Ann Killion: Niners need to cut losses, get rid of Alex Smith

Originally posted by GBNinerFan:

Originally posted by Shaj:
wonderful article. She's telling us we should just admit the mistake with Alex and move on.... and the sooner we do it, the better, like the Raiders with Jamarcus Russell. I know most zoners will say she's an idiot, only because she doesn't tell you what you want to hear, but the truth hurts. Some cool snippets from the article:

"..the 49ers' entire plan is to have Smith succeed. They don't have any other ideas or contingency plans. They made a point to remove competition and pressure and cocoon him in job security. Again, not the way the rest of the league does it. But the 49ers are different."

".. the 49ers continue to cling to the few moments of promise Smith has shown over the years. They are so few that everyone can recite them by heart: a late game drive against Seattle in 2006, a second-half rally in a loss at Houston last season, the waning moments of last month's Monday Night game against New Orleans."

"But he hasn't performed like an NFL quarterback. In any other franchise, the plug would have been pulled long ago. The experiment ended. The investment swallowed. The team would have moved on."

"the 49ers don't want to hear it. If they admit to being wrong about Smith, that means they must concede they're wrong about everything. That their vision is flawed. That they need to start over. Instead, they keep operating as though they have all the time in the world."

link to article

I think this should be closed and you warned. I thought Ang made it pretty clear when she created the Alex thread.

why you hating

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by kray28:

Quote:
Like I said before, I think Smith will go on somewhere else and eventually be pretty succesful. I just don't think it'll happen here.

If that's the case, why let him go an succeed elsewhere? We've invested enough in him. Letting him go to go do well elsewhere just adds insult to injury.

I'm just very resistant to the idea of cutting our losses with him, when we've already come this far with him. Particularly when I see plenty of good things from him as well.

And I'm a Draft Rodgers guy too....I never wanted Smith originally. But for the price that this organization paid to get him, and stick with him....it is in our best interests to help him succeed.

Are you f**king s**tting me?? Look at the cost we are paying for trying to make the Alex experiment work?? An extremely talented team, who was has progressively improved over the last 3 years and was ready to go to the playoffs, at 0-5!

Your entire argument is based on the notion that he will succeed with another team. Who's to guarantee that? He would be a 3d string QB at best with other teams. Cut our losses and MOVE ON.

We are all a bit frustrated, or a lot frustrated with the QB play. However, this team has average talent, nothing more. VD and Willis are the only stars. The rest are average, no consistent Pro Bowlers here. Yes, they have some promising young players but the are only average. The only reason anyone considered them a playoff team was because they play in the weakest division in football. Numerous observers believe that 7-9 could win the division!

Statistically, Smith would be starting on 5-8 other teams in the league.

Two teams would start Smith right now: The Bills and the Panthers, and that would only be until they have better options. He'd be a 2nd or 3rd stringer on every other team in the league.

i think his point was that Smith's stats are equivalent to those of the starters on 5-8 other teams.

Forget stats for a second (and his career stats are at the bottom of the league). Smith is not a winner. He doesn't step up in the clutch. He can't take the game over and win it for his team. He doesn't handle pressure with poise. He's not a fiery leader that motivates his team to do better. He doesn't strike fear in the heart of any defense in the league. He's not any of those things.

There's not a GM in the league other than the Bills and the Panthers that would take Smith as a starter, and even then he would be keeping the spot warm for a "real QB".

i think Smith plays pretty well in the clutch, actually. Better than he plays the rest of the game. But you are right that he has not produced wins in the clutch, which is the most important thing.

I think Smith could start for the Browns, Cardinals, Raiders, Jaguars, Bills, Panthers, and his numbers are in the same ballpark as the Vikings and Bengals starters, too, though he would be the #2 in both those places. Now, in some of those places he would be a stop-gap, yes, and in others he would be better than any prospect they have, but its still true that as a mediocre NFL starter he could start for quite a few mediocre teams.

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
Nothing groundbreaking for me Shaj. I mean I don't understand what drives these Alex Smith defenders to say he will take us to the playoffs ...he will win 6 in a row...he will wake up all of sudden play better and become less "cautious"

I mean we can't win 1 f@ckin game..And we still think we're going somewhere this year? Pure blind homerism .

Now Better Day im wit you on that one brotha, except i'll take it up a notch. I dont understand what drives any defender to exclude the REST OF THE TEAMS horrible play, and just point out the QB. Just like i said in another thread, some think that just because you have a star QB, it makes up for no running game, and not being able to stop the pass or the run on defense.

