Talk about a Niner locker room divided

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by kray28:
Smith proved he wasn't the problem last night, if you ask me.

That's absolutely not true. Alex has occasional flashes of briliance, but he has never done that for more than two drives in a game that I can ever remember, andit has always been combined with flashes of Ryan Leaf, and they are always done in the same game. It's not his potential, it's his inconsistency that's the problem, and after 6 years in the league, I don't know if he can fix that or not anymore. It's part of his DNA.

Amigo, there is way more wrong with this team than Alex. He got rocked before he threw that last pick. Our Oline is playing like sh*t. We keep running Gore at 9 man fronts. On defense, we run a deep cover 3 and get aced by deep clearing routes. Aubrayo Franklin is getting JOBBED off of the snap. All of the "little things" we should be doing just aren't getting done. Until we open it up early and keep it open all game on O, and start finishing blocks, wrapping up on tackles and doing all of the little things with any kind of regularity, we will continue to blow games by f*cking up every 3rd or 4th play. We have enough talent to win...but are decidedly lacking as it pertains to polish.

Our problems are defense not finishing on tackles. You see in this game a quarterback slip out of TWO defensive players diving to make a tackle and then throwing a touchdown pass on the same play. Also we have a young o line now and we need them to get it together. Not to mention Gore needs to hold the ball better even though the first fumble wasnt really his fault it was just a good defensive play. You got to remember that not everything is bad offense but sometimes you got a GOOD defense going against you. We are tightening up our offense once we get it together we will be VERY good. BUT if we drop Smith then we will have to spend even MORE time getting timing and the overall chemistry of the offense in the right spot.

Originally posted by boriken_9er:

Originally posted by kray28:
Smith proved he wasn't the problem last night, if you ask me.

We lost by 3 points and he get up a fumble for touchdown. He screwed up by play all by himself.

what about the defense that allowed 20 points

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by kray28:
Smith proved he wasn't the problem last night, if you ask me.

????????????????????????????? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

mofo threw for 3 td's and he's getting crucified for a fumble....

Originally posted by NP9er:

Originally posted by Pick6:

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by boriken_9er:

Originally posted by kray28:
Smith proved he wasn't the problem last night, if you ask me.

We lost by 3 points and he get up a fumble for touchdown. He screwed up by play all by himself.

Did you see Vernon slip and fall on the hook route, or were your eyes closed and simply listening to Collinsworth's endless stream of sweet nothings?

Exactly... I was screaming at collinsworth after watching the replay... idiot. Davis went down and I think there was a LB right there inside of him who would have been all alone. The ball would have been incomplete at best... pick 6 (and here it comes) at worst.

How about Gore's TWO fumbles? Nedney missed a 40 yd field goal! Smith made it a 3 point game... it could have been worse.

NO this would/will not DIVIDE a locker room... unless the division is between David Carr and the rest of the team. The players want to win and I think its obvious their best chance to win is with Smith.

Actually, Davis did not go down. Yes he slipped, but quickly regained his balance. If that pass is thrown and thrown to the correct spot, (outside shoulder of reciever), there is no chance of a pick and at worse it falls incomplete. The nearest defender was coming from the inside, with the next outside defender 20 yards away covering another reciever. As a QB, you have to believe your guy is going to make a play unless you see him on the ground. Alex saw the slip ad quit on the play too quickly. This is exactly what Steve Young was talking about on radio last week. Play the game, and let er rip. Don't over-think the situation. Just put the ball where its suppose to be and leave the rest to the reciever.

Are you serious? In making 3-5 reads in less than three seconds he's supposed to know that Vernon was going to get up? Do you realize how hard it is to play QB in the NFL? I don't think Steve was saying Alex should not make the next read when he see's a receiver slip.

[ Edited by Gavintech on Oct 12, 2010 at 11:03:18 ]

Originally posted by jvangeystel:
Our problems are defense not finishing on tackles. You see in this game a quarterback slip out of TWO defensive players diving to make a tackle and then throwing a touchdown pass on the same play. Also we have a young o line now and we need them to get it together. Not to mention Gore needs to hold the ball better even though the first fumble wasnt really his fault it was just a good defensive play. You got to remember that not everything is bad offense but sometimes you got a GOOD defense going against you. We are tightening up our offense once we get it together we will be VERY good. BUT if we drop Smith then we will have to spend even MORE time getting timing and the overall chemistry of the offense in the right spot.

