were drafted in Alex's class like, or Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers who were drafted the year before, or Carson Palmer a few years earlier.

You act like it's impossible (or worse yet, even unnecessary) to find Alex's replacement. Btw, I realize this is a dysfunctional organization....but guess what, life is tough. You can either cry about it and find Alexcuses, or you can act like a man and win games in the face of it (see Troy Smith).

I like Troy but lets not crown his ass yet. Technically he's only win "game" in the face of it, not "games". Lets hope he can keep it up but Denver's not very good. I'm not going to get ultra excited like I did for Shaun Hill and JTO when they looked competent, because NFL DCs will get our film of what Troy Smith does and doesn't do well and they'll try to figure out how to stop him or contain him. Even last year Alex Smith looked like the answer for a few games/little while, than DCs exploited his weaknesses this year(took away the middle of the field) and he sucked. They did the same thing with Shaun Hill, they put 8 in the box and forced him to make tough throws. So lets wait a while until we say "ZOMG THIS DUDE IS BEAST". Hopefully he can be the 2nd coming of Garcia but he needs to prove himself a lot more.

Dude...how many times do I have to say it. NOBODY IS CROWNING TROY SMITH. I've said it in post after post...nobody in his right mind is crowning him. Just because I (or someone else) post something positive about TSmith, doesn't mean we think he's the next Joe. I seriously don't understand how people keep leaping to that assumption.

Well you act like he's already won multiple games, when you said "you can win games in the face of it like T. Smith". I like him, probably better than Alex Smith who I'm pretty much done with at this point, but we have been so horrible at finding good QBs ever since Garcia was let go that I'm not going to crown him yet. That's all I'm saying. He's won one game vs a bad team, hopefully he can win some more.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost, since I know you think Alex is not good, you will agree that ever since Jeff Garcia, this organization has not stumbled across a good QB. So, yes, this organization does have a really hard time finding a good one.

This organization has committed (financially and otherwise) to Smith since 2005, which means they haven't really been looking for a quality replacement. He's been thee guy at QB first for Nolan and then for Singletary...and of course, he got one fired and the next is one the way.

Thankfully, that will change after this season.

Wait a second, that's a bit of revisionist history. Smith was in a competition for his job in 08, which meant they thought they might have another guy. And Martz specifically brought in JTO because he thought he'd be a good starter. Smith wasn't even a factor the year Nolan got fired. And last time I checked Shaun Hill didn't do any better than Smith last year, both posted .500 records. Now Shaun posted good numbers in Detroit as a decent back up. Sing had a chance to get McNabb this year, and draft a guy like McCoy or Clausen as a contingency plan, he didn't do either of those. He had Shaun Hill penciled in as his #1 guy going into 2009 also, and that didn't work out for him either.

JTO, Shaun Hill...competition???



Both were brought in as BACKUPS, because that's all they are and all they will ever be (not unlike Smith, after this season). Smith either played so poorly or was injured (obviously not his fault in that case) that he lost his job to the likes of Dilfer, JTO and Shaun Hill.

My point (which is in response to excelsior): They (Nolan or Singletary) have never REALLY looked for a quality starter to challenge/replace Smith. They brought in scrubs as backups (someone had to play 2nd/3rd string here), and those guys eventually took over.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost listed 12 QBs over a thirty year stretch. That's not even .5 QBs per year. It doesn't happen very often. Again, Ghost is looking at it simplistically. Did he not consider the effect of leaving a dysfunctional organization and going to a good organization who knew how to help that QB become successful?

Forgive me for not sifting through the history of the NFL and coming up with a more comprehensive list for you. And it was actually only 9, and not 12.

