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All Respect For Lowell Cohn Is Lost (UPDATED)

Originally posted by bigwads:
It's hard to lose respect for a guy who never had any.

Someone must have spiked his Metamucil.
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)

Add to this being 100% wrong on the McCloughan dismissal - he didn't see that coming at ALL until Matt broke the story despite the 49ers stating it had been an issue for some time.

He thought Singletary would be a terrible head coach.

He thought Nolan would not be fired mid-season.

He never thought Hill would be released until the story broke.


For someone who has inside sources, he's usually really LATE to breaking news. Maiocco clearly has sources and usually is the first to break a story (at times Barrows). This is why I Kawakami, Cohen, Lynch, Killion and others usually write opinion articles, they don't break news nor can you place a lot of faith in their "predictions". The way I see it when the Yorks came in, they cut off a lot of their insiders developed for years under DeBartolo. To this day I believe this is why Clark Judge and Ira Miller HATE the 49ers. They consistently say "terrible ownership" but when is this not going to be an excuse? I guess "being held accountable" by the "media" means kissing the media's ass.

Maybe if these folks actually broke a news story, I could have a little more faith and credibility in their articles. Outside of them, I really only believe to large degree Maiocco and Barrows.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Jun 1, 2010 at 5:36 PM ]
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)

Well, we did get busted for tampering. And from what I've read most teams do it all the time. Our org was just dumb enough to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Timmy loves Jimmy. What can I say?

When asked if Scotty thought we'd go after Martz for the off cor job he said no and that he didn't think Martz fit into what we did on offense. Only to watch Nolan hire him a couple months later to "save his job". Sounds like everyone was on the same page for that hire yeah? Harmony in the front office!

Yes, our flow chart is the model for every NFL team! Paraag, Jed, and some guy from the island of Mipos. No real GM. But hey, everything is fine! We're guaranteed a playoff birth this year. Oops I think it was last year. Who knows.

Little Timmy and Lowell are not the problem. You'd have to agree that over the last 7 yrs our org has been a pretty easy traget.
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)

Well, we did get busted for tampering. And from what I've read most teams do it all the time. Our org was just dumb enough to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Timmy loves Jimmy. What can I say?

When asked if Scotty thought we'd go after Martz for the off cor job he said no and that he didn't think Martz fit into what we did on offense. Only to watch Nolan hire him a couple months later to "save his job". Sounds like everyone was on the same page for that hire yeah? Harmony in the front office!

Yes, our flow chart is the model for every NFL team! Paraag, Jed, and some guy from the island of Mipos. No real GM. But hey, everything is fine! We're guaranteed a playoff birth this year. Oops I think it was last year. Who knows.

Little Timmy and Lowell are not the problem. You'd have to agree that over the last 7 yrs our org has been a pretty easy traget.

Dude, you are missing the point. The argument is GOOD journalism vs. BAD journalism.

"Reporters" like Timmy, Lowell, and Mike Florio are getting by now just crediting rumors to unnamed sources. It's a crock... and one day when a significant story like that gets big enough, someone is going to call them out and hit them with a cease and desist. Just last week it happened to TerezOwens.com concerning the story about LeBron James' mom and Delonte West.

If one reports things that no one else does, then that person should actually do some journalism and not just make claims, otherwise their reports are baseless.

So when Timmy says he has a source that knows of emails regarding Lance Briggs, then he should actually follow up and call the front office or the NFL in New York to seek comment. That's journalism. He might not like the answers he gets, but that's how journalism works.

If a source says "the 49ers will not pass on Jimmy Clausen," then you better actually try to make an effort and make a call to Clausen's agent to see if there is any validity to said rumor. Or research where Clausen has visited. Or call up the 49ers' front office. This helps you get an idea if the source is correct.

Or if there is a hiring of someone like Mike Martz that seems to go against the grain of the original direction of the franchise, then call up and try to get an interview or comment from the head coach or GM. Scott could have been just using some misdirection as to not give away the intentions of him and Nolan regarding the OC hire. Otherwise, all you are doing is speculating and your reporting is baseless. That is the issue here.

So when someone like Mike Florio goes on his site and says "a source" reported that Steve Smith said "Jimmy Clausen is a punk," I can't help but shrug my shoulders. You can't just report things and not follow up on them. Steve Smith vehemently denied it, no one else has reported that information, and Clausen was surprised more than anyone. In what context did Smith say this thing? Did he say it during practice? Under his breath? To a teammate? No one knows, and Florio doesn't care because all he wants is hits on his site.

