The NFL's # 1 Defense Thread

Originally posted by oldman9er:
We actually do run quite a lot of stunts.

I'll admit, I struggle to notice them happening until I watch the games back.

I gotcha, yeah I don't re watch the games thanks. We obv just suck at them

Originally posted by oldman9er:
We actually do run quite a lot of stunts.

I'll admit, I struggle to notice them happening until I watch the games back.

I gotcha, yeah I don't re watch the games thanks. We obv just suck at them

our defense sucks.

I hate Manusky

Originally posted by ninersrule4:


Thats one of the FEW plays Im referring too


We hardly use them

I was agreeing with you that they work.

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
We actually do run quite a lot of stunts.

I'll admit, I struggle to notice them happening until I watch the games back.

I gotcha, yeah I don't re watch the games thanks. We obv just suck at them

Yeah, my eyes are darting all over the place pre-snap, so later when I watch again, I'm like, "oh wow... didn't see them do that" all of the time.

My repetitive theory is this. We typically play soft CB cushions outside. This allows QBs to quickly hit their 1st/2nd reads underneath, which hurts our pass rush. If an opposing QB is getting rid of the ball in 3 seconds or less, we're not often if ever gonna get him. So yeah, these stunts take too long to develop... but if we could get the QB to pull the ball back down in search for his 3rd/4th read? They will probably be quite effective.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Yeah, my eyes are darting all over the place pre-snap, so later when I watch again, I'm like, "oh wow... didn't see them do that" all of the time.

My repetitive theory is this. We typically play soft CB cushions outside. This allows QBs to quickly hit their 1st/2nd reads underneath, which hurts our pass rush. If an opposing QB is getting rid of the ball in 3 seconds or less, we're not often if ever gonna get him. So yeah, these stunts take too long to develop... but if we could get the QB to pull the ball back down in search for his 3rd/4th read? They will probably be quite effective.

The highlight I posted on the last page where Lawson drills Orton on the stunt is the perfect example of how it needs to be done. The coverage is soft, like it always is. You just have to create a lane for the speed rusher.

I do agree about the soft coverage allowing the QB to hit a short route too easily when they feel pressure. I'm so sick of this "Four Deep Shell" s**t. Bend, but don't break, my ass.

It's also one of the main reasons we suck against screens. Deep coverage, plus pinching to stop the run creates this huge void on the edge.

All that said, we still need a better pass rush. I'm talking individual effort. We allow way too much time to throw, even when we rush five....

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
We actually do run quite a lot of stunts.

I'll admit, I struggle to notice them happening until I watch the games back.

I gotcha, yeah I don't re watch the games thanks. We obv just suck at them

Yeah, my eyes are darting all over the place pre-snap, so later when I watch again, I'm like, "oh wow... didn't see them do that" all of the time.

My repetitive theory is this. We typically play soft CB cushions outside. This allows QBs to quickly hit their 1st/2nd reads underneath, which hurts our pass rush. If an opposing QB is getting rid of the ball in 3 seconds or less, we're not often if ever gonna get him. So yeah, these stunts take too long to develop... but if we could get the QB to pull the ball back down in search for his 3rd/4th read? They will probably be quite effective.

We have seemed to play well against the better QB's in the league. I think we try to hard to stop the run against unproven QB's not respecting their passing game enough. Look at what was done to Sanchez. Rather than blitzing him and loading the box to stop the run, he was up against a coverage defense Sunday and he couldn't find anyone open and began making mistakes.

It's much easier for QB's to make a read and throw to a receiver when the box is loaded and the defense is set to stop the run...correction...easier for everyone but Alex Smith because that's what teams have done to us.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
We actually do run quite a lot of stunts.

I'll admit, I struggle to notice them happening until I watch the games back.

I gotcha, yeah I don't re watch the games thanks. We obv just suck at them

Yeah, my eyes are darting all over the place pre-snap, so later when I watch again, I'm like, "oh wow... didn't see them do that" all of the time.