My point was a simple one (and I'll include the facts you failed to mention):

1.) Alex Smith's record as an NFL starting QB is 17-30
2.) I'm fairly confident we can find someone/anyone to match/exceed those numbers
3.) In response to your statement "As for free agents, what team in their right mind cuts a franchise QB loose?" Off the top of my head, I listed 9 QBs that were either released, traded or allowed to walk in free agency, that have put up amazing numbers. There are plenty more, but that's a good start given the number of HoFers, SB champs and all-time passer rating leaders that are in that list of 9.
4.) I didn't say that you should just consider signing a free agent (as if that was the only way...I said, "either through the draft or free agency."
5.) Fine, so you don't like free agency. Here's a list of recently drafted college QBs (last 5 years) that have either already led their teams to the playoffs or are putting up very good numbers and are well on their way to becoming franchise QBs:

- Vince Young (top rated passer in the NFL)
- Matt Ryan (led his team to the playoffs as a rookie)
- Mark Sanchez (on his way to leading his team to the playoffs 2 years in a row)
- Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season)
- Josh Freeman (5-2 record, tied for 1st in the NFC South)
- Matthew Stafford (89.2 PR; would rank him 12th in the NFL if not for injury)
- Sam Bradford (4 wins as a starting QB; that's 3 more than Alex has this year)

That's not even counting guys like Kyle Orton (7th rated passer in the league) that were drafted in Alex's class like, or Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers who were drafted the year before, or Carson Palmer a few years earlier.

You act like it's impossible (or worse yet, even unnecessary) to find Alex's replacement. Btw, I realize this is a dysfunctional organization....but guess what, life is tough. You can either cry about it and find Alexcuses, or you can act like a man and win games in the face of it (see Troy Smith).

I like Troy but lets not crown his ass yet. Technically he's only win "game" in the face of it, not "games". Lets hope he can keep it up but Denver's not very good. I'm not going to get ultra excited like I did for Shaun Hill and JTO when they looked competent, because NFL DCs will get our film of what Troy Smith does and doesn't do well and they'll try to figure out how to stop him or contain him. Even last year Alex Smith looked like the answer for a few games/little while, than DCs exploited his weaknesses this year(took away the middle of the field) and he sucked. They did the same thing with Shaun Hill, they put 8 in the box and forced him to make tough throws. So lets wait a while until we say "ZOMG THIS DUDE IS BEAST". Hopefully he can be the 2nd coming of Garcia but he needs to prove himself a lot more.

Dude...how many times do I have to say it. NOBODY IS CROWNING TROY SMITH. I've said it in post after post...nobody in his right mind is crowning him. Just because I (or someone else) post something positive about TSmith, doesn't mean we think he's the next Joe. I seriously don't understand how people keep leaping to that assumption.

Well you act like he's already won multiple games, when you said "you can win games in the face of it like T. Smith". I like him, probably better than Alex Smith who I'm pretty much done with at this point, but we have been so horrible at finding good QBs ever since Garcia was let go that I'm not going to crown him yet. That's all I'm saying. He's won one game vs a bad team, hopefully he can win some more.

We're on the same page. You're just reading into what I'm saying for whatever reason. I'll say it one more time....nobody in his right mind would crown a guy after 1 win. My point was, Troy had a s**tload of adversity to face going against Denver, and he managed to win it. No excuses, no whining and no crying. That's the extent of my knowledge/projection of Troy Smith as a QB in the NFL.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost, since I know you think Alex is not good, you will agree that ever since Jeff Garcia, this organization has not stumbled across a good QB. So, yes, this organization does have a really hard time finding a good one.

This organization has committed (financially and otherwise) to Smith since 2005, which means they haven't really been looking for a quality replacement. He's been thee guy at QB first for Nolan and then for Singletary...and of course, he got one fired and the next is one the way.

Thankfully, that will change after this season.

Wait a second, that's a bit of revisionist history. Smith was in a competition for his job in 08, which meant they thought they might have another guy. And Martz specifically brought in JTO because he thought he'd be a good starter. Smith wasn't even a factor the year Nolan got fired. And last time I checked Shaun Hill didn't do any better than Smith last year, both posted .500 records. Now Shaun posted good numbers in Detroit as a decent back up. Sing had a chance to get McNabb this year, and draft a guy like McCoy or Clausen as a contingency plan, he didn't do either of those. He had Shaun Hill penciled in as his #1 guy going into 2009 also, and that didn't work out for him either.

