Keep Brooks' Running Club

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i like him too howevever i dont think we should start him remember haralson was just about doing the same thing on the bench im not saying there isnt a difference because it does look like brooks is faster adn more explosive however i think laboy should sart over haralson and have brooks come in much more

honestly i can see him having a sack a game

Yes but I haven't seen Haralson run down a sweep/screen pass from the other end of the field. Brooks did it once yesterday. He is bigger (260), faster, quicker, stronger, and a much better rusher than Haralson. He is also very solid against the run and defended some passes last year.

Between Brooks and Manny, we have every down linebackers with Laboy giving them breathers in case one's legs get tired.

People are so used to our vanilla 3-4 that they have NO IDEA what just ONE pass rushing OLB in this defense would do for our overall defense esp. if that player can be an every down SAM or WILL. Just one...ideally, we'd want two like the Steelers (hence a major resson they rank #1 in defense almost every year and are off to even better start this year):

1. It would mean the offense would have to account for him with a TE and/or RB or help from another linemen. Can you imagine what that would do for a Smith, an inside rush from Willis and/or TKO. It would also allow Goldson to rush more from the safety position.
2. It would mean our secondary could play tight coverage, man-to-man, be aggressive and take chances (what they do best)
3. It would make Michael Lewis look better in coverage too and allow him to play even more aggressively in the box as essentially, another LB
4. Naturally, it would allow this defense to dictate the offense more, play more aggressively and make everyone, even the other OLB spot, so much more effective. It would allow Manny to feed off the pressure Mario Williams used to provide for him and allow the DB's to cover TE' and RB's, focus more on screens and even get a few clean-up sacks himself
5. Having an every down pass rusher adds bck the "disguise" of the blitz (e.g. the backbone) to come back in and allow Manusky to be much more creative in his blitz schemes (see Jets). We wouldn't have to play "prevent" when the game is on the line like we saw agianst Minnesota last year and the Sainst the other night
6. Turnovers...one guy could ultimately mean we start winning the TO battle like last year

If we had two FT pass rushing OLB, we'd be the best defense in the league, no question.

People forget on this board that Brooks was an ILB and already IS great against the run...LaBoy was a starter and also is very effective against the run. We may be the only 3-4 defense in the league that does not put a premium on pass rushing OLB's. In fact, our two best players for a real 3-4 at the OLB positions may be sitting on the bench right now and referred to as "specialists." What a shame...

Right now, offenses don't even THINK of Lawson/Haralson as neither will be providing any type of pressure (combined = zero sacks and one QB hit = pathetic esp. given they, like last year, are almost exclusively rushing the passer on every down).

It's time to get some balls and start working these two into a starting role and see if that, like last year, lights a fire under Lawson 9and perhaps, Haralson) coming in off the bench.

[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 22, 2010 at 12:25:18 ]

Sit Haralson and start Brooks!

He's our best pass rusher and he's solid against the run. Haralson has never been a very effective pass rusher and he's certainly not a playmaker. Brooks though, he's got all the tools to be a dominant OLB. We're much better when he's in the game.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i like him too howevever i dont think we should start him remember haralson was just about doing the same thing on the bench im not saying there isnt a difference because it does look like brooks is faster adn more explosive however i think laboy should sart over haralson and have brooks come in much more

honestly i can see him having a sack a game

Yes but I haven't seen Haralson run down a sweep/screen pass from the other end of the field. Brooks did it once yesterday. He is bigger (260), faster, quicker, stronger, and a much better rusher than Haralson. He is also very solid against the run and defended some passes last year.

Between Brooks and Manny, we have every down linebackers with Laboy giving them breathers in case one's legs get tired.

