Singletary's Strange Approach To The Return Game

Originally posted by 49erfanatic:
I honestly don't understand what Singletary is thinking when it comes to choosing our punt and kickoff returners. We got three guys in the offseason to compete for the job, and then he doesn't use any of them in the pre-season game. Phil Barber had a good article on this yesterday. Punt returners and kick returners need game reps to get ready for the regular season. So why is Guillory (a guy who has almost no chance of making the team) taking all the punt and kickoff returns? His performance on punts reminded me of last year's nightmare, and this team can't afford to have that lack of production again. Ginn, Williams and Vann were signed to compete for return duties. Obviously Williams is hurt, but why cut Vann (the all time leading kick returner in college) before you even give him a chance in a pre-season game? And Ginn was quoted as saying that he needs reps to feel prepared. What really bothers me is Singletary's comments about Guillory's performance. He said he thought the kid did "pretty decent". That was pretty decent? You've got to be kidding me? I only hope that he stops playing this game of musical chairs with the returners, and gets more decisive about selecting someone who has the skills to do the job. You're asking for trouble to stick someone in there catching punts in the regular season if they haven't been doing it in pre-season games.

I can see what Singletary likes about the kid. He looked pretty good AFTER the catch on a couple of returns. He didn't dance around or look like he was just trying to avoid getting hit, he ran upfield and got some yards.

Singletary is giving him every chance to prove if he can do it or not. I just wish Vann had that kind of opportunity before they cut him.

just a theory, but if Crabtree was hurt and your return guy is now your number one or two receiver and your other returner is also hurt with a toe, why would you risk Ginn to get hurt ? I think once Crabtree is back in the line up and healthy, you will see Ginn returning Kick offs.

Originally posted by bret:

Originally posted by chico49erfan:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
It does seem confusing at this point. My guess is that he was very impressed with Williams and he has already decided that is his guy. It is just a matter of getting him healthy at this point. As for Ginn, he must be worried about getting him injured.

I agree. I think Singletary already know Kyle Williams is the guy and he's just seeing if this Guillory kid can prove him wrong. Williams looked so smooth in that first game.

I think you're partially right: I believe Singletary not only believes Kyle Williams IS the man, but he also believes that Ted Ginn and Leroy Vann ARE NOT!

So he took a flyer on a guy who has shown some potential in practice (Guillory). Though he has said good things, we all saw how bad he actually looked. That's why, I think, he is auditioning players like Phillip Adams and Dominique Ziegler. If a guy who is probably going to be on the 53-man roster can handle the chores in an emergency, then a roster space can be used on another player who is on the bubble (Hill? Britt Miller? etc.)

yes, yes and yes

Maybe Singletary and the 9ers staff have seen something in Bobby Guillory in practice that he still hasnt been able to show on the field in terms of punt returns. Bobby Guillory did pretty good at kick off returns and has the highest average so they might want him sharing those with Williams during the season. They are probably just testing him on punts while Williams is out hoping that Guillory can improve. Ginn and Ziggy could probably handle some punt returns but Singletary wants them as primary WR and not risk getting them injured. That just leaves no other choice but to keep Guillory at punts and adding Jurovich and Adams to split the returns between them.

Punt returns are very difficult and the most important thing is ball security which Singletary has stressed. Vann had troubles in practice holding on to the ball that's why they cut him. I think Guillory has been securing the ball in practice better than Vann did or else they would have cut him already, its just that in a game its much harder which is why he had a couple bad plays.

My gut feeling is that Bobby Guillory will return a punt or kickoff for a TD during this preseason and it will shut up all the ppl hating on him right now. Its just a matter of time!

Originally posted by wolfman61:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
It does seem confusing at this point. My guess is that he was very impressed with Williams and he has already decided that is his guy. It is just a matter of getting him healthy at this point. As for Ginn, he must be worried about getting him injured.

this sounds reasonable

This... Sing has seen all he needs to see with Ginn and Williams to know they are front runners.

As mentioned before, it's obvious Williams is the man, now he is looking for people to handle the backup duty. Guillory does show glimpses of being a good return guy physically but he is just not mentally there, Singletary may be considering whether he is worth stashing on the PS or not.

But these last two games will be allot about who is the most reliable punt catcher, rather than returner. As he has stated before he doesn't care if the PR gets 0 yards, as long as he doesn't make stupid mistakes that cause turnovers.