Missed tackles was a BIG problem on Sunday. It was a glaring weakness. Clements missed how many that went for big gains when the ballcarrier didn't do anything but run straight. No juke, no move of any kind. A bunch of near-sacks and near-TFL's where the lineman or backer probably could have made the play with a tiny bit more effort (game of inches) was also maddening.

Originally posted by 49rz4Life:
Say what you want but what VD and Gore did was split a locker room with their actions. Anything can happen this season and the last thing you want to do is undermind your coaches and fans by putting a player before the team. Smith could go down and the last memory Carr is gonna have is the two weapons he would need didn't even want him in the game even if he throws like the old 30's players he's going in. They know a new qb will spread the ball around and that wouldn't be that bad of an idea with all the talent we have. The defense wouldn't know wat to expect. We wanted a change we need a change and I love these players but I'm a lil disgusted with their stance. Team first not players feelings, that kind of thinking is hurting us.

How you see a locker-room divided is beyond me. It looks like the opposite.

This thread is pathetic! I thought it contained actual facts...............but I shouldn't be suprised this is Niner Talk on the Webzone!

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Are you serious? In making 3-5 reads in less than three seconds he's supposed to know that Vernon was going to get up? Do you realize how hard it is to play QB in the NFL? I don't think Steve was saying Alex should not make the next read when he see's a receiver slip.

Furthermore, that play was designed to get the ball out ASAP, there was minimal protection in the pocket to allow for longer read times, it was a short drop and pop to Davis, and Davis slipped on the cut (btw what is it with our receivers slipping all over the place on the field?). It was a busted play from then on because Alex had to GTFO of Dodge and run for his life. He screwed up when he tried to do too much by not just taking the sack.

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by jvangeystel:
Our problems are defense not finishing on tackles. You see in this game a quarterback slip out of TWO defensive players diving to make a tackle and then throwing a touchdown pass on the same play. Also we have a young o line now and we need them to get it together. Not to mention Gore needs to hold the ball better even though the first fumble wasnt really his fault it was just a good defensive play. You got to remember that not everything is bad offense but sometimes you got a GOOD defense going against you. We are tightening up our offense once we get it together we will be VERY good. BUT if we drop Smith then we will have to spend even MORE time getting timing and the overall chemistry of the offense in the right spot.

Missed tackles was a BIG problem on Sunday. It was a glaring weakness. Clements missed how many that went for big gains when the ballcarrier didn't do anything but run straight. No juke, no move of any kind. A bunch of near-sacks and near-TFL's where the lineman or backer probably could have made the play with a tiny bit more effort (game of inches) was also maddening.

I see a lot of our guys leaving their feet to make tackles. Don't they teach you in high school to not leave your feet? Leave your feet, and you are basically taking yourself out of the play. And how many times did you see that very thing happen out on the field. Poor fundamentals, players out of position, bad habits....it's all there on the game tape.

These are pros too....and they seem to be really lacking in fundamental techniques. If there's any blame here, it's got to be on the coaches.

[ Edited by kray28 on Oct 12, 2010 at 11:21:13 ]

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by jvangeystel:
Our problems are defense not finishing on tackles. You see in this game a quarterback slip out of TWO defensive players diving to make a tackle and then throwing a touchdown pass on the same play. Also we have a young o line now and we need them to get it together. Not to mention Gore needs to hold the ball better even though the first fumble wasnt really his fault it was just a good defensive play. You got to remember that not everything is bad offense but sometimes you got a GOOD defense going against you. We are tightening up our offense once we get it together we will be VERY good. BUT if we drop Smith then we will have to spend even MORE time getting timing and the overall chemistry of the offense in the right spot.

Missed tackles was a BIG problem on Sunday. It was a glaring weakness. Clements missed how many that went for big gains when the ballcarrier didn't do anything but run straight. No juke, no move of any kind. A bunch of near-sacks and near-TFL's where the lineman or backer probably could have made the play with a tiny bit more effort (game of inches) was also maddening.

