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Rewatched Raiders game to look at Oline play.
Oct 20, 2010 at 4:16 AM
- prometheus
- Veteran
- Posts: 490
I think the teams have analyzed the running game enough to learn how to stuff it. I think man on man blocking the niners would do well but for the lame plays by Raye and the continued use of them by Simplestiltkins. You see so many things good coaches would catch but not Singletary. His mind is as dense as lead and only useful for jabberwocky to the nth degree. I can't say I have seen anything he has done that has helped the team. This guy is a living dinosaur with a fossilized brain in his butt.
Oct 20, 2010 at 4:41 AM
- binary2nd
- Member
- Posts: 1,345
Originally posted by prometheus:
I think the teams have analyzed the running game enough to learn how to stuff it. I think man on man blocking the niners would do well but for the lame plays by Raye and the continued use of them by Simplestiltkins. You see so many things good coaches would catch but not Singletary. His mind is as dense as lead and only useful for jabberwocky to the nth degree. I can't say I have seen anything he has done that has helped the team. This guy is a living dinosaur with a fossilized brain in his butt.
lol.
Oct 20, 2010 at 6:09 AM
- boriken_9er
- Member
- Posts: 428
Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by Wodwo:Originally posted by NCommand:
Forget the haters...much appreciated that you took time off to not only rewatch the game from a specific standpoint but for also posting your observations here for us. More of this needs to be done to truly understand what is wrong with this team (aside from the obvious in poor management, pathetic coaching and even worse O, D & ST philosophies). I think if more ppl took the time off from popping off and watched some tape objectively, they'd see a lot of what you posted here as well.
I second this.
I don't have the game recorded, but your analysis seems to confirm my initial reactions.
I recommend watching the defense pre-snap while reviewing the game as well. Look what gaps the defensive linemen are taking and where the linebackers and safeties are aligned. That should help in understanding the outcome of the blocking.
Excellent point! The commentators were noting how little the safeties were threatened by our vanilla game plan (even with the threat of VD) and kept cheating up in the box. I remember one of them saying, "Look how CLOSE those safeties are!" They were both within 5 yards of the d-line. It wasn't until late in the game we took advantage of that with VD and Crabtree.
Mid 3rdQ, Rich Gannon was stating that the offense was really predictable and vanilla. He stated how close the safeties were to the line, but he also mentioned that was scary and it was up to the OC to make them pay. Eventually, he did.
Oct 20, 2010 at 8:56 AM
- TonyStarks
- Veteran
- Posts: 60,520
Originally posted by boriken_9er:
I sat down yesterday and rewatched the offensive plays from sunday's game, I wanted to focus on the Oline play. I realized that a lot of the things that I saw were not new at all, which in turn, is a bad thing. Others were kind of surprising to me.
1. On running plays, this line has absolutely no push at all. They get stopped right on their tracks, it is literally a wall, with no holes. Once the formation became spread the holes started opening up. The play action will not fool any one unless they have to fear the run.
2. Joe Staley, had an awful pass blocking game. Someone posted that he seems to be lifting his left foot up at the snap, I am not sure if it mechanics related or he is hurt, but he seemed to be once step behind.
3. A Davis - was beat a couple of times on pass plays, but none seemed as bad as Staley's. I am not sure if it has to do with the scheme but he seemed to be blocking to the inside on the bootleg plays, leaving the DE unaccounted for.
4. Iutapi - he did ok, although I still waiting to see that strong, push everybody put of the way, opening lanes guard we were promised.
5. Bass - he did ok on his own. I am not sure if he is doing the necessary communication as the leader of the line.
6. Rachal - now this may be surprising to a lot of you but when I rewatched the game I realized Chilo did a great job. He did not miss block, assisted in blocks, pass protected. The only knock I have on Chilo is the same I have on the rest of the line, he can not push anyone back.
I rewatched last night as well.
I agree 100%
Alex ran for his life and had to rollout every other damn play.
Damn shame we focused the draft on improving the oline and it seems the same as last years. Staley just flat out fell on his ass one play .
A.Davis and Chilo were looking like bums week in and week out.
Oct 20, 2010 at 8:57 AM
- SybErkRimInAL
- Veteran
- Posts: 59,184
i was almost done downloading it when I hit the delete button for some unexplained reason. starting all over. It's going fast though.
Oct 22, 2010 at 12:07 AM
- TonyStarks
- Veteran
- Posts: 60,520
This problem really needs to be addressed.