Originally posted by 5280High:

.........But these last two games will be allot about who is the most reliable punt catcher, rather than returner. As he has stated before he doesn't care if the PR gets 0 yards, as long as he doesn't make stupid mistakes that cause turnovers.

100% Agree

Originally posted by El_Imperio:
Maybe Singletary and the 9ers staff have seen something in Bobby Guillory in practice that he still hasnt been able to show on the field in terms of punt returns. Bobby Guillory did pretty good at kick off returns and has the highest average so they might want him sharing those with Williams during the season. They are probably just testing him on punts while Williams is out hoping that Guillory can improve. Ginn and Ziggy could probably handle some punt returns but Singletary wants them as primary WR and not risk getting them injured. That just leaves no other choice but to keep Guillory at punts and adding Jurovich and Adams to split the returns between them.

Punt returns are very difficult and the most important thing is ball security which Singletary has stressed. Vann had troubles in practice holding on to the ball that's why they cut him. I think Guillory has been securing the ball in practice better than Vann did or else they would have cut him already, its just that in a game its much harder which is why he had a couple bad plays.

My gut feeling is that Bobby Guillory will return a punt or kickoff for a TD during this preseason and it will shut up all the ppl hating on him right now. Its just a matter of time!

I think a lot of folks lose the primary understanding of punt return.

The median yper return in the NFL was 8.5 and it looks to also represent the mean as the max y-per return for a team was 13.5 and 11.9 for #2.

So, if you want to risk losing the ball for a measly 8 or 9 yards, it ain't worth it. The primary and secondary goal for a punt returner should be to secure the ball. For the most part, if you made a team punt, then you already should have better field position considering your man secured the ball. If a team has punted from good field position, then the ball is usually a touch back most of the time anyways and room for return is a lot less. The last thing on a returner's mind should be running with it and if he has space and does something, then great.

The most important part of getting yards in special teams is on kick-off return. This aspect of the game provides the best chance for solid field position or to not lose field position if your offense needs to punt.

Let's say you move the ball to the 30 on a kick return and the offense moves it 10 more yards. Now your team punts from the 40 which usually results in the opponent getting it at their 20. You have not lost field position but they may lose it if they get held and need to punt.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by El_Imperio:
Maybe Singletary and the 9ers staff have seen something in Bobby Guillory in practice that he still hasnt been able to show on the field in terms of punt returns. Bobby Guillory did pretty good at kick off returns and has the highest average so they might want him sharing those with Williams during the season. They are probably just testing him on punts while Williams is out hoping that Guillory can improve. Ginn and Ziggy could probably handle some punt returns but Singletary wants them as primary WR and not risk getting them injured. That just leaves no other choice but to keep Guillory at punts and adding Jurovich and Adams to split the returns between them.

Punt returns are very difficult and the most important thing is ball security which Singletary has stressed. Vann had troubles in practice holding on to the ball that's why they cut him. I think Guillory has been securing the ball in practice better than Vann did or else they would have cut him already, its just that in a game its much harder which is why he had a couple bad plays.

My gut feeling is that Bobby Guillory will return a punt or kickoff for a TD during this preseason and it will shut up all the ppl hating on him right now. Its just a matter of time!

I think a lot of folks lose the primary understanding of punt return.

The median yper return in the NFL was 8.5 and it looks to also represent the mean as the max y-per return for a team was 13.5 and 11.9 for #2.

So, if you want to risk losing the ball for a measly 8 or 9 yards, it ain't worth it. The primary and secondary goal for a punt returner should be to secure the ball. For the most part, if you made a team punt, then you already should have better field position considering your man secured the ball. If a team has punted from good field position, then the ball is usually a touch back most of the time anyways and room for return is a lot less. The last thing on a returner's mind should be running with it and if he has space and does something, then great.

The most important part of getting yards in special teams is on kick-off return. This aspect of the game provides the best chance for solid field position or to not lose field position if your offense needs to punt.

Let's say you move the ball to the 30 on a kick return and the offense moves it 10 more yards. Now your team punts from the 40 which usually results in the opponent getting it at their 20. You have not lost field position but they may lose it if they get held and need to punt.

I totally agree with you that's why Singletary stressed that the most important thing was ball security and thats why I think that LeRoy Vann was cut becuase he had problems securing punts in practice. I believe Guillory will have no further problems securing the ball on punts from this point foward and maybe he's been much better in practice and they are just waiting to see the same in games. His first ever attempt was the only one that was turned over and that hasnt happend since. That's why I believe they are keeping him around to see if he improves from that.