JTO, Shaun Hill...competition???



Both were brought in as BACKUPS, because that's all they are and all they will ever be (not unlike Smith, after this season). Smith either played so poorly or was injured (obviously not his fault in that case) that he lost his job to the likes of Dilfer, JTO and Shaun Hill.

My point (which is in response to excelsior): They (Nolan or Singletary) have never REALLY looked for a quality starter to challenge/replace Smith. They brought in scrubs as backups (someone had to play 2nd/3rd string here), and those guys eventually took over.

Yeah but my point was that they went in as a competition or with Shaun Hill as the #1 guy in 2009, and everybody thought it would be Shaun Hill to start the season because the players had his back because he finished 08 so well. So it's not all on Alex. He sucks but we could've looked for a better option earlier. I honestly feel like he was better as a 2nd year player in 06, atleast he could make more throws.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost listed 12 QBs over a thirty year stretch. That's not even .5 QBs per year. It doesn't happen very often. Again, Ghost is looking at it simplistically. Did he not consider the effect of leaving a dysfunctional organization and going to a good organization who knew how to help that QB become successful?

Forgive me for not sifting through the history of the NFL and coming up with a more comprehensive list for you. And it was actually only 9, and not 12.

My point was a simple one (and I'll include the facts you failed to mention):

1.) Alex Smith's record as an NFL starting QB is 17-30
2.) I'm fairly confident we can find someone/anyone to match/exceed those numbers
3.) In response to your statement "As for free agents, what team in their right mind cuts a franchise QB loose?" Off the top of my head, I listed 9 QBs that were either released, traded or allowed to walk in free agency, that have put up amazing numbers. There are plenty more, but that's a good start given the number of HoFers, SB champs and all-time passer rating leaders that are in that list of 9.
4.) I didn't say that you should just consider signing a free agent (as if that was the only way...I said, "either through the draft or free agency."
5.) Fine, so you don't like free agency. Here's a list of recently drafted college QBs (last 5 years) that have either already led their teams to the playoffs or are putting up very good numbers and are well on their way to becoming franchise QBs:

- Vince Young (top rated passer in the NFL)
- Matt Ryan (led his team to the playoffs as a rookie)
- Mark Sanchez (on his way to leading his team to the playoffs 2 years in a row)
- Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season)
- Josh Freeman (5-2 record, tied for 1st in the NFC South)
- Matthew Stafford (89.2 PR; would rank him 12th in the NFL if not for injury)
- Sam Bradford (4 wins as a starting QB; that's 3 more than Alex has this year)

That's not even counting guys like Kyle Orton (7th rated passer in the league) that were drafted in Alex's class like, or Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers who were drafted the year before, or Carson Palmer a few years earlier.

You act like it's impossible (or worse yet, even unnecessary) to find Alex's replacement. Btw, I realize this is a dysfunctional organization....but guess what, life is tough. You can either cry about it and find Alexcuses, or you can act like a man and win games in the face of it (see Troy Smith).

I like Troy but lets not crown his ass yet. Technically he's only win "game" in the face of it, not "games". Lets hope he can keep it up but Denver's not very good. I'm not going to get ultra excited like I did for Shaun Hill and JTO when they looked competent, because NFL DCs will get our film of what Troy Smith does and doesn't do well and they'll try to figure out how to stop him or contain him. Even last year Alex Smith looked like the answer for a few games/little while, than DCs exploited his weaknesses this year(took away the middle of the field) and he sucked. They did the same thing with Shaun Hill, they put 8 in the box and forced him to make tough throws. So lets wait a while until we say "ZOMG THIS DUDE IS BEAST". Hopefully he can be the 2nd coming of Garcia but he needs to prove himself a lot more.

