Alex's Injury?

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There are two types of people in this world. Those who have hope, passion, love, respect for others, and a desire to make the world a better place. Then there are those who have no ability to see outside of their own perspective, live selfishly, full of hatred, who do nothing but try and tear down anything and everyone around them to make their own miserable life appear to be better than it is.

Guys like fly15, susweel, shaj, joecool, etc are most certainly part of the latter group. I suppose we could try to debate you with facts, and hope to sway you to be a part of a positive fan base, but it's just not in your DNA. We realize you are simply intellectually inferior, and rather than beat our heads against a wall trying to open your minds, I for one will simply thank you. Thank you for being you, because you make the rest of us shine.

Well, Mr. 53 posts, you certainly are in a position to judge this kind of stuff, aren't you? The fact that you wrote this kind of post actually says more about you than the people you are writing about.

P.S. You don't know me, not by any stretch. Please don't pretend to.

Unlike you, Mr. 20,000 posts, I listen (read) far more than I talk (post). I've read plenty of your garbage and have taken in enough to "judge." I'm not calling any of you bad people, but the way you represent yourself on here is reprehensible.

But like oldman49er said, it's just mere trolling. And like I said, it just makes the rest of look better.

At least we can all agree that we'd like to see Troy Smith play well

Actually, this makes you look like more of an ass than anyone.

Should we add you to the list of haters as well?

And what exactly is it that we "hate" ?

Common misconception of the word "hater," thinking it is somehow linked to the definition of "hate." The term hater is an urban word, and thus, can't be defined by the standard dictionary. According to urbandictionary.com, however, "hater" can be defined as

"A label applied to people who are more negative than positive when discussing another person. It most commonly refers to individuals whose negativity is so extreme that it is all-consuming. However, there are various levels and forms of being a hater, ranging from completely dismissing any positive traits or actions, to merely painting a less than flattering picture by using words with negative connotations. Hating is often attributed to jealousy, but just as often, it seems to stem from some other source."

It is painfully obvious who this applies to on this MB.

You still didn't answer the question.

There is no way to answer "what is it that we hate?" Because I'm not saying that you hate anything. But if you're asking me what is it that makes you a hater, then read the definition of hater and you'll see. That definition describes many of you on this MB, especially when it comes to Alex Smith.

If you want to talk about things going unanswered, how about my challenge to all of you yesterday to say something positive about the team, the players, Alex, the coaches, management, etc. I don't think you have it in you, or you lost it somewhere along the way. It's pretty sad really, that you call yourself a "fan" yet your words do exactly the opposite. Everything you say is with the intent to tear the team down - you are as much a part of the problem as anything else. I never thought I'd say this about Niner fans, but the fanbase's negativity is actually making the team worse.

First off, Leathaface was right, your response post was pretty arrogant.

Secondly, if Vince Lombardi were alive and coaching this team and you spewed this "look at the bright side" and "stop being haters" garbage with him, he'd tear you a new one so fast it would make your head swim.

Winners don't tolerate this kind of bullcrap. Winners don't tolerate motivational speeches with no game planning to back it up. Winners don't tolerate #1 overall draft picks that after 6 years still play like they are in the CFL. Winners don't tolerate complacency and excuses and patience, coupled with losing records. Most of all, winners don't tolerate being mislabelled as haters, because while what they hate is all of the things above, what they truly love is winning, and that's all that counts.

If you want warm and fuzzy feel good stuff, go watch reruns of Mr. Rogers. The NFL is a business, not a message board popularity contest.

You only feel my response is "ignorant" because you don't agree.

Comparing any of us to Vince Lombardi is ridiculous. He's the COACH. No way in the world would I want my coach to be like me, the fan. If you think you're in Lombardi's league, then you are delusional. My point is that we are fans, so we should act like it.

The bottom line is the haters/trollers/etc are far too black and white. You guys attempt to make sweeping judgments about things that are far more complex than you give them credit for.

And while I post this, the SF Giants fans just gave Bengie Molina a standing ovation. He's on the Rangers now if you didn't know. That is 100% class. Something that is sorely missed from the Niner fanbase right now.

my point is, I see all the Smith apologists as complacent, and there is no room for complacency in this business. Even if you want to be euphemistic about it, you can say they are "patient". Tell me if Eddie D was patient, or if Lombardi was patient, or if Walsh was patient. There is just no room for that in today's NFL. You either produce NOW, or your ass is on the street, and our management and our fan base don't seem to get that, and it's been the single biggest differentiator between the Eddie D and the York era.

I agree with you completely about ownership and management, they should be that way. You are not ownership or management, so know your place.

We aren't complacent, or apologists, or any of the other names you call us. We're simply fans who choose to live in the gray area, and address all of our problems as team rather than attempt to place 100% of the blame on one player. Anyone on this MB would take Peyton Manning in an instant over Alex Smith, because that would make our team better. But that wouldn't make us a Super Bowl team overnight because there are so many other problems that need solving. If you guys just admitted that, then we could actually have a conversation.

the problem is, there are too many good pieces in place around Smith on both sides of the ball for me to admit that. How do you explain Warner going to an awful team and taking them to the superbowl? And what Ryan did with a bad Falcons team in complete disarray and state of franchise chaos? There are many such examples, where it appeared that there was a total team problem, but the root cause came down to their most important player, the QB. I think with a real qb in place and a real OC and HC and NO other changes, and we are a NFC championship contender. We have all the other pieces.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There are two types of people in this world. Those who have hope, passion, love, respect for others, and a desire to make the world a better place. Then there are those who have no ability to see outside of their own perspective, live selfishly, full of hatred, who do nothing but try and tear down anything and everyone around them to make their own miserable life appear to be better than it is.

