Benching the starting QB during a game sends a message

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Fitzpatrick for Edwards
Vick for Kolb
Collins for Young
Clausen for Moore
Gradkowski for Campbell
Hall for Anderson
Thigpen for Henne
let me know if I forgot anyone else...

Doesn't it make sense to bench a starter for at least a quarter or a half, like Tenneesee did with Vince Young. They gave Vince his starting position back the next week, but it also sent the message that you need to preform at a certain level. This is the NFL. Campbell got benched and even the Raiders went with a QB that helps them move the ball. Whinenhunt had the balls to pull Anderson from the game to put in a nobody at QB, but he did it to send a message.

I'm tired of the excuse, do you really think Carr is better than Smith? He doesn't have to be physically better, he just has to make less mistakes. I'm still hoping we can run off 4 or 5 of the next six against less talented opponets, but we can't if we keep killing ourselves. We were 10 seconds away from being 2-2 with less than average QB play, I wonder what we can be with just average QB play.

Lastly in the words of one Michael Singletary, "Don't Tell me, Show Me"

I know Carr might not be as good, but as soon Alex throws 2 more INTs in a game i would like to see him benched to send the message, you can't turn the ball over 2+ times a game week in and week out. Let Carr play a quarter just so Alex sees what it looks like to take care of the ball.

LOL Kolb was never benched

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Fitzpatrick for Edwards
Vick for Kolb
Collins for Young
Clausen for Moore
Gradkowski for Campbell
Hall for Anderson
Thigpen for Henne
let me know if I forgot anyone else...

Doesn't it make sense to bench a starter for at least a quarter or a half, like Tenneesee did with Vince Young. They gave Vince his starting position back the next week, but it also sent the message that you need to preform at a certain level. This is the NFL. Campbell got benched and even the Raiders went with a QB that helps them move the ball. Whinenhunt had the balls to pull Anderson from the game to put in a nobody at QB, but he did it to send a message.

I'm tired of the excuse, do you really think Carr is better than Smith? He doesn't have to be physically better, he just has to make less mistakes. I'm still hoping we can run off 4 or 5 of the next six against less talented opponets, but we can't if we keep killing ourselves. We were 10 seconds away from being 2-2 with less than average QB play, I wonder what we can be with just average QB play.

Lastly in the words of one Michael Singletary, "Don't Tell me, Show Me"

I know Carr might not be as good, but as soon Alex throws 2 more INTs in a game i would like to see him benched to send the message, you can't turn the ball over 2+ times a game week in and week out. Let Carr play a quarter just so Alex sees what it looks like to take care of the ball.

What exactly in David Carr's history makes you think he would "take care of the ball?"

Most of the situations you cite are different that this one.

Vick went in for Kolb because Kolb got hurt in Game 1.

Collins replaced Young because Young didn't prepare well that week and then played horribly but Young has a good history of recent success dating back to last year.

Thigpen replaced Henne in garbage time (at least for now).

Tom Cable likes Gradkowski because of what he did last year. Singletary does not feel the same way about Carr.

Clausen and Hall are more like if Nate Davis took over.

Fitzpatrick taking over for Edwards would probably be the most like Carr taking over for Smith.

If they're going to make a change at QB to try to save the season, Singeltary would likely want to try Troy Smith but he probably doesn't know the offense well enough yet.

If they're going to make a change at QB because the season is lost, then it has to be Nate Davis.

Originally posted by zeppfan1:
good point, but Singletary is foolishly and blindly behind Smith. Someone please stop the horror.

WHO ELSE DO WE HAVE?

Bottom line, Carr knows and REMEMBERS the playbook faster , but he sucks.

We can't just throw in T.Smith off the bat.

The only way is if we put Carr in for one series, he fails or falls down in the fetal position like always, and throw in T.Smith quickly next series.

Maybe he knows a little bit of the playbook.


A.Smith looked ok on the first series against the Falcons, but failed later on.

