Alex's Injury?

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Crabtree's problem is Alex Smith.

Wrong. Crabtrees problem was Crabtree.

Crappy playcalling didn't help either.

Originally posted by ZRF80:


I dont think Crabtree is the problem at all. Sure, he's young and he's still learning the ropes. IMO, whatever mistakes he makes (from his end) can be excused at this point because he's still a budding receiver. However, I dont think we can use any of this to defend Smith.

Has Crabtree been more involved in the passing game as the weeks have progressed ? Sure.

But I cant agree with anyone that says that Crabtree is the problem in our receiving game. If we had to break it down and compare Smith-Crabtree's relationship, I think we'd find more mistakes on Smith's end than Crabtree's.....

I agree completely with everything except the last sentence. I think Crabtree hurt Smith badly in the first few games. After that, I think he's been more helpful than any other receiver (minus the false starts). Basically, I think it's a wash.

There have been countless mistakes from every position on offense. I just think out of everyone, the o-line is the most responsible for our failure. Way too many mistakes for the offense to overcome. I'm not talking about the debatable ones, I mean the penalties and pass protection problems that are obviously on them. Going into last Sunday, Smith had been hit more than any other QB. That's just inexcusable.... I don't care if it's the coach or players who are responsible, I just want it fixed. No matter what QB is starting, they need to be kept safe and pressured as little as possible. Some QBs have better pocket awareness than others, but it will always make the QBs job easier if the line protects better and they can have faith in them. Plus, more time to throw means more passes down field. I think we'd all like to see that.

Whatever you think of Alex Smith, that blindside sack on max protect was not his fault. That's not the first time the line has missed a block so badly, either. If it continues, it's only a matter of time before we see another injury.

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Crabtree's problem is Alex Smith.

So the big practice field dust up between Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree was over Alex Smith?




Multiple writers reported that the entire team applauded the discipline Davis handed down. They could see that Crabtree was dogging it.

The kid hasn't learned how to be a pro yet. He STILL cuts off patterns and does not run out plays if the ball is not coming to him. All of that stuff MUST happen before he will be a reliable receiver...or does Alex have to come over and run the pattern also?

Yet, when Alex gets him involved in the pass game, Crabtree looks like a stud. As least you can excuse Crabtree's mistakes. He's still a young receiver learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. Alex is a 6 year veteran learning the ropes with flashes of brilliance. You dont see a problem with that comparison ?

Smith doesn't run the patterns or cut off the routes or fail to hold catchable balls. That is ALL on Crabtree.

One of the big complaints about Smith is his lack of consistency. OK. I agree that he does not play with the more of the consistency we all would like. However, a QB must have receivers that are consistent as well if the QB is to be able to put the ball where it can be caught. If the receiver has not yet shown that he will run the route as it is drawn up, the QB will be hesitant in making the throw. That is exactly what was happening for the first 5 games. It is only in the past two games that Crabtree has begun to run better routes...and guess what...Smith's rating has been 14 points higher than in those earlier games when Crabtree was not running consistent routes. See the relationship?

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Ok. Let's assume you're right. Let's look at it from the opposite end. How many long/intermediate passes has this guy completed if you take out the check down to Gore? As far as I can remember he has had one long pass to Davis and one to Ginn.

The point is not to say, oh remember this set of bad/good passes. But when you take the collective body of work he is far too inconsistent to be considered a starting QB.

This is an easy stat to find if you know where to look. These statistics are arranged by where the ball was thrown, not considering yards after catch. Gore has only caught passes from behind the line and 1-10 yards out.

Passes completed:

Behind line: 38

1-10 yards: 78

11-20 yards: 21

21-30 yards: 4

31-40 yards: 2

I thought it might be amusing to compare these statistics with Aaron Rodgers... for obvious reasons.

Behind line: 31

1-10 yards: 74

11-20 yards: 35

21-30 yards: 5

31-40 yards: 4

41+ yards: 1

Just as aside, I'll give Smith's completions by position:

Running Backs: 43

Tight Ends: 44

Wide Receivers: 61

Make what you will of these stats.

Personally, I've never been impressed by Smith's deep passes.

An obvious point that must be made about the GB receivers is that they are faster than the 49er receivers, hence they are more often open on deeper routes. Jennings and Jones are faster than any of the 49er WRs. Donald Driver, though he has lost a step is a master at the 12-20 yard depth over the middle, and area that Michael Crabtree has so far avoided like the plague.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

The point is not to say, oh remember this set of bad/good passes. But when you take the collective body of work he is far too inconsistent to be considered a starting QB.

Just trying to get some of you to think,

"well, gee.... how come?"

rather than just simply uttering, "duh, cuz he sucks."