Guys like fly15, susweel, shaj, joecool, etc are most certainly part of the latter group. I suppose we could try to debate you with facts, and hope to sway you to be a part of a positive fan base, but it's just not in your DNA. We realize you are simply intellectually inferior, and rather than beat our heads against a wall trying to open your minds, I for one will simply thank you. Thank you for being you, because you make the rest of us shine.

Well, Mr. 53 posts, you certainly are in a position to judge this kind of stuff, aren't you? The fact that you wrote this kind of post actually says more about you than the people you are writing about.

P.S. You don't know me, not by any stretch. Please don't pretend to.

Unlike you, Mr. 20,000 posts, I listen (read) far more than I talk (post). I've read plenty of your garbage and have taken in enough to "judge." I'm not calling any of you bad people, but the way you represent yourself on here is reprehensible.

But like oldman49er said, it's just mere trolling. And like I said, it just makes the rest of look better.

At least we can all agree that we'd like to see Troy Smith play well

Actually, this makes you look like more of an ass than anyone.

Should we add you to the list of haters as well?

And what exactly is it that we "hate" ?

Common misconception of the word "hater," thinking it is somehow linked to the definition of "hate." The term hater is an urban word, and thus, can't be defined by the standard dictionary. According to urbandictionary.com, however, "hater" can be defined as

"A label applied to people who are more negative than positive when discussing another person. It most commonly refers to individuals whose negativity is so extreme that it is all-consuming. However, there are various levels and forms of being a hater, ranging from completely dismissing any positive traits or actions, to merely painting a less than flattering picture by using words with negative connotations. Hating is often attributed to jealousy, but just as often, it seems to stem from some other source."

It is painfully obvious who this applies to on this MB.

You still didn't answer the question.

There is no way to answer "what is it that we hate?" Because I'm not saying that you hate anything. But if you're asking me what is it that makes you a hater, then read the definition of hater and you'll see. That definition describes many of you on this MB, especially when it comes to Alex Smith.

If you want to talk about things going unanswered, how about my challenge to all of you yesterday to say something positive about the team, the players, Alex, the coaches, management, etc. I don't think you have it in you, or you lost it somewhere along the way. It's pretty sad really, that you call yourself a "fan" yet your words do exactly the opposite. Everything you say is with the intent to tear the team down - you are as much a part of the problem as anything else. I never thought I'd say this about Niner fans, but the fanbase's negativity is actually making the team worse.

First off, Leathaface was right, your response post was pretty arrogant.

Secondly, if Vince Lombardi were alive and coaching this team and you spewed this "look at the bright side" and "stop being haters" garbage with him, he'd tear you a new one so fast it would make your head swim.

Winners don't tolerate this kind of bullcrap. Winners don't tolerate motivational speeches with no game planning to back it up. Winners don't tolerate #1 overall draft picks that after 6 years still play like they are in the CFL. Winners don't tolerate complacency and excuses and patience, coupled with losing records. Most of all, winners don't tolerate being mislabelled as haters, because while what they hate is all of the things above, what they truly love is winning, and that's all that counts.

If you want warm and fuzzy feel good stuff, go watch reruns of Mr. Rogers. The NFL is a business, not a message board popularity contest.

You only feel my response is "ignorant" because you don't agree.

Comparing any of us to Vince Lombardi is ridiculous. He's the COACH. No way in the world would I want my coach to be like me, the fan. If you think you're in Lombardi's league, then you are delusional. My point is that we are fans, so we should act like it.

The bottom line is the haters/trollers/etc are far too black and white. You guys attempt to make sweeping judgments about things that are far more complex than you give them credit for.

And while I post this, the SF Giants fans just gave Bengie Molina a standing ovation. He's on the Rangers now if you didn't know. That is 100% class. Something that is sorely missed from the Niner fanbase right now.

my point is, I see all the Smith apologists as complacent, and there is no room for complacency in this business. Even if you want to be euphemistic about it, you can say they are "patient". Tell me if Eddie D was patient, or if Lombardi was patient, or if Walsh was patient. There is just no room for that in today's NFL. You either produce NOW, or your ass is on the street, and our management and our fan base don't seem to get that, and it's been the single biggest differentiator between the Eddie D and the York era.

I agree with you completely about ownership and management, they should be that way. You are not ownership or management, so know your place.

We aren't complacent, or apologists, or any of the other names you call us. We're simply fans who choose to live in the gray area, and address all of our problems as team rather than attempt to place 100% of the blame on one player. Anyone on this MB would take Peyton Manning in an instant over Alex Smith, because that would make our team better. But that wouldn't make us a Super Bowl team overnight because there are so many other problems that need solving. If you guys just admitted that, then we could actually have a conversation.

the problem is, there are too many good pieces in place around Smith on both sides of the ball for me to admit that. How do you explain Warner going to an awful team and taking them to the superbowl? And what Ryan did with a bad Falcons team in complete disarray and state of franchise chaos? There are many such examples, where it appeared that there was a total team problem, but the root cause came down to their most important player, the QB. I think with a real qb in place and a real OC and HC and NO other changes, and we are a NFC championship contender. We have all the other pieces.

You could give us ANY QB, including Smith, and we'd be contenders if this happened. I don't think you'll get an argument from anyone. Smith or no Smith, our coaches are holding us back.