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Fitzpatrick for Edwards
Vick for Kolb
Collins for Young
Clausen for Moore
Gradkowski for Campbell
Hall for Anderson
Thigpen for Henne
let me know if I forgot anyone else...

Doesn't it make sense to bench a starter for at least a quarter or a half, like Tenneesee did with Vince Young. They gave Vince his starting position back the next week, but it also sent the message that you need to preform at a certain level. This is the NFL. Campbell got benched and even the Raiders went with a QB that helps them move the ball. Whinenhunt had the balls to pull Anderson from the game to put in a nobody at QB, but he did it to send a message.

I'm tired of the excuse, do you really think Carr is better than Smith? He doesn't have to be physically better, he just has to make less mistakes. I'm still hoping we can run off 4 or 5 of the next six against less talented opponets, but we can't if we keep killing ourselves. We were 10 seconds away from being 2-2 with less than average QB play, I wonder what we can be with just average QB play.

Lastly in the words of one Michael Singletary, "Don't Tell me, Show Me"

I know Carr might not be as good, but as soon Alex throws 2 more INTs in a game i would like to see him benched to send the message, you can't turn the ball over 2+ times a game week in and week out. Let Carr play a quarter just so Alex sees what it looks like to take care of the ball.

What exactly in David Carr's history makes you think he would "take care of the ball?"

Most of the situations you cite are different that this one.

Vick went in for Kolb because Kolb got hurt in Game 1.

Collins replaced Young because Young didn't prepare well that week and then played horribly but Young has a good history of recent success dating back to last year.

Thigpen replaced Henne in garbage time (at least for now).

Tom Cable likes Gradkowski because of what he did last year. Singletary does not feel the same way about Carr.

Clausen and Hall are more like if Nate Davis took over.

Fitzpatrick taking over for Edwards would probably be the most like Carr taking over for Smith.

If they're going to make a change at QB to try to save the season, Singeltary would likely want to try Troy Smith but he probably doesn't know the offense well enough yet.

If they're going to make a change at QB because the season is lost, then it has to be Nate Davis.

Look up his stats and you will see that David has thrown less Int's per attempt than Alex.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Fitzpatrick for Edwards
Vick for Kolb
Collins for Young
Clausen for Moore
Gradkowski for Campbell
Hall for Anderson
Thigpen for Henne
let me know if I forgot anyone else...

Doesn't it make sense to bench a starter for at least a quarter or a half, like Tenneesee did with Vince Young. They gave Vince his starting position back the next week, but it also sent the message that you need to preform at a certain level. This is the NFL. Campbell got benched and even the Raiders went with a QB that helps them move the ball. Whinenhunt had the balls to pull Anderson from the game to put in a nobody at QB, but he did it to send a message.

I'm tired of the excuse, do you really think Carr is better than Smith? He doesn't have to be physically better, he just has to make less mistakes. I'm still hoping we can run off 4 or 5 of the next six against less talented opponets, but we can't if we keep killing ourselves. We were 10 seconds away from being 2-2 with less than average QB play, I wonder what we can be with just average QB play.

Lastly in the words of one Michael Singletary, "Don't Tell me, Show Me"

I know Carr might not be as good, but as soon Alex throws 2 more INTs in a game i would like to see him benched to send the message, you can't turn the ball over 2+ times a game week in and week out. Let Carr play a quarter just so Alex sees what it looks like to take care of the ball.

What exactly in David Carr's history makes you think he would "take care of the ball?"

Most of the situations you cite are different that this one.

Vick went in for Kolb because Kolb got hurt in Game 1.

Collins replaced Young because Young didn't prepare well that week and then played horribly but Young has a good history of recent success dating back to last year.

Thigpen replaced Henne in garbage time (at least for now).

Tom Cable likes Gradkowski because of what he did last year. Singletary does not feel the same way about Carr.

Clausen and Hall are more like if Nate Davis took over.

Fitzpatrick taking over for Edwards would probably be the most like Carr taking over for Smith.