People are so used to our vanilla 3-4 that they have NO IDEA what just ONE pass rushing OLB in this defense would do for our overall defense esp. if that player can be an every down SAM or WILL. Just one...ideally, we'd want two like the Steelers (hence a major resson they rank #1 in defense almost every year and are off to even better start this year):

1. It would mean the offense would have to account for him with a TE and/or RB or help from another linemen. Can you imagine what that would do for a Smith, an inside rush from Willis and/or TKO. It would also allow Goldson to rush more from the safety position.
2. It would mean our secondary could play tight coverage, man-to-man, be aggressive and take chances (what they do best)
3. It would make Michael Lewis look better in coverage too and allow him to play even more aggressively in the box as essentially, another LB
4. Naturally, it would allow this defense to dictate the offense more, play more aggressively and make everyone, even the other OLB spot, so much more effective. It would allow Manny to feed off the pressure Mario Williams used to provide for him and allow the DB's to cover TE' and RB's, focus more on screens and even get a few clean-up sacks himself
5. Having an every down pass rusher adds bck the "disguise" of the blitz (e.g. the backbone) to come back in and allow Manusky to be much more creative in his blitz schemes (see Jets). We wouldn't have to play "prevent" when the game is on the line like we saw agianst Minnesota last year and the Sainst the other night
6. Turnovers...one guy could ultimately mean we start winning the TO battle like last year

If we had two FT pass rushing OLB, we'd be the best defense in the league, no question.

People forget on this board forget that Brooks was an ILB and already IS great against the run...LaBoy was a starter and also as very effective agianst the run. We may be the only 3-4 defense in the league that does not put a premium on pass rushing OLB's. In fact, our two best players for a real 3-4 at the OLB positions may be sitting on the bench right now and referred to as "specialists." What a shame...

Right now, offenses don't even THINK of Lawson/Haralson as neither will be providing any type of pressure (combined = zero sacks and one QB hit = pathetic esp. given they, like last year, are almost exclusively rushing the passer on every down).

It's time to get some balls and start working these two into a starting role and see if that, like last year, lights a fire under Lawson 9and perhaps, Haralson) coming in off the bench.

In a 3-4, you WANT your OLB's to be pass rush specialists. In our case, at least for one of them, Brooks would also be able to handle the run well. I'm sure we will see more and more of them but couldn't this last game due to Brooks first game back and the fact that Breese and the Saints throw a s**t load of screens and are very deadly on them.

he is gonna be a goddamn star in this league imo. The talent is there, we just don't know if the consistency is until he gets more playing time.

Plus, I'm pretty sure Brooks is the one who injured Bush on that Punt Return.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i like him too howevever i dont think we should start him remember haralson was just about doing the same thing on the bench im not saying there isnt a difference because it does look like brooks is faster adn more explosive however i think laboy should sart over haralson and have brooks come in much more

honestly i can see him having a sack a game

Yes but I haven't seen Haralson run down a sweep/screen pass from the other end of the field. Brooks did it once yesterday. He is bigger (260), faster, quicker, stronger, and a much better rusher than Haralson. He is also very solid against the run and defended some passes last year.

Between Brooks and Manny, we have every down linebackers with Laboy giving them breathers in case one's legs get tired.

People are so used to our vanilla 3-4 that they have NO IDEA what just ONE pass rushing OLB in this defense would do for our overall defense esp. if that player can be an every down SAM or WILL. Just one...ideally, we'd want two like the Steelers (hence a major resson they rank #1 in defense almost every year and are off to even better start this year):

1. It would mean the offense would have to account for him with a TE and/or RB or help from another linemen. Can you imagine what that would do for a Smith, an inside rush from Willis and/or TKO. It would also allow Goldson to rush more from the safety position.
2. It would mean our secondary could play tight coverage, man-to-man, be aggressive and take chances (what they do best)
3. It would make Michael Lewis look better in coverage too and allow him to play even more aggressively in the box as essentially, another LB
4. Naturally, it would allow this defense to dictate the offense more, play more aggressively and make everyone, even the other OLB spot, so much more effective. It would allow Manny to feed off the pressure Mario Williams used to provide for him and allow the DB's to cover TE' and RB's, focus more on screens and even get a few clean-up sacks himself
5. Having an every down pass rusher adds bck the "disguise" of the blitz (e.g. the backbone) to come back in and allow Manusky to be much more creative in his blitz schemes (see Jets). We wouldn't have to play "prevent" when the game is on the line like we saw agianst Minnesota last year and the Sainst the other night
6. Turnovers...one guy could ultimately mean we start winning the TO battle like last year

If we had two FT pass rushing OLB, we'd be the best defense in the league, no question.