Originally posted by Shaj:


the problem is, there are too many good pieces in place around Smith on both sides of the ball for me to admit that. How do you explain Warner going to an awful team and taking them to the superbowl? And what Ryan did with a bad Falcons team in complete disarray and state of franchise chaos? There are many such examples, where it appeared that there was a total team problem, but the root cause came down to their most important player, the QB. I think with a real qb in place and a real OC and HC and NO other changes, and we are a NFC championship contender. We have all the other pieces.

Can I get some pass protection? You do realize it's terrible, right?

Without that, I fear for a franchise QB. I've seen way too many get destroyed because of it on other teams... and of course it didn't exactly help Smith's development whether he was ever going to be good or not.

Does the defense really get a pass for not holding a lead in the last minutes of four of our games?

Originally posted by excelsior:
I am unaplogetic when I say that I respect Alex and admire what he has done. Not everyone wins the top prize, but many of us respect a true warrior, despite the result. That is why many heroes are those who die on the battlefield.
But those who dance around the body in celebration are .. what can I say?

Tell me fly15, susweel, shaj, joecool, what have you done that we should admire and respect? Have you won any college championship? Have you made it to the NFL? Why should we respect you?

No offense........but you're weird.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There are two types of people in this world. Those who have hope, passion, love, respect for others, and a desire to make the world a better place. Then there are those who have no ability to see outside of their own perspective, live selfishly, full of hatred, who do nothing but try and tear down anything and everyone around them to make their own miserable life appear to be better than it is.

Guys like fly15, susweel, shaj, joecool, etc are most certainly part of the latter group. I suppose we could try to debate you with facts, and hope to sway you to be a part of a positive fan base, but it's just not in your DNA. We realize you are simply intellectually inferior, and rather than beat our heads against a wall trying to open your minds, I for one will simply thank you. Thank you for being you, because you make the rest of us shine.

Well, Mr. 53 posts, you certainly are in a position to judge this kind of stuff, aren't you? The fact that you wrote this kind of post actually says more about you than the people you are writing about.

P.S. You don't know me, not by any stretch. Please don't pretend to.

Unlike you, Mr. 20,000 posts, I listen (read) far more than I talk (post). I've read plenty of your garbage and have taken in enough to "judge." I'm not calling any of you bad people, but the way you represent yourself on here is reprehensible.

But like oldman49er said, it's just mere trolling. And like I said, it just makes the rest of look better.

At least we can all agree that we'd like to see Troy Smith play well

Actually, this makes you look like more of an ass than anyone.

Should we add you to the list of haters as well?

And what exactly is it that we "hate" ?

Common misconception of the word "hater," thinking it is somehow linked to the definition of "hate." The term hater is an urban word, and thus, can't be defined by the standard dictionary. According to urbandictionary.com, however, "hater" can be defined as

"A label applied to people who are more negative than positive when discussing another person. It most commonly refers to individuals whose negativity is so extreme that it is all-consuming. However, there are various levels and forms of being a hater, ranging from completely dismissing any positive traits or actions, to merely painting a less than flattering picture by using words with negative connotations. Hating is often attributed to jealousy, but just as often, it seems to stem from some other source."

It is painfully obvious who this applies to on this MB.

You still didn't answer the question.

There is no way to answer "what is it that we hate?" Because I'm not saying that you hate anything. But if you're asking me what is it that makes you a hater, then read the definition of hater and you'll see. That definition describes many of you on this MB, especially when it comes to Alex Smith.

If you want to talk about things going unanswered, how about my challenge to all of you yesterday to say something positive about the team, the players, Alex, the coaches, management, etc. I don't think you have it in you, or you lost it somewhere along the way. It's pretty sad really, that you call yourself a "fan" yet your words do exactly the opposite. Everything you say is with the intent to tear the team down - you are as much a part of the problem as anything else. I never thought I'd say this about Niner fans, but the fanbase's negativity is actually making the team worse.

First off, Leathaface was right, your response post was pretty arrogant.

Secondly, if Vince Lombardi were alive and coaching this team and you spewed this "look at the bright side" and "stop being haters" garbage with him, he'd tear you a new one so fast it would make your head swim.

Winners don't tolerate this kind of bullcrap. Winners don't tolerate motivational speeches with no game planning to back it up. Winners don't tolerate #1 overall draft picks that after 6 years still play like they are in the CFL. Winners don't tolerate complacency and excuses and patience, coupled with losing records. Most of all, winners don't tolerate being mislabelled as haters, because while what they hate is all of the things above, what they truly love is winning, and that's all that counts.

If you want warm and fuzzy feel good stuff, go watch reruns of Mr. Rogers. The NFL is a business, not a message board popularity contest.

You only feel my response is "ignorant" because you don't agree.

Comparing any of us to Vince Lombardi is ridiculous. He's the COACH. No way in the world would I want my coach to be like me, the fan. If you think you're in Lombardi's league, then you are delusional. My point is that we are fans, so we should act like it.

The bottom line is the haters/trollers/etc are far too black and white. You guys attempt to make sweeping judgments about things that are far more complex than you give them credit for.

And while I post this, the SF Giants fans just gave Bengie Molina a standing ovation. He's on the Rangers now if you didn't know. That is 100% class. Something that is sorely missed from the Niner fanbase right now.

my point is, I see all the Smith apologists as complacent, and there is no room for complacency in this business. Even if you want to be euphemistic about it, you can say they are "patient". Tell me if Eddie D was patient, or if Lombardi was patient, or if Walsh was patient. There is just no room for that in today's NFL. You either produce NOW, or your ass is on the street, and our management and our fan base don't seem to get that, and it's been the single biggest differentiator between the Eddie D and the York era.