Why does our QB have to scramble in every single play because of blown blocks?
Why does our QB have to scramble in every single play because of blown blocks?
Oct 22, 2010 at 12:22 AM
- TheGoldDiggerrrr
- Veteran
- Posts: 5,073
Originally posted by boriken_9er:
I sat down yesterday and rewatched the offensive plays from sunday's game, I wanted to focus on the Oline play. I realized that a lot of the things that I saw were not new at all, which in turn, is a bad thing. Others were kind of surprising to me.
1. On running plays, this line has absolutely no push at all. They get stopped right on their tracks, it is literally a wall, with no holes. Once the formation became spread the holes started opening up. The play action will not fool any one unless they have to fear the run.
2. Joe Staley, had an awful pass blocking game. Someone posted that he seems to be lifting his left foot up at the snap, I am not sure if it mechanics related or he is hurt, but he seemed to be once step behind.
3. A Davis - was beat a couple of times on pass plays, but none seemed as bad as Staley's. I am not sure if it has to do with the scheme but he seemed to be blocking to the inside on the bootleg plays, leaving the DE unaccounted for.
4. Iutapi - he did ok, although I still waiting to see that strong, push everybody put of the way, opening lanes guard we were promised.
5. Bass - he did ok on his own. I am not sure if he is doing the necessary communication as the leader of the line.
6. Rachal - now this may be surprising to a lot of you but when I rewatched the game I realized Chilo did a great job. He did not miss block, assisted in blocks, pass protected. The only knock I have on Chilo is the same I have on the rest of the line, he can not push anyone back.
I think Davis should do that to sell the run if not madden does the same thing on my boot's i believe we call them naked for a reason and you get the wr to flow that way. but you have to run in order to set it up so the linebacker flows to tackle the running back and leaving the right side open for alex. i think that's what were trying to do. but we need to be able to get gore going first.
lol Joe i think he's hurt or he's struggling but he's not look good i think sure great feet but we need to bulk up and throw a block. at least he's healthy knock on wood.
Oct 22, 2010 at 12:26 AM
- Sanfran_chrisco
- Veteran
- Posts: 33,133
Originally posted by lamontb:
Staley has been playing badly and been getting beat every week. It's more than the shoulder injury. The guy just isn't playing up to par this year.
bust
Oct 22, 2010 at 12:47 AM
- English
- Moderator
- Posts: 40,211
Originally posted by defenderDX:Originally posted by lamontb:
Staley has been playing badly and been getting beat every week. It's more than the shoulder injury. The guy just isn't playing up to par this year.
bust
No. The guy played well last year. Players have bad years, doesn't make them busts
Oct 22, 2010 at 12:53 AM
- Sanfran_chrisco
- Veteran
- Posts: 33,133
Originally posted by English:Originally posted by defenderDX:Originally posted by lamontb:
Staley has been playing badly and been getting beat every week. It's more than the shoulder injury. The guy just isn't playing up to par this year.
bust
No. The guy played well last year. Players have bad years, doesn't make them busts
bustttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
Oct 22, 2010 at 1:19 AM
- pasodoc9er
- Veteran
- Posts: 21,009
Boriken, i agree that without the proper coaching and hand holding , 2 first rd young OL guys are not going to see their potential develop.
Tell me if this sounds familiar: 49er QB, #1 pick in the draft, drafted with no OL to protect him, no serious Qb coach to coach him, a DC for a HC with no knowledge of the O, OCs who came and went each yr for 6 long yrs running...well, you buy a cadillac and don't take care of it, it runs like my old Dodge van...leaks oil, gets 8 miles/gallon, and won't go uphill. The reason i have never given alex a grade until this yr was simply because the "KID", and i mean that in every definition of the word, got drafted by us(bad luck for him and us) and then basically learned 6 new systems in 6 yrs, and never , ever really had someone to mentor him.
Of all the many egregious errors made by the witless owners, this is the one that hacks me off the worst. Draft a QB, a) protect him, and b) tutor and mentor him. I give noln full credit(blame) for drafting a #1pick and then just totally blowing it by reasons above. Had we had a HOFO, we never would have taken alex, unless we planned to have an OC as HC and he would have to be a helluva great qB coach also. Additionally, until we had the kid protected, we should have built the OL first.
