Singletary: Heitman's job in jeopardy

I don't either...but in a pinch, he can play a game or two there. That's why they retained Sims! OG's his best position...and I'm not sure Rachal's a better option there at this point. Chilo needs to step it up...his linemates are.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Having another guy who can play C and OG isn't a bad thing...some of the younger fans in this forum may not remember he was drafted as an OG and played there his first few seasons. The thing Baas has over Eric is he's a tougher blocker...he strengthens the interior OL, which was a problem last year. As for Rachal...I'm on the fencepost with him. What I know is Snyder played well there Monday night...but, of course his biggest value is he can play anywhere on the OL save C.

I haven't seen any indication this year that Baas is opening holes in the middle of the LOS, which is what Team Baas claimed would happen the moment he started in Game One. Instead, the yards are coming from off-tackle runs where guards are pulling, and over Iupati and Staley. The Seahawks completely dominated the middle of the LOS, and the Niners almost completely abandoned running up the gut after the first two series against the Saints, since it was ineffective.

Baas' strength so far (at least in the Saints game) has been a surprise to me. Along with Smith, he did a solid job of blitz pick-up. Now, having home field advantage is huge, and that may have played a huge role. I doubt the accomodations at Arrowhead will be as kind, and we may see a struggle once again. But, I have to hand it to him in this one area in the Saints game.

In the end, Heitmann is still the better center, and that will play itself out when he returns from injury. However, Singletary may be setting the stage for a Rachal benching by being vague about the starting position at center when Heitmann returns.

It would be strikingly odd to bench a team captain...someone you selected for that role only a couple weeks ago, post-injury. And, it would be odd for Raye, since he called Heitmann the second QB for the team only a few weeks ago, to abandon that premise. We will see how it plays out.

P.S. I think it very odd that many fans downplay Baas' mistake in the Saints game. He singlehandedly gave the Saints 2 points from his snap, and that led to a short field (punt defense is much more difficult when you don't have two gunner running down the field at the snap) and the early touchdown. I wouldn't put the full 9 point lead solely on Baas, but he put the team in a substantial hole to begin the game.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Having another guy who can play C and OG isn't a bad thing...some of the younger fans in this forum may not remember he was drafted as an OG and played there his first few seasons. The thing Baas has over Eric is he's a tougher blocker...he strengthens the interior OL, which was a problem last year. As for Rachal...I'm on the fencepost with him. What I know is Snyder played well there Monday night...but, of course his biggest value is he can play anywhere on the OL save C.

I haven't seen any indication this year that Baas is opening holes in the middle of the LOS, which is what Team Baas claimed would happen the moment he started in Game One. Instead, the yards are coming from off-tackle runs where guards are pulling, and over Iupati and Staley. The Seahawks completely dominated the middle of the LOS, and the Niners almost completely abandoned running up the gut after the first two series against the Saints, since it was ineffective.

Baas' strength so far (at least in the Saints game) has been a surprise to me. Along with Smith, he did a solid job of blitz pick-up. Now, having home field advantage is huge, and that may have played a huge role. I doubt the accomodations at Arrowhead will be as kind, and we may see a struggle once again. But, I have to hand it to him in this one area in the Saints game.

In the end, Heitmann is still the better center, and that will play itself out when he returns from injury. However, Singletary may be setting the stage for a Rachal benching by being vague about the starting position at center when Heitmann returns.

It would be strikingly odd to bench a team captain...someone you selected for that role only a couple weeks ago, post-injury. And, it would be odd for Raye, since he called Heitmann the second QB for the team only a few weeks ago, to abandon that premise. We will see how it plays out.

P.S. I think it very odd that many fans downplay Baas' mistake in the Saints game. He singlehandedly gave the Saints 2 points from his snap, and that led to a short field (punt defense is much more difficult when you don't have two gunner running down the field at the snap) and the early touchdown. I wouldn't put the full 9 point lead solely on Baas, but he put the team in a substantial hole to begin the game.

Good post MadDog I didn't even think of it like that about the 9 points but your right about benching a quality player like Heitman I think Chilo is odd man out.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by WestCoast:
interesting...maybe someone should show sing the ball getting snapped 50 ft. over smith's head.

1 play...

One play that cost us 2 points and gave the Saints good field position on the safety punt, of which the Saints scored a TD on. That bad snapped led to a chain of events that put us quickly down 9-0.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Having another guy who can play C and OG isn't a bad thing...some of the younger fans in this forum may not remember he was drafted as an OG and played there his first few seasons. The thing Baas has over Eric is he's a tougher blocker...he strengthens the interior OL, which was a problem last year. As for Rachal...I'm on the fencepost with him. What I know is Snyder played well there Monday night...but, of course his biggest value is he can play anywhere on the OL save C.