I agree with you completely about ownership and management, they should be that way. You are not ownership or management, so know your place.

We aren't complacent, or apologists, or any of the other names you call us. We're simply fans who choose to live in the gray area, and address all of our problems as team rather than attempt to place 100% of the blame on one player. Anyone on this MB would take Peyton Manning in an instant over Alex Smith, because that would make our team better. But that wouldn't make us a Super Bowl team overnight because there are so many other problems that need solving. If you guys just admitted that, then we could actually have a conversation.

the problem is, there are too many good pieces in place around Smith on both sides of the ball for me to admit that. How do you explain Warner going to an awful team and taking them to the superbowl? And what Ryan did with a bad Falcons team in complete disarray and state of franchise chaos? There are many such examples, where it appeared that there was a total team problem, but the root cause came down to their most important player, the QB. I think with a real qb in place and a real OC and HC and NO other changes, and we are a NFC championship contender. We have all the other pieces.

I do not disagree that we need better play from the QB position, however, I do not believe there are "many" good pieces in place around Smith. After Gore (a legit Pro Bowl back) on offense, there is a good but over-rated Vernon Davis on offense, and that is just about it. Crabtree is FAR from a polished receiver and none of the other receivers should be on the field for a winning team. The OL is not good. The biggest problem is a coaching staff that is clueless with the exception that Johnson seems to be learning.

The offense is filled with undeveloped potential and mediocrity. A guy with the ability of Brees or Peyton would certainly get more out of the offense but after that, there are only about 3 or 4 other QBs in this league that are performing at a level that would even begin to get consideration for the Pro Bowl.

So I disagree with your basic premise that their is enough talent here to be a solid contender.

Originally posted by dj43:
I do not disagree that we need better play from the QB position, however, I do not believe there are "many" good pieces in place around Smith. After Gore (a legit Pro Bowl back) on offense, there is a good but over-rated Vernon Davis on offense, and that is just about it. Crabtree is FAR from a polished receiver and none of the other receivers should be on the field for a winning team. The OL is not good. The biggest problem is a coaching staff that is clueless with the exception that Johnson seems to be learning.

The offense is filled with undeveloped potential and mediocrity. A guy with the ability of Brees or Peyton would certainly get more out of the offense but after that, there are only about 3 or 4 other QBs in this league that are performing at a level that would even begin to get consideration for the Pro Bowl.

So I disagree with your basic premise that their is enough talent here to be a solid contender.

Nobody responds to me, so I'll just play cheerleader.

Good post! You win.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by dj43:
I do not disagree that we need better play from the QB position, however, I do not believe there are "many" good pieces in place around Smith. After Gore (a legit Pro Bowl back) on offense, there is a good but over-rated Vernon Davis on offense, and that is just about it. Crabtree is FAR from a polished receiver and none of the other receivers should be on the field for a winning team. The OL is not good. The biggest problem is a coaching staff that is clueless with the exception that Johnson seems to be learning.

The offense is filled with undeveloped potential and mediocrity. A guy with the ability of Brees or Peyton would certainly get more out of the offense but after that, there are only about 3 or 4 other QBs in this league that are performing at a level that would even begin to get consideration for the Pro Bowl.

So I disagree with your basic premise that their is enough talent here to be a solid contender.

Nobody responds to me, so I'll just play cheerleader.

Good post! You win.

I hear you bud! I agree with you, our team has a lot of problems to deal with. To me, it's starts at the top with ownership. They need to admit that they don't have a solid organization in place, and until that happens we're all just hoping.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by dj43:
I do not disagree that we need better play from the QB position, however, I do not believe there are "many" good pieces in place around Smith. After Gore (a legit Pro Bowl back) on offense, there is a good but over-rated Vernon Davis on offense, and that is just about it. Crabtree is FAR from a polished receiver and none of the other receivers should be on the field for a winning team. The OL is not good. The biggest problem is a coaching staff that is clueless with the exception that Johnson seems to be learning.

The offense is filled with undeveloped potential and mediocrity. A guy with the ability of Brees or Peyton would certainly get more out of the offense but after that, there are only about 3 or 4 other QBs in this league that are performing at a level that would even begin to get consideration for the Pro Bowl.

So I disagree with your basic premise that their is enough talent here to be a solid contender.

Nobody responds to me, so I'll just play cheerleader.

Good post! You win.

Here's my problem. Nobody's asking Alex to be a Pro Bowler. I don't think anyone on this site said Alex must be a Pro Bowler to stay. Just be good enough to win football games. Anywhere between 6-9 in the NFC and everything's gravy.

We're not getting that out of Alex right now. We're not scoring points (31st), we're not protecting the football (-6). If your offense doesn't score and is turnover prone you better have a top 3 defense otherwise you're screwed.

I don't think he's the sole problem and I don't think he's too far off, but as of right now he's getting the job done.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There are two types of people in this world. Those who have hope, passion, love, respect for others, and a desire to make the world a better place. Then there are those who have no ability to see outside of their own perspective, live selfishly, full of hatred, who do nothing but try and tear down anything and everyone around them to make their own miserable life appear to be better than it is.

Guys like fly15, susweel, shaj, joecool, etc are most certainly part of the latter group. I suppose we could try to debate you with facts, and hope to sway you to be a part of a positive fan base, but it's just not in your DNA. We realize you are simply intellectually inferior, and rather than beat our heads against a wall trying to open your minds, I for one will simply thank you. Thank you for being you, because you make the rest of us shine.

