Rewatched Raiders game to look at Oline play.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I can say quite assuredly that this whipping boy sentiment on Chilo Rachal has been unjustified in the last game and 1/2 of play. I'm still working towards the 2nd half vs Oakland, so I'll know more then... but Rachal has been solid during that time period stated.

I'll venture a guess here, but I'm willing to bet that our OL is getting beat off of the snapdo to the fact the defense knows what plays we are running before the snap.

That and we have big fat maulers who are SLOOOOOW.

Anybody want to take a guess why Bill Walsh liked smaller, faster and more nimble Offensive Lineman???

Originally posted by tn9er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I can say quite assuredly that this whipping boy sentiment on Chilo Rachal has been unjustified in the last game and 1/2 of play. I'm still working towards the 2nd half vs Oakland, so I'll know more then... but Rachal has been solid during that time period stated.

I'll venture a guess here, but I'm willing to bet that our OL is getting beat off of the snapdo to the fact the defense knows what plays we are running before the snap.

That and we have big fat maulers who are SLOOOOOW.

Anybody want to take a guess why Bill Walsh liked smaller, faster and more nimble Offensive Lineman???

I'll tell you one thing, you would lose that bet regarding our OTs. Both have been impressively quick off the snap... so much so, that I kept expecting a flag for false starts. As best I can recall, the entire OL is getting off the snap well this year.

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by 9erfan4life:

Originally posted by boriken_9er:

Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
How does one take the time to re watch an entire game analyze the offensive line play but not take 5 seconds to check the injury report to see that Staley was listed as probable with a shoulder and missed most of practice last week?

So, because he had an injured shoulder he was getting beat at the snap?

excuse invalid

I was just giving you a hard time.

Seriously though what’s the point of all this?

Heitmann who is a better center is hurt.
Baas has played a handful of games at center since high school.
Rachal would be on the bench if Heitmann was playing center and Baas at guard
Two rookies who are still learning the game and don’t know what they’re doing half the time are starting.

It’s clear why they suck

I thought Baas was a Center at Michigan?

he was a guard until the starting center was injured then he moved to center for the last 5 or so games of the season his senior year

I saw guys running right pass Chilo in pass protection. You should watch it again...

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
Other teams draft or sign players from the same draft pool like we do. Other teams' players work out and try to get as strong as possible, just like we do.

We're not getting a push or too often getting beat by the opposing team defense because too often they can correctly predict what our play is. That millisecond which determines whether we move a defensive lineman off the ball or force him to take unnecessary steps because he isn't sure what we're doing is gone.

It ain't physical, Singletary, it's mental as in being creative and unpredictable and keeping the defense off balance.

You'ld rather repeatedly bang your head against the wall, just to prove a point, instead of figuring out ways around it or over it.

Our linemen should just take more 'roids in order to be more effective under this Neanderthal system.

Exactly. We heard this from other teams. Our formations are so predictable. The defense knows what is coming so it is easy to stop them.

I remember Singletary saying we were going to impose our will on people. Even if they knew what was coming we were still going to execute. Well apparently he is prepared to tank the season to accomplish that as he appears unwilling to change and it isn't working. In todays NFL you can't impose your will on people. Maybe a play here or there but the majority of the time if they know what you are going to do they have the athletes to stop you.

Originally posted by LongTimeNiner:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
Other teams draft or sign players from the same draft pool like we do. Other teams' players work out and try to get as strong as possible, just like we do.

We're not getting a push or too often getting beat by the opposing team defense because too often they can correctly predict what our play is. That millisecond which determines whether we move a defensive lineman off the ball or force him to take unnecessary steps because he isn't sure what we're doing is gone.

It ain't physical, Singletary, it's mental as in being creative and unpredictable and keeping the defense off balance.

You'ld rather repeatedly bang your head against the wall, just to prove a point, instead of figuring out ways around it or over it.

Our linemen should just take more 'roids in order to be more effective under this Neanderthal system.

Exactly. We heard this from other teams. Our formations are so predictable. The defense knows what is coming so it is easy to stop them.