That's the problem with writers like Lowell, Timmy, and Mike Florio. The internet has allowed them to hide behind unnamed sources, so they are at liberty to make up anything they want until they get a cease and desist.

And if you get enough things purely wrong, you lose your credibility. That's how we are where we are now with Tim, Lowell, and Florio.
[ Edited by NickSh49 on Jun 1, 2010 at 10:35 PM ]
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)

Well, we did get busted for tampering. And from what I've read most teams do it all the time. Our org was just dumb enough to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Timmy loves Jimmy. What can I say?

When asked if Scotty thought we'd go after Martz for the off cor job he said no and that he didn't think Martz fit into what we did on offense. Only to watch Nolan hire him a couple months later to "save his job". Sounds like everyone was on the same page for that hire yeah? Harmony in the front office!

Yes, our flow chart is the model for every NFL team! Paraag, Jed, and some guy from the island of Mipos. No real GM. But hey, everything is fine! We're guaranteed a playoff birth this year. Oops I think it was last year. Who knows.

Little Timmy and Lowell are not the problem. You'd have to agree that over the last 7 yrs our org has been a pretty easy traget.

Dude, you are missing the point. The argument is GOOD journalism vs. BAD journalism.

"Reporters" like Timmy, Lowell, and Mike Florio are getting by now just crediting rumors to unnamed sources. It's a crock... and one day when a significant story like that gets big enough, someone is going to call them out and hit them with a cease and desist. Just last week it happened to TerezOwens.com concerning the story about LeBron James' mom and Delonte West.

If one reports things that no one else does, then that person should actually do some journalism and not just make claims, otherwise their reports are baseless.

So when Timmy says he has a source that knows of emails regarding Lance Briggs, then he should actually follow up and call the front office or the NFL in New York to seek comment. That's journalism. He might not like the answers he gets, but that's how journalism works.

If a source says "the 49ers will not pass on Jimmy Clausen," then you better actually try to make an effort and make a call to Clausen's agent to see if there is any validity to said rumor. Or research where Clausen has visited. Or call up the 49ers' front office. This helps you get an idea if the source is correct.

Or if there is a hiring of someone like Mike Martz that seems to go against the grain of the original direction of the franchise, then call up and try to get an interview or comment from the head coach or GM. Scott could have been just using some misdirection as to not give away the intentions of him and Nolan regarding the OC hire. Otherwise, all you are doing is speculating and your reporting is baseless. That is the issue here.

So when someone like Mike Florio goes on his site and says "a source" reported that Steve Smith said "Jimmy Clausen is a punk," I can't help but shrug my shoulders. You can't just report things and not follow up on them. Steve Smith vehemently denied it, no one else has reported that information, and Clausen was surprised more than anyone. In what context did Smith say this thing? Did he say it during practice? Under his breath? To a teammate? No one knows, and Florio doesn't care because all he wants is hits on his site.

That's the problem with writers like Lowell, Timmy, and Mike Florio. The internet has allowed them to hide behind unnamed sources, so they are at liberty to make up anything they want until they get a cease and desist.

And if you get enough things purely wrong, you lose your credibility. That's how we are where we are now with Tim, Lowell, and Florio.

Dude, I get your point and I respect your opinion. I just disagree, and I don't think you HAVE to agree w/me at all. Its all good.

Cohn has been around forever, Timmy has worked in many big markets for a long time. Florio took a podunk rumormill website and turned into a juggernaut that is now sponsored by NBC. If these guys were flat out hacks they'd be long gone by now. I'm sure you know how brutal print and electronic media is these days. If these guys were causing problems w/lawsuits and the like, they'd be out on their asses in a heartbeat. Until I hear they are in trouble, I'll assume they are doing their jobs.

Of course I don't take everthing they say as gospel. But its nice to hear an actual opinion every now and then. If I want to read a boxscore or get a report from camp I'll read the beat guys. That's what their here for.
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)

Well, we did get busted for tampering. And from what I've read most teams do it all the time. Our org was just dumb enough to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Timmy loves Jimmy. What can I say?

