The Heitmann poll

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Yea, I don't know how you read into what MB said as - Heitmann is a "p***y"

MB said - if Niners make the playoffs, Heitmann could certainly go to ProBowl. Or if he started a fight, the news will make it to ESPN and then he could go to ProBowl. Meaning - the national media and national fan base doesn't know a whole lot about his play or haven't heard his name much and if they did - he would make it to the ProBowl, as we all know it's more of a popularity contest.

Anything else will be like what Lowell Cohn did the other day

49ers Threaten move to LA

Well, perhaps the point is too subtle. I didn't, originally or atfterwards, say MB directly called Heitmann a p***y, I said he POLITELY said it. His words could be interpreted as inferring it.

MB didn't say that Heitmann is a strong, quiet leader who lets his play do the talking. He said he's "so underrated" and followed up by saying that IF he ever started a fight, it would be national news, and THEN Heitmann might make the pro bowl.

Not exactly an overwhelming endorsement of Heitmann's play; he's not comparing him to Bryant Young, or Justin Smith, as quiet in the locker room, but strong and effective leaders and players on the field.

Perhaps it would make more sense if I said, "MB's statement suggests that Heitmann is extremely modest and retiring, or passive." Cause that's the actual definition of the words he used.

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Following the logic of the poster of this thread, and the exact words of MB, I think I've figured it out. MB is schizophrenic.

MB #1 thinks that Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league and thinks he could go to the Pro-Bowl if the Niners reach the playoff.

Meanwhile, MB#2 believes that he is "so unassuming"= He is a "p*ssy".

It is all coming together.

MD... Don't you know, anyone that is quiet and unassuming is a p*ssy?? Bryant Young was unassuming so of course he was a p*ssy, Justin Smith is unassuming so he must be a p*ssy also.

On the other hand, if you are a loud mouth, show boating clown, then you are a tough, rugged man, and that makes you a good football player.

But MB didn't just say Heitmann is simply unassuming. He said he is "so unassuming" meaning very unassuming.

When's the last time you saw Heitmann playing like a Bryant Young on offense? or a Justin Smith?

Just because someone's quiet doesn't automatically mean they're a good football player, anymore than being a showboat does, although, like you, I prefer those who let their play speak for them.

Ray Lewis is NOT unassuming, but he's a good player. Pat Willis seems relatively quiet, and he's a great football player. I'd take him over Lewis anyday--both for his play and for his style.

Not sure you could include Heitmann in a discussion of great centers, irrespective of his style. Doesn't mean I have any hatred for the guy, or a bias against him. To the contrary, I really hope he steps up, with or without the showboating.

Barrows calls him one of the most underrated centers in the league! Your opinion is one thing but this is about the interpretation of what Barrows said. Barrows is calling the guy potentially a pro-bowl caliber center. Hard for me to see any other interpretation than Barrows thinks Heitman is a pretty damn good center.

Well, perhaps if you considered the words as applying to someone other than a Niner player, who's obviously going to be favored by Niners fans (including me).

Lets say MB said that Jamarcus Russell was "so unassuming that if he ever started a fight it would make national news and Russell might actually wake up, work harder and someday go to the probowl."

You think the words "so unassuming" as applied that way to Jamarcus Russell could be interpreted as meaning, "he's too passive, too meek, too much of a sissy" to ever be a good football player? Seems like a possible interpretation, to me.

Make no mistake, I'm not comparing Heitmann to Jacarcass Russell. I'm just using him to illustrate the fact that THE WORDS used could have that interpretation.

Heitmann is not bad but i would like to see a bigger more powerful center like Baas or even Wragge...

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Following the logic of the poster of this thread, and the exact words of MB, I think I've figured it out. MB is schizophrenic.

MB #1 thinks that Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league and thinks he could go to the Pro-Bowl if the Niners reach the playoff.

Meanwhile, MB#2 believes that he is "so unassuming"= He is a "p*ssy".

It is all coming together.

MD... Don't you know, anyone that is quiet and unassuming is a p*ssy?? Bryant Young was unassuming so of course he was a p*ssy, Justin Smith is unassuming so he must be a p*ssy also.

On the other hand, if you are a loud mouth, show boating clown, then you are a tough, rugged man, and that makes you a good football player.