Well, Mr. 53 posts, you certainly are in a position to judge this kind of stuff, aren't you? The fact that you wrote this kind of post actually says more about you than the people you are writing about.

P.S. You don't know me, not by any stretch. Please don't pretend to.

Unlike you, Mr. 20,000 posts, I listen (read) far more than I talk (post). I've read plenty of your garbage and have taken in enough to "judge." I'm not calling any of you bad people, but the way you represent yourself on here is reprehensible.

But like oldman49er said, it's just mere trolling. And like I said, it just makes the rest of look better.

At least we can all agree that we'd like to see Troy Smith play well

Actually, this makes you look like more of an ass than anyone.

Should we add you to the list of haters as well?

And what exactly is it that we "hate" ?

Common misconception of the word "hater," thinking it is somehow linked to the definition of "hate." The term hater is an urban word, and thus, can't be defined by the standard dictionary. According to urbandictionary.com, however, "hater" can be defined as

"A label applied to people who are more negative than positive when discussing another person. It most commonly refers to individuals whose negativity is so extreme that it is all-consuming. However, there are various levels and forms of being a hater, ranging from completely dismissing any positive traits or actions, to merely painting a less than flattering picture by using words with negative connotations. Hating is often attributed to jealousy, but just as often, it seems to stem from some other source."

It is painfully obvious who this applies to on this MB.

You still didn't answer the question.

There is no way to answer "what is it that we hate?" Because I'm not saying that you hate anything. But if you're asking me what is it that makes you a hater, then read the definition of hater and you'll see. That definition describes many of you on this MB, especially when it comes to Alex Smith.

If you want to talk about things going unanswered, how about my challenge to all of you yesterday to say something positive about the team, the players, Alex, the coaches, management, etc. I don't think you have it in you, or you lost it somewhere along the way. It's pretty sad really, that you call yourself a "fan" yet your words do exactly the opposite. Everything you say is with the intent to tear the team down - you are as much a part of the problem as anything else. I never thought I'd say this about Niner fans, but the fanbase's negativity is actually making the team worse.

First off, Leathaface was right, your response post was pretty arrogant.

Secondly, if Vince Lombardi were alive and coaching this team and you spewed this "look at the bright side" and "stop being haters" garbage with him, he'd tear you a new one so fast it would make your head swim.

Winners don't tolerate this kind of bullcrap. Winners don't tolerate motivational speeches with no game planning to back it up. Winners don't tolerate #1 overall draft picks that after 6 years still play like they are in the CFL. Winners don't tolerate complacency and excuses and patience, coupled with losing records. Most of all, winners don't tolerate being mislabelled as haters, because while what they hate is all of the things above, what they truly love is winning, and that's all that counts.

If you want warm and fuzzy feel good stuff, go watch reruns of Mr. Rogers. The NFL is a business, not a message board popularity contest.

You only feel my response is "ignorant" because you don't agree.

Comparing any of us to Vince Lombardi is ridiculous. He's the COACH. No way in the world would I want my coach to be like me, the fan. If you think you're in Lombardi's league, then you are delusional. My point is that we are fans, so we should act like it.

The bottom line is the haters/trollers/etc are far too black and white. You guys attempt to make sweeping judgments about things that are far more complex than you give them credit for.

And while I post this, the SF Giants fans just gave Bengie Molina a standing ovation. He's on the Rangers now if you didn't know. That is 100% class. Something that is sorely missed from the Niner fanbase right now.

my point is, I see all the Smith apologists as complacent, and there is no room for complacency in this business. Even if you want to be euphemistic about it, you can say they are "patient". Tell me if Eddie D was patient, or if Lombardi was patient, or if Walsh was patient. There is just no room for that in today's NFL. You either produce NOW, or your ass is on the street, and our management and our fan base don't seem to get that, and it's been the single biggest differentiator between the Eddie D and the York era.

I agree with you completely about ownership and management, they should be that way. You are not ownership or management, so know your place.

We aren't complacent, or apologists, or any of the other names you call us. We're simply fans who choose to live in the gray area, and address all of our problems as team rather than attempt to place 100% of the blame on one player. Anyone on this MB would take Peyton Manning in an instant over Alex Smith, because that would make our team better. But that wouldn't make us a Super Bowl team overnight because there are so many other problems that need solving. If you guys just admitted that, then we could actually have a conversation.

the problem is, there are too many good pieces in place around Smith on both sides of the ball for me to admit that. How do you explain Warner going to an awful team and taking them to the superbowl? And what Ryan did with a bad Falcons team in complete disarray and state of franchise chaos? There are many such examples, where it appeared that there was a total team problem, but the root cause came down to their most important player, the QB. I think with a real qb in place and a real OC and HC and NO other changes, and we are a NFC championship contender. We have all the other pieces.

You say all we need is a QB, then you say "I think with a real QB, and a real OC, and HC..." So which is it? With just a new QB? Or with a new QB and a new OC and HC?

Also about the Rams. They had players such as Marshall Faulk (HOFer) Isaac Bruce (future HOFER) and Orlando Pace(STB HOFer?). Also a state of the art offense known as the greatest show on turf. In a large part do to Marshall, Isaac, and Torry Holt. All in their prime. Kurt Warner did not do it himself... As far as Ryan, did they even make the playoffs last season? No... So your points just do not seem valid IMO.