People forget on this board forget that Brooks was an ILB and already IS great against the run...LaBoy was a starter and also as very effective agianst the run. We may be the only 3-4 defense in the league that does not put a premium on pass rushing OLB's. In fact, our two best players for a real 3-4 at the OLB positions may be sitting on the bench right now and referred to as "specialists." What a shame...

Right now, offenses don't even THINK of Lawson/Haralson as neither will be providing any type of pressure (combined = zero sacks and one QB hit = pathetic esp. given they, like last year, are almost exclusively rushing the passer on every down).

It's time to get some balls and start working these two into a starting role and see if that, like last year, lights a fire under Lawson 9and perhaps, Haralson) coming in off the bench.

In a 3-4, you WANT your OLB's to be pass rush specialists. In our case, at least for one of them, Brooks would also be able to handle the run well. I'm sure we will see more and more of them but couldn't this last game due to Brooks first game back and the fact that Breese and the Saints throw a s**t load of screens and are very deadly on them.

Yeah, I sort of figured that was the case...the second he gets in the game, he gets a big sack, plays great against the run, is the first one down on ST (he's 260 pounds ppl!) and breaks Bush's leg, etc. I think he only got about 10 plays...maybe a dozen. So I figured, like you, they were working him back in. The dude is just a playmaker. Period. I hope he maintained his conditioning (if he even could with that injury). It may take him a few more weeks to get back to where he was before the injury conditioning-wise. But make no mistake about it, he WANTS that sack title this year and finally, that is the mentality this defense has lacked all along. If nothing else, I hope it pushes Lawson/Haralson's game again, like it did for Lawson last year!

Originally posted by Ninefan56:
I hope Manusky will give him more time. He seems to do well and I would like to see if he can hold the edge on runs. He seems to be much more active and involved than Harolson. I would like to see Lawson, Willis, Spikes/Bowman, Brooks.

Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Plus, I'm pretty sure Brooks is the one who injured Bush on that Punt Return.

actually think it was Walker who did, you can see him dive onto bush's right leg after brooks gets there first

The guy "has it". Our pass rush instantly improved once he got back. He is so natural and has great speed of the edge. You see break that double team vs the Saints to get that sack? If he can stay healthy, he will have 8-10 sacks this year. Really high on him

[ Edited by drake49er on Sep 23, 2010 at 03:03:37 ]

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i like him too howevever i dont think we should start him remember haralson was just about doing the same thing on the bench im not saying there isnt a difference because it does look like brooks is faster adn more explosive however i think laboy should sart over haralson and have brooks come in much more

honestly i can see him having a sack a game

Yes but I haven't seen Haralson run down a sweep/screen pass from the other end of the field. Brooks did it once yesterday. He is bigger (260), faster, quicker, stronger, and a much better rusher than Haralson. He is also very solid against the run and defended some passes last year.

Between Brooks and Manny, we have every down linebackers with Laboy giving them breathers in case one's legs get tired.

People are so used to our vanilla 3-4 that they have NO IDEA what just ONE pass rushing OLB in this defense would do for our overall defense esp. if that player can be an every down SAM or WILL. Just one...ideally, we'd want two like the Steelers (hence a major resson they rank #1 in defense almost every year and are off to even better start this year):

1. It would mean the offense would have to account for him with a TE and/or RB or help from another linemen. Can you imagine what that would do for a Smith, an inside rush from Willis and/or TKO. It would also allow Goldson to rush more from the safety position.
2. It would mean our secondary could play tight coverage, man-to-man, be aggressive and take chances (what they do best)
3. It would make Michael Lewis look better in coverage too and allow him to play even more aggressively in the box as essentially, another LB
4. Naturally, it would allow this defense to dictate the offense more, play more aggressively and make everyone, even the other OLB spot, so much more effective. It would allow Manny to feed off the pressure Mario Williams used to provide for him and allow the DB's to cover TE' and RB's, focus more on screens and even get a few clean-up sacks himself
5. Having an every down pass rusher adds bck the "disguise" of the blitz (e.g. the backbone) to come back in and allow Manusky to be much more creative in his blitz schemes (see Jets). We wouldn't have to play "prevent" when the game is on the line like we saw agianst Minnesota last year and the Sainst the other night
6. Turnovers...one guy could ultimately mean we start winning the TO battle like last year