I see a lot of our guys leaving their feet to make tackles. Don't they teach you in high school to not leave your feet? Leave your feet, and you are basically taking yourself out of the play. And how many times did you see that very thing happen out on the field. Poor fundamentals, players out of position, bad habits....it's all there on the game tape.

These are pros too....and they seem to be really lacking in fundamental techniques. If there's any blame here, it's got to be on the coaches.

Vets like Nate Clements shouldn't have to be coached on things like this. He was the main culprit giving up 1st downs on black-and-white missed tackles on Sunday. I can't put that on the coaches. Nate was in the right place but didn't make the play.

[ Edited by Gavintech on Oct 12, 2010 at 11:55:16 ]

Originally posted by Legbreaker:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by kray28:
Smith proved he wasn't the problem last night, if you ask me.

That's absolutely not true. Alex has occasional flashes of briliance, but he has never done that for more than two drives in a game that I can ever remember, andit has always been combined with flashes of Ryan Leaf, and they are always done in the same game. It's not his potential, it's his inconsistency that's the problem, and after 6 years in the league, I don't know if he can fix that or not anymore. It's part of his DNA.

Amigo, there is way more wrong with this team than Alex. He got rocked before he threw that last pick. Our Oline is playing like sh*t. We keep running Gore at 9 man fronts. On defense, we run a deep cover 3 and get aced by deep clearing routes. Aubrayo Franklin is getting JOBBED off of the snap. All of the "little things" we should be doing just aren't getting done. Until we open it up early and keep it open all game on O, and start finishing blocks, wrapping up on tackles and doing all of the little things with any kind of regularity, we will continue to blow games by f*cking up every 3rd or 4th play. We have enough talent to win...but are decidedly lacking as it pertains to polish.

Amen brother, wasting your time trying to reason with Shaj though. He would rather see Smith fail than the team win.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by kray28:
Smith proved he wasn't the problem last night, if you ask me.

That's absolutely not true. Alex has occasional flashes of briliance, but he has never done that for more than two drives in a game that I can ever remember, andit has always been combined with flashes of Ryan Leaf, and they are always done in the same game. It's not his potential, it's his inconsistency that's the problem, and after 6 years in the league, I don't know if he can fix that or not anymore. It's part of his DNA.

Amigo, there is way more wrong with this team than Alex. He got rocked before he threw that last pick. Our Oline is playing like sh*t. We keep running Gore at 9 man fronts. On defense, we run a deep cover 3 and get aced by deep clearing routes. Aubrayo Franklin is getting JOBBED off of the snap. All of the "little things" we should be doing just aren't getting done. Until we open it up early and keep it open all game on O, and start finishing blocks, wrapping up on tackles and doing all of the little things with any kind of regularity, we will continue to blow games by f*cking up every 3rd or 4th play. We have enough talent to win...but are decidedly lacking as it pertains to polish.

Amen brother, wasting your time trying to reason with Shaj though. He would rather see Smith fail than the team win.

You can say this about almost any team with a losing record. The primary goal in improving something that isn't working isn't to point out everything wrong, it's to point out the biggest problem. That problem has been turnovers and the position that has been turning the ball over the most has been the QB.

When improving things, you correct the giant issue first. If you don't then everything will look bad no matter what you do. Remember when Alex Smith got hurt, then Dilfer came and we still couldn't figure out what was wrong. Then Shaun Hill came in and the team began playing better as a whole and Nolan said they have determined the issue and will work on correcting it?

This teams issue in the past 6 years has been a huge issue that has made the entire team appear terrible in all and that issue has not been corrected. Everything else has been improved yet we still look terrible overall.

All the minor stuff can be corrected but things will still appear bad unless the main issue is corrected.

We are not forcing teams to press. If we are up by 7, a team still doesn't press because they are not afraid of this offense breaking the game open. So, they keep at it and keep at it and sooner or later, we make a mistake and the game breaks open to 2 scores.