My repetitive theory is this. We typically play soft CB cushions outside. This allows QBs to quickly hit their 1st/2nd reads underneath, which hurts our pass rush. If an opposing QB is getting rid of the ball in 3 seconds or less, we're not often if ever gonna get him. So yeah, these stunts take too long to develop... but if we could get the QB to pull the ball back down in search for his 3rd/4th read? They will probably be quite effective.

We have seemed to play well against the better QB's in the league. I think we try to hard to stop the run against unproven QB's not respecting their passing game enough. Look at what was done to Sanchez. Rather than blitzing him and loading the box to stop the run, he was up against a coverage defense Sunday and he couldn't find anyone open and began making mistakes.

It's much easier for QB's to make a read and throw to a receiver when the box is loaded and the defense is set to stop the run...correction...easier for everyone but Alex Smith because that's what teams have done to us.

Unsurprisingly, you find some way to mention Alex in a thread completely unrelated.

Fella, please get outta the man's buttocks already. There is more to life than obsessing about Alex Smith!!! You're creepy!

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
We actually do run quite a lot of stunts.

I'll admit, I struggle to notice them happening until I watch the games back.

I gotcha, yeah I don't re watch the games thanks. We obv just suck at them

Yeah, my eyes are darting all over the place pre-snap, so later when I watch again, I'm like, "oh wow... didn't see them do that" all of the time.

My repetitive theory is this. We typically play soft CB cushions outside. This allows QBs to quickly hit their 1st/2nd reads underneath, which hurts our pass rush. If an opposing QB is getting rid of the ball in 3 seconds or less, we're not often if ever gonna get him. So yeah, these stunts take too long to develop... but if we could get the QB to pull the ball back down in search for his 3rd/4th read? They will probably be quite effective.

We have seemed to play well against the better QB's in the league. I think we try to hard to stop the run against unproven QB's not respecting their passing game enough. Look at what was done to Sanchez. Rather than blitzing him and loading the box to stop the run, he was up against a coverage defense Sunday and he couldn't find anyone open and began making mistakes.

It's much easier for QB's to make a read and throw to a receiver when the box is loaded and the defense is set to stop the run...correction...easier for everyone but Alex Smith because that's what teams have done to us.

Unsurprisingly, you find some way to mention Alex in a thread completely unrelated.

Fella, please get outta the man's buttocks already. There is more to life than obsessing about Alex Smith!!! You're creepy!

That was just for fun and you only focused on that. Who cares.

That doesn't change the fact that we have played the better/elite QB's well. In the past few years, backups and unproven QB's keep burning us. Do you think it's because we don't prepare a game plan as focused on stopping the pass unless we are playing a high rated passing offense?

It just seems like lazy game planning to me.

I posted this in the Spencer thread, but thought it belonged here in retrospect.

I hate our coverage schemes so much. Our players are so much better than this if utilized properly. My opinion anyway.

So that I'm not one of "those guys" who b***hes without a solution, I'll give mine. If you don't enjoy reading, skip to the next post.

1. Bench Goldson

2. Move Mays to FS

3. Start Reggie Smith at SS

Now, I'm not a defensive coordinator. I don't have any experience calling plays (except in Madden, lulz). I have a limited knowledge of scheme, as I'm sure most of us do.

That said, I think we should run what I think would be (at least similar to) a cover 6. Clements plays man coverage, in the WRs face, jamming him all day. This also puts Clements in position to take advantage of (IMO) his best attribute as a corner... his play against the run. It helps against the outside runs and screens we've been burned by. Reggie Smith at SS plays close to center field in deep zone, almost in cover 3 position. I think he is our best pure cover safety and would be best suited to picking up TEs running deep down the seam and most importantly, providing Clements help over the top because we all know Clement's penchant for biting.

