Possibility of holding onto our stars.

Granted i don't know too much about the economic part of football, it seems that the NFL is a "circle of life" kinda league, where sonner or later everyone has the chance to go down and up. Espescially due to salary cap issues (and draft positions..).

If this season does go real well and our forcasted stars play to the hype.. will it be possible to hold onto them? It seems like the list is long.. If we can't hold onto them, where and who would you sacrifice?

Willis, Gore, V. Davis, Iupati and A. Davis (in a couple years), Crabtree, A. Smith, J. Smith (??..please non smith thread..i beg all of you), Franklin, Staley, even Brooks, Mays if they turn out good. ALL of these guys could ask for big bucks..

We ARE an 8-8 team till proven otherwise, but if things do turn out.. can our budget hold onto them?

Paraag will make it work

Seriously though, I don't think that it will be a problem unless some people demand outrageous money for mediocre pay - like maybe Goldson.

We've already extended Staley and Willis so I'm not sure why they're on your list. Nor do we have to worry about Iupati, A. Davis Mays or Crabtree for about another 4 or 5 years.

In summary, there's too many variables and you're looking too far into the future.

-9fA

There's no chance (even with our foreboding success in the NFC WEST) we'll be able to retain/compliment all of our talent for a long time... but if we can continue to scout/develop future players the way we have with our con-current crew there's a good chance things will sort themselves out (in jest).

-I could care less about losing Goldson, what would scare the s**t OUT OF ME right now would be losing somebody like 'DC' Greg Manusky (to a head-coaching stint in possibly 2 years), or valuable position coaches like Jim Tomsula.

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
There's no chance (even with our foreboding success in the NFC WEST) we'll be able to retain/compliment all of our talent for a long time... but if we can continue to scout/develop future players the way we have with our con-current crew there's a good chance things will sort themselves out (in jest).

-I could care less about losing Goldson, what would scare the s**t OUT OF ME right now would be losing somebody like 'DC' Greg Manusky (to a head-coaching stint in possibly 2 years), or valuable position coaches like Jim Tomsula.

Agree

Originally posted by tondiman:
Granted i don't know too much about the economic part of football, it seems that the NFL is a "circle of life" kinda league, where sonner or later everyone has the chance to go down and up. Espescially due to salary cap issues (and draft positions..).

If this season does go real well and our forcasted stars play to the hype.. will it be possible to hold onto them? It seems like the list is long.. If we can't hold onto them, where and who would you sacrifice?

Willis, Gore, V. Davis, Iupati and A. Davis (in a couple years), Crabtree, A. Smith, J. Smith (??..please non smith thread..i beg all of you), Franklin, Staley, even Brooks, Mays if they turn out good. ALL of these guys could ask for big bucks..

We ARE an 8-8 team till proven otherwise, but if things do turn out.. can our budget hold onto them?

Already Signed longterm: Willis, Iupati, A. Davis, Crabtree, J Smith, Staley, Mays.
Will Resign: V Davis.

In my opinion Brooks can walk. He doesn't have much value outside of the 49ers. A. Smith should be resigned only if we win the division and play well. If we win the division at 8-8 he is gone too.
Goldson would be nice to keep but he'll ask for the big bucks when he will just fizzle out with another team.

I don't see Goldson sticking around.

Agreed about Manusky being a big worry.

In order:

1) Vernon Davis (FA)
2) Manusky (most likely hc candidate)
3) Goldson (FA)
4) Clements (restructuring or gone)
5) Franklin (FA)
6) Lawson (FA)
7) Baas (FA)
8) Lewis (essentially FA)

I think we need to be prepared to hold onto no less than two and no more than four of these guys.

Did I forget anyone?

Edit: for the record, I left Alex Smith off the list because there's too much disagreement about him and too many unknowns. It's impossible to rank him. If we get to the second round of the playoffs and he plays well he's obviously coming back. If he tanks he's obviously not. It just not worth it to factor him in right now.

Originally posted by Youngone:

Originally posted by tondiman:
Granted i don't know too much about the economic part of football, it seems that the NFL is a "circle of life" kinda league, where sonner or later everyone has the chance to go down and up. Espescially due to salary cap issues (and draft positions..).

If this season does go real well and our forcasted stars play to the hype.. will it be possible to hold onto them? It seems like the list is long.. If we can't hold onto them, where and who would you sacrifice?