[ Edited by Joecool on Oct 12, 2010 at 14:13:42 ]

Originally posted by tn9er:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by bigwads:

Originally posted by 9erred:

Originally posted by kray28:
Smith proved he wasn't the problem last night, if you ask me.

So throwing two interceptions, and fumbling is no problem. Thanks Iron Mike. remember we need offense. two interceptions and a fumble ar only good if you are on defense.

Neither of those picks had any relevance to the game whatsoever. One came on a jump ball to Ginn who never turned around and they took over on their 2 yard line. The other was on the last play of the game and came because Smith got hit half way through his throw.

The fumble was freaking embarrassing, but if the defense doesn't all a 3 pt drive when the game is on the line that game is tied in regulation.

P.S. What about the 40 yard FG that Nedney missed...what a joke.

I went from hating, to feeling sorry for, to absolutely loving A.S. all in 30 minutes time...that was down rate curageous as hell to throw those two TD's with his whole damn career on the line...I have been waiting to see Alex get pissed off for 6 years and it finally happened last night. I hope it carries over.

WE ARE NOT BUILT TO RUN THE BALL UP THE DAMN MIDDLE....THROW THROW AND THROW AGAIN UNTIL PEOPLE LOOSEN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SINGLETARY'S STUBBORNESS AND PRIDE ARE WHAT IS KILLING US...AND ALEX KNOWS IT.

How can you say that a pick to end the game was not relevant to the game? It ended the game. We were down 3 points. Alex doesn't throw a pick there and we live to play another down.

Pocket presence is part of football.

do you actually lack the intelligence to understand that the defensive lineman drilled Alex Smith as he was trying to throw the ball because A. Davis failed to do his job???[/quote]

Still you can't say the pick had no relevance to the game. That pick ended the game.

You're not going to get a perfect protection everytime and if you can't make plays on 1st and 2nd down chances are on 3rd and long things will break down for you.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by kray28:
Smith proved he wasn't the problem last night, if you ask me.

That's absolutely not true. Alex has occasional flashes of briliance, but he has never done that for more than two drives in a game that I can ever remember, andit has always been combined with flashes of Ryan Leaf, and they are always done in the same game. It's not his potential, it's his inconsistency that's the problem, and after 6 years in the league, I don't know if he can fix that or not anymore. It's part of his DNA.

Amigo, there is way more wrong with this team than Alex. He got rocked before he threw that last pick. Our Oline is playing like sh*t. We keep running Gore at 9 man fronts. On defense, we run a deep cover 3 and get aced by deep clearing routes. Aubrayo Franklin is getting JOBBED off of the snap. All of the "little things" we should be doing just aren't getting done. Until we open it up early and keep it open all game on O, and start finishing blocks, wrapping up on tackles and doing all of the little things with any kind of regularity, we will continue to blow games by f*cking up every 3rd or 4th play. We have enough talent to win...but are decidedly lacking as it pertains to polish.

Amen brother, wasting your time trying to reason with Shaj though. He would rather see Smith fail than the team win.

You can say this about almost any team with a losing record. The primary goal in improving something that isn't working isn't to point out everything wrong, it's to point out the biggest problem. That problem has been turnovers and the position that has been turning the ball over the most has been the QB.

When improving things, you correct the giant issue first. If you don't then everything will look bad no matter what you do. Remember when Alex Smith got hurt, then Dilfer came and we still couldn't figure out what was wrong. Then Shaun Hill came in and the team began playing better as a whole and Nolan said they have determined the issue and will work on correcting it?

This teams issue in the past 6 years has been a huge issue that has made the entire team appear terrible in all and that issue has not been corrected. Everything else has been improved yet we still look terrible overall.

All the minor stuff can be corrected but things will still appear bad unless the main issue is corrected.

We are not forcing teams to press. If we are up by 7, a team still doesn't press because they are not afraid of this offense breaking the game open. So, they keep at it and keep at it and sooner or later, we make a mistake and the game breaks open to 2 scores.

The offensive line is THE problem this year, they are not providing any push, not opening holes with any regularity, and are very questionable at pass protection. That is the single biggest problem with the offense. We have raw talent in the rookies, but they make many rookie mistakes, and they are resulting in the skill players (namely Gore and Smith)struggling to produce.