When asked if Scotty thought we'd go after Martz for the off cor job he said no and that he didn't think Martz fit into what we did on offense. Only to watch Nolan hire him a couple months later to "save his job". Sounds like everyone was on the same page for that hire yeah? Harmony in the front office!

Yes, our flow chart is the model for every NFL team! Paraag, Jed, and some guy from the island of Mipos. No real GM. But hey, everything is fine! We're guaranteed a playoff birth this year. Oops I think it was last year. Who knows.

Little Timmy and Lowell are not the problem. You'd have to agree that over the last 7 yrs our org has been a pretty easy traget.

Dude, you are missing the point. The argument is GOOD journalism vs. BAD journalism.

"Reporters" like Timmy, Lowell, and Mike Florio are getting by now just crediting rumors to unnamed sources. It's a crock... and one day when a significant story like that gets big enough, someone is going to call them out and hit them with a cease and desist. Just last week it happened to TerezOwens.com concerning the story about LeBron James' mom and Delonte West.

If one reports things that no one else does, then that person should actually do some journalism and not just make claims, otherwise their reports are baseless.

So when Timmy says he has a source that knows of emails regarding Lance Briggs, then he should actually follow up and call the front office or the NFL in New York to seek comment. That's journalism. He might not like the answers he gets, but that's how journalism works.

If a source says "the 49ers will not pass on Jimmy Clausen," then you better actually try to make an effort and make a call to Clausen's agent to see if there is any validity to said rumor. Or research where Clausen has visited. Or call up the 49ers' front office. This helps you get an idea if the source is correct.

Or if there is a hiring of someone like Mike Martz that seems to go against the grain of the original direction of the franchise, then call up and try to get an interview or comment from the head coach or GM. Scott could have been just using some misdirection as to not give away the intentions of him and Nolan regarding the OC hire. Otherwise, all you are doing is speculating and your reporting is baseless. That is the issue here.

So when someone like Mike Florio goes on his site and says "a source" reported that Steve Smith said "Jimmy Clausen is a punk," I can't help but shrug my shoulders. You can't just report things and not follow up on them. Steve Smith vehemently denied it, no one else has reported that information, and Clausen was surprised more than anyone. In what context did Smith say this thing? Did he say it during practice? Under his breath? To a teammate? No one knows, and Florio doesn't care because all he wants is hits on his site.

That's the problem with writers like Lowell, Timmy, and Mike Florio. The internet has allowed them to hide behind unnamed sources, so they are at liberty to make up anything they want until they get a cease and desist.

And if you get enough things purely wrong, you lose your credibility. That's how we are where we are now with Tim, Lowell, and Florio.

Dude, I get your point and I respect your opinion. I just disagree, and I don't think you HAVE to agree w/me at all. Its all good.

Cohn has been around forever, Timmy has worked in many big markets for a long time. Florio took a podunk rumormill website and turned into a juggernaut that is now sponsored by NBC. If these guys were flat out hacks they'd be long gone by now. I'm sure you know how brutal print and electronic media is these days. If these guys were causing problems w/lawsuits and the like, they'd be out on their asses in a heartbeat. Until I hear they are in trouble, I'll assume they are doing their jobs.

Of course I don't take everthing they say as gospel. But its nice to hear an actual opinion every now and then. If I want to read a boxscore or get a report from camp I'll read the beat guys. That's what their here for.

But that's the problem. You can't assume that. That's why you hold people to their claims. That's why some writers have credibility and some do not. The three guys in question have marginal credibility at best. Hell, Timmy's been more wrong than he has been right regarding his Niners scoops.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)

Well, we did get busted for tampering. And from what I've read most teams do it all the time. Our org was just dumb enough to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Timmy loves Jimmy. What can I say?

When asked if Scotty thought we'd go after Martz for the off cor job he said no and that he didn't think Martz fit into what we did on offense. Only to watch Nolan hire him a couple months later to "save his job". Sounds like everyone was on the same page for that hire yeah? Harmony in the front office!

Yes, our flow chart is the model for every NFL team! Paraag, Jed, and some guy from the island of Mipos. No real GM. But hey, everything is fine! We're guaranteed a playoff birth this year. Oops I think it was last year. Who knows.

Little Timmy and Lowell are not the problem. You'd have to agree that over the last 7 yrs our org has been a pretty easy traget.

Dude, you are missing the point. The argument is GOOD journalism vs. BAD journalism.