If they're going to make a change at QB to try to save the season, Singeltary would likely want to try Troy Smith but he probably doesn't know the offense well enough yet.

If they're going to make a change at QB because the season is lost, then it has to be Nate Davis.

Look up his stats and you will see that David has thrown less Int's per attempt than Alex.

Okay, I did just that...in the the two places he's actually started (Houston and Carolina), he's thrown more INTs than TDs overall for his stints in each place. The only time he didn't thrown more INTs than TDs is as a back-up with the Giants. Oh, and he's fumbled 70 times in his career. That's right, 70, despite hardly playing for 3 years with the Giants. For all the talk about Smith's "small hands", he's fumbled 32 times in his career.

Once you factor in the fumbles, it is, at best questionable whether Carr can take care of the ball better than Smith has.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by zeppfan1:
good point, but Singletary is foolishly and blindly behind Smith. Someone please stop the horror.

WHO ELSE DO WE HAVE?

Bottom line, Carr knows and REMEMBERS the playbook faster , but he sucks.

We can't just throw in T.Smith off the bat.

The only way is if we put Carr in for one series, he fails or falls down in the fetal position like always, and throw in T.Smith quickly next series.

Maybe he knows a little bit of the playbook.


A.Smith looked ok on the first series against the Falcons, but failed later on.

But Alex isn't winning. Hes actually causing problems for the team. Troy or Nate could possibly be better. I mean they can't be any worse because we are 0-4

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by zeppfan1:
good point, but Singletary is foolishly and blindly behind Smith. Someone please stop the horror.

WHO ELSE DO WE HAVE?

Bottom line, Carr knows and REMEMBERS the playbook faster , but he sucks.

We can't just throw in T.Smith off the bat.

The only way is if we put Carr in for one series, he fails or falls down in the fetal position like always, and throw in T.Smith quickly next series.

Maybe he knows a little bit of the playbook.


A.Smith looked ok on the first series against the Falcons, but failed later on.

But Alex isn't winning. Hes actually causing problems for the team. Troy or Nate could possibly be better. I mean they can't be any worse because we are 0-4

That is a stupid argument. They can definitely be worse. Just because we are 0-4 doesn't mean that players can't perform even worse. All 4 games could have been blowouts for example. Or A Smith could have thrown 5 int's per game. Or David could have 15 drops. We would still be 0-4 but our players would have played worse than they have now. What if the Niners put in another QB this game to start, and that QB is completely awful. At least Smith has been moving the team for the most part, it is just the stupid drive killing mistakes by the whole offense (many by Smith) that are killing things. If you take out Smith, and the other guys are even less effective then you are totally screwed. That is how teams go 0-16. Maybe that wouldn't be the worst thing though because #1 pick might be nice to have this year.

I still tend to believe that the team will turn things around. I'm not sure they will make the playoffs, but they have had some bad luck as well as poor play. People are still over reacting to how poorly Alex has played. He has not been great, but he hasn't been horrible. There are many other problems with this team on offense. It is just convenient to blame him. He gives the niners the best chance to win out of all the options we have. Remember if the defense stops Brees and Ryan (NATE!!!) then we are 2-2 and looking good. What I am trying to say is there are team wide issues, as well as some QB issues.

Originally posted by OregonNiner87:

Originally posted by smithgdwg:

Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
Alex Smith being benched = season is completely over. You don't know football if you don't realize this.

At least wait for a loss to the Eagles.

Season already over with Smith in there, so I don't see the difference.

That's my point.

No QB on this team offers any better chance to win than Alex. At least he's got experience with the system and has more talent.

^^^^^

I tend to agree with you...in Singetary's case, he doesn't have confidence in Carr, so unless Alex totally tanks a game, we probably won't see him on the field. All of which is a key reason I want Singletary replaced at mid-season...I think Gruden's a very good fit as our head coach. He totally gets modern-day offenses and knows how to manage a game. It's really the difference in that and overall gameday experience that makes me want Gruden. Billick wouldn't be a bad choice, either. We really need a head coach who understands offenses and isn't afraid to make changes on the fly, when warranted.

