Alex's Injury?

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
An obvious point that must be made about the GB receivers is that they are faster than the 49er receivers, hence they are more often open on deeper routes. Jennings and Jones are faster than any of the 49er WRs. Donald Driver, though he has lost a step is a master at the 12-20 yard depth over the middle, and area that Michael Crabtree has so far avoided like the plague.

Should be painfully obvious... not even to mention speed. These guys that Rodgers have are elite when it comes to getting open and making efforts on the ball that our boys only dream of. Rodgers is the perfect, current example of a silver-spoon fed QB... and it shows most of the time.

They are one of the best, and most balanced set of receivers in the league. Also, Mike McCarthy has had that unit intact for four years now. The only new member is Jermichael Finley and he is now out, replaced by Donald Lee who has been there for quite a while as well.

So combine quality, experienced receivers with a coach who has a clear, solid, pass-oriented offense and the QB will put up some nice numbers.

Even so, Rodgers has been far from excellent his last two games. He has now dropped to #12 in the ratings. But you're right. He came into the perfect set-up to develop his skills without the immediate pressure of having to win.

Rodgers make those receivers look a lot better than they really are. Elite ? I doubt it. You guys have some serious emotional investment in Smith. You've completely reversed the role of a QB.......you now hold the rest of the team accountable when it comes to how "great" a QB can be, and that simply is not the case. A good team can make a bad QB look good (Ravens of 2000), but a good QB can make an bad to average team great (Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, etc.)

Teams like the Ravens, Saints, Falcons, and even St. Louis played like s**t until their "star" QBs signed on. Of course, you'll excuse those QBs' good play by claiming that "their olines played great", "they played under one system", "WRs were elite", etc.

Pathetic.......

WOW. Do you actually believe that Roddy White and Marques Colston are in the "bad to average" category? Tony Gonzalez is an "average" TE?

I have reversed nothing. I have noted the interrelationship on numerous occasions but you are only reading my posts with one eye open.

I'm out...

Marques Colston caught 70 balls last year. He's a good receiver (like Crabtree), but he's not an "elite" receiver. Roddy White is a good receiver......he's not an "elite" receiver. These guys are good players, but they do not transform their average QBs into superstars. If we go by your standards, we could easily claim that Crabtree and Vernon Davis are elite players, and therefore Alex Smith should be playing just as well as Matt Ryan and Drew Brees. But the reality is that both Ryan and Brees bring something extra to the table that not only makes them look good, but also elevates the level of their receivers game. Smith does NOT do that. Instead of acknowledging this, you in reverse are implying that it's not Smith....but rather VD and Crabtree's limitations that are holding Smith back.

I dont think so.....

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Marques Colston caught 70 balls last year. He's a good receiver (like Crabtree), but he's not an "elite" receiver. Roddy White is a good receiver......he's not an "elite" receiver.These guys are good players, but they do not transform their average QBs into superstars. If we go by your standards, we could easily claim that Crabtree and Vernon Davis are elite players, and therefore Alex Smith should be playing just as well as Matt Ryan and Drew Brees. But the reality is that both Ryan and Brees bring something extra to the table that not only makes them look good, but also elevates the level of their receivers game. Smith does NOT do that. Instead of acknowledging this, you in reverse are implying that it's not Smith....but rather VD and Crabtree's limitations that are holding Smith back.

I dont think so.....

put... the.. pipe... down...

not even to remotely mention superior scheme and OL... cuz of course, that doesn't play a part...

< more face-palm... keep it up, I'm LMAO with your BS >

Originally posted by ZRF80:


Rodgers make those receivers look a lot better than they really are. Elite ? I doubt it. You guys have some serious emotional investment in Smith. You've completely reversed the role of a QB.......you now hold the rest of the team accountable when it comes to how "great" a QB can be, and that simply is not the case. A good team can make a bad QB look good (Ravens of 2000), but a good QB can make an bad to average team great (Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, etc.)

Teams like the Ravens, Saints, Falcons, and even St. Louis played like s**t until their "star" QBs signed on. Of course, you'll excuse those QBs' good play by claiming that "their olines played great", "they played under one system", "WRs were elite", etc.