I haven't seen any indication this year that Baas is opening holes in the middle of the LOS, which is what Team Baas claimed would happen the moment he started in Game One. Instead, the yards are coming from off-tackle runs where guards are pulling, and over Iupati and Staley. The Seahawks completely dominated the middle of the LOS, and the Niners almost completely abandoned running up the gut after the first two series against the Saints, since it was ineffective.

Baas' strength so far (at least in the Saints game) has been a surprise to me. Along with Smith, he did a solid job of blitz pick-up. Now, having home field advantage is huge, and that may have played a huge role. I doubt the accomodations at Arrowhead will be as kind, and we may see a struggle once again. But, I have to hand it to him in this one area in the Saints game.

In the end, Heitmann is still the better center, and that will play itself out when he returns from injury. However, Singletary may be setting the stage for a Rachal benching by being vague about the starting position at center when Heitmann returns.

It would be strikingly odd to bench a team captain...someone you selected for that role only a couple weeks ago, post-injury. And, it would be odd for Raye, since he called Heitmann the second QB for the team only a few weeks ago, to abandon that premise. We will see how it plays out.

P.S. I think it very odd that many fans downplay Baas' mistake in the Saints game. He singlehandedly gave the Saints 2 points from his snap, and that led to a short field (punt defense is much more difficult when you don't have two gunner running down the field at the snap) and the early touchdown. I wouldn't put the full 9 point lead solely on Baas, but he put the team in a substantial hole to begin the game.

The Center's primary job isn't to open huge holes, however, is NOT supposed to be getting pushed back which is the difference between Baas and Heitmann. Also, Baas did a very good job pulling Monday night.

I can't exactly pinpoint what happened to the entire OL in the SEA game but if I had to put money on it, I would bet it had a little to do with getting to the LOS with no time to make adjustment calls on top of the fact that SEA was most likely informed of some familiarities in our offense's verbiage by Robinson.

You also seem to ignore one HUGE stat Monday Night: 0 Sacks. In fact, ample time for Alex to throw. You did mention blitz pickup and how well he did. So, what happened to Baas last year with pass blocking?

Fact is, he has been playing much better than Heitmann from the moment he became our starting Center.

Heitmann is still good, which is why he may get that RG spot.

It will be interesting to see how the oline functions in Arrowhead. If they have actually learned things from the New Orleans game and can carry that to Arrowhead we should see some good running. So play calling quality, play calling efficency, timing, noise level, run blocking, and pass blocking will be big issues this week. If the oline plays well then Gore should be playing well. IF oline and Gore are well, then Smith will have play action to work with and then if everyone catches what is thrown to them then we should get to 35 points and win the game. But I do want to see oline development, and I want to see the offense play consistently and effectively.

I would like 35 points from the offense, 14 points from the defense and win 49 to 3.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Having another guy who can play C and OG isn't a bad thing...some of the younger fans in this forum may not remember he was drafted as an OG and played there his first few seasons. The thing Baas has over Eric is he's a tougher blocker...he strengthens the interior OL, which was a problem last year. As for Rachal...I'm on the fencepost with him. What I know is Snyder played well there Monday night...but, of course his biggest value is he can play anywhere on the OL save C.

I haven't seen any indication this year that Baas is opening holes in the middle of the LOS, which is what Team Baas claimed would happen the moment he started in Game One. Instead, the yards are coming from off-tackle runs where guards are pulling, and over Iupati and Staley. The Seahawks completely dominated the middle of the LOS, and the Niners almost completely abandoned running up the gut after the first two series against the Saints, since it was ineffective.

Baas' strength so far (at least in the Saints game) has been a surprise to me. Along with Smith, he did a solid job of blitz pick-up. Now, having home field advantage is huge, and that may have played a huge role. I doubt the accomodations at Arrowhead will be as kind, and we may see a struggle once again. But, I have to hand it to him in this one area in the Saints game.

In the end, Heitmann is still the better center, and that will play itself out when he returns from injury. However, Singletary may be setting the stage for a Rachal benching by being vague about the starting position at center when Heitmann returns.

It would be strikingly odd to bench a team captain...someone you selected for that role only a couple weeks ago, post-injury. And, it would be odd for Raye, since he called Heitmann the second QB for the team only a few weeks ago, to abandon that premise. We will see how it plays out.

P.S. I think it very odd that many fans downplay Baas' mistake in the Saints game. He singlehandedly gave the Saints 2 points from his snap, and that led to a short field (punt defense is much more difficult when you don't have two gunner running down the field at the snap) and the early touchdown. I wouldn't put the full 9 point lead solely on Baas, but he put the team in a substantial hole to begin the game.