Dude...how many times do I have to say it. NOBODY IS CROWNING TROY SMITH. I've said it in post after post...nobody in his right mind is crowning him. Just because I (or someone else) post something positive about TSmith, doesn't mean we think he's the next Joe. I seriously don't understand how people keep leaping to that assumption.

Well you act like he's already won multiple games, when you said "you can win games in the face of it like T. Smith". I like him, probably better than Alex Smith who I'm pretty much done with at this point, but we have been so horrible at finding good QBs ever since Garcia was let go that I'm not going to crown him yet. That's all I'm saying. He's won one game vs a bad team, hopefully he can win some more.

We're on the same page. You're just reading into what I'm saying for whatever reason. I'll say it one more time....nobody in his right mind would crown a guy after 1 win. My point was, Troy had a s**tload of adversity to face going against Denver, and he managed to win it. No excuses, no whining and no crying. That's the extent of my knowledge/projection of Troy Smith as a QB in the NFL.

Sounds good. Hopefully he can get the job done. I'm really torn because I don't think Singletary is a good coach, but I like T. Smith and most of our players. So I'm leery of if T. Smith wins a bunch of games but we don't make the playoffs, and then Sing keeps his job another year. I want to draft a guy this year atleast unless he leads an amazing 2nd half comeback.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost, since I know you think Alex is not good, you will agree that ever since Jeff Garcia, this organization has not stumbled across a good QB. So, yes, this organization does have a really hard time finding a good one.

This organization has committed (financially and otherwise) to Smith since 2005, which means they haven't really been looking for a quality replacement. He's been thee guy at QB first for Nolan and then for Singletary...and of course, he got one fired and the next is one the way.

Thankfully, that will change after this season.

Wait a second, that's a bit of revisionist history. Smith was in a competition for his job in 08, which meant they thought they might have another guy. And Martz specifically brought in JTO because he thought he'd be a good starter. Smith wasn't even a factor the year Nolan got fired. And last time I checked Shaun Hill didn't do any better than Smith last year, both posted .500 records. Now Shaun posted good numbers in Detroit as a decent back up. Sing had a chance to get McNabb this year, and draft a guy like McCoy or Clausen as a contingency plan, he didn't do either of those. He had Shaun Hill penciled in as his #1 guy going into 2009 also, and that didn't work out for him either.

JTO, Shaun Hill...competition???



Both were brought in as BACKUPS, because that's all they are and all they will ever be (not unlike Smith, after this season). Smith either played so poorly or was injured (obviously not his fault in that case) that he lost his job to the likes of Dilfer, JTO and Shaun Hill.

My point (which is in response to excelsior): They (Nolan or Singletary) have never REALLY looked for a quality starter to challenge/replace Smith. They brought in scrubs as backups (someone had to play 2nd/3rd string here), and those guys eventually took over.

Yeah but my point was that they went in as a competition or with Shaun Hill as the #1 guy in 2009, and everybody thought it would be Shaun Hill to start the season because the players had his back because he finished 08 so well. So it's not all on Alex. He sucks but we could've looked for a better option earlier. I honestly feel like he was better as a 2nd year player in 06, atleast he could make more throws.

Which was my point exactly. They didn't because the coaching staff/ownership was committed to Alex. Using a high pick to draft a QB would've been real competition...signing/trading for a frontline veteran would've been real competition.

So it's not correct to say that this organization has been unable to find a quality QB since Garcia left. It's more accurate to say, other than drafting Alex Smith #1 in '05, they haven't really been looking.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by excelsior:
Ghost listed 12 QBs over a thirty year stretch. That's not even .5 QBs per year. It doesn't happen very often. Again, Ghost is looking at it simplistically. Did he not consider the effect of leaving a dysfunctional organization and going to a good organization who knew how to help that QB become successful?

Forgive me for not sifting through the history of the NFL and coming up with a more comprehensive list for you. And it was actually only 9, and not 12.

