Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by lamontb:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by 49ersRednGold:
I really hope we re-sign Lawson.
Sacks is the sexy stats so when Lawson didn't get the # of sacks we thought he would, many people soured against him, but he is great against the run and in coverage. He is more of an all-around player than Brooks or Haralson.
I am hoping that next year it will be Lawson and Brooks. I feel Haralson is a liability against runs to the outside and in coverage. And he hasn't quite gotten the sacks either since his extension.
Lawson is rock solid.
Sexy? Not really when the OLB's that play on the best 3-4 defenses generally produce over 50% of the total team sacks. That's not sexy. That's production! As an OLB in the 3-4 and evidenced last year, the PRIMARY responsibility of the OLB is to generate sacks, pressures and turnovers en route to stopping the run and then infrequently dropping into "zone" coverage for short periods of time. Is it "sexy" for a QB to throw TD's? A place kicker to kick field goals? A NT to clog the middle and tie up two blockers? A WR to catch the ball? No...these are their PRIMARY responsibilities no matter how you want to justify it.
Exactly the other myth is that he's great in coverage. He's decent in coverage but folks talk about him as if he's running with wide outs. And as much as running back dump offs, screen plays, and tight ends killed the Niners last year none of the linebackers should be called great in coverage.
I could not agree more with this statement. The focus last year was on creating more turnovers, more team sacks and keeping teams out of the end zone. We did that so to build off it, we need to generate more pressure from the OLB's and contain much better on the aforementioned plays that killed us last year.
To those watching preseason so far, b/c we've been able to get a ton of pressure from Briggs and LaBoy, did that affect our run game? Not at all...remember, all of our OLB's are conveted DE's and/or ILB's...they can ALL play the run very well if given a chance. We need that special player (or two) who is gifted at getting to the QB first and foremost. We have plenty of run support with the d-line, both Spencer and Clements are great at coming up, speed with Willis, Goldson and perhaps Mays, etc. We should be very solid against the run no matter who is playing the OLB positions. We NEED this added piece if we ever want to be a top 5 defense, IMO.
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Will Manny Lawson break out in a Contract Year?
Will Manny Lawson break out in a Contract Year?
Aug 26, 2010 at 1:12 PM
- RMuTT1981
- Veteran
- Posts: 745
yeah this. And your previous analysis of lawson is spot on. The guy seals the corner super good but when you try to seal the corner and keep contain all the time your not able to commit to the fancy pass rushing moves (see the TBC spin, btfw 10 SACKS?). When Brooks comes in he goes pass first run second. The greats can figure out which to do and when and also have the physical ability. I hope Lawson gets to that next level with us that is.
Aug 26, 2010 at 1:30 PM
- 49ersRednGold
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 17,689
Originally posted by RMuTT1981:
yeah this. And your previous analysis of lawson is spot on. The guy seals the corner super good but when you try to seal the corner and keep contain all the time your not able to commit to the fancy pass rushing moves (see the TBC spin, btfw 10 SACKS?). When Brooks comes in he goes pass first run second. The greats can figure out which to do and when and also have the physical ability. I hope Lawson gets to that next level with us that is.
Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by lamontb:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by 49ersRednGold:
I really hope we re-sign Lawson.
Sacks is the sexy stats so when Lawson didn't get the # of sacks we thought he would, many people soured against him, but he is great against the run and in coverage. He is more of an all-around player than Brooks or Haralson.
I am hoping that next year it will be Lawson and Brooks. I feel Haralson is a liability against runs to the outside and in coverage. And he hasn't quite gotten the sacks either since his extension.
Lawson is rock solid.
Sexy? Not really when the OLB's that play on the best 3-4 defenses generally produce over 50% of the total team sacks. That's not sexy. That's production! As an OLB in the 3-4 and evidenced last year, the PRIMARY responsibility of the OLB is to generate sacks, pressures and turnovers en route to stopping the run and then infrequently dropping into "zone" coverage for short periods of time. Is it "sexy" for a QB to throw TD's? A place kicker to kick field goals? A NT to clog the middle and tie up two blockers? A WR to catch the ball? No...these are their PRIMARY responsibilities no matter how you want to justify it.
Exactly the other myth is that he's great in coverage. He's decent in coverage but folks talk about him as if he's running with wide outs. And as much as running back dump offs, screen plays, and tight ends killed the Niners last year none of the linebackers should be called great in coverage.
I could not agree more with this statement. The focus last year was on creating more turnovers, more team sacks and keeping teams out of the end zone. We did that so to build off it, we need to generate more pressure from the OLB's and contain much better on the aforementioned plays that killed us last year.
To those watching preseason so far, b/c we've been able to get a ton of pressure from Briggs and LaBoy, did that affect our run game? Not at all...remember, all of our OLB's are conveted DE's and/or ILB's...they can ALL play the run very well if given a chance. We need that special player (or two) who is gifted at getting to the QB first and foremost. We have plenty of run support with the d-line, both Spencer and Clements are great at coming up, speed with Willis, Goldson and perhaps Mays, etc. We should be very solid against the run no matter who is playing the OLB positions. We NEED this added piece if we ever want to be a top 5 defense, IMO.