"Reporters" like Timmy, Lowell, and Mike Florio are getting by now just crediting rumors to unnamed sources. It's a crock... and one day when a significant story like that gets big enough, someone is going to call them out and hit them with a cease and desist. Just last week it happened to TerezOwens.com concerning the story about LeBron James' mom and Delonte West.

If one reports things that no one else does, then that person should actually do some journalism and not just make claims, otherwise their reports are baseless.

So when Timmy says he has a source that knows of emails regarding Lance Briggs, then he should actually follow up and call the front office or the NFL in New York to seek comment. That's journalism. He might not like the answers he gets, but that's how journalism works.

If a source says "the 49ers will not pass on Jimmy Clausen," then you better actually try to make an effort and make a call to Clausen's agent to see if there is any validity to said rumor. Or research where Clausen has visited. Or call up the 49ers' front office. This helps you get an idea if the source is correct.

Or if there is a hiring of someone like Mike Martz that seems to go against the grain of the original direction of the franchise, then call up and try to get an interview or comment from the head coach or GM. Scott could have been just using some misdirection as to not give away the intentions of him and Nolan regarding the OC hire. Otherwise, all you are doing is speculating and your reporting is baseless. That is the issue here.

So when someone like Mike Florio goes on his site and says "a source" reported that Steve Smith said "Jimmy Clausen is a punk," I can't help but shrug my shoulders. You can't just report things and not follow up on them. Steve Smith vehemently denied it, no one else has reported that information, and Clausen was surprised more than anyone. In what context did Smith say this thing? Did he say it during practice? Under his breath? To a teammate? No one knows, and Florio doesn't care because all he wants is hits on his site.

That's the problem with writers like Lowell, Timmy, and Mike Florio. The internet has allowed them to hide behind unnamed sources, so they are at liberty to make up anything they want until they get a cease and desist.

And if you get enough things purely wrong, you lose your credibility. That's how we are where we are now with Tim, Lowell, and Florio.

Dude, I get your point and I respect your opinion. I just disagree, and I don't think you HAVE to agree w/me at all. Its all good.

Cohn has been around forever, Timmy has worked in many big markets for a long time. Florio took a podunk rumormill website and turned into a juggernaut that is now sponsored by NBC. If these guys were flat out hacks they'd be long gone by now. I'm sure you know how brutal print and electronic media is these days. If these guys were causing problems w/lawsuits and the like, they'd be out on their asses in a heartbeat. Until I hear they are in trouble, I'll assume they are doing their jobs.

Of course I don't take everthing they say as gospel. But its nice to hear an actual opinion every now and then. If I want to read a boxscore or get a report from camp I'll read the beat guys. That's what their here for.

But that's the problem. You can't assume that. That's why you hold people to their claims. That's why some writers have credibility and some do not. The three guys in question have marginal credibility at best. Hell, Timmy's been more wrong than he has been right regarding his Niners scoops.


Kawakami and Cohn are opinion writers who provide theories and opinions on the local sports teams. With the e-mails, Tim was right. With the Nolan/McC struggle, there was evidence to support his theory, and with Clausen he said "almost certainty", not certainly. They are not Maiocco, they are entirely different types of writers.

Maiocco is a fact-based journalist, he gets the facts and tells you what he knows is going on 100%. Kawakami and Cohn are (mostly) conjecture-based writers who take the evidence that writers like Maiocco are putting out there and try to make some sense of it. They try and piece together whats going on behind the scenes since that's what's so hard to figure out. As long as you take them as opinion/theory writers and not as fact journalists I think their columns are enjoyable.

For example: This whole LA thing. Would we even be talking about LA as much without Cohn's article? Should we be? Think about it, Santa Clara is still no sure thing, Hunters Point and Oakland have been in the works for almost a decade now while LA already has plans and presumably clearance for a beautiful new stadium. York has yet to say, "we will not move to LA ever, it won't happen." It's realistic that the 49ers move to LA if you think about it, and that's what he's trying to get you to do.

You don't have to agree, as Cohn states here but I recommend re-reading their columns as opinions, not facts(even though they are cocky enough to state them as such).