Edit: I appologize. I see you were talking about the Cards and Kurt. I guess you could say that, but the Cards wouldn't of even been in the playoffs playing in any other division. Keep in mind Larry Fitzgerald broke many records that post season, so again it wasn't by himself.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There are two types of people in this world. Those who have hope, passion, love, respect for others, and a desire to make the world a better place. Then there are those who have no ability to see outside of their own perspective, live selfishly, full of hatred, who do nothing but try and tear down anything and everyone around them to make their own miserable life appear to be better than it is.

Guys like fly15, susweel, shaj, joecool, etc are most certainly part of the latter group. I suppose we could try to debate you with facts, and hope to sway you to be a part of a positive fan base, but it's just not in your DNA. We realize you are simply intellectually inferior, and rather than beat our heads against a wall trying to open your minds, I for one will simply thank you. Thank you for being you, because you make the rest of us shine.

Well, Mr. 53 posts, you certainly are in a position to judge this kind of stuff, aren't you? The fact that you wrote this kind of post actually says more about you than the people you are writing about.

P.S. You don't know me, not by any stretch. Please don't pretend to.

Unlike you, Mr. 20,000 posts, I listen (read) far more than I talk (post). I've read plenty of your garbage and have taken in enough to "judge." I'm not calling any of you bad people, but the way you represent yourself on here is reprehensible.

But like oldman49er said, it's just mere trolling. And like I said, it just makes the rest of look better.

At least we can all agree that we'd like to see Troy Smith play well

Actually, this makes you look like more of an ass than anyone.

Should we add you to the list of haters as well?

And what exactly is it that we "hate" ?

Common misconception of the word "hater," thinking it is somehow linked to the definition of "hate." The term hater is an urban word, and thus, can't be defined by the standard dictionary. According to urbandictionary.com, however, "hater" can be defined as

"A label applied to people who are more negative than positive when discussing another person. It most commonly refers to individuals whose negativity is so extreme that it is all-consuming. However, there are various levels and forms of being a hater, ranging from completely dismissing any positive traits or actions, to merely painting a less than flattering picture by using words with negative connotations. Hating is often attributed to jealousy, but just as often, it seems to stem from some other source."

It is painfully obvious who this applies to on this MB.

You still didn't answer the question.

There is no way to answer "what is it that we hate?" Because I'm not saying that you hate anything. But if you're asking me what is it that makes you a hater, then read the definition of hater and you'll see. That definition describes many of you on this MB, especially when it comes to Alex Smith.

If you want to talk about things going unanswered, how about my challenge to all of you yesterday to say something positive about the team, the players, Alex, the coaches, management, etc. I don't think you have it in you, or you lost it somewhere along the way. It's pretty sad really, that you call yourself a "fan" yet your words do exactly the opposite. Everything you say is with the intent to tear the team down - you are as much a part of the problem as anything else. I never thought I'd say this about Niner fans, but the fanbase's negativity is actually making the team worse.

First off, Leathaface was right, your response post was pretty arrogant.

Secondly, if Vince Lombardi were alive and coaching this team and you spewed this "look at the bright side" and "stop being haters" garbage with him, he'd tear you a new one so fast it would make your head swim.

Winners don't tolerate this kind of bullcrap. Winners don't tolerate motivational speeches with no game planning to back it up. Winners don't tolerate #1 overall draft picks that after 6 years still play like they are in the CFL. Winners don't tolerate complacency and excuses and patience, coupled with losing records. Most of all, winners don't tolerate being mislabelled as haters, because while what they hate is all of the things above, what they truly love is winning, and that's all that counts.

If you want warm and fuzzy feel good stuff, go watch reruns of Mr. Rogers. The NFL is a business, not a message board popularity contest.

You only feel my response is "ignorant" because you don't agree.

Comparing any of us to Vince Lombardi is ridiculous. He's the COACH. No way in the world would I want my coach to be like me, the fan. If you think you're in Lombardi's league, then you are delusional. My point is that we are fans, so we should act like it.

The bottom line is the haters/trollers/etc are far too black and white. You guys attempt to make sweeping judgments about things that are far more complex than you give them credit for.

And while I post this, the SF Giants fans just gave Bengie Molina a standing ovation. He's on the Rangers now if you didn't know. That is 100% class. Something that is sorely missed from the Niner fanbase right now.

my point is, I see all the Smith apologists as complacent, and there is no room for complacency in this business. Even if you want to be euphemistic about it, you can say they are "patient". Tell me if Eddie D was patient, or if Lombardi was patient, or if Walsh was patient. There is just no room for that in today's NFL. You either produce NOW, or your ass is on the street, and our management and our fan base don't seem to get that, and it's been the single biggest differentiator between the Eddie D and the York era.

I agree with you completely about ownership and management, they should be that way. You are not ownership or management, so know your place.

We aren't complacent, or apologists, or any of the other names you call us. We're simply fans who choose to live in the gray area, and address all of our problems as team rather than attempt to place 100% of the blame on one player. Anyone on this MB would take Peyton Manning in an instant over Alex Smith, because that would make our team better. But that wouldn't make us a Super Bowl team overnight because there are so many other problems that need solving. If you guys just admitted that, then we could actually have a conversation.

the problem is, there are too many good pieces in place around Smith on both sides of the ball for me to admit that. How do you explain Warner going to an awful team and taking them to the superbowl? And what Ryan did with a bad Falcons team in complete disarray and state of franchise chaos? There are many such examples, where it appeared that there was a total team problem, but the root cause came down to their most important player, the QB. I think with a real qb in place and a real OC and HC and NO other changes, and we are a NFC championship contender. We have all the other pieces.