That piece is Brooks, but I would rather have a combo of Brooks/Lawson then Brooks/Haralson. Haralson has been a bigger disappointment to me then Lawson.
Aug 26, 2010 at 1:35 PM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,331
Originally posted by 49ersRednGold:Originally posted by RMuTT1981:
yeah this. And your previous analysis of lawson is spot on. The guy seals the corner super good but when you try to seal the corner and keep contain all the time your not able to commit to the fancy pass rushing moves (see the TBC spin, btfw 10 SACKS?). When Brooks comes in he goes pass first run second. The greats can figure out which to do and when and also have the physical ability. I hope Lawson gets to that next level with us that is.
Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by lamontb:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by 49ersRednGold:
I really hope we re-sign Lawson.
Sacks is the sexy stats so when Lawson didn't get the # of sacks we thought he would, many people soured against him, but he is great against the run and in coverage. He is more of an all-around player than Brooks or Haralson.
I am hoping that next year it will be Lawson and Brooks. I feel Haralson is a liability against runs to the outside and in coverage. And he hasn't quite gotten the sacks either since his extension.
Lawson is rock solid.
Sexy? Not really when the OLB's that play on the best 3-4 defenses generally produce over 50% of the total team sacks. That's not sexy. That's production! As an OLB in the 3-4 and evidenced last year, the PRIMARY responsibility of the OLB is to generate sacks, pressures and turnovers en route to stopping the run and then infrequently dropping into "zone" coverage for short periods of time. Is it "sexy" for a QB to throw TD's? A place kicker to kick field goals? A NT to clog the middle and tie up two blockers? A WR to catch the ball? No...these are their PRIMARY responsibilities no matter how you want to justify it.
Exactly the other myth is that he's great in coverage. He's decent in coverage but folks talk about him as if he's running with wide outs. And as much as running back dump offs, screen plays, and tight ends killed the Niners last year none of the linebackers should be called great in coverage.
I could not agree more with this statement. The focus last year was on creating more turnovers, more team sacks and keeping teams out of the end zone. We did that so to build off it, we need to generate more pressure from the OLB's and contain much better on the aforementioned plays that killed us last year.
To those watching preseason so far, b/c we've been able to get a ton of pressure from Briggs and LaBoy, did that affect our run game? Not at all...remember, all of our OLB's are conveted DE's and/or ILB's...they can ALL play the run very well if given a chance. We need that special player (or two) who is gifted at getting to the QB first and foremost. We have plenty of run support with the d-line, both Spencer and Clements are great at coming up, speed with Willis, Goldson and perhaps Mays, etc. We should be very solid against the run no matter who is playing the OLB positions. We NEED this added piece if we ever want to be a top 5 defense, IMO.
That piece is Brooks, but I would rather have a combo of Brooks/Lawson then Brooks/Haralson. Haralson has been a bigger disappointment to me then Lawson.
I hope you're right! That said, I'd expect to see Brooks working in for Lawson (maybe even taking more and more snaps from him as a starter) and LaBoy/Briggs doing the same for Haralson if he isn't effective this year. The bottom line is that it's nice to have some pass rushers on the team at the OLB position. Now let's give them the snaps to produce as specialists or rising starters and hopefully, stars at both the SAM & WILL spots.
Oct 5, 2010 at 10:38 PM
- znk916
- Veteran
- Posts: 4,285
on pace for zero sacks
Oct 6, 2010 at 2:10 AM
- ninerbrand
- Member
- Posts: 666
hes as good as he was last year. hes a good player, not a great one.
Oct 6, 2010 at 9:09 AM
- CorvaNinerFan
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,400
Not happening...but I have noticed Brooks stepping up. He'll be the starter next year.
Oct 6, 2010 at 9:29 AM
- dj43
- Moderator
- Posts: 35,655
Lawson is doing what the coaches have asked him to do, which is, seal the edge against the run and cover TEs and RBs on his side. He does that quite well.
He was a bit of a reach when he was drafted. He never was a truly great pass rusher but McCloughan thought the 49ers could turn him into one. That thinking was wrong. There are not very many good 240 pound pass rushers in this league. Even at 250 he isn't going to fight past very many 320 pound OTs. That would be asking too much.
It seems the 49ers hoped that Haralson could turn into the key pass rusher with Manny the cover guy. Well, Haralson has not fulfilled 49er dreams and that makes Lawson appear less effective. What needs to happen is Haralson goes to the bench and Brooks plays on passing downs to rush the passer. That leads to more issues though but not for this thread.
He was a bit of a reach when he was drafted. He never was a truly great pass rusher but McCloughan thought the 49ers could turn him into one. That thinking was wrong. There are not very many good 240 pound pass rushers in this league. Even at 250 he isn't going to fight past very many 320 pound OTs. That would be asking too much.
It seems the 49ers hoped that Haralson could turn into the key pass rusher with Manny the cover guy. Well, Haralson has not fulfilled 49er dreams and that makes Lawson appear less effective. What needs to happen is Haralson goes to the bench and Brooks plays on passing downs to rush the passer. That leads to more issues though but not for this thread.