We had this discussion all off season. Yes other areas of the team have made mistakes that have led to the record we have but not as many as Smith made by himself. Every single analyst and fan during the off season has said Smith was/is the key to success for the 49ers

Has he delivered? Be honest. Defense was not a question and neither was the surrounding cast around Smith. He continues to be the biggest question mark.

But I think he is answering all questions now.

Now u know we did discuss these things. But even Smith supporters didnt say anything about if Smith does well, then the team does well in every facet. WE said if he plays well, and the other aspects do their job, his good play will take us over the top. Dont forget and u have to be honest. We all went on that Smith train, with the idea, that the RUNNING GAME and TOP DEFENSE, would be even better than last year.

So what im simply saying is, Ok. The onus this summer was that if the other parts stayed the same, and got even better, that all we would need is Smith to play better. What im saying is that none of it is true, we have no top running game, we have no top defense, and each aspect that we figured WOULD stay dormant. Has not.

So the formula was once again.

Top 10 running game+ Top 10 defense + Smith improving from last year = is the formula for an outstanding team.

The reality formula is: Bottom 5 running game + Top 10 in points allowed + Smith ok/bad play= 0-5

Now u feel me

[ Edited by Jersey9er on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:01:41 ]

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by kray28:

Quote:
Like I said before, I think Smith will go on somewhere else and eventually be pretty succesful. I just don't think it'll happen here.

If that's the case, why let him go an succeed elsewhere? We've invested enough in him. Letting him go to go do well elsewhere just adds insult to injury.

I'm just very resistant to the idea of cutting our losses with him, when we've already come this far with him. Particularly when I see plenty of good things from him as well.

And I'm a Draft Rodgers guy too....I never wanted Smith originally. But for the price that this organization paid to get him, and stick with him....it is in our best interests to help him succeed.

Are you f**king s**tting me?? Look at the cost we are paying for trying to make the Alex experiment work?? An extremely talented team, who was has progressively improved over the last 3 years and was ready to go to the playoffs, at 0-5!

Your entire argument is based on the notion that he will succeed with another team. Who's to guarantee that? He would be a 3d string QB at best with other teams. Cut our losses and MOVE ON.

We are all a bit frustrated, or a lot frustrated with the QB play. However, this team has average talent, nothing more. VD and Willis are the only stars. The rest are average, no consistent Pro Bowlers here. Yes, they have some promising young players but the are only average. The only reason anyone considered them a playoff team was because they play in the weakest division in football. Numerous observers believe that 7-9 could win the division!

Statistically, Smith would be starting on 5-8 other teams in the league.

Two teams would start Smith right now: The Bills and the Panthers, and that would only be until they have better options. He'd be a 2nd or 3rd stringer on every other team in the league.

i think his point was that Smith's stats are equivalent to those of the starters on 5-8 other teams.

Forget stats for a second (and his career stats are at the bottom of the league). Smith is not a winner. He doesn't step up in the clutch. He can't take the game over and win it for his team. He doesn't handle pressure with poise. He's not a fiery leader that motivates his team to do better. He doesn't strike fear in the heart of any defense in the league. He's not any of those things.

There's not a GM in the league other than the Bills and the Panthers that would take Smith as a starter, and even then he would be keeping the spot warm for a "real QB".

i think Smith plays pretty well in the clutch, actually. Better than he plays the rest of the game. But you are right that he has not produced wins in the clutch, which is the most important thing.

I think Smith could start for the Browns, Cardinals, Raiders, Jaguars, Bills, Panthers, and his numbers are in the same ballpark as the Vikings and Bengals starters, too, though he would be the #2 in both those places. Now, in some of those places he would be a stop-gap, yes, and in others he would be better than any prospect they have, but its still true that as a mediocre NFL starter he could start for quite a few mediocre teams.

he'll be released after this year. we'll see who values him at that point, and at what level in the QB depth chart. let's just say he's not going to be the "prize of the free agency market" in 2011.

While my money is on A. Smith leaving the Niners and moving on to be a career backup, I fail to see how cutting him now would be "better". We have no real options behind him. Hell, I bet only T. Smith MIGHT be back next years as a 3rd stringer. Most likely we will acquire a rookie and a reliable vet (how reliable, it remains to be seen).