Obviously we didn't so result was we wasted the #1 pick in the entire dam draft. STUPID. PATHETIC. It also resulted in redoing the entire team with an $80 mil DB (formerly a shut down corner, who here was just wasted with no talent around him). And Nate did not make the lousy talent around him better. And as far as shut down...that's just a cruel joke. So having no idea of how to build a team, let alone not being even close as HC material, we bumbled along with noln until he failed completely, and was replaced by his protege, a LB coach with no other experience.
The misadventure of the incompetent HCs, one following another, with one a DC and the other a LB coach(argh), is all I need to say about why our 2 first rd picks aren't playing well. No coaching, lack of coaching, whatever. What is bizarre to me is that solari and bigRay were hired for this specific chore, both former and familiar with the best OL coach in 9er hx...and yet they have failed to date. Maybe it is too early, maybe it is the coaching, maybe a bit, or a lot of both.
But no matter how you slice it, somehow it all seems to come back to the HC, a guy totally unprepared for this job(and he knows it), and faulty to poor OL play, lousy play calls, crappy D planning, trouble getting plays in, trouble getting players in ...or too many in, DBs intercepting a pass with time running out and not taking a knee...it all smacks of inferior planning, preparation, and coaching at the highest level...Bigmike(BM). In fact with all the problems we have on this team, the only common thread is the HC. He's failed, we all know he is gone at yrs end, if not mercifully before, and until his shadow no longer darkens our field, i don't see us getting much right except for beating ...the Raids.
Tell me if this sounds familiar: 49er QB, #1 pick in the draft, drafted with no OL to protect him, no serious Qb coach to coach him, a DC for a HC with no knowledge of the O, OCs who came and went each yr for 6 long yrs running...well, you buy a cadillac and don't take care of it, it runs like my old Dodge van...leaks oil, gets 8 miles/gallon, and won't go uphill. The reason i have never given alex a grade until this yr was simply because the "KID", and i mean that in every definition of the word, got drafted by us(bad luck for him and us) and then basically learned 6 new systems in 6 yrs, and never , ever really had someone to mentor him.
Of all the many egregious errors made by the witless owners, this is the one that hacks me off the worst. Draft a QB, a) protect him, and b) tutor and mentor him. I give noln full credit(blame) for drafting a #1pick and then just totally blowing it by reasons above. Had we had a HOFO, we never would have taken alex, unless we planned to have an OC as HC and he would have to be a helluva great qB coach also. Additionally, until we had the kid protected, we should have built the OL first.
Obviously we didn't so result was we wasted the #1 pick in the entire dam draft. STUPID. PATHETIC. It also resulted in redoing the entire team with an $80 mil DB (formerly a shut down corner, who here was just wasted with no talent around him). And Nate did not make the lousy talent around him better. And as far as shut down...that's just a cruel joke. So having no idea of how to build a team, let alone not being even close as HC material, we bumbled along with noln until he failed completely, and was replaced by his protege, a LB coach with no other experience.
The misadventure of the incompetent HCs, one following another, with one a DC and the other a LB coach(argh), is all I need to say about why our 2 first rd picks aren't playing well. No coaching, lack of coaching, whatever. What is bizarre to me is that solari and bigRay were hired for this specific chore, both former and familiar with the best OL coach in 9er hx...and yet they have failed to date. Maybe it is too early, maybe it is the coaching, maybe a bit, or a lot of both.
But no matter how you slice it, somehow it all seems to come back to the HC, a guy totally unprepared for this job(and he knows it), and faulty to poor OL play, lousy play calls, crappy D planning, trouble getting plays in, trouble getting players in ...or too many in, DBs intercepting a pass with time running out and not taking a knee...it all smacks of inferior planning, preparation, and coaching at the highest level...Bigmike(BM). In fact with all the problems we have on this team, the only common thread is the HC. He's failed, we all know he is gone at yrs end, if not mercifully before, and until his shadow no longer darkens our field, i don't see us getting much right except for beating ...the Raids.
Oct 22, 2010 at 1:54 AM
- Sanfran_chrisco
- Veteran
- Posts: 33,133
Screw those referees at that game.
Oct 22, 2010 at 11:17 AM
- carlgo
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,075
It doesn't take any sort of genius to see that the OL, like the rest of the team, plays better when released from Sing's shackles. It has been shown over and over when the team is playing from behind and in the 2-minute drill.
Bet that the OL plays better if a qualified HC is hired.