Willis, Gore, V. Davis, Iupati and A. Davis (in a couple years), Crabtree, A. Smith, J. Smith (??..please non smith thread..i beg all of you), Franklin, Staley, even Brooks, Mays if they turn out good. ALL of these guys could ask for big bucks..

We ARE an 8-8 team till proven otherwise, but if things do turn out.. can our budget hold onto them?

Already Signed longterm: Willis, Iupati, A. Davis, Crabtree, J Smith, Staley, Mays.
Will Resign: V Davis.

In my opinion Brooks can walk. He doesn't have much value outside of the 49ers. A. Smith should be resigned only if we win the division and play well. If we win the division at 8-8 he is gone too.
Goldson would be nice to keep but he'll ask for the big bucks when he will just fizzle out with another team.

I think Mays' development will be the key for any negotiations regarding the safeties. It looks clear that Lewis is on his way out. So that leave Taylor, Smith, Goldson, Mays. If Goldson tries to place too high of a price on his head then Mays will take his place due to finances and skill and speed. So the safeties will be in good shape. This will lead to a middle to low end draft pick unless a top safety slides to us.

CBs will be interesting. I think Clements is on his way out. That leaves Brown, Adams, Spencer, Paymah. I think we will go for a CB draft this next year. I don't know if Baalke is afraid of CBs in the draft like Mc was. So that will be an interesting scenario.

The great need for our draft picks will be another Oline pick for center or guard depending upon how the Baas/Rachal scenario works out. And the other side of the fence will be we need to get another Dline pick like Houston from Oakland. J. Smith is getting older and will need a replacement and we need one to push Sop as well.

So our draft needs will be CB, CB, Safety, Center/Guard, Dline, Dline. If A. Smith turns out well then we can resign him and continue to work out Davis or get another QB pick. Backfield speed is our top priority.

Our linebackers will play themselves out. If LaBoy turns out well and stays healthy we will have our pass rusher. If Brooks and Briggs develop then we don't have to pay Lawson, and hopefully Haroldson is on his way out. We could always use another inside linebacker to replace Wilhelm but we are in pretty good shape at LB. But this will be a BPA pick.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Agreed about Manusky being a big worry.

In order:

1) Vernon Davis (FA)
2) Manusky (most likely hc candidate)
3) Goldson (FA)
4) Clements (restructuring or gone)
5) Franklin (FA)
6) Lawson (FA)
7) Baas (FA)
8) Lewis (essentially FA)

I think we need to be prepared to hold onto no less than two and no more than four of these guys.

Did I forget anyone?

Edit: for the record, I left Alex Smith off the list because there's too much disagreement about him and too many unknowns. It's impossible to rank him. If we get to the second round of the playoffs and he plays well he's obviously coming back. If he tanks he's obviously not. It just not worth it to factor him in right now.

agreed.....

must
manusky
davis

maybe
bass(based on his play so far and an assumption of him continueing to get better)
franklin(as long as his price doesn't get outrageous)

everyone else on the list can go

the only ones to worry about right now IMO are Goldson, Manny and Franklin.

Im optumistic we will get a deal done with Vernon in the next few months, and Alex will follow.

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
the only ones to worry about right now IMO are Goldson, Manny and Franklin.

Im optumistic we will get a deal done with Vernon in the next few months, and Alex will follow.

I continue to feel that Manny is the one we won't be able to keep. VD and Franklin have the same agent, so if we work things out with one, things should fall into place for the other. We've done plenty of deals with Goldson's agent Rosenhaus over the years. Manny's agent Jon Feinsod is part of the Revis holdout at the moment.....Vincent Jackson too I believe

Originally posted by Ninefan56:

Originally posted by Youngone:

Originally posted by tondiman:
Granted i don't know too much about the economic part of football, it seems that the NFL is a "circle of life" kinda league, where sonner or later everyone has the chance to go down and up. Espescially due to salary cap issues (and draft positions..).

If this season does go real well and our forcasted stars play to the hype.. will it be possible to hold onto them? It seems like the list is long.. If we can't hold onto them, where and who would you sacrifice?

Willis, Gore, V. Davis, Iupati and A. Davis (in a couple years), Crabtree, A. Smith, J. Smith (??..please non smith thread..i beg all of you), Franklin, Staley, even Brooks, Mays if they turn out good. ALL of these guys could ask for big bucks..