For the record, I am not trying to be a Kawakami/Cohn apologist. I do not agree with many of their opinions but they are usually a good read and are very thought provoking. I understand that you and many others don't like their columns and that's fine, just wanted to explain why some of us continue to read them.
[ Edited by foreign49er on Jun 2, 2010 at 5:13 AM ]
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)

Well, we did get busted for tampering. And from what I've read most teams do it all the time. Our org was just dumb enough to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Timmy loves Jimmy. What can I say?

When asked if Scotty thought we'd go after Martz for the off cor job he said no and that he didn't think Martz fit into what we did on offense. Only to watch Nolan hire him a couple months later to "save his job". Sounds like everyone was on the same page for that hire yeah? Harmony in the front office!

Yes, our flow chart is the model for every NFL team! Paraag, Jed, and some guy from the island of Mipos. No real GM. But hey, everything is fine! We're guaranteed a playoff birth this year. Oops I think it was last year. Who knows.

Little Timmy and Lowell are not the problem. You'd have to agree that over the last 7 yrs our org has been a pretty easy traget.

Dude, you are missing the point. The argument is GOOD journalism vs. BAD journalism.

"Reporters" like Timmy, Lowell, and Mike Florio are getting by now just crediting rumors to unnamed sources. It's a crock... and one day when a significant story like that gets big enough, someone is going to call them out and hit them with a cease and desist. Just last week it happened to TerezOwens.com concerning the story about LeBron James' mom and Delonte West.

If one reports things that no one else does, then that person should actually do some journalism and not just make claims, otherwise their reports are baseless.

So when Timmy says he has a source that knows of emails regarding Lance Briggs, then he should actually follow up and call the front office or the NFL in New York to seek comment. That's journalism. He might not like the answers he gets, but that's how journalism works.

If a source says "the 49ers will not pass on Jimmy Clausen," then you better actually try to make an effort and make a call to Clausen's agent to see if there is any validity to said rumor. Or research where Clausen has visited. Or call up the 49ers' front office. This helps you get an idea if the source is correct.

Or if there is a hiring of someone like Mike Martz that seems to go against the grain of the original direction of the franchise, then call up and try to get an interview or comment from the head coach or GM. Scott could have been just using some misdirection as to not give away the intentions of him and Nolan regarding the OC hire. Otherwise, all you are doing is speculating and your reporting is baseless. That is the issue here.

So when someone like Mike Florio goes on his site and says "a source" reported that Steve Smith said "Jimmy Clausen is a punk," I can't help but shrug my shoulders. You can't just report things and not follow up on them. Steve Smith vehemently denied it, no one else has reported that information, and Clausen was surprised more than anyone. In what context did Smith say this thing? Did he say it during practice? Under his breath? To a teammate? No one knows, and Florio doesn't care because all he wants is hits on his site.

That's the problem with writers like Lowell, Timmy, and Mike Florio. The internet has allowed them to hide behind unnamed sources, so they are at liberty to make up anything they want until they get a cease and desist.

And if you get enough things purely wrong, you lose your credibility. That's how we are where we are now with Tim, Lowell, and Florio.

Dude, I get your point and I respect your opinion. I just disagree, and I don't think you HAVE to agree w/me at all. Its all good.

Cohn has been around forever, Timmy has worked in many big markets for a long time. Florio took a podunk rumormill website and turned into a juggernaut that is now sponsored by NBC. If these guys were flat out hacks they'd be long gone by now. I'm sure you know how brutal print and electronic media is these days. If these guys were causing problems w/lawsuits and the like, they'd be out on their asses in a heartbeat. Until I hear they are in trouble, I'll assume they are doing their jobs.

Of course I don't take everthing they say as gospel. But its nice to hear an actual opinion every now and then. If I want to read a boxscore or get a report from camp I'll read the beat guys. That's what their here for.

But that's the problem. You can't assume that. That's why you hold people to their claims. That's why some writers have credibility and some do not. The three guys in question have marginal credibility at best. Hell, Timmy's been more wrong than he has been right regarding his Niners scoops.

You don't have to agree, as Cohn states here but I recommend re-reading their columns as opinions, not facts(even though they are cocky enough to state them as such).

But again, that's the problem. You can't pass information off as fact if you're just trying to support a stance or opinion. You're giving them a pass based off the general nature of their writing. It's not opinion if you try to pass information off as fact.

Ann Killion & Ray Ratto write opinion pieces, where they don't try to introduce new information to support their (mostly false) claims. The above 3, however, have a different agenda.