Although it was on the other side of the ball, did you see how Belichick really coached up his defense last night. We need a head coach who can do that on offense and/or defense...there are just times when a head coach needs to "take over", like Belichick did last night. Singletary can't do either...which is really hurting our team.

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by zeppfan1:
good point, but Singletary is foolishly and blindly behind Smith. Someone please stop the horror.

WHO ELSE DO WE HAVE?

Bottom line, Carr knows and REMEMBERS the playbook faster , but he sucks.

We can't just throw in T.Smith off the bat.

The only way is if we put Carr in for one series, he fails or falls down in the fetal position like always, and throw in T.Smith quickly next series.

Maybe he knows a little bit of the playbook.


A.Smith looked ok on the first series against the Falcons, but failed later on.

But Alex isn't winning. Hes actually causing problems for the team. Troy or Nate could possibly be better. I mean they can't be any worse because we are 0-4

That is a stupid argument. They can definitely be worse. Just because we are 0-4 doesn't mean that players can't perform even worse. All 4 games could have been blowouts for example. Or A Smith could have thrown 5 int's per game. Or David could have 15 drops. We would still be 0-4 but our players would have played worse than they have now. What if the Niners put in another QB this game to start, and that QB is completely awful. At least Smith has been moving the team for the most part, it is just the stupid drive killing mistakes by the whole offense (many by Smith) that are killing things. If you take out Smith, and the other guys are even less effective then you are totally screwed. That is how teams go 0-16. Maybe that wouldn't be the worst thing though because #1 pick might be nice to have this year.

I still tend to believe that the team will turn things around. I'm not sure they will make the playoffs, but they have had some bad luck as well as poor play. People are still over reacting to how poorly Alex has played. He has not been great, but he hasn't been horrible. There are many other problems with this team on offense. It is just convenient to blame him. He gives the niners the best chance to win out of all the options we have. Remember if the defense stops Brees and Ryan (NATE!!!) then we are 2-2 and looking good. What I am trying to say is there are team wide issues, as well as some QB issues.

So based on your theory Alex can play horrible (like his) for the rest of the season and he shouldn't be replaced just because he "gives us the best shot at winning" Ummmmm where is the proof in that? We have yet to see what Troy or Davis can do on the field, and no to Carr he is just as bad.

P.S IMO you really cant do worse than Alex is right now. Throwing picks, scoring 2 TDs and one useless TD. Hes throwing the ball high over his players and is checking down wayy to much because he is afraid.

Him not taking chances and going to his WRs is HURTING the O

Originally posted by wailers15:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Fitzpatrick for Edwards
Vick for Kolb
Collins for Young
Clausen for Moore
Gradkowski for Campbell
Hall for Anderson
Thigpen for Henne
let me know if I forgot anyone else...

Doesn't it make sense to bench a starter for at least a quarter or a half, like Tenneesee did with Vince Young. They gave Vince his starting position back the next week, but it also sent the message that you need to preform at a certain level. This is the NFL. Campbell got benched and even the Raiders went with a QB that helps them move the ball. Whinenhunt had the balls to pull Anderson from the game to put in a nobody at QB, but he did it to send a message.

I'm tired of the excuse, do you really think Carr is better than Smith? He doesn't have to be physically better, he just has to make less mistakes. I'm still hoping we can run off 4 or 5 of the next six against less talented opponets, but we can't if we keep killing ourselves. We were 10 seconds away from being 2-2 with less than average QB play, I wonder what we can be with just average QB play.

Lastly in the words of one Michael Singletary, "Don't Tell me, Show Me"

I know Carr might not be as good, but as soon Alex throws 2 more INTs in a game i would like to see him benched to send the message, you can't turn the ball over 2+ times a game week in and week out. Let Carr play a quarter just so Alex sees what it looks like to take care of the ball.