I remember Singletary saying we were going to impose our will on people. Even if they knew what was coming we were still going to execute. Well apparently he is prepared to tank the season to accomplish that as he appears unwilling to change and it isn't working. In todays NFL you can't impose your will on people. Maybe a play here or there but the majority of the time if they know what you are going to do they have the athletes to stop you.

Yea, Singletary clearly has a pathetic, stubborn mind. He'll put the nail in the coffin before long.

Originally posted by boriken_9er:
I sat down yesterday and rewatched the offensive plays from sunday's game, I wanted to focus on the Oline play. I realized that a lot of the things that I saw were not new at all, which in turn, is a bad thing. Others were kind of surprising to me.

1. On running plays, this line has absolutely no push at all. They get stopped right on their tracks, it is literally a wall, with no holes. Once the formation became spread the holes started opening up. The play action will not fool any one unless they have to fear the run.
2. Joe Staley, had an awful pass blocking game. Someone posted that he seems to be lifting his left foot up at the snap, I am not sure if it mechanics related or he is hurt, but he seemed to be once step behind.
3. A Davis - was beat a couple of times on pass plays, but none seemed as bad as Staley's. I am not sure if it has to do with the scheme but he seemed to be blocking to the inside on the bootleg plays, leaving the DE unaccounted for.
4. Iutapi - he did ok, although I still waiting to see that strong, push everybody put of the way, opening lanes guard we were promised.
5. Bass - he did ok on his own. I am not sure if he is doing the necessary communication as the leader of the line.
6. Rachal - now this may be surprising to a lot of you but when I rewatched the game I realized Chilo did a great job. He did not miss block, assisted in blocks, pass protected. The only knock I have on Chilo is the same I have on the rest of the line, he can not push anyone back.

I'm not sure how you are coming to the conclusion that is in bold. If he's not communicating well, then wouldn't the Guards play bad? The Guards played well. The Tackles didn't because they couldn't handle the individual matchups sometimes.

Last year, we got pressured numerous times up the middle. Remember, teams were run-blitzing us and getting quick penetration straight up the gut. That's not happening this year. Teams are getting more pressure from the RT/RG combo than anywhere and in this last game, it was from both tackles. That alone tells me Baas is an improvement over Heitman.

Thank you Bob McKittrick Jr.

Forget the haters...much appreciated that you took time off to not only rewatch the game from a specific standpoint but for also posting your observations here for us. More of this needs to be done to truly understand what is wrong with this team (aside from the obvious in poor management, pathetic coaching and even worse O, D & ST philosophies). I think if more ppl took the time off from popping off and watched some tape objectively, they'd see a lot of what you posted here as well.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Forget the haters...much appreciated that you took time off to not only rewatch the game from a specific standpoint but for also posting your observations here for us. More of this needs to be done to truly understand what is wrong with this team (aside from the obvious in poor management, pathetic coaching and even worse O, D & ST philosophies). I think if more ppl took the time off from popping off and watched some tape objectively, they'd see a lot of what you posted here as well.

Yes, but doesn't Maiocco do this for us every week? And who are we to decide what is and isnt proper technique? Have we ever played in the NFL? I would rather hear from someone who has actually either played or coached the position. Without that, all we have is an armchair head coach.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Forget the haters...much appreciated that you took time off to not only rewatch the game from a specific standpoint but for also posting your observations here for us. More of this needs to be done to truly understand what is wrong with this team (aside from the obvious in poor management, pathetic coaching and even worse O, D & ST philosophies). I think if more ppl took the time off from popping off and watched some tape objectively, they'd see a lot of what you posted here as well.

Yes, but doesn't Maiocco do this for us every week? And who are we to decide what is and isnt proper technique? Have we ever played in the NFL? I would rather hear from someone who has actually either played or coached the position. Without that, all we have is an armchair head coach.

MM? Really? I think he is OK, biased a bit and the National resources have been blowing our local boys out of the water this year on breaking stories. Did MM play football? Uh huh. Don't get me wrong, I like MB but they have to walk a fine line...hell, they may even be the "rats." Haha.