And again, with Timmy on the Lance Briggs emails, no other source confirmed it was indeed emails that incriminated the 49ers. The league never came out and said what the situation was. You're assuming Tim is right and telling the truth about the email and the content within the emails.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)

Well, we did get busted for tampering. And from what I've read most teams do it all the time. Our org was just dumb enough to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Timmy loves Jimmy. What can I say?

When asked if Scotty thought we'd go after Martz for the off cor job he said no and that he didn't think Martz fit into what we did on offense. Only to watch Nolan hire him a couple months later to "save his job". Sounds like everyone was on the same page for that hire yeah? Harmony in the front office!

Yes, our flow chart is the model for every NFL team! Paraag, Jed, and some guy from the island of Mipos. No real GM. But hey, everything is fine! We're guaranteed a playoff birth this year. Oops I think it was last year. Who knows.

Little Timmy and Lowell are not the problem. You'd have to agree that over the last 7 yrs our org has been a pretty easy traget.

Dude, you are missing the point. The argument is GOOD journalism vs. BAD journalism.

"Reporters" like Timmy, Lowell, and Mike Florio are getting by now just crediting rumors to unnamed sources. It's a crock... and one day when a significant story like that gets big enough, someone is going to call them out and hit them with a cease and desist. Just last week it happened to TerezOwens.com concerning the story about LeBron James' mom and Delonte West.

If one reports things that no one else does, then that person should actually do some journalism and not just make claims, otherwise their reports are baseless.

So when Timmy says he has a source that knows of emails regarding Lance Briggs, then he should actually follow up and call the front office or the NFL in New York to seek comment. That's journalism. He might not like the answers he gets, but that's how journalism works.

If a source says "the 49ers will not pass on Jimmy Clausen," then you better actually try to make an effort and make a call to Clausen's agent to see if there is any validity to said rumor. Or research where Clausen has visited. Or call up the 49ers' front office. This helps you get an idea if the source is correct.

Or if there is a hiring of someone like Mike Martz that seems to go against the grain of the original direction of the franchise, then call up and try to get an interview or comment from the head coach or GM. Scott could have been just using some misdirection as to not give away the intentions of him and Nolan regarding the OC hire. Otherwise, all you are doing is speculating and your reporting is baseless. That is the issue here.

So when someone like Mike Florio goes on his site and says "a source" reported that Steve Smith said "Jimmy Clausen is a punk," I can't help but shrug my shoulders. You can't just report things and not follow up on them. Steve Smith vehemently denied it, no one else has reported that information, and Clausen was surprised more than anyone. In what context did Smith say this thing? Did he say it during practice? Under his breath? To a teammate? No one knows, and Florio doesn't care because all he wants is hits on his site.

That's the problem with writers like Lowell, Timmy, and Mike Florio. The internet has allowed them to hide behind unnamed sources, so they are at liberty to make up anything they want until they get a cease and desist.

And if you get enough things purely wrong, you lose your credibility. That's how we are where we are now with Tim, Lowell, and Florio.

Dude, I get your point and I respect your opinion. I just disagree, and I don't think you HAVE to agree w/me at all. Its all good.

Cohn has been around forever, Timmy has worked in many big markets for a long time. Florio took a podunk rumormill website and turned into a juggernaut that is now sponsored by NBC. If these guys were flat out hacks they'd be long gone by now. I'm sure you know how brutal print and electronic media is these days. If these guys were causing problems w/lawsuits and the like, they'd be out on their asses in a heartbeat. Until I hear they are in trouble, I'll assume they are doing their jobs.

Of course I don't take everthing they say as gospel. But its nice to hear an actual opinion every now and then. If I want to read a boxscore or get a report from camp I'll read the beat guys. That's what their here for.

But that's the problem. You can't assume that. That's why you hold people to their claims. That's why some writers have credibility and some do not. The three guys in question have marginal credibility at best. Hell, Timmy's been more wrong than he has been right regarding his Niners scoops.

You don't have to agree, as Cohn states here but I recommend re-reading their columns as opinions, not facts(even though they are cocky enough to state them as such).

But again, that's the problem. You can't pass information off as fact if you're just trying to support a stance or opinion. You're giving them a pass based off the general nature of their writing. It's not opinion if you try to pass information off as fact.