But MB didn't just say Heitmann is simply unassuming. He said he is "so unassuming" meaning very unassuming.

When's the last time you saw Heitmann playing like a Bryant Young on offense? or a Justin Smith?

Just because someone's quiet doesn't automatically mean they're a good football player, anymore than being a showboat does, although, like you, I prefer those who let their play speak for them.

Ray Lewis is NOT unassuming, but he's a good player. Pat Willis seems relatively quiet, and he's a great football player. I'd take him over Lewis anyday--both for his play and for his style.

Not sure you could include Heitmann in a discussion of great centers, irrespective of his style. Doesn't mean I have any hatred for the guy, or a bias against him. To the contrary, I really hope he steps up, with or without the showboating.

49er management must be OK with him otherwise they would have made more of an effort to replace him either via the draft or free agency.

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Following the logic of the poster of this thread, and the exact words of MB, I think I've figured it out. MB is schizophrenic.

MB #1 thinks that Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league and thinks he could go to the Pro-Bowl if the Niners reach the playoff.

Meanwhile, MB#2 believes that he is "so unassuming"= He is a "p*ssy".

It is all coming together.

MD... Don't you know, anyone that is quiet and unassuming is a p*ssy?? Bryant Young was unassuming so of course he was a p*ssy, Justin Smith is unassuming so he must be a p*ssy also.

On the other hand, if you are a loud mouth, show boating clown, then you are a tough, rugged man, and that makes you a good football player.

But MB didn't just say Heitmann is simply unassuming. He said he is "so unassuming" meaning very unassuming.

When's the last time you saw Heitmann playing like a Bryant Young on offense? or a Justin Smith?

Just because someone's quiet doesn't automatically mean they're a good football player, anymore than being a showboat does, although, like you, I prefer those who let their play speak for them.

Ray Lewis is NOT unassuming, but he's a good player. Pat Willis seems relatively quiet, and he's a great football player. I'd take him over Lewis anyday--both for his play and for his style.

Not sure you could include Heitmann in a discussion of great centers, irrespective of his style. Doesn't mean I have any hatred for the guy, or a bias against him. To the contrary, I really hope he steps up, with or without the showboating.

49er management must be OK with him otherwise they would have made more of an effort to replace him either via the draft or free agency.

True, but its not like they haven't had other, bigger needs to address, either.

Trust me, guys. I've seen The Heitmann Poll.

It's plenty big, powerful and most definitely assuming.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Following the logic of the poster of this thread, and the exact words of MB, I think I've figured it out. MB is schizophrenic.

MB #1 thinks that Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league and thinks he could go to the Pro-Bowl if the Niners reach the playoff.

Meanwhile, MB#2 believes that he is "so unassuming"= He is a "p*ssy".

It is all coming together.

MD... Don't you know, anyone that is quiet and unassuming is a p*ssy?? Bryant Young was unassuming so of course he was a p*ssy, Justin Smith is unassuming so he must be a p*ssy also.

On the other hand, if you are a loud mouth, show boating clown, then you are a tough, rugged man, and that makes you a good football player.

But MB didn't just say Heitmann is simply unassuming. He said he is "so unassuming" meaning very unassuming.

When's the last time you saw Heitmann playing like a Bryant Young on offense? or a Justin Smith?

Just because someone's quiet doesn't automatically mean they're a good football player, anymore than being a showboat does, although, like you, I prefer those who let their play speak for them.

Ray Lewis is NOT unassuming, but he's a good player. Pat Willis seems relatively quiet, and he's a great football player. I'd take him over Lewis anyday--both for his play and for his style.

Not sure you could include Heitmann in a discussion of great centers, irrespective of his style. Doesn't mean I have any hatred for the guy, or a bias against him. To the contrary, I really hope he steps up, with or without the showboating.

Barrows calls him one of the most underrated centers in the league! Your opinion is one thing but this is about the interpretation of what Barrows said. Barrows is calling the guy potentially a pro-bowl caliber center. Hard for me to see any other interpretation than Barrows thinks Heitman is a pretty damn good center.

Well, perhaps if you considered the words as applying to someone other than a Niner player, who's obviously going to be favored by Niners fans (including me).

Lets say MB said that Jamarcus Russell was "so unassuming that if he ever started a fight it would make national news and Russell might actually wake up, work harder and someday go to the probowl."