So, Smith gives the best chance to win NOW and there's no one worth developing behind him. Why cut him? The only reason I can think of is so we can get that #1 overall pick and get Locker/Luck.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by kray28:

Quote:
Like I said before, I think Smith will go on somewhere else and eventually be pretty succesful. I just don't think it'll happen here.

If that's the case, why let him go an succeed elsewhere? We've invested enough in him. Letting him go to go do well elsewhere just adds insult to injury.

I'm just very resistant to the idea of cutting our losses with him, when we've already come this far with him. Particularly when I see plenty of good things from him as well.

And I'm a Draft Rodgers guy too....I never wanted Smith originally. But for the price that this organization paid to get him, and stick with him....it is in our best interests to help him succeed.

Are you f**king s**tting me?? Look at the cost we are paying for trying to make the Alex experiment work?? An extremely talented team, who was has progressively improved over the last 3 years and was ready to go to the playoffs, at 0-5!

Your entire argument is based on the notion that he will succeed with another team. Who's to guarantee that? He would be a 3d string QB at best with other teams. Cut our losses and MOVE ON.

We are all a bit frustrated, or a lot frustrated with the QB play. However, this team has average talent, nothing more. VD and Willis are the only stars. The rest are average, no consistent Pro Bowlers here. Yes, they have some promising young players but the are only average. The only reason anyone considered them a playoff team was because they play in the weakest division in football. Numerous observers believe that 7-9 could win the division!

Statistically, Smith would be starting on 5-8 other teams in the league.

Two teams would start Smith right now: The Bills and the Panthers, and that would only be until they have better options. He'd be a 2nd or 3rd stringer on every other team in the league.

i think his point was that Smith's stats are equivalent to those of the starters on 5-8 other teams.

Forget stats for a second (and his career stats are at the bottom of the league). Smith is not a winner. He doesn't step up in the clutch. He can't take the game over and win it for his team. He doesn't handle pressure with poise. He's not a fiery leader that motivates his team to do better. He doesn't strike fear in the heart of any defense in the league. He's not any of those things.

There's not a GM in the league other than the Bills and the Panthers that would take Smith as a starter, and even then he would be keeping the spot warm for a "real QB".

i think Smith plays pretty well in the clutch, actually. Better than he plays the rest of the game. But you are right that he has not produced wins in the clutch, which is the most important thing.

I think Smith could start for the Browns, Cardinals, Raiders, Jaguars, Bills, Panthers, and his numbers are in the same ballpark as the Vikings and Bengals starters, too, though he would be the #2 in both those places. Now, in some of those places he would be a stop-gap, yes, and in others he would be better than any prospect they have, but its still true that as a mediocre NFL starter he could start for quite a few mediocre teams.

he'll be released after this year. we'll see who values him at that point, and at what level in the QB depth chart. let's just say he's not going to be the "prize of the free agency market" in 2011.

ok. i never said he would be the "prize." anyway, i don't think you follow the NFL closely enough to actual discuss Smith's merits relative to the rest of the league.

Die Alex DIE!

I will cheer my butt off when he is no longer a 49er. A thorn in this franchise for far too long.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Originally posted by kray28:

Quote:
Like I said before, I think Smith will go on somewhere else and eventually be pretty succesful. I just don't think it'll happen here.

If that's the case, why let him go an succeed elsewhere? We've invested enough in him. Letting him go to go do well elsewhere just adds insult to injury.

I'm just very resistant to the idea of cutting our losses with him, when we've already come this far with him. Particularly when I see plenty of good things from him as well.

And I'm a Draft Rodgers guy too....I never wanted Smith originally. But for the price that this organization paid to get him, and stick with him....it is in our best interests to help him succeed.

Are you f**king s**tting me?? Look at the cost we are paying for trying to make the Alex experiment work?? An extremely talented team, who was has progressively improved over the last 3 years and was ready to go to the playoffs, at 0-5!

Your entire argument is based on the notion that he will succeed with another team. Who's to guarantee that? He would be a 3d string QB at best with other teams. Cut our losses and MOVE ON.

We are all a bit frustrated, or a lot frustrated with the QB play. However, this team has average talent, nothing more. VD and Willis are the only stars. The rest are average, no consistent Pro Bowlers here. Yes, they have some promising young players but the are only average. The only reason anyone considered them a playoff team was because they play in the weakest division in football. Numerous observers believe that 7-9 could win the division!

Statistically, Smith would be starting on 5-8 other teams in the league.