I do not disagree that we need better play from the QB position, however, I do not believe there are "many" good pieces in place around Smith. After Gore (a legit Pro Bowl back) on offense, there is a good but over-rated Vernon Davis on offense, and that is just about it. Crabtree is FAR from a polished receiver and none of the other receivers should be on the field for a winning team. The OL is not good. The biggest problem is a coaching staff that is clueless with the exception that Johnson seems to be learning.

The offense is filled with undeveloped potential and mediocrity. A guy with the ability of Brees or Peyton would certainly get more out of the offense but after that, there are only about 3 or 4 other QBs in this league that are performing at a level that would even begin to get consideration for the Pro Bowl.

So I disagree with your basic premise that their is enough talent here to be a solid contender.

And that's EXACTLY what Rams fans would say right before Warner, Falcon fans right before Ryan, Ravens fans right before Flacco, Steelers fans right before Roethlisberger, ands on. WHen you are mired in QB mediocrity, the amazing thing is that it will dupe everyone to see things as they aren't. VD and Crabs would be blazing stats with a Brees or Peyton or Rivers or Ryan or Flacco. Those QBs would have better pocket presence and quicker and more accurate releases with our line. Our D wouldn't be on the field so much and always playing catch up against an offense that has pinned their ears back because the game is in the bag. It goes on and on. You have been fooled into thinking this whole team sucks, when it just isn't so. Coach killers like Smith do just that, and that's why they can hang around longer than the people who end up as their scapegoats and get fired before them.

We can make this real simple.

Characteristics of a good QB:

Accuracy: Nope
Intelligence: Check
Instincts: Nope
Touch: Nope
Field Vision: Nope
Mobility: Check
Consistency: Nope
Situational Awareness: Nope (Too much time waisted at critical moments)
Leadership: Nope (Leaders dont allow their team to walk in and out of huddles in two minute drills)
Attitude: Nope

Without a long drawn out essay, I think that pretty much sums it up.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There are two types of people in this world. Those who have hope, passion, love, respect for others, and a desire to make the world a better place. Then there are those who have no ability to see outside of their own perspective, live selfishly, full of hatred, who do nothing but try and tear down anything and everyone around them to make their own miserable life appear to be better than it is.

Guys like fly15, susweel, shaj, joecool, etc are most certainly part of the latter group. I suppose we could try to debate you with facts, and hope to sway you to be a part of a positive fan base, but it's just not in your DNA. We realize you are simply intellectually inferior, and rather than beat our heads against a wall trying to open your minds, I for one will simply thank you. Thank you for being you, because you make the rest of us shine.

Well, Mr. 53 posts, you certainly are in a position to judge this kind of stuff, aren't you? The fact that you wrote this kind of post actually says more about you than the people you are writing about.

P.S. You don't know me, not by any stretch. Please don't pretend to.

Unlike you, Mr. 20,000 posts, I listen (read) far more than I talk (post). I've read plenty of your garbage and have taken in enough to "judge." I'm not calling any of you bad people, but the way you represent yourself on here is reprehensible.

But like oldman49er said, it's just mere trolling. And like I said, it just makes the rest of look better.

At least we can all agree that we'd like to see Troy Smith play well

Actually, this makes you look like more of an ass than anyone.

Should we add you to the list of haters as well?

And what exactly is it that we "hate" ?

Common misconception of the word "hater," thinking it is somehow linked to the definition of "hate." The term hater is an urban word, and thus, can't be defined by the standard dictionary. According to urbandictionary.com, however, "hater" can be defined as

"A label applied to people who are more negative than positive when discussing another person. It most commonly refers to individuals whose negativity is so extreme that it is all-consuming. However, there are various levels and forms of being a hater, ranging from completely dismissing any positive traits or actions, to merely painting a less than flattering picture by using words with negative connotations. Hating is often attributed to jealousy, but just as often, it seems to stem from some other source."

It is painfully obvious who this applies to on this MB.

You still didn't answer the question.

There is no way to answer "what is it that we hate?" Because I'm not saying that you hate anything. But if you're asking me what is it that makes you a hater, then read the definition of hater and you'll see. That definition describes many of you on this MB, especially when it comes to Alex Smith.

If you want to talk about things going unanswered, how about my challenge to all of you yesterday to say something positive about the team, the players, Alex, the coaches, management, etc. I don't think you have it in you, or you lost it somewhere along the way. It's pretty sad really, that you call yourself a "fan" yet your words do exactly the opposite. Everything you say is with the intent to tear the team down - you are as much a part of the problem as anything else. I never thought I'd say this about Niner fans, but the fanbase's negativity is actually making the team worse.

First off, Leathaface was right, your response post was pretty arrogant.

Secondly, if Vince Lombardi were alive and coaching this team and you spewed this "look at the bright side" and "stop being haters" garbage with him, he'd tear you a new one so fast it would make your head swim.

Winners don't tolerate this kind of bullcrap. Winners don't tolerate motivational speeches with no game planning to back it up. Winners don't tolerate #1 overall draft picks that after 6 years still play like they are in the CFL. Winners don't tolerate complacency and excuses and patience, coupled with losing records. Most of all, winners don't tolerate being mislabelled as haters, because while what they hate is all of the things above, what they truly love is winning, and that's all that counts.

If you want warm and fuzzy feel good stuff, go watch reruns of Mr. Rogers. The NFL is a business, not a message board popularity contest.