Pathetic.......

I'm not by any means a Smith supporter.... but you might need to take a good look in the mirror. Your single mindedness about the poor play of Smith is fanatical.

The game of football is more complicated than you make it out to be. All of those factors that you dismiss as "pathetic" are a part of the equation and there are other parts besides.

I know that your mind can't be changed, but at the very least... please try to keep things civil.

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Roddy White is a good receiver......he's not an "elite" receiver.

I'm sorry, I really have to call bulls**t on this one. Guy has three straight seasons with over 80 receptions and 1,100 yards. He leads the league in receptions and yards per game right now.

His breakout season? He had a combination of Joey Harrington, Byron Leftwich, and Chris Redman throwing the football.

Dude is legit.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Marques Colston caught 70 balls last year. He's a good receiver (like Crabtree), but he's not an "elite" receiver. Roddy White is a good receiver......he's not an "elite" receiver.These guys are good players, but they do not transform their average QBs into superstars. If we go by your standards, we could easily claim that Crabtree and Vernon Davis are elite players, and therefore Alex Smith should be playing just as well as Matt Ryan and Drew Brees. But the reality is that both Ryan and Brees bring something extra to the table that not only makes them look good, but also elevates the level of their receivers game. Smith does NOT do that. Instead of acknowledging this, you in reverse are implying that it's not Smith....but rather VD and Crabtree's limitations that are holding Smith back.

I dont think so.....

put... the.. pipe... down...

not even to remotely mention superior scheme and OL... cuz of course, that doesn't play a part...

< more face-palm... keep it up, I'm LMAO with your BS >

So lets make a list........

1)good receivers
2)superior scheme
3)OL

smells like Alexcuses..........

Originally posted by ZRF80:

So lets make a list....

1)good receivers
2)superior scheme
3)OL

smells like a recipe for success....

Fixed.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

The point is not to say, oh remember this set of bad/good passes. But when you take the collective body of work he is far too inconsistent to be considered a starting QB.

Just trying to get some of you to think,

"well, gee.... how come?"

rather than just simply uttering, "duh, cuz he sucks."

... but there are some of us that see that no consistent good play can be conjured up until the other 10 players on offense do their jobs with any level of competency. When that day occurs... and he still can't do his job? That will be the day the rest of us say, "yeah, okay... he just sucks."

For the record, I dont think he sucks like a vast majority of the fan base. I think he is OK. He's like the Brandon Lloyd of QBs. Under the right system he could probably put up some good numbers, occassionally good for a nice play, more of a system guy than a stand alone talent and will never be mistaken for elite at his position.

I would love for the Niners to bring back the WCO which would be the worst possible offense for Smith.

Why do you suggest this? Almost all of the teams currently running some version of the WCO use spread formations with a good degree of regularity. Andy Reid is particularly adept at it and he is closer to the Bill Walsh version than any other coaches in the league.

I see no valid reason for the assumption that Alex Smith could not operate well in the WCO.

The valid reason is that the WCO is full of slants and short routes that aren't just come back patterns. It is well established that accuracy and touch is not Smith's strong suite. In fact, it can be well argued that it's actually a serious liability. The only pass plays that Alex makes with any consistency is where the reciever has to turn around and stop. Our recievers consistently have to jump high, turn around or catch a ball behind them. Thus, there is very little opportunity to make a play after the catch.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

The point is not to say, oh remember this set of bad/good passes. But when you take the collective body of work he is far too inconsistent to be considered a starting QB.

Just trying to get some of you to think,

"well, gee.... how come?"

rather than just simply uttering, "duh, cuz he sucks."

... but there are some of us that see that no consistent good play can be conjured up until the other 10 players on offense do their jobs with any level of competency. When that day occurs... and he still can't do his job? That will be the day the rest of us say, "yeah, okay... he just sucks."

For the record, I dont think he sucks like a vast majority of the fan base. I think he is OK. He's like the Brandon Lloyd of QBs. Under the right system he could probably put up some good numbers, occassionally good for a nice play, more of a system guy than a stand alone talent and will never be mistaken for elite at his position.