LOL Kolb was never benched

he wasn't benched during the game, but he was benched after he was cleared to play and Vick outplayed him while he was injured.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by OregonNiner87:

Originally posted by smithgdwg:

Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
Alex Smith being benched = season is completely over. You don't know football if you don't realize this.

At least wait for a loss to the Eagles.

Season already over with Smith in there, so I don't see the difference.

That's my point.

No QB on this team offers any better chance to win than Alex. At least he's got experience with the system and has more talent.

^^^^^

You could say the same thing about Chad Henne, you can't tell me Thigpen has more talent or experience in the system. But the coach had the balls to pull Henne to send a message, a big game on a big stage you can't turn the ball over 2+ times.

Like the titans did with VY, its okay to send a message, and then give the guy back his starting job. Alex leads the league in INTs, he isn't taking care of the ball, on our two losses on the final play if he didn't turn the ball over it would have given us a better chance to win.

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Fitzpatrick for Edwards
Vick for Kolb
Collins for Young
Clausen for Moore
Gradkowski for Campbell
Hall for Anderson
Thigpen for Henne
let me know if I forgot anyone else...

Doesn't it make sense to bench a starter for at least a quarter or a half, like Tenneesee did with Vince Young. They gave Vince his starting position back the next week, but it also sent the message that you need to preform at a certain level. This is the NFL. Campbell got benched and even the Raiders went with a QB that helps them move the ball. Whinenhunt had the balls to pull Anderson from the game to put in a nobody at QB, but he did it to send a message.

I'm tired of the excuse, do you really think Carr is better than Smith? He doesn't have to be physically better, he just has to make less mistakes. I'm still hoping we can run off 4 or 5 of the next six against less talented opponets, but we can't if we keep killing ourselves. We were 10 seconds away from being 2-2 with less than average QB play, I wonder what we can be with just average QB play.

Lastly in the words of one Michael Singletary, "Don't Tell me, Show Me"

I know Carr might not be as good, but as soon Alex throws 2 more INTs in a game i would like to see him benched to send the message, you can't turn the ball over 2+ times a game week in and week out. Let Carr play a quarter just so Alex sees what it looks like to take care of the ball.

What exactly in David Carr's history makes you think he would "take care of the ball?"

Most of the situations you cite are different that this one.

Vick went in for Kolb because Kolb got hurt in Game 1.

Collins replaced Young because Young didn't prepare well that week and then played horribly but Young has a good history of recent success dating back to last year.

Thigpen replaced Henne in garbage time (at least for now).

Tom Cable likes Gradkowski because of what he did last year. Singletary does not feel the same way about Carr.

Clausen and Hall are more like if Nate Davis took over.

Fitzpatrick taking over for Edwards would probably be the most like Carr taking over for Smith.

If they're going to make a change at QB to try to save the season, Singeltary would likely want to try Troy Smith but he probably doesn't know the offense well enough yet.

If they're going to make a change at QB because the season is lost, then it has to be Nate Davis.

Look up his stats and you will see that David has thrown less Int's per attempt than Alex.

Okay, I did just that...in the the two places he's actually started (Houston and Carolina), he's thrown more INTs than TDs overall for his stints in each place. The only time he didn't thrown more INTs than TDs is as a back-up with the Giants. Oh, and he's fumbled 70 times in his career. That's right, 70, despite hardly playing for 3 years with the Giants. For all the talk about Smith's "small hands", he's fumbled 32 times in his career.

Once you factor in the fumbles, it is, at best questionable whether Carr can take care of the ball better than Smith has.

So has Alex; but, the ratio is worse for Alex when you calculate the number of attempts... Face it, Alex has been Sh!t and Carr has been better when you look over their respective careers... I'm not saying Carr is all the good either; I'm just saying that Alex has been worse.