Anyway, if you have eyes, a brain and objectivity (and a little time), there isn't much you can't do as a fan of football/Niners. I can't TELL you how many times the fans have been spot on over the years esp. compared to the decisions the coaches have made towards hires, personnel, philosophy, predictable records, over/under-rating, the draft, FA, etc. If you stay here long enough, you know who to read and who to ignore.

Remember, the writers and coaches are all involved in the "intimate relationship" with their players and organization. When you watch the game the second time (minus the emotions) it's generally VERY easy to see what's going on...ON THE FIELD. And THAT is what we are ALL evaluating as it translates into W's and L's. It's much easier to be on the outside looking in.

[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 19, 2010 at 12:55:07 ]

Originally posted by NCommand:
Forget the haters...much appreciated that you took time off to not only rewatch the game from a specific standpoint but for also posting your observations here for us. More of this needs to be done to truly understand what is wrong with this team (aside from the obvious in poor management, pathetic coaching and even worse O, D & ST philosophies). I think if more ppl took the time off from popping off and watched some tape objectively, they'd see a lot of what you posted here as well.

I second this.

I don't have the game recorded, but your analysis seems to confirm my initial reactions.

I recommend watching the defense pre-snap while reviewing the game as well. Look what gaps the defensive linemen are taking and where the linebackers and safeties are aligned. That should help in understanding the outcome of the blocking.

Originally posted by boriken_9er:
I sat down yesterday and rewatched the offensive plays from sunday's game, I wanted to focus on the Oline play. I realized that a lot of the things that I saw were not new at all, which in turn, is a bad thing. Others were kind of surprising to me.

1. On running plays, this line has absolutely no push at all. They get stopped right on their tracks, it is literally a wall, with no holes. Once the formation became spread the holes started opening up. The play action will not fool any one unless they have to fear the run.
2. Joe Staley, had an awful pass blocking game. Someone posted that he seems to be lifting his left foot up at the snap, I am not sure if it mechanics related or he is hurt, but he seemed to be once step behind.
3. A Davis - was beat a couple of times on pass plays, but none seemed as bad as Staley's. I am not sure if it has to do with the scheme but he seemed to be blocking to the inside on the bootleg plays, leaving the DE unaccounted for.
4. Iutapi - he did ok, although I still waiting to see that strong, push everybody put of the way, opening lanes guard we were promised.
5. Bass - he did ok on his own. I am not sure if he is doing the necessary communication as the leader of the line.
6. Rachal - now this may be surprising to a lot of you but when I rewatched the game I realized Chilo did a great job. He did not miss block, assisted in blocks, pass protected. The only knock I have on Chilo is the same I have on the rest of the line, he can not push anyone back.

You saw pretty much the same game I saw, particularly the play of Rachal. I have been critical of him in the past but he did play respectably well in this game. If he continues to play that well the rest of the season the line will do well.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Thank you Bob McKittrick Jr.

That's Bobb McKittrick Jr.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Forget the haters...much appreciated that you took time off to not only rewatch the game from a specific standpoint but for also posting your observations here for us. More of this needs to be done to truly understand what is wrong with this team (aside from the obvious in poor management, pathetic coaching and even worse O, D & ST philosophies). I think if more ppl took the time off from popping off and watched some tape objectively, they'd see a lot of what you posted here as well.

I second this.

I don't have the game recorded, but your analysis seems to confirm my initial reactions.

I recommend watching the defense pre-snap while reviewing the game as well. Look what gaps the defensive linemen are taking and where the linebackers and safeties are aligned. That should help in understanding the outcome of the blocking.

Excellent point! The commentators were noting how little the safeties were threatened by our vanilla game plan (even with the threat of VD) and kept cheating up in the box. I remember one of them saying, "Look how CLOSE those safeties are!" They were both within 5 yards of the d-line. It wasn't until late in the game we took advantage of that with VD and Crabtree.