Ann Killion & Ray Ratto write opinion pieces, where they don't try to introduce new information to support their (mostly false) claims. The above 3, however, have a different agenda.

And again, with Timmy on the Lance Briggs emails, no other source confirmed it was indeed emails that incriminated the 49ers. The league never came out and said what the situation was. You're assuming Tim is right and telling the truth about the email and the content within the emails.

I put Kawakami and Cohn in the same category as Ratto. Cohn's piece was obviously an opinion, I don't need somebody to say "in my opinion" to realize that their claims are conjecture not fact. That's why I said, go back and re-read them as opinion and you might think differently of them.

I'm not giving them a pass, I'm judging them on different criteria. Maiocco is for information, TK and LC are for opinion. If you look at it any other way even though you know that most of what TK and LC say is pure conjecture then that's your decision.

In Kawakami's article on the e-mails he uses the words "apparently", and "my understanding is", also this little gem : Some of the most fascinating, detailed stuff I heard is from just one source, so it’s not totally confirmed–though it’s not completely denied by other reputable sources, either. (Still, I’m leaving most of it out of this entry.)link

Imo he's actually discrediting the information more than he's passing it off as fact. Nobody was/is/has said anything about it besides "two phone calls to Frank Gore's agent." Nobody has come out and denied his claims either.

I'm not assuming he's right, I'm also not assuming he's wrong.
[ Edited by foreign49er on Jun 2, 2010 at 1:03 PM ]
did anyone hear cohn on knbr with gary radnich today?
Terrible
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by bjghum:
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
The only reporter to sensationalize Jed York's comments about Los Angeles.

LINK.



Thanks Lowell, but you can now join Timmy K over in the corner where we ignore bad sports reporting.



Thanks for coming dude. You won't be missed.

(UPDATE: Look! Timmy's doing it too!)

agreed.

Funny. All of the sudden Al's sandwich boy has credibility with 9er fans.

Damn that mean ol' Tim Kawakami!! He's just out to ruin all that is great in BA sports!

The Al Davis-Kawakami debacle is it's own thing. Timmy just has a history of reporting speculation and trying to pass it off as fact. Some examples off the top of my head are...

• When the Lance Briggs fiasco hit, Timmy claimed a source of his had access to the emails that incriminated the 49ers in tampering. He also said he knew what was in the emails and who made the phone calls that further incriminated the 49ers. He also made the claim that the emails showed discord in the 49ers' front ofice. However, he has never explained the details behind any of this... ever. He just hid behind his "sources" and never actually did any journalism to get to the bottom of the situation. (LINK)

• Timmy's obsession with the 49ers and Jimmy Clausen, which was indisputably 100% bulls**t. (LINK)

Timmy's "trigger man" obsession, speculating on and on about a power struggle between Nolan and Scotty, when there never was evidence of anything of the sort. (LINK)

Well, we did get busted for tampering. And from what I've read most teams do it all the time. Our org was just dumb enough to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Timmy loves Jimmy. What can I say?

When asked if Scotty thought we'd go after Martz for the off cor job he said no and that he didn't think Martz fit into what we did on offense. Only to watch Nolan hire him a couple months later to "save his job". Sounds like everyone was on the same page for that hire yeah? Harmony in the front office!

Yes, our flow chart is the model for every NFL team! Paraag, Jed, and some guy from the island of Mipos. No real GM. But hey, everything is fine! We're guaranteed a playoff birth this year. Oops I think it was last year. Who knows.

Little Timmy and Lowell are not the problem. You'd have to agree that over the last 7 yrs our org has been a pretty easy traget.

Dude, you are missing the point. The argument is GOOD journalism vs. BAD journalism.

"Reporters" like Timmy, Lowell, and Mike Florio are getting by now just crediting rumors to unnamed sources. It's a crock... and one day when a significant story like that gets big enough, someone is going to call them out and hit them with a cease and desist. Just last week it happened to TerezOwens.com concerning the story about LeBron James' mom and Delonte West.

If one reports things that no one else does, then that person should actually do some journalism and not just make claims, otherwise their reports are baseless.

So when Timmy says he has a source that knows of emails regarding Lance Briggs, then he should actually follow up and call the front office or the NFL in New York to seek comment. That's journalism. He might not like the answers he gets, but that's how journalism works.