Really?? I am pretty sure Baas was the one blocking Vilma backward and opening up a hole on Gore's TD in the 4th quarter. I guess I imagined that.

Originally posted by btwagner:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Hell except for 1 bad snap Baas has played really well at center. He's a more natural C than Guard. He brings more bulk, size and strength to the position and he's been driving people off the ball and he's been a brick wall in the passing game. I don't have any problems with his game.

As for Rachal getting his starting job back... We should keep him out.

Also I a remember seeing him pulling pulling and getting out in front of gore I believe on the screen. Maybe one or 2 other plays as well. He moves better than Heitmann as well....question I have is do they keep wragge when heitmann returns....or do they waive him and pick up another ILB

Going by Sings comments it appears that Baas will likely remain the starter with Heitmann becoming backup at G, C.....Rachal also appears to be returning to starting role according to sing which would allow Snyder to backup at both G spots...Wraagge seems expendable.....

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Having another guy who can play C and OG isn't a bad thing...some of the younger fans in this forum may not remember he was drafted as an OG and played there his first few seasons. The thing Baas has over Eric is he's a tougher blocker...he strengthens the interior OL, which was a problem last year. As for Rachal...I'm on the fencepost with him. What I know is Snyder played well there Monday night...but, of course his biggest value is he can play anywhere on the OL save C.

I haven't seen any indication this year that Baas is opening holes in the middle of the LOS, which is what Team Baas claimed would happen the moment he started in Game One. Instead, the yards are coming from off-tackle runs where guards are pulling, and over Iupati and Staley. The Seahawks completely dominated the middle of the LOS, and the Niners almost completely abandoned running up the gut after the first two series against the Saints, since it was ineffective.

Baas' strength so far (at least in the Saints game) has been a surprise to me. Along with Smith, he did a solid job of blitz pick-up. Now, having home field advantage is huge, and that may have played a huge role. I doubt the accomodations at Arrowhead will be as kind, and we may see a struggle once again. But, I have to hand it to him in this one area in the Saints game.

In the end, Heitmann is still the better center, and that will play itself out when he returns from injury. However, Singletary may be setting the stage for a Rachal benching by being vague about the starting position at center when Heitmann returns.

It would be strikingly odd to bench a team captain...someone you selected for that role only a couple weeks ago, post-injury. And, it would be odd for Raye, since he called Heitmann the second QB for the team only a few weeks ago, to abandon that premise. We will see how it plays out.

P.S. I think it very odd that many fans downplay Baas' mistake in the Saints game. He singlehandedly gave the Saints 2 points from his snap, and that led to a short field (punt defense is much more difficult when you don't have two gunner running down the field at the snap) and the early touchdown. I wouldn't put the full 9 point lead solely on Baas, but he put the team in a substantial hole to begin the game.

Really?? I am pretty sure Baas was the one blocking Vilma backward and opening up a hole on Gore's TD in the 4th quarter. I guess I imagined that.

Before I make a judgement as to who should be starting, I want to see Baas, Heitmann and Rachal playing in the same environment, ie., more appropriate line splits, more varied play selection and design and plays getting in with enough time to allow the line to be certain of their individual responsibilities. Baas surprised me Monday night although I did not see him as the rolling bull that some saw. He was just average in his blocking but did seem to have everyone on the same page on assignments but I see that more the result of coaching than his own talent.

For that reason I believe Rachal will continue to start at RG. If the coaches continue to do their job and Rachal performs up to expectations based on the PS he had, then he stays. When Heitmann is ready, the staff will have to make a similar evaluation there. Personally, I don't see the team keeping both Baas and Heitmann next year. Baas will have to perform at a much higher level between now and the time Heitmann is healthy enough to play if he is to keep his spot on the roster.

I think another factor that favors Baas is his age...not just his years old, but in terms of relative time on the OL. He hasn't been banged up over multiple seasons like Heitmann has. I don't really care who starts...both are capable. But, I do see Singletary plugging in either Snyder or Heitmann at RG if Rachal doesn't step up his game considerably.

I wonder how healthy Heitmann is? I'd love it if Baas can have another good game this week. Then move Heitmann to RG.

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by DrofThuganomics:
Heitmann is probably the most consistent big guy on our line.

Consistently pushed around you mean.

Look, I like Heitmann, but there is a reason that Defensive players were able to submarine the ball carriers in the Backfield.

If Baas continues to play well then Heitmann is the odd man out and the backup to Baas.

If this Line continues to be stingy with the Sacks FOGEDDABOUDIT.