... but there are some of us that see that no consistent good play can be conjured up until the other 10 players on offense do their jobs with any level of competency. When that day occurs... and he still can't do his job? That will be the day the rest of us say, "yeah, okay... he just sucks."

For the record, I dont think he sucks like a vast majority of the fan base. I think he is OK. He's like the Brandon Lloyd of QBs. Under the right system he could probably put up some good numbers, occassionally good for a nice play, more of a system guy than a stand alone talent and will never be mistaken for elite at his position.

I would love for the Niners to bring back the WCO which would be the worst possible offense for Smith.

Why do you suggest this? Almost all of the teams currently running some version of the WCO use spread formations with a good degree of regularity. Andy Reid is particularly adept at it and he is closer to the Bill Walsh version than any other coaches in the league.

I see no valid reason for the assumption that Alex Smith could not operate well in the WCO.

Originally posted by dj43:
An obvious point that must be made about the GB receivers is that they are faster than the 49er receivers, hence they are more often open on deeper routes. Jennings and Jones are faster than any of the 49er WRs. Donald Driver, though he has lost a step is a master at the 12-20 yard depth over the middle, and area that Michael Crabtree has so far avoided like the plague.

Should be painfully obvious... not even to mention speed. These guys that Rodgers have are elite when it comes to getting open and making efforts on the ball that our boys only dream of. Rodgers is the perfect, current example of a silver-spoon fed QB... and it shows most of the time.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
An obvious point that must be made about the GB receivers is that they are faster than the 49er receivers, hence they are more often open on deeper routes. Jennings and Jones are faster than any of the 49er WRs. Donald Driver, though he has lost a step is a master at the 12-20 yard depth over the middle, and area that Michael Crabtree has so far avoided like the plague.

Should be painfully obvious... not even to mention speed. These guys that Rodgers have are elite when it comes to getting open and making efforts on the ball that our boys only dream of. Rodgers is the perfect, current example of a silver-spoon fed QB... and it shows most of the time.

They are one of the best, and most balanced set of receivers in the league. Also, Mike McCarthy has had that unit intact for four years now. The only new member is Jermichael Finley and he is now out, replaced by Donald Lee who has been there for quite a while as well.

So combine quality, experienced receivers with a coach who has a clear, solid, pass-oriented offense and the QB will put up some nice numbers.

Even so, Rodgers has been far from excellent his last two games. He has now dropped to #12 in the ratings. But you're right. He came into the perfect set-up to develop his skills without the immediate pressure of having to win.

Originally posted by dj43:
An obvious point that must be made about the GB receivers is that they are faster than the 49er receivers, hence they are more often open on deeper routes. Jennings and Jones are faster than any of the 49er WRs. Donald Driver, though he has lost a step is a master at the 12-20 yard depth over the middle, and area that Michael Crabtree has so far avoided like the plague.

Well, faster with the exception of Ginn, maybe.

I think that fact, combined with limited time to throw make it harder for us no matter who is at QB.

Still, I'm not impressed with Smith's deep passes. They don't have that arc that you want to have them drop over the CB and give the WR time to adjust. He tends to throw them on a rope... and not the most accurate rope, either.

I'm actually surprised the numbers are as close as they are.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by dj43:
An obvious point that must be made about the GB receivers is that they are faster than the 49er receivers, hence they are more often open on deeper routes. Jennings and Jones are faster than any of the 49er WRs. Donald Driver, though he has lost a step is a master at the 12-20 yard depth over the middle, and area that Michael Crabtree has so far avoided like the plague.

Well, faster with the exception of Ginn, maybe.

I think that fact, combined with limited time to throw make it harder for us no matter who is at QB.

Still, I'm not impressed with Smith's deep passes. They don't have that arc that you want to have them drop over the CB and give the WR time to adjust. He tends to throw them on a rope... and not the most accurate rope, either.

I'm actually surprised the numbers are as close as they are.

He could do better perhaps, but I'm reminded of the perfect rainbow to VD vs the Saints' #1 CB... and many other perfect touch, deep balls last season.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
An obvious point that must be made about the GB receivers is that they are faster than the 49er receivers, hence they are more often open on deeper routes. Jennings and Jones are faster than any of the 49er WRs. Donald Driver, though he has lost a step is a master at the 12-20 yard depth over the middle, and area that Michael Crabtree has so far avoided like the plague.

Should be painfully obvious... not even to mention speed. These guys that Rodgers have are elite when it comes to getting open and making efforts on the ball that our boys only dream of. Rodgers is the perfect, current example of a silver-spoon fed QB... and it shows most of the time.

They are one of the best, and most balanced set of receivers in the league. Also, Mike McCarthy has had that unit intact for four years now. The only new member is Jermichael Finley and he is now out, replaced by Donald Lee who has been there for quite a while as well.