My point was a simple one (and I'll include the facts you failed to mention):

1.) Alex Smith's record as an NFL starting QB is 17-30
2.) I'm fairly confident we can find someone/anyone to match/exceed those numbers
3.) In response to your statement "As for free agents, what team in their right mind cuts a franchise QB loose?" Off the top of my head, I listed 9 QBs that were either released, traded or allowed to walk in free agency, that have put up amazing numbers. There are plenty more, but that's a good start given the number of HoFers, SB champs and all-time passer rating leaders that are in that list of 9.
4.) I didn't say that you should just consider signing a free agent (as if that was the only way...I said, "either through the draft or free agency."
5.) Fine, so you don't like free agency. Here's a list of recently drafted college QBs (last 5 years) that have either already led their teams to the playoffs or are putting up very good numbers and are well on their way to becoming franchise QBs:

- Vince Young (top rated passer in the NFL)
- Matt Ryan (led his team to the playoffs as a rookie)
- Mark Sanchez (on his way to leading his team to the playoffs 2 years in a row)
- Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season)
- Josh Freeman (5-2 record, tied for 1st in the NFC South)
- Matthew Stafford (89.2 PR; would rank him 12th in the NFL if not for injury)
- Sam Bradford (4 wins as a starting QB; that's 3 more than Alex has this year)

That's not even counting guys like Kyle Orton (7th rated passer in the league) that were drafted in Alex's class like, or Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers who were drafted the year before, or Carson Palmer a few years earlier.

You act like it's impossible (or worse yet, even unnecessary) to find Alex's replacement. Btw, I realize this is a dysfunctional organization....but guess what, life is tough. You can either cry about it and find Alexcuses, or you can act like a man and win games in the face of it (see Troy Smith).

I like Troy but lets not crown his ass yet. Technically he's only win "game" in the face of it, not "games". Lets hope he can keep it up but Denver's not very good. I'm not going to get ultra excited like I did for Shaun Hill and JTO when they looked competent, because NFL DCs will get our film of what Troy Smith does and doesn't do well and they'll try to figure out how to stop him or contain him. Even last year Alex Smith looked like the answer for a few games/little while, than DCs exploited his weaknesses this year(took away the middle of the field) and he sucked. They did the same thing with Shaun Hill, they put 8 in the box and forced him to make tough throws. So lets wait a while until we say "ZOMG THIS DUDE IS BEAST". Hopefully he can be the 2nd coming of Garcia but he needs to prove himself a lot more.

Dude...how many times do I have to say it. NOBODY IS CROWNING TROY SMITH. I've said it in post after post...nobody in his right mind is crowning him. Just because I (or someone else) post something positive about TSmith, doesn't mean we think he's the next Joe. I seriously don't understand how people keep leaping to that assumption.

Well you act like he's already won multiple games, when you said "you can win games in the face of it like T. Smith". I like him, probably better than Alex Smith who I'm pretty much done with at this point, but we have been so horrible at finding good QBs ever since Garcia was let go that I'm not going to crown him yet. That's all I'm saying. He's won one game vs a bad team, hopefully he can win some more.

We're on the same page. You're just reading into what I'm saying for whatever reason. I'll say it one more time....nobody in his right mind would crown a guy after 1 win. My point was, Troy had a s**tload of adversity to face going against Denver, and he managed to win it. No excuses, no whining and no crying. That's the extent of my knowledge/projection of Troy Smith as a QB in the NFL.

Sounds good. Hopefully he can get the job done. I'm really torn because I don't think Singletary is a good coach, but I like T. Smith and most of our players. So I'm leery of if T. Smith wins a bunch of games but we don't make the playoffs, and then Sing keeps his job another year. I want to draft a guy this year atleast unless he leads an amazing 2nd half comeback.

Though I would love for us to win out the remaining 8 games, it's just not realistic. So my realistic hopes are:

1.) TSmith leads us to a 7-9 or 6-10 record
2.) Singletary gets fired
3.) We trade up to get a quality 1st round QB
4.) TSmith starts the 2011 season, keeping the seat warm for our franchise QB

Once can dream....

everyone one screamed 49ers but crabtree's cheeks didn't move. Guess he didn't say it