If we had two FT pass rushing OLB, we'd be the best defense in the league, no question.

People forget on this board forget that Brooks was an ILB and already IS great against the run...LaBoy was a starter and also as very effective agianst the run. We may be the only 3-4 defense in the league that does not put a premium on pass rushing OLB's. In fact, our two best players for a real 3-4 at the OLB positions may be sitting on the bench right now and referred to as "specialists." What a shame...

Right now, offenses don't even THINK of Lawson/Haralson as neither will be providing any type of pressure (combined = zero sacks and one QB hit = pathetic esp. given they, like last year, are almost exclusively rushing the passer on every down).

It's time to get some balls and start working these two into a starting role and see if that, like last year, lights a fire under Lawson 9and perhaps, Haralson) coming in off the bench.

In a 3-4, you WANT your OLB's to be pass rush specialists. In our case, at least for one of them, Brooks would also be able to handle the run well. I'm sure we will see more and more of them but couldn't this last game due to Brooks first game back and the fact that Breese and the Saints throw a s**t load of screens and are very deadly on them.

Yeah, I sort of figured that was the case...the second he gets in the game, he gets a big sack, plays great against the run, is the first one down on ST (he's 260 pounds ppl!) and breaks Bush's leg, etc. I think he only got about 10 plays...maybe a dozen. So I figured, like you, they were working him back in. The dude is just a playmaker. Period. I hope he maintained his conditioning (if he even could with that injury). It may take him a few more weeks to get back to where he was before the injury conditioning-wise. But make no mistake about it, he WANTS that sack title this year and finally, that is the mentality this defense has lacked all along. If nothing else, I hope it pushes Lawson/Haralson's game again, like it did for Lawson last year!

Brooks is the key to this defense being the best in the league. The dude is a physical freak.

Demarcus Ware is at 260. Brooks needs to get reps and get back into it. We all know Singletary values him. Now imagine having a guy like Ware paired up with Patrick Will and Takeo Spikes. This defense is only going to get better.

I think Haralson should be benched. He has proven to be more of a liability than Brooks and Laboy. In fact, just cut him and resign Manny to an extension.

If I were management, I would cut Haralson. Start Brooks or Laboy in his position and sign Briggs to the active roster. Briggs > Haralson in terms of potential.

Brooks!

Originally posted by drake49er:
I think Haralson should be benched. He has proven to be more of a liability than Brooks and Laboy. In fact, just cut him and resign Manny to an extension.

If I were management, I would cut Haralson. Start Brooks or Laboy in his position and sign Briggs to the active roster. Briggs > Haralson in terms of potential.

Yes, I would definitely keep Manny over Haralson but Manny better not be asking for big money; that's probably needs to be allotted for Brooks.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Brooks is the key to this defense being the best in the league. The dude is a physical freak.

Demarcus Ware is at 260. Brooks needs to get reps and get back into it. We all know Singletary values him. Now imagine having a guy like Ware paired up with Patrick Will and Takeo Spikes. This defense is only going to get better.

That's physical with an "f" right? LOL. As far as Singletary goes, his statement on Brooks last week was that he didn't even know how he'd fit Brooks in and they aren't even considering looking at Haralson and Lawson's spots as they are playing "great." Like I said, this is the ONLY 3-4 defense in the league that doesn't put a premium on pass rushing OLB's. The focus is still more on running the ball and stopping the run. That said, we still get owned on screens esp. those to the SAM side and teams just pass on us. So far, our "philosophy" = 0-2! And isn't that the bottom line?