So combine quality, experienced receivers with a coach who has a clear, solid, pass-oriented offense and the QB will put up some nice numbers.

Even so, Rodgers has been far from excellent his last two games. He has now dropped to #12 in the ratings. But you're right. He came into the perfect set-up to develop his skills without the immediate pressure of having to win.

Rodgers make those receivers look a lot better than they really are. Elite ? I doubt it. You guys have some serious emotional investment in Smith. You've completely reversed the role of a QB.......you now hold the rest of the team accountable when it comes to how "great" a QB can be, and that simply is not the case. A good team can make a bad QB look good (Ravens of 2000), but a good QB can make an bad to average team great (Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, etc.)

Teams like the Ravens, Saints, Falcons, and even St. Louis played like s**t until their "star" QBs signed on. Of course, you'll excuse those QBs' good play by claiming that "their olines played great", "they played under one system", "WRs were elite", etc.

Pathetic.......

Originally posted by ZRF80:


Pathetic.......

iz you... so much so that I will let any other bother.. so pathetic as to not want to waste the time. You really believe all that horses**t you just uttered, than you fail as an intelligent football analyst.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

He could do better perhaps, but I'm reminded of the perfect rainbow to VD vs the Saints' #1 CB... and many other perfect touch, deep balls last season.

He's had a few very nice deep passes. Unfortunately, Mr. Inconsistent has had more REALLY ugly deep passes. Missing completely or making the WR adjust way too much, costing an easy TD.

Funny thing is, I remember Norv Turner saying he had the best deep ball he'd ever seen. Either Turner was crazy, lying, or Smith's injury killed his skills. It's too long ago to remember how his deep throws looked in 2006 and I don't feel like digging up highlights.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ZRF80:


Pathetic.......

iz you... so much so that I will let any other bother.. so pathetic as to not want to waste the time. You really believe all that horses**t you just uttered, than you fail as an intelligent football analyst.

Right...........as opposed to you, the most intelligent poster on the board. It's amazing. 99% percent of the Niner fanbase think Alex is not the answer. Yet the 1% like yourself think he could still be great if given the probowl talent he needs to succeed.

I wish I were as wise as you, and the 5 other people in San Francisco that think Alex is the next Montana......

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ZRF80:


Pathetic.......

iz you... so much so that I will let any other bother.. so pathetic as to not want to waste the time. You really believe all that horses**t you just uttered, than you fail as an intelligent football analyst.

Right...........as opposed to you, the most intelligent poster on the board. It's amazing. 99% percent of the Niner fanbase think Alex is not the answer. Yet the 1% like yourself think he could still be great if given the probowl talent he needs to succeed.

I wish I were as wise as you, and the 5 other people in San Francisco that think Alex is the next Montana......

I think you have had one too many to have this discussion... Lolz

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
An obvious point that must be made about the GB receivers is that they are faster than the 49er receivers, hence they are more often open on deeper routes. Jennings and Jones are faster than any of the 49er WRs. Donald Driver, though he has lost a step is a master at the 12-20 yard depth over the middle, and area that Michael Crabtree has so far avoided like the plague.

Should be painfully obvious... not even to mention speed. These guys that Rodgers have are elite when it comes to getting open and making efforts on the ball that our boys only dream of. Rodgers is the perfect, current example of a silver-spoon fed QB... and it shows most of the time.

They are one of the best, and most balanced set of receivers in the league. Also, Mike McCarthy has had that unit intact for four years now. The only new member is Jermichael Finley and he is now out, replaced by Donald Lee who has been there for quite a while as well.

So combine quality, experienced receivers with a coach who has a clear, solid, pass-oriented offense and the QB will put up some nice numbers.

Even so, Rodgers has been far from excellent his last two games. He has now dropped to #12 in the ratings. But you're right. He came into the perfect set-up to develop his skills without the immediate pressure of having to win.

Rodgers make those receivers look a lot better than they really are. Elite ? I doubt it. You guys have some serious emotional investment in Smith. You've completely reversed the role of a QB.......you now hold the rest of the team accountable when it comes to how "great" a QB can be, and that simply is not the case. A good team can make a bad QB look good (Ravens of 2000), but a good QB can make an bad to average team great (Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, etc.)

Teams like the Ravens, Saints, Falcons, and even St. Louis played like s**t until their "star" QBs signed on. Of course, you'll excuse those QBs' good play by claiming that "their olines played great", "they played under one system", "WRs were elite", etc.

Pathetic.......

WOW. Do you actually believe that Roddy White and Marques Colston are in the "bad to average" category? Tony Gonzalez is an "average" TE?

I have reversed nothing. I have noted the interrelationship on numerous occasions but you are only reading my posts with one eye open.

I'm out...