You think the words "so unassuming" as applied that way to Jamarcus Russell could be interpreted as meaning, "he's too passive, too meek, too much of a sissy" to ever be a good football player? Seems like a possible interpretation, to me.

Make no mistake, I'm not comparing Heitmann to Jacarcass Russell. I'm just using him to illustrate the fact that THE WORDS used could have that interpretation.

This comparison doesn't fit the context of the article. Barrows says Heitman is one of the most underrated centers in the league. What other than a positive spin could you put on that? The comparison with Russell would be apt if the beat writer said "Russell was one the most underrated QB's in (or out of I guess) the league" and then went on to describe him in the ways Barrows described Heitman. If they did, the red flags would go up. But this is Barrows, not Kawakami or Cohn.

Originally posted by redrathman:
Trust me, guys. I've seen The Heitmann Poll.

It's plenty big, powerful and most definitely assuming.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by NinerGM:
This poll should have been re-written:

Do you think MD will get pissed if we criticize Heitmann again?

x Yes, but only if he reads this thread after the first response.

x No, not until this thread generate 2 plus pages.



LOL!

Hilarity in the middle of lunacy. Very funny!

MD - you know I love u man!

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Following the logic of the poster of this thread, and the exact words of MB, I think I've figured it out. MB is schizophrenic.

MB #1 thinks that Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league and thinks he could go to the Pro-Bowl if the Niners reach the playoff.

Meanwhile, MB#2 believes that he is "so unassuming"= He is a "p*ssy".

It is all coming together.

MD... Don't you know, anyone that is quiet and unassuming is a p*ssy?? Bryant Young was unassuming so of course he was a p*ssy, Justin Smith is unassuming so he must be a p*ssy also.

On the other hand, if you are a loud mouth, show boating clown, then you are a tough, rugged man, and that makes you a good football player.

Thank you for straightening me up. I've been dazed and confused for far too long now.

The biggest "p*ssy" must have been Barry Sanders. And, he missed that one hole back in 1992, so his whole career was a fraud.

Cheers.

wow, you made the poll but you left out the most common answer for how people would interpret that. too funny

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


I'll post the hit if I can find it.

~Ceadder

My memory might not be what it used to be, but I had attributed the blown block more to Larry Allen's slow feet than to Heitmann.

Allen was already occupied on a blocker. Heitmann was free and had nobody. In any case EH didn't attempt to lay a glove on him. Did Allen block the wrong guy? It's possible. But EH calls the protection schemes. I doubt that Allen would have taken the wrong guy if he was given a different protection assignment. So either EH is not as good as people say he is regarding Assignments. Or EH blew it big time. Or both.

Still looking for the evidence and I know it's out there.

~Ceadder

I'm not committed to blame either OL 100% until I see it again for myself. I just found this interesting...

Quote:
“Usually, when we run that blitz, the guard slams down on me and one of the linebackers goes free. But the guard, Larry Allen, actually looked over at the linebacker and let me go completely free,’’ Benard told Johnson.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2008/09/11/rocky-bernard-looks-back-on-fateful-sack-of-smith/

You may have opened Pandora's box with this link. I mean, some people have based Heitmann's entire career analysis on that one play. He might actually be "good" if not found culpable.

Where would some of these critics go if Bernard was supposed to be blocked by Allen? I mean, they haven't analyzed any other play by Heitmann in the last three years. We might need to put a higher guard rail on the bridges.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Following the logic of the poster of this thread, and the exact words of MB, I think I've figured it out. MB is schizophrenic.

MB #1 thinks that Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league and thinks he could go to the Pro-Bowl if the Niners reach the playoff.

Meanwhile, MB#2 believes that he is "so unassuming"= He is a "p*ssy".

It is all coming together.

MD... Don't you know, anyone that is quiet and unassuming is a p*ssy?? Bryant Young was unassuming so of course he was a p*ssy, Justin Smith is unassuming so he must be a p*ssy also.

On the other hand, if you are a loud mouth, show boating clown, then you are a tough, rugged man, and that makes you a good football player.

Thank you for straightening me up. I've been dazed and confused for far too long now.

The biggest "p*ssy" must have been Barry Sanders. And, he missed that one hole back in 1992, so his whole career was a fraud.

Cheers.

or remember that one time Joe Montana threw an interception in that one game against that one team? member? you member? horrible, just horrible.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


I'll post the hit if I can find it.