Two teams would start Smith right now: The Bills and the Panthers, and that would only be until they have better options. He'd be a 2nd or 3rd stringer on every other team in the league.

i think his point was that Smith's stats are equivalent to those of the starters on 5-8 other teams.

Forget stats for a second (and his career stats are at the bottom of the league). Smith is not a winner. He doesn't step up in the clutch. He can't take the game over and win it for his team. He doesn't handle pressure with poise. He's not a fiery leader that motivates his team to do better. He doesn't strike fear in the heart of any defense in the league. He's not any of those things.

There's not a GM in the league other than the Bills and the Panthers that would take Smith as a starter, and even then he would be keeping the spot warm for a "real QB".

i think Smith plays pretty well in the clutch, actually. Better than he plays the rest of the game. But you are right that he has not produced wins in the clutch, which is the most important thing.

I think Smith could start for the Browns, Cardinals, Raiders, Jaguars, Bills, Panthers, and his numbers are in the same ballpark as the Vikings and Bengals starters, too, though he would be the #2 in both those places. Now, in some of those places he would be a stop-gap, yes, and in others he would be better than any prospect they have, but its still true that as a mediocre NFL starter he could start for quite a few mediocre teams.

he'll be released after this year. we'll see who values him at that point, and at what level in the QB depth chart. let's just say he's not going to be the "prize of the free agency market" in 2011.

I'd be willing to bet he will backup Phillip Rivers in San Diego.

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
While my money is on A. Smith leaving the Niners and moving on to be a career backup, I fail to see how cutting him now would be "better". We have no real options behind him. Hell, I bet only T. Smith MIGHT be back next years as a 3rd stringer. Most likely we will acquire a rookie and a reliable vet (how reliable, it remains to be seen).

So, Smith gives the best chance to win NOW and there's no one worth developing behind him. Why cut him? The only reason I can think of is so we can get that #1 overall pick and get Locker/Luck.

there's no benefit now, unless he has trade value, which we know he doesn't. He's worth a 7th round pick in a trade, so it's better just to keep him and release him at the end of the year. He gives us the best chance to win at this very moment. Which isn't saying much.

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
I've been watching the 9ers for 25 years now and I have never seen or heard fans at the stick do what they did to Smith last Sunday. If that's not an indicator of frustrated this fanbase is then I don't know what is. I mean they were actually chanting "we want carr" in perfect unison. Unf@cking believable that we have come to this.

I have been watching the m for 30 years and I was telling my Girlfriend the same thing. Never have I heard that type of booing or chanting...

For those who think that Jed can't fix this ASAP, you are wrong. Actually the total downfall of the Niners couldn't have happened at a better time. There are actually "EXCELLENT AND EXPERIENCED" coaches available. Also because of the so-called development of AS we have passed on numerous QB's. So now is the time to ride out the season, maybe let Davis play and if he sucks purge him as well and then bring in Gruden and draft a QB HE CAN DEVELOP!

Who knows, Jed may even smarten up and go out and get him a real GM. Gotta give a lil to get something in return and if he doesn't want an empty new stadium he better work fast.

For those who don't remember the Glory Days, we were the franchise that use to supply the other NFL teams with coaches and QB's cuz we knew how to develop them. We couldn't develop a Pop-Warner QB right now. Gotta get back and build the organization more so then the team!

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
Nothing groundbreaking for me Shaj. I mean I don't understand what drives these Alex Smith defenders to say he will take us to the playoffs ...he will win 6 in a row...he will wake up all of sudden play better and become less "cautious"

I mean we can't win 1 f@ckin game..And we still think we're going somewhere this year? Pure blind homerism .

Now Better Day im wit you on that one brotha, except i'll take it up a notch. I dont understand what drives any defender to exclude the REST OF THE TEAMS horrible play, and just point out the QB. Just like i said in another thread, some think that just because you have a star QB, it makes up for no running game, and not being able to stop the pass or the run on defense.

We had this discussion all off season. Yes other areas of the team have made mistakes that have led to the record we have but not as many as Smith made by himself. Every single analyst and fan during the off season has said Smith was/is the key to success for the 49ers

Has he delivered? Be honest. Defense was not a question and neither was the surrounding cast around Smith. He continues to be the biggest question mark.

But I think he is answering all questions now.

Now u know we did discuss these things. But even Smith supporters didnt say anything about if Smith does well, then the team does well in every facet. WE said if he plays well, and the other aspects do their job, his good play will take us over the top. Dont forget and u have to be honest. We all went on that Smith train, with the idea, that the RUNNING GAME and TOP DEFENSE, would be even better than last year.