Yaay he's the most cereberal Center in the league. Big whoop if he can't get Push and gets stood up on every Run play. And he does. I still think that he could be a factor for us at Guard.

But Rachal doesn't perform too bad(the Opposing D got around Davis because the inexperience of Chilo) and Snyder was a wall for most of the Saints game. It's going to be uphill for Eric. And really, shouldn't it be? We want the best guys out there. He'll get his chances to prove that he's at least worthy of getting back onto the field at the RG position. We should be happy that our Line is starting to gel. Instead people are trashing players because "they aren't as good". Well excuse me for saying this but ZERO F@KIN SACKS says a lot. Especially when they do it against the Saints opportunistic Defense. Anybody remember the last time the Line gave up ZERO Sacks? I don't.

~Ceadder

I just don't understand all the Heitmann hate, he brings extremely valuable experience to an O-line that desperately lacks it.

Originally posted by DrofThuganomics:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by DrofThuganomics:
Heitmann is probably the most consistent big guy on our line.

Consistently pushed around you mean.

Look, I like Heitmann, but there is a reason that Defensive players were able to submarine the ball carriers in the Backfield.

If Baas continues to play well then Heitmann is the odd man out and the backup to Baas.

If this Line continues to be stingy with the Sacks FOGEDDABOUDIT.

Yaay he's the most cereberal Center in the league. Big whoop if he can't get Push and gets stood up on every Run play. And he does. I still think that he could be a factor for us at Guard.

But Rachal doesn't perform too bad(the Opposing D got around Davis because the inexperience of Chilo) and Snyder was a wall for most of the Saints game. It's going to be uphill for Eric. And really, shouldn't it be? We want the best guys out there. He'll get his chances to prove that he's at least worthy of getting back onto the field at the RG position. We should be happy that our Line is starting to gel. Instead people are trashing players because "they aren't as good". Well excuse me for saying this but ZERO F@KIN SACKS says a lot. Especially when they do it against the Saints opportunistic Defense. Anybody remember the last time the Line gave up ZERO Sacks? I don't.

~Ceadder

I just don't understand all the Heitmann hate, he brings extremely valuable experience to an O-line that desperately lacks it.

No hate, some just feel he isn't the best option at Center and could possibly upgrade the OL if moved to RG.

At one time, D. Smith brought extremely valuable experience to LB but that didn't always make him the best option.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
I think another factor that favors Baas is his age...not just his years old, but in terms of relative time on the OL. He hasn't been banged up over multiple seasons like Heitmann has. I don't really care who starts...both are capable. But, I do see Singletary plugging in either Snyder or Heitmann at RG if Rachal doesn't step up his game considerably.

I understand your point but center is a position that does not put as much stress on a player as does guard or tackle. Centers commonly have longer productive careers than guards. Also the responsibility of adjusting blocking assignments favors a more experienced player over someone with less experience. Both of those factors puts Heitmann in position at center.

If Rachal comes back and plays as he did in the last half of last season, then there is no place for either Baas or Heitmann at guard. The fact Singletary had little hesitation in installing Iupati as the starting guard over Baas and leaving Rachal at RG should tell everyone that the staff clearly sees Rachal as both the short and long-term answer at guard. That option should not be in discussion.

All of that leaves us with the original question of whether or not Heitmann re-gains the starter role when he is again healthy or if Baas stays. From my observation, I have not seen Baas do enough to consider him starting ahead of Heitmann. I have watched Baas very carefully through these first two games and he is not the clear choice.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
I think another factor that favors Baas is his age...not just his years old, but in terms of relative time on the OL. He hasn't been banged up over multiple seasons like Heitmann has. I don't really care who starts...both are capable. But, I do see Singletary plugging in either Snyder or Heitmann at RG if Rachal doesn't step up his game considerably.

I understand your point but center is a position that does not put as much stress on a player as does guard or tackle. Centers commonly have longer productive careers than guards. Also the responsibility of adjusting blocking assignments favors a more experienced player over someone with less experience. Both of those factors puts Heitmann in position at center.

If Rachal comes back and plays as he did in the last half of last season, then there is no place for either Baas or Heitmann at guard. The fact Singletary had little hesitation in installing Iupati as the starting guard over Baas and leaving Rachal at RG should tell everyone that the staff clearly sees Rachal as both the short and long-term answer at guard. That option should not be in discussion.

All of that leaves us with the original question of whether or not Heitmann re-gains the starter role when he is again healthy or if Baas stays. From my observation, I have not seen Baas do enough to consider him starting ahead of Heitmann. I have watched Baas very carefully through these first two games and he is not the clear choice.

I disagree. The only reason he beat out Baas and not Chilo, was because Singletary didn't want two rookies starting at RG and RT, side by side.