We ARE an 8-8 team till proven otherwise, but if things do turn out.. can our budget hold onto them?

Already Signed longterm: Willis, Iupati, A. Davis, Crabtree, J Smith, Staley, Mays.
Will Resign: V Davis.

In my opinion Brooks can walk. He doesn't have much value outside of the 49ers. A. Smith should be resigned only if we win the division and play well. If we win the division at 8-8 he is gone too.
Goldson would be nice to keep but he'll ask for the big bucks when he will just fizzle out with another team.

I think Mays' development will be the key for any negotiations regarding the safeties. It looks clear that Lewis is on his way out. So that leave Taylor, Smith, Goldson, Mays. If Goldson tries to place too high of a price on his head then Mays will take his place due to finances and skill and speed. So the safeties will be in good shape. This will lead to a middle to low end draft pick unless a top safety slides to us.

CBs will be interesting. I think Clements is on his way out. That leaves Brown, Adams, Spencer, Paymah. I think we will go for a CB draft this next year. I don't know if Baalke is afraid of CBs in the draft like Mc was. So that will be an interesting scenario.

The great need for our draft picks will be another Oline pick for center or guard depending upon how the Baas/Rachal scenario works out. And the other side of the fence will be we need to get another Dline pick like Houston from Oakland. J. Smith is getting older and will need a replacement and we need one to push Sop as well.

So our draft needs will be CB, CB, Safety, Center/Guard, Dline, Dline. If A. Smith turns out well then we can resign him and continue to work out Davis or get another QB pick. Backfield speed is our top priority.

Our linebackers will play themselves out. If LaBoy turns out well and stays healthy we will have our pass rusher. If Brooks and Briggs develop then we don't have to pay Lawson, and hopefully Haroldson is on his way out. We could always use another inside linebacker to replace Wilhelm but we are in pretty good shape at LB. But this will be a BPA pick.

Nice

Agreed that the must keeps are VD and Manusky, IMO we can salvage with losing Goldson, Manny and Franklin, but I think we may be able to keep one of those due to a drop off in their play this year.

Lets not forgot Goldson was good last year but his performance against the Cards in game #2 (against the cards) is what elevated his ego and demands. If he has more performances like that then great, that means we probly win the game. But those are outliers and if he proves to just be a consistently good safety without any spectacular games, his demands might become a bit more reasonable, and not stupid Rolle money.

Manny, I don't know why we just don't meet him halfway. I think he has a good head on his shoulders and we could keep him for average LB money. Cut Haralson next year and give Manny the rest of Parys's salary, extending Parys was one of the biggest over-reactions by this franchise in a long time. (and another reason McClueless is gone)

Clements will probably restructure for a one year low salary deal similar to Lewis this year. He has to know his skills aren't what they once were, and if he continues to get exposed against speed WR's he would have no choice but to be restructured or cut.

to be honest ive been thinking about this all night.

We can extend VD now and get say 10M out of the way, he is already making 8M, so cut his salary from say 8MM base to say 5M, and have him make 15M this yr, with the 12M left for his projected bonus money divided this way, 5M in 2011, and the 7M left over 4 years.

VD would be a 5yr or 6yr deal worth around 40M

Re-Sign McDonald this yr, for say a 4yr/8M deal.

Then in 2011, give Alex say 6.5M in yr 1, 7.5M in yr 2 and 8.5M in yr 3, thats a 3yr/$22.5M deal, plus incentives to make the deal worth 28M max.

Then Tag either Goldson, Manny or Franklin if needed.

Then we say hey Nate Clements, restrutcure or be released, if we restructure i can see us saving around 5M. If not we save about 4M by cutting him, and then his entire salary in 2012.

Thats my plan. Ill have Davis and Iupati's mock deals that i can think of how there structured later this coming week.

I think Davis probably got a 2.5M Roster Bonus, with a 5.5M option bonus in 2011, then the rest of the 15.954M, which would be a 6.954M Signing Bonus. which is 1.390.800M from 2010-2014

As for Iupatim, maybe a 1M Roster in 2010, 2.5M Option in 2011, and the rest of the 10.8M in a Signing Bonus which would be 7.3M. which is 1.46M from 2010-2014

ok, mocked up the 1st 2 yrs for both.

Davis:

4.890.800M for 2010
9.390.800M for 2011

Iupati:

3.31M for 2010
5.21M for 2011