So what im simply saying is, Ok. The onus this summer was that if the other parts stayed the same, and got even better, that all we would need is Smith to play better. What im saying is that none of it is true, we have no top running game, we have no top defense, and each aspect that we figured WOULD stay dormant. Has not.

So the formula was once again.

Top 10 running game+ Top 10 defense + Smith improving from last year = is the formula for an outstanding team.

The reality formula is: Bottom 5 running game + Top 10 in points allowed + Smith ok/bad play= 0-5

Now u feel me

I can partially agree but I can't completely agree because if you have a good to elite QB that can make plays and not mistakes then everything else will fix itself.

No turnovers means the defense is not asked to do too much. Good passing game means less defenders in the box for Gore. I mean no defense fears Smith.

The only issue that I see in defense to Smith is the play calling issue. Whether it was Jimmy Raye, Mike Johnson or Sinletary handcufing the offense it has been questionable.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
While my money is on A. Smith leaving the Niners and moving on to be a career backup, I fail to see how cutting him now would be "better". We have no real options behind him. Hell, I bet only T. Smith MIGHT be back next years as a 3rd stringer. Most likely we will acquire a rookie and a reliable vet (how reliable, it remains to be seen).

So, Smith gives the best chance to win NOW and there's no one worth developing behind him. Why cut him? The only reason I can think of is so we can get that #1 overall pick and get Locker/Luck.

there's no benefit now, unless he has trade value, which we know he doesn't. He's worth a 7th round pick in a trade, so it's better just to keep him and release him at the end of the year. He gives us the best chance to win at this very moment. Which isn't saying much.

Exactly. so why is she saying we should "cut our losses"? He WILL be gone after the season. Pretty pointless to me.

She would sound smarter if she had written this article during the offseason while telling the 49ers to go after McNabb or draft Clausen.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by ZRF80:


Cant wait to see Alex Smith screw it up against the Raiders......

you need to go join the Raiders forum, immediately. you are NO FAN OF THE 49ERS.

I am a lifelong 49ers fan and have supported all players (at least until they leave) with maybe TO as the exception at the end of his career with the 49ers.

That being said, I have come to my wits end with Smith. And with the love the front office shows for Alex, I no longer want to see "flashes" of a good QB. I believe they continue to have hope because of these moments. Now I wouldn't mind him starting out Sunday as a new Alex Smith and see his poor play be gone forever, but we all know that is not going to happen. I find myself agreeing with ZRF80 and want to see him fail so the front office will move on.

No team starting 0-5 has EVER made the playoffs. This season is lost, if loosing will make the Niners move forward then what is one more loosing season? The talent is widely recognized and I believe a good coach would be willing to come here now since they wouldn't have to rebuild from scratch.

Originally posted by susweel:
I have been saying this for a long time now, glad to see the national media has finally caught up to my greatness.

We all look up to you Sus.

LB

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
While my money is on A. Smith leaving the Niners and moving on to be a career backup, I fail to see how cutting him now would be "better". We have no real options behind him. Hell, I bet only T. Smith MIGHT be back next years as a 3rd stringer. Most likely we will acquire a rookie and a reliable vet (how reliable, it remains to be seen).

So, Smith gives the best chance to win NOW and there's no one worth developing behind him. Why cut him? The only reason I can think of is so we can get that #1 overall pick and get Locker/Luck.

there's no benefit now, unless he has trade value, which we know he doesn't. He's worth a 7th round pick in a trade, so it's better just to keep him and release him at the end of the year. He gives us the best chance to win at this very moment. Which isn't saying much.

Smith might surprise a lot of 'zoners come free agent time. There are a LOT of mediocre QBs in this league.

Here is my list of teams for which he would compete to start now:
Cleveland
Arizona
Oakland
Carolina
Seattle
Baltimore
KC

Next season he would replace the current QB or back-up with an early chance to start at:
Washington
Minnesota
Cincy - Palmer has had only one good year and his rating is only 5 points better than Smith now.

Also Jacksonville might also be interested as David Garrard has been very inconsistent.

That makes a total of 11 teams that would be interested in Smith if he elects to leave, which I expect he will. With that many teams potentially in the bidding, he will get some decent offers.

Too bad the 49ers will not be able to get anything in trade for him. No team will trade for a QB they know will be a FA at the end of the year.

[ Edited by dj43 on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:51:00 ]