On the other side, Spencer plays a short zone (shorter than our lame duck four shell) and does what I think he does best, which is shadow receivers. Mays would play FS, also in a short zone. This maximizes his ability to roam the field without leaving him as the last line of defense. He'll be up and ready to Blitz, pick up a TE on a short route, and play run defense. He has the speed to drop deep from a blitz position, which is crucial to creating confusion (why run a damn 3-4 if you aren't trying to confuse your opponent?). Now, Spencer and Mays primary responsibility would be working in tandem to cover the right side WR. Spencer keeps his man shadowed and covered very well, but hasn't shown the best ball awareness. This would be where Mays would take over, becoming an enforcer and perhaps even a play maker when a QB tries to beat Spencer's coverage. So, they would play almost like a quarters style coverage, but more aggressive with Mays closer to the line, but both still technically responsible for the deep quarters of the field. With Mays playing a short zone closer to the line, it will help limit those screen passes and outside runs we have such trouble with. Plus, who isn't salivating at the thought of Mays blitzing from the QB's blind-side?

The line backers are then free to do what the 3-4 does best. Create as much confusion as possible. No need to send them back in coverage on every play anymore because the middle has a safety with corner speed and linebacker size roaming it.

This scheme puts a lot of pressure on Reggie Smith, though. He'd have to pick up Clements man quickly over the top, but also watch for plays that force Mays up in coverage and Spencer deep. I don't know if he's up to the task, but I do feel he is the best pure cover safety we have.

This alignment can also be inverted, depending on the type of WRs the offense has. You don't always have to play Clements on the #1 WR... he should take the guy that has the most trouble with physical corners.

Sorry for the long ass post. Our coverage scheme has been pissing me off all season and I've b***hed about it, so I felt obligated to sack up and provide a solution. Mostly though, it was just me venting. If you read the whole thing, thanks. Feel free to rip it apart, I've got no ego here.

Set browser to flame, I can take the heat, here it comes....

Manusky is not that good, and our d-line is awful!

After Sing is fired I don't care if Manusky gets dumped by the new head coach!

We finished high last year in defensive ranks because of strong play against the weaker teams near the end of the season. I would not be suprised if we rank a top 10 defense overall by season's end considering the opponents we have remaining. So far though, they have been dissappointing.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Yeah, my eyes are darting all over the place pre-snap, so later when I watch again, I'm like, "oh wow... didn't see them do that" all of the time.

My repetitive theory is this. We typically play soft CB cushions outside. This allows QBs to quickly hit their 1st/2nd reads underneath, which hurts our pass rush. If an opposing QB is getting rid of the ball in 3 seconds or less, we're not often if ever gonna get him. So yeah, these stunts take too long to develop... but if we could get the QB to pull the ball back down in search for his 3rd/4th read? They will probably be quite effective.

The highlight I posted on the last page where Lawson drills Orton on the stunt is the perfect example of how it needs to be done. The coverage is soft, like it always is. You just have to create a lane for the speed rusher.

I do agree about the soft coverage allowing the QB to hit a short route too easily when they feel pressure. I'm so sick of this "Four Deep Shell" s**t. Bend, but don't break, my ass.

It's also one of the main reasons we suck against screens. Deep coverage, plus pinching to stop the run creates this huge void on the edge.

All that said, we still need a better pass rush. I'm talking individual effort. We allow way too much time to throw, even when we rush five....

A good part of an effective blitz or pass rush package is the ability to cover the short middle zones with a linebacker. If the QB is allowed to quickly dump the ball over the middle before the rusher gets to him, then the effort is wasted.

Unfortunately, pass coverage is not Willis' strong suit and Spikes is even less effective in that regard. It would be nice if Bowman could learn coverage as he has the speed and agility to be an effective cover backer in short zones.

Originally posted by dj43:

A good part of an effective blitz or pass rush package is the ability to cover the short middle zones with a linebacker. If the QB is allowed to quickly dump the ball over the middle before the rusher gets to him, then the effort is wasted.

Unfortunately, pass coverage is not Willis' strong suit and Spikes is even less effective in that regard. It would be nice if Bowman could learn coverage as he has the speed and agility to be an effective cover backer in short zones.

I just posted my solution to the coverage problem. You're a smart dude and it's obvious you get defensive schemes. Rip it apart for me, would you?