I would love for the Niners to bring back the WCO which would be the worst possible offense for Smith.

Yeah, I hear you. I don't think he's amazing top 5 talent. I do think he can be a steady top 10-12-ish QB though. He's just gonna need fairly steady play and familiarity around him to make that happen. He's not a guy that can play well (aside from short stretches) despite multiple failures surrounding him. Not sure how many QBs could be that, but I know the number is very small.

As for the WC, I think he'd be better in it as opposed to prior years. I say this because his decision making is quicker than in prior years... but still, he's probably much better off not playing the WCO.

At first read I agreed with this statement. Then I thought about it over night (what a nerd I am). The only way Smith becomes a top 10-12 qb is if........

He has a very solid offensive line

He has weapons at the WR/TE position

He has a good coach in a good scheme

Then I thought to myself, what QB wouldn't succeed under those circumstances? All these guys are talented in the NFL. Look how Matt Moore looked last week because Manusky refused to pressure him. I've come to the conclusion that Smith is not talented enough to make the team around him better. He is only as good as his supporting cast (Coaches include). That my friend is the definition of an average NFL QB.

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Marques Colston caught 70 balls last year. He's a good receiver (like Crabtree), but he's not an "elite" receiver. Roddy White is a good receiver......he's not an "elite" receiver.These guys are good players, but they do not transform their average QBs into superstars. If we go by your standards, we could easily claim that Crabtree and Vernon Davis are elite players, and therefore Alex Smith should be playing just as well as Matt Ryan and Drew Brees. But the reality is that both Ryan and Brees bring something extra to the table that not only makes them look good, but also elevates the level of their receivers game. Smith does NOT do that. Instead of acknowledging this, you in reverse are implying that it's not Smith....but rather VD and Crabtree's limitations that are holding Smith back.

I dont think so.....

put... the.. pipe... down...

not even to remotely mention superior scheme and OL... cuz of course, that doesn't play a part...

< more face-palm... keep it up, I'm LMAO with your BS >

So lets make a list........

1)good receivers
2)superior scheme
3)OL

smells like Alexcuses..........

Calling those issues "Alexcuses" doesn't help the debate over the problems with the 9ers.

You tend to forget that Smith has played less than 3 seasons worth of football in the 8 years that the 49ers have sucked. Smith can't be blamed for the 08 season when he didn't play or most of his 3rd season when he got hurt. My point is that the 9ers problems aren't all on Smith which is something you continually try to place on him. That's just crazy and makes no sense at all.

deleted.

Originally posted by taney71:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Marques Colston caught 70 balls last year. He's a good receiver (like Crabtree), but he's not an "elite" receiver. Roddy White is a good receiver......he's not an "elite" receiver.These guys are good players, but they do not transform their average QBs into superstars. If we go by your standards, we could easily claim that Crabtree and Vernon Davis are elite players, and therefore Alex Smith should be playing just as well as Matt Ryan and Drew Brees. But the reality is that both Ryan and Brees bring something extra to the table that not only makes them look good, but also elevates the level of their receivers game. Smith does NOT do that. Instead of acknowledging this, you in reverse are implying that it's not Smith....but rather VD and Crabtree's limitations that are holding Smith back.

I dont think so.....

put... the.. pipe... down...

not even to remotely mention superior scheme and OL... cuz of course, that doesn't play a part...

< more face-palm... keep it up, I'm LMAO with your BS >

So lets make a list........

1)good receivers
2)superior scheme
3)OL

smells like Alexcuses..........

Calling those issues "Alexcuses" doesn't help the debate over the problems with the 9ers.

You tend to forget that Smith has played less than 3 seasons worth of football in the 8 years that the 49ers have sucked. Smith can't be blamed for the 08 season when he didn't play or most of his 3rd season when he got hurt. My point is that the 9ers problems aren't all on Smith which is something you continually try to place on him. That's just crazy and makes no sense at all.