Originally posted by El_Imperio:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by El_Imperio:
Maybe Singletary and the 9ers staff have seen something in Bobby Guillory in practice that he still hasnt been able to show on the field in terms of punt returns. Bobby Guillory did pretty good at kick off returns and has the highest average so they might want him sharing those with Williams during the season. They are probably just testing him on punts while Williams is out hoping that Guillory can improve. Ginn and Ziggy could probably handle some punt returns but Singletary wants them as primary WR and not risk getting them injured. That just leaves no other choice but to keep Guillory at punts and adding Jurovich and Adams to split the returns between them.

Punt returns are very difficult and the most important thing is ball security which Singletary has stressed. Vann had troubles in practice holding on to the ball that's why they cut him. I think Guillory has been securing the ball in practice better than Vann did or else they would have cut him already, its just that in a game its much harder which is why he had a couple bad plays.

My gut feeling is that Bobby Guillory will return a punt or kickoff for a TD during this preseason and it will shut up all the ppl hating on him right now. Its just a matter of time!

I think a lot of folks lose the primary understanding of punt return.

The median yper return in the NFL was 8.5 and it looks to also represent the mean as the max y-per return for a team was 13.5 and 11.9 for #2.

So, if you want to risk losing the ball for a measly 8 or 9 yards, it ain't worth it. The primary and secondary goal for a punt returner should be to secure the ball. For the most part, if you made a team punt, then you already should have better field position considering your man secured the ball. If a team has punted from good field position, then the ball is usually a touch back most of the time anyways and room for return is a lot less. The last thing on a returner's mind should be running with it and if he has space and does something, then great.

The most important part of getting yards in special teams is on kick-off return. This aspect of the game provides the best chance for solid field position or to not lose field position if your offense needs to punt.

Let's say you move the ball to the 30 on a kick return and the offense moves it 10 more yards. Now your team punts from the 40 which usually results in the opponent getting it at their 20. You have not lost field position but they may lose it if they get held and need to punt.

I totally agree with you that's why Singletary stressed that the most important thing was ball security and thats why I think that LeRoy Vann was cut becuase he had problems securing punts in practice. I believe Guillory will have no further problems securing the ball on punts from this point foward and maybe he's been much better in practice and they are just waiting to see the same in games. His first ever attempt was the only one that was turned over and that hasnt happend since. That's why I believe they are keeping him around to see if he improves from that.

What sucks is that his solid kick returns got overlooked in all of this Singletary mic'd up segment. He looked very smooth with little horizontal movement on those kickoff returns.

Very nice post, JoeCool.

A good punt return is one that results in your QB calling signals on the following down. To borrow, and misuse, a line from a dearly missed college coach, there are a limited number of outcomes on a punt return and most of them are bad.

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
Very nice post, JoeCool.

A good punt return is one that results in your QB calling signals on the following down. To borrow, and misuse, a line from a dearly missed college coach, there are a limited number of outcomes on a punt return and most of them are bad.

+1...

...000000

i think its williams job, hes just giving guillery a shot while williams is out and theyre trying to keep ginn from getting hurt like clements did last year. guillery didnt do too bad when he actually returned the ball, he got good yards but that catch on the 3 yard line and the muff hurt.

If a dude in a wheelchair makes it up a ramp Singletary will probably talk him up as if he could compete in the special olympics; that's just Mike being Mike.

IMHO, I really believe the coaches know who their guys are (the ones they'll keep). They probably don't want to risk anymore serious injuries and since we were awful in PR/KR last year, that's an area we can't afford anymore injuries. The best Hilary/Gilary (whatever his name is) could do is make it to practice squad... he's just a body out there for pre-sea games. However, if he does something spectacular and turns heads like the exorcist, then maybe we got something here with Hilary/Gilary.

No way we keep Guillory on the 53-man roster as PR only, no matter how well he plays in pre-season. He's barely been involved in the offense, so he's clearly not above Hill or Jones. It'd be amazingly stupid to bump a 5th safety, or a 5th OLB, or a 10th lineman, or Kyle Williams for this guy.

And while I kind of understand the argument of keeping our primary guys safe during the pre-season, this is clearly an issue that needs improvement over last year. We shouldn't be wasting reps on a PS player.