man blocking scheme versus zone blocking

All during the pre-season, the 49er OL was able to put their big guys on the opposing DL and push them around. Everyone got excited because it looked like Singletary finally had the offensive line that could "impose their will" on the opponent.

Then today comes along and the smaller, quicker Seattle 4-man DL just owned the 49ers all day long. While the 49ers were charging out aggressively to get to their blocks, Seattle was using their momentum to push them aside or run by them to get to the ball carrier or the QB. On running plays the Seahawks would line up directly in front of an OL and then quickly slant into the gaps and stuff the play before the bigger, slower SF linemen could adjust. It happened time after time. Why?

It comes down to a matter of philosophy. Singletary wants guys that can take on a defensive lineman one-on-one nutcracker style and win. That is fine as long as the defense goes along with you. However, when they start to slant and use their quickness instead of just brute strength, it doesn't work so well. It is cool macho man stuff but it has its limitations.

Good running teams usually employ a zone blocking scheme where each lineman is responsible for an area, not a specific man. As a result, if the DL slants, the offensive blockers just slide with them and take them out of the play. You are far less prone to be victimized on blitzes and have more flexibility in creating an open zone to run in.

Today, even the macho man stuff was not working. Baas was owned most of the day because he wasn't quick enough to react to Mebane. His strength meant nothing because he wasn't using it well. Iupati held his own fairly well but over-committed far too often allowing space for the defender to penetrate between him and Baas on several occasions.

Man blocking just doesn't account for all the variations a good defense can throw at you. The same thing happened last season for the same reason. If you want to have a good offense, you have to fool some of the people at least some of the time. You can't rely on macho man all the time. Coaches must use strategy to help players make plays. The blocking scheme the 49ers are using is a big part of the reason they didn't run today...and you can bet New Orleans with their quick, fast DL will bring the same packages next week that Seattle brought today.

[ Edited by dj43 on Sep 12, 2010 at 22:32:59 ]

zone blocking are for pussies. singletary rather not win than win with finesse plays. its a matter of principle.

Even if you are right wouldn't it take an off season to switch? One problem I have is we tend to do a lot of pulling and many times it just ends up clogging up the middle even worse. I think for now we just have to be more creative with the runs and use the deep passes to back them off. Play action as well....

Raye wouldn't know the difference

great thread. 99% of nt needs to realize this. quit b*tching about the players because if we dont have a competent coaching staff its all in vain.

give this coaching staff the saints roster theyll still be horrible.

Playcalling was so extraordinarily predictable. As said in an earlier Webzone article, You, me, my girlfriend's chihuahua, the Taliban, and Ray Charles all knew that the first play Jimmy Raye would call was a (in Madden terms) I-Form HB Dive. If anyone watched the Texans beat the Colts today, they ran a TON of I-Form Zone Block Left or Zone Block Right. For a team built like ours, it a much better way of running and I'm baffled as to why we are still doing so much Man Blocking. We have maulers on our O-Line, we shouldn't be handicapping them. I think the Heitmann injury is also making a much bigger impact that most of us anticipated

Originally posted by Multibomber:
Playcalling was so extraordinarily predictable. As said in an earlier Webzone article, You, me, my girlfriend's chihuahua, the Taliban, and Ray Charles all knew that the first play Jimmy Raye would call was a (in Madden terms) I-Form HB Dive. If anyone watched the Texans beat the Colts today, they ran a TON of I-Form Zone Block Left or Zone Block Right. For a team built like ours, it a much better way of running and I'm baffled as to why we are still doing so much Man Blocking. We have maulers on our O-Line, we shouldn't be handicapping them. I think the Heitmann injury is also making a much bigger impact that most of us anticipated

lol

Originally posted by Gore_21:
Even if you are right wouldn't it take an off season to switch? One problem I have is we tend to do a lot of pulling and many times it just ends up clogging up the middle even worse. I think for now we just have to be more creative with the runs and use the deep passes to back them off. Play action as well....

Actually zone blocking is easier to learn than man. In man, you constantly have to be looking to see where switches are being made and adjust. With zone, you just clear your area, and if you don't have someone in your area, you slide to protect the side the play is being run toward.

That doesn't answer your question, but I don't know how much time it might take with this personnel group. I know that it would be easier if Heitmann were healthy as he has had much more experience than Baas. Baas' lack of experience appeared to cause some problems yesterday. (I won't go into those because it is irrelevant to the issue of scheme.) What I do know is that teams like Mike Shanahan's Bronco teams produced multiple 1,000 yard rushers despite multiple changes in OL personnel. It was all about scheme with Shanahan. He consistently gave his players a chance to succeed because he did require EVERYONE to execute at a high level in order for the play to succeed. He learned early from Bill Walsh that "sucker blocks," fooling a defender into taking himself out of the play without having to be accounted for by a man, were every bit as effective as a pancake block. Unfortunately, the current scheme does not employ "sucker blocks."

Quote:
Additionally, Seattle slanted their defensive linemen on run plays and they seemed to always slant right into where the 49ers were running. Seattle knew when and where to slant.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?entry_id=72138#ixzz0zQFsz2Hq

Originally posted by NinerGM:
You've summed up a bigger issue in my opinion with this observation: we don't have someone on this team that's an strategist, a real x and o's type of guy for TODAY'S game. There's a reason Jimmy Raye wasn't retained in all the places he was set as OC. One can be "respected" in the league but I think results are fare more important (did someone say Jerry Sullivan?). I know he like Raye because he believes in a certain philosophy, but wouldn't you much rather have someone who's productive? Someone who's an innovator? Carroll is an X and Os guy - he did that with the 49ers D when he was the coordinator here a while ago. There were no adjustments made by the OL to counter. Why? Because the 49ers coaching braintrust may be effective at the positions, but over offensive scheme/strategy is severely lacking.

As we play better coached teams this will become more evident. It's not the talent (well somewhat at QB). It's no longer the "new scheme". There are no more excuses for Singletary and Raye. Sing need to hold his coaches accountable just as much as his team.

This is a copycat league so until we burn a defense with a major adjustment, we'll see it again and again. My problem is I have very little faith a significant change will come. Sing will tell Raye to get Moran Norris and Alex Smith to work on passes and patterns.

I'm with you homie in other words we just have poor coaching and a poor front office minus whoever is putting together contract extensions. We have to question who is evaluating the team talent and decided not to upgrade the CB and pass rush positions. We basically said the team is good to go just get the qb right. But there are other problems with this team. The offensive scheme is just bad. Two tight end sets with no speed at WR isn't gonna work. They can put 8 in the box and Morgan and Crabtree can't run past anybody. And teams aren't gonna let Vd just run down the seam and catch passes all year mix it up give him more routes to run.

Originally posted by znk916:

Quote:
Additionally, Seattle slanted their defensive linemen on run plays and they seemed to always slant right into where the 49ers were running. Seattle knew when and where to slant.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?entry_id=72138#ixzz0zQFsz2Hq

That is what I saw, and it is all about the fact that a man blocking scheme tips the defense to the play direction as soon as the ball is snapped. It also speaks to how predictable the running game is overall.