Bet that the OL plays better if a qualified HC is hired.
Oct 22, 2010 at 11:55 AM
- Joecool
- Veteran
- Posts: 70,984
Man, if we don't commit 140+ yards in penalties, we blow the Raiders out. It was a win but we still keep shooting ourselves in the foot.
Oct 22, 2010 at 12:51 PM
- jimbagg
- Veteran
- Posts: 5,093
Re-watching the game to focus on OL play, or some other specific segment is a good thing.
I suggest that this OL is actually on-track under Solari/Brown to become a very good OL. They are progressing, but many have unrealistic short-term expectations for them. To date, their rate of progress has been slowed by several factors (some correctable), which I would prioritize as follows
1, Predictable play-calling, gives the defense, not the OL, the advantage.
2. QB takes too much time at the LOS - OL "freezes-up" before the snap.
3. Formations so tight that OL can't get any angled blocking leverage.
4. The rookies need NFL PT - it's a steep learning curve.
5. Injuries to Staley (playing through) and Heitmann.
Perhaps Mike Johnson can help with items 1 and 3. If not, Johnson needs to be replaced at season-end. Regarding Item 2, one of the reasons that Shawn Hill could move the team was tempo at the LOS. He got them to the line and pulled the trigger. Why is Smith so damned slow, holding the OL in a crouch forever!??? Regarding Item 4, Solari and Brown are teaching good technique, but practices are no substitute for game PT experience. At least, these guys are starting. Warhop would never give Baas or Snyder a shot, prefrring turnstyles like Anthony Clement! Get the kids in there, teach 'em good technique, and turn 'em loose. It took Ferguson and Mangold a year to become dominant, when they started together as rookies. II especially like the way that OT Davis plays through the whistle and tries to scrape a few defenders off the pile that hangs onto Frank Gore. I expect that Gore appreciates that too. Regarding item 5, fans need to understand what it means for a player to play hurt, as Staley is currently doing. If a healthy Sims were perceived to be better ny the coaches, Sims woukld be in there. Sims is not better, so Staley is giving it all he's got. And the Heitmann njury seems to have placed more line call responsibility onto the QB, not a good thing IMO for a worry-wort like Smith.
I'm actually encouraged by the OL, and I expect that many NFL teams would take this young, talented bunch in a heartbeat. Patience remains in short supply among the fans (rightly so!), but I feel that this OL will be a force for 5-7 years. They are on the steep part of the learning curve.
I suggest that this OL is actually on-track under Solari/Brown to become a very good OL. They are progressing, but many have unrealistic short-term expectations for them. To date, their rate of progress has been slowed by several factors (some correctable), which I would prioritize as follows
1, Predictable play-calling, gives the defense, not the OL, the advantage.
2. QB takes too much time at the LOS - OL "freezes-up" before the snap.
3. Formations so tight that OL can't get any angled blocking leverage.
4. The rookies need NFL PT - it's a steep learning curve.
5. Injuries to Staley (playing through) and Heitmann.
Perhaps Mike Johnson can help with items 1 and 3. If not, Johnson needs to be replaced at season-end. Regarding Item 2, one of the reasons that Shawn Hill could move the team was tempo at the LOS. He got them to the line and pulled the trigger. Why is Smith so damned slow, holding the OL in a crouch forever!??? Regarding Item 4, Solari and Brown are teaching good technique, but practices are no substitute for game PT experience. At least, these guys are starting. Warhop would never give Baas or Snyder a shot, prefrring turnstyles like Anthony Clement! Get the kids in there, teach 'em good technique, and turn 'em loose. It took Ferguson and Mangold a year to become dominant, when they started together as rookies. II especially like the way that OT Davis plays through the whistle and tries to scrape a few defenders off the pile that hangs onto Frank Gore. I expect that Gore appreciates that too. Regarding item 5, fans need to understand what it means for a player to play hurt, as Staley is currently doing. If a healthy Sims were perceived to be better ny the coaches, Sims woukld be in there. Sims is not better, so Staley is giving it all he's got. And the Heitmann njury seems to have placed more line call responsibility onto the QB, not a good thing IMO for a worry-wort like Smith.
I'm actually encouraged by the OL, and I expect that many NFL teams would take this young, talented bunch in a heartbeat. Patience remains in short supply among the fans (rightly so!), but I feel that this OL will be a force for 5-7 years. They are on the steep part of the learning curve.