You only feel my response is "ignorant" because you don't agree.

Comparing any of us to Vince Lombardi is ridiculous. He's the COACH. No way in the world would I want my coach to be like me, the fan. If you think you're in Lombardi's league, then you are delusional. My point is that we are fans, so we should act like it.

The bottom line is the haters/trollers/etc are far too black and white. You guys attempt to make sweeping judgments about things that are far more complex than you give them credit for.

And while I post this, the SF Giants fans just gave Bengie Molina a standing ovation. He's on the Rangers now if you didn't know. That is 100% class. Something that is sorely missed from the Niner fanbase right now.

my point is, I see all the Smith apologists as complacent, and there is no room for complacency in this business. Even if you want to be euphemistic about it, you can say they are "patient". Tell me if Eddie D was patient, or if Lombardi was patient, or if Walsh was patient. There is just no room for that in today's NFL. You either produce NOW, or your ass is on the street, and our management and our fan base don't seem to get that, and it's been the single biggest differentiator between the Eddie D and the York era.

I agree with you completely about ownership and management, they should be that way. You are not ownership or management, so know your place.

We aren't complacent, or apologists, or any of the other names you call us. We're simply fans who choose to live in the gray area, and address all of our problems as team rather than attempt to place 100% of the blame on one player. Anyone on this MB would take Peyton Manning in an instant over Alex Smith, because that would make our team better. But that wouldn't make us a Super Bowl team overnight because there are so many other problems that need solving. If you guys just admitted that, then we could actually have a conversation.

the problem is, there are too many good pieces in place around Smith on both sides of the ball for me to admit that. How do you explain Warner going to an awful team and taking them to the superbowl? And what Ryan did with a bad Falcons team in complete disarray and state of franchise chaos? There are many such examples, where it appeared that there was a total team problem, but the root cause came down to their most important player, the QB. I think with a real qb in place and a real OC and HC and NO other changes, and we are a NFC championship contender. We have all the other pieces.

I do not disagree that we need better play from the QB position, however, I do not believe there are "many" good pieces in place around Smith. After Gore (a legit Pro Bowl back) on offense, there is a good but over-rated Vernon Davis on offense, and that is just about it. Crabtree is FAR from a polished receiver and none of the other receivers should be on the field for a winning team. The OL is not good. The biggest problem is a coaching staff that is clueless with the exception that Johnson seems to be learning.

The offense is filled with undeveloped potential and mediocrity. A guy with the ability of Brees or Peyton would certainly get more out of the offense but after that, there are only about 3 or 4 other QBs in this league that are performing at a level that would even begin to get consideration for the Pro Bowl.

So I disagree with your basic premise that their is enough talent here to be a solid contender.

And that's EXACTLY what Rams fans would say right before Warner, Falcon fans right before Ryan, Ravens fans right before Flacco, Steelers fans right before Roethlisberger, ands on. WHen you are mired in QB mediocrity, the amazing thing is that it will dupe everyone to see things as they aren't. VD and Crabs would be blazing stats with a Brees or Peyton or Rivers or Ryan or Flacco. Those QBs would have better pocket presence and quicker and more accurate releases with our line. Our D wouldn't be on the field so much and always playing catch up against an offense that has pinned their ears back because the game is in the bag. It goes on and on. You have been fooled into thinking this whole team sucks, when it just isn't so. Coach killers like Smith do just that, and that's why they can hang around longer than the people who end up as their scapegoats and get fired before them.

Shaj come on man, the only example you're giving of a QB to get dumped on a team and lead them to a Super Bowl is Warner with the Rams. It's not as if the Steelers or Ravens were bad teams that suddenly became great - they already had solid systems in place. Yes, the Falcons were bad, but they made many improvement, not just Ryan. Not to mention they still haven't won anything yet so let's not put Ryan in some "elite" status.

You posted earlier that we need a new QB AND new HC AND new OC, and I agree with you. I honestly think the jury is still out on Smith until he's able to find a stable environment. Same with any QB. If we still have the same group of coaches next year and draft Locker or Luck, we're screwed. I'm all for letting Smith go or trying to trade him now, but we have to address the long term stability of this team before we go spend $80 million on a QB

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by dj43:
I do not disagree that we need better play from the QB position, however, I do not believe there are "many" good pieces in place around Smith. After Gore (a legit Pro Bowl back) on offense, there is a good but over-rated Vernon Davis on offense, and that is just about it. Crabtree is FAR from a polished receiver and none of the other receivers should be on the field for a winning team. The OL is not good. The biggest problem is a coaching staff that is clueless with the exception that Johnson seems to be learning.

The offense is filled with undeveloped potential and mediocrity. A guy with the ability of Brees or Peyton would certainly get more out of the offense but after that, there are only about 3 or 4 other QBs in this league that are performing at a level that would even begin to get consideration for the Pro Bowl.

So I disagree with your basic premise that their is enough talent here to be a solid contender.

Nobody responds to me, so I'll just play cheerleader.

Good post! You win.

Cheer up little camper. It takes a long time to get some recognition on this site. Or you can be like Kilgore and start 10 threads a day Anyway, when I first started coming here I thought most everyone was an ahole because I was getting the cold shoulder. I guess once they figured I wasn't going away they let me in the circle. Of course, not everyone likes me, but there is enough traffic in and out of here that it really doesn't matter. Welcome (for now)....

hi.

WELL GIVE THE MAN A HAND, HAHAHAHAHA!!!