Originally posted by excelsior:
Maiocco had a smart article today. Boy, its so refreshing to read something written by smart people who bother to do their homework. He analyzed the game, focusing in on Alex's three "bone-head plays. (1) Alex seemed to want to go to Vernon, but Vernon did not turn his head, so Alex had to checkdown to Gore. Just then the pocket was collapsing and as he threw he bumped into Baas, who was being pushed back. The bump altered his throw and it went high = INT. (2) the second INT was because the LB was expected to follow Vernon, but because Alex's eyes was on Morgan, the LB changed directions and was able to deflect the ball = INTT. Alex's fault. (3) Alex was being sacked and in depseration he flung the ball toward Gore = 10 yard grounding penalty. Good play by Alex. If the refs had given him the benefit of the doubt, it would have been an incomp. If he had done nothing it would have been a 10 yard loss on the sack. Either way, we were out of FG range.

Maiocco's analysis was that Alex had screwed up once.

See, with a little study, you can see why the pros are sticking with Alex. He played well - not perfect - but well.

Almost every "pro" analyst in the world thinks Smith sucks. An inexperienced coach with no clue thinks Smith is playing well.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Fitzpatrick for Edwards
Vick for Kolb
Collins for Young
Clausen for Moore
Gradkowski for Campbell
Hall for Anderson
Thigpen for Henne
let me know if I forgot anyone else...

Doesn't it make sense to bench a starter for at least a quarter or a half, like Tenneesee did with Vince Young. They gave Vince his starting position back the next week, but it also sent the message that you need to preform at a certain level. This is the NFL. Campbell got benched and even the Raiders went with a QB that helps them move the ball. Whinenhunt had the balls to pull Anderson from the game to put in a nobody at QB, but he did it to send a message.

I'm tired of the excuse, do you really think Carr is better than Smith? He doesn't have to be physically better, he just has to make less mistakes. I'm still hoping we can run off 4 or 5 of the next six against less talented opponets, but we can't if we keep killing ourselves. We were 10 seconds away from being 2-2 with less than average QB play, I wonder what we can be with just average QB play.

Lastly in the words of one Michael Singletary, "Don't Tell me, Show Me"

I know Carr might not be as good, but as soon Alex throws 2 more INTs in a game i would like to see him benched to send the message, you can't turn the ball over 2+ times a game week in and week out. Let Carr play a quarter just so Alex sees what it looks like to take care of the ball.

What exactly in David Carr's history makes you think he would "take care of the ball?"

Most of the situations you cite are different that this one.

Vick went in for Kolb because Kolb got hurt in Game 1.

Collins replaced Young because Young didn't prepare well that week and then played horribly but Young has a good history of recent success dating back to last year.

Thigpen replaced Henne in garbage time (at least for now).

Tom Cable likes Gradkowski because of what he did last year. Singletary does not feel the same way about Carr.

Clausen and Hall are more like if Nate Davis took over.

Fitzpatrick taking over for Edwards would probably be the most like Carr taking over for Smith.

If they're going to make a change at QB to try to save the season, Singeltary would likely want to try Troy Smith but he probably doesn't know the offense well enough yet.

If they're going to make a change at QB because the season is lost, then it has to be Nate Davis.

Look up his stats and you will see that David has thrown less Int's per attempt than Alex.

Okay, I did just that...in the the two places he's actually started (Houston and Carolina), he's thrown more INTs than TDs overall for his stints in each place. The only time he didn't thrown more INTs than TDs is as a back-up with the Giants. Oh, and he's fumbled 70 times in his career. That's right, 70, despite hardly playing for 3 years with the Giants. For all the talk about Smith's "small hands", he's fumbled 32 times in his career.

Once you factor in the fumbles, it is, at best questionable whether Carr can take care of the ball better than Smith has.

So has Alex; but, the ratio is worse for Alex when you calculate the number of attempts... Face it, Alex has been Sh!t and Carr has been better when you look over their respective careers... I'm not saying Carr is all the good either; I'm just saying that Alex has been worse.

So, you're just ignoring Carr's larger number of fumbles altogether? A turnover is a turnover, isn't it?