If a source says "the 49ers will not pass on Jimmy Clausen," then you better actually try to make an effort and make a call to Clausen's agent to see if there is any validity to said rumor. Or research where Clausen has visited. Or call up the 49ers' front office. This helps you get an idea if the source is correct.

Or if there is a hiring of someone like Mike Martz that seems to go against the grain of the original direction of the franchise, then call up and try to get an interview or comment from the head coach or GM. Scott could have been just using some misdirection as to not give away the intentions of him and Nolan regarding the OC hire. Otherwise, all you are doing is speculating and your reporting is baseless. That is the issue here.

So when someone like Mike Florio goes on his site and says "a source" reported that Steve Smith said "Jimmy Clausen is a punk," I can't help but shrug my shoulders. You can't just report things and not follow up on them. Steve Smith vehemently denied it, no one else has reported that information, and Clausen was surprised more than anyone. In what context did Smith say this thing? Did he say it during practice? Under his breath? To a teammate? No one knows, and Florio doesn't care because all he wants is hits on his site.

That's the problem with writers like Lowell, Timmy, and Mike Florio. The internet has allowed them to hide behind unnamed sources, so they are at liberty to make up anything they want until they get a cease and desist.

And if you get enough things purely wrong, you lose your credibility. That's how we are where we are now with Tim, Lowell, and Florio.

Dude, I get your point and I respect your opinion. I just disagree, and I don't think you HAVE to agree w/me at all. Its all good.

Cohn has been around forever, Timmy has worked in many big markets for a long time. Florio took a podunk rumormill website and turned into a juggernaut that is now sponsored by NBC. If these guys were flat out hacks they'd be long gone by now. I'm sure you know how brutal print and electronic media is these days. If these guys were causing problems w/lawsuits and the like, they'd be out on their asses in a heartbeat. Until I hear they are in trouble, I'll assume they are doing their jobs.

Of course I don't take everthing they say as gospel. But its nice to hear an actual opinion every now and then. If I want to read a boxscore or get a report from camp I'll read the beat guys. That's what their here for.

But that's the problem. You can't assume that. That's why you hold people to their claims. That's why some writers have credibility and some do not. The three guys in question have marginal credibility at best. Hell, Timmy's been more wrong than he has been right regarding his Niners scoops.

You don't have to agree, as Cohn states here but I recommend re-reading their columns as opinions, not facts(even though they are cocky enough to state them as such).

But again, that's the problem. You can't pass information off as fact if you're just trying to support a stance or opinion. You're giving them a pass based off the general nature of their writing. It's not opinion if you try to pass information off as fact.

Ann Killion & Ray Ratto write opinion pieces, where they don't try to introduce new information to support their (mostly false) claims. The above 3, however, have a different agenda.

And again, with Timmy on the Lance Briggs emails, no other source confirmed it was indeed emails that incriminated the 49ers. The league never came out and said what the situation was. You're assuming Tim is right and telling the truth about the email and the content within the emails.

I put Kawakami and Cohn in the same category as Ratto. Cohn's piece was obviously an opinion, I don't need somebody to say "in my opinion" to realize that their claims are conjecture not fact. That's why I said, go back and re-read them as opinion and you might think differently of them.

I'm not giving them a pass, I'm judging them on different criteria. Maiocco is for information, TK and LC are for opinion. If you look at it any other way even though you know that most of what TK and LC say is pure conjecture then that's your decision.

In Kawakami's article on the e-mails he uses the words "apparently", and "my understanding is", also this little gem : Some of the most fascinating, detailed stuff I heard is from just one source, so it’s not totally confirmed–though it’s not completely denied by other reputable sources, either. (Still, I’m leaving most of it out of this entry.)link

Imo he's actually discrediting the information more than he's passing it off as fact. Nobody was/is/has said anything about it besides "two phone calls to Frank Gore's agent." Nobody has come out and denied his claims either.

I'm not assuming he's right, I'm also not assuming he's wrong.

BALLS.
I've been reading both Cohn's and Kawakami's columns for years. Not till recently have I found myself fiercely debating them on their blogs. Believe it or not, I have a huge respect for both journalists even though I find myself disagreeing with them most of the time. Love 'em or hate 'em they're pros and at the top of their fields (at least locally). They wouldn’t be where they are if they weren’t. Just don’t let them get to you, I know, easier said then done.
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