~Ceadder

My memory might not be what it used to be, but I had attributed the blown block more to Larry Allen's slow feet than to Heitmann.

Allen was already occupied on a blocker. Heitmann was free and had nobody. In any case EH didn't attempt to lay a glove on him. Did Allen block the wrong guy? It's possible. But EH calls the protection schemes. I doubt that Allen would have taken the wrong guy if he was given a different protection assignment. So either EH is not as good as people say he is regarding Assignments. Or EH blew it big time. Or both.

Still looking for the evidence and I know it's out there.

~Ceadder

I'm not committed to blame either OL 100% until I see it again for myself. I just found this interesting...

Quote:
“Usually, when we run that blitz, the guard slams down on me and one of the linebackers goes free. But the guard, Larry Allen, actually looked over at the linebacker and let me go completely free,’’ Benard told Johnson.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2008/09/11/rocky-bernard-looks-back-on-fateful-sack-of-smith/

You may have opened Pandora's box with this link. I mean, some people have based Heitmann's entire career analysis on that one play. He might actually be "good" if not found culpable.

Where would some of these critics go if Bernard was supposed to be blocked by Allen? I mean, they haven't analyzed any other play by Heitmann in the last three years. We might need to put a higher guard rail on the bridges.

What a sham.

Rocky Bernard knows the 49ers protection assignment calls better than Larry Allen.

You know what's funnier? That Heitmann didn't even move. Your hero just stood there like a bump on a log(the stinky type) and didn't even try to lay a glove on Bernard. The hole was so gaping that I could fit in between that Fat Ass and those two players on either side.

And NO Bernard did NOT look at Allen. From the second the ball was snapped he was coming through the Line. He didn't have the TIME to look at Allen if he wanted to get that Sack.

What a load of Heitmann.

You know what MD? You float that BULL and it makes me feel the urge to hurl.

I really have to find the vid of that play. Cause your version and it's version don't jive.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:


I'll post the hit if I can find it.

~Ceadder

My memory might not be what it used to be, but I had attributed the blown block more to Larry Allen's slow feet than to Heitmann.

Allen was already occupied on a blocker. Heitmann was free and had nobody. In any case EH didn't attempt to lay a glove on him. Did Allen block the wrong guy? It's possible. But EH calls the protection schemes. I doubt that Allen would have taken the wrong guy if he was given a different protection assignment. So either EH is not as good as people say he is regarding Assignments. Or EH blew it big time. Or both.

Still looking for the evidence and I know it's out there.

~Ceadder

I'm not committed to blame either OL 100% until I see it again for myself. I just found this interesting...

Quote:
“Usually, when we run that blitz, the guard slams down on me and one of the linebackers goes free. But the guard, Larry Allen, actually looked over at the linebacker and let me go completely free,’’ Benard told Johnson.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2008/09/11/rocky-bernard-looks-back-on-fateful-sack-of-smith/

You may have opened Pandora's box with this link. I mean, some people have based Heitmann's entire career analysis on that one play. He might actually be "good" if not found culpable.

Where would some of these critics go if Bernard was supposed to be blocked by Allen? I mean, they haven't analyzed any other play by Heitmann in the last three years. We might need to put a higher guard rail on the bridges.

What a sham.

Rocky Bernard knows the 49ers protection assignment calls better than Larry Allen.

You know what's funnier? That Heitmann didn't even move. Your hero just stood there like a bump on a log(the stinky type) and didn't even try to lay a glove on Bernard. The hole was so gaping that I could fit in between that Fat Ass and those two players on either side.

And NO Bernard did NOT look at Allen. From the second the ball was snapped he was coming through the Line. He didn't have the TIME to look at Allen if he wanted to get that Sack.

What a load of Heitmann.

You know what MD? You float that BULL and it makes me feel the urge to hurl.

I really have to find the vid of that play. Cause your version and it's version don't jive.

~Ceadder

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me whether Heitmann was responsible, or not responsible on that play. One play does not make a man.

To isolate any particular single play FROM THREE YEARS AGO, and to evaluate a player the next couple of years from that lens, is bias. That is the bias I have been fighting on this board for some time now. IT WAS ONE PLAY FROM THREE YEARS AGO. At some point, you have to move on.