Its not "Smith", its the QB position Smith is a part of. For the last 8 years we have started 2nd string at best QB's

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
An obvious point that must be made about the GB receivers is that they are faster than the 49er receivers, hence they are more often open on deeper routes. Jennings and Jones are faster than any of the 49er WRs. Donald Driver, though he has lost a step is a master at the 12-20 yard depth over the middle, and area that Michael Crabtree has so far avoided like the plague.

Should be painfully obvious... not even to mention speed. These guys that Rodgers have are elite when it comes to getting open and making efforts on the ball that our boys only dream of. Rodgers is the perfect, current example of a silver-spoon fed QB... and it shows most of the time.

They are one of the best, and most balanced set of receivers in the league. Also, Mike McCarthy has had that unit intact for four years now. The only new member is Jermichael Finley and he is now out, replaced by Donald Lee who has been there for quite a while as well.

So combine quality, experienced receivers with a coach who has a clear, solid, pass-oriented offense and the QB will put up some nice numbers.

Even so, Rodgers has been far from excellent his last two games. He has now dropped to #12 in the ratings. But you're right. He came into the perfect set-up to develop his skills without the immediate pressure of having to win.

Rodgers make those receivers look a lot better than they really are. Elite ? I doubt it. You guys have some serious emotional investment in Smith. You've completely reversed the role of a QB.......you now hold the rest of the team accountable when it comes to how "great" a QB can be, and that simply is not the case. A good team can make a bad QB look good (Ravens of 2000), but a good QB can make an bad to average team great (Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, etc.)

Teams like the Ravens, Saints, Falcons, and even St. Louis played like s**t until their "star" QBs signed on. Of course, you'll excuse those QBs' good play by claiming that "their olines played great", "they played under one system", "WRs were elite", etc.

Pathetic.......

WOW. Do you actually believe that Roddy White and Marques Colston are in the "bad to average" category? Tony Gonzalez is an "average" TE?

I have reversed nothing. I have noted the interrelationship on numerous occasions but you are only reading my posts with one eye open.

I'm out...

Marques Colston caught 70 balls last year. He's a good receiver (like Crabtree), but he's not an "elite" receiver. Roddy White is a good receiver......he's not an "elite" receiver. These guys are good players, but they do not transform their average QBs into superstars. If we go by your standards, we could easily claim that Crabtree and Vernon Davis are elite players, and therefore Alex Smith should be playing just as well as Matt Ryan and Drew Brees. But the reality is that both Ryan and Brees bring something extra to the table that not only makes them look good, but also elevates the level of their receivers game. Smith does NOT do that. Instead of acknowledging this, you in reverse are implying that it's not Smith....but rather VD and Crabtree's limitations that are holding Smith back.

I dont think so.....

Is this post for real ????Marques Colston is a stud . And with the 49ers OL no QB is going to play MAtt Ryann or Drew Brees .

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Marques Colston caught 70 balls last year. He's a good receiver (like Crabtree), but he's not an "elite" receiver. Roddy White is a good receiver......he's not an "elite" receiver.These guys are good players, but they do not transform their average QBs into superstars. If we go by your standards, we could easily claim that Crabtree and Vernon Davis are elite players, and therefore Alex Smith should be playing just as well as Matt Ryan and Drew Brees. But the reality is that both Ryan and Brees bring something extra to the table that not only makes them look good, but also elevates the level of their receivers game. Smith does NOT do that. Instead of acknowledging this, you in reverse are implying that it's not Smith....but rather VD and Crabtree's limitations that are holding Smith back.

I dont think so.....

put... the.. pipe... down...

not even to remotely mention superior scheme and OL... cuz of course, that doesn't play a part...

< more face-palm... keep it up, I'm LMAO with your BS >

So lets make a list........

1)good receivers
2)superior scheme
3)OL

smells like Alexcuses..........

Smells like the typical bulls**t you try and spread, my friend, you have a bright future in fertilizer.

good news with t smith is he can throw over 20 yards

Well guys.........dont let the door hit you on the way out. Good luck to ya and your boy Alex Smith....