Manny Lawson's worth

Originally posted by awol36:

Originally posted by wolfpack52:
Lawson stinks of a guy who has a monster year right before his contract expires. So hes going to have a huge year and its going to be impossible to resign him. But he will sign long term elsewhere and be mediocre.

yup i agree, he sets the edge real good on runs, if he gets his pass rush going. he could be a force.

He only has one pass rush move and that is speed. Brooks already has shown to be a more natural pass rusher then Manny will ever be. If the Niners didnot keep Julian Peterson then why keep a lesser version of him?

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

But do we REALLY have to go down this freakin path again?!!!

Remember how many people didn't think Julian Peterson was worth $50 mil? He got it didn't he? And I don't remember a Sheattle fan complaining that he wasn't worth it.

People really just need to stop. If Manny goes he goes. But if we can retain him then dammit, do so. Our team needs to stop pissing their own players off. Seriously. How do you get big name FA players?

SHOW THEM THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN. Duh.

But I have faith in Parage to get the guy extended and for a reasonable guaranteed amount. Cause that's what the issue is. It's not 4, 14, 40 or even $400 million. That's nothing more than a number that NEVER gets played for. It's very rare for a player to get 1/2 of the value of the contract in the NFL. If you know and understand this then WTF are you bishin about?

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

But do we REALLY have to go down this freakin path again?!!!

Remember how many people didn't think Julian Peterson was worth $50 mil? He got it didn't he? And I don't remember a Sheattle fan complaining that he wasn't worth it.

People really just need to stop. If Manny goes he goes. But if we can retain him then dammit, do so. Our team needs to stop pissing their own players off. Seriously. How do you get big name FA players?

SHOW THEM THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN. Duh.

But I have faith in Parage to get the guy extended and for a reasonable guaranteed amount. Cause that's what the issue is. It's not 4, 14, 40 or even $400 million. That's nothing more than a number that NEVER gets played for. It's very rare for a player to get 1/2 of the value of the contract in the NFL. If you know and understand this then WTF are you bishin about?

~Ceadder

You can't compare Lawson to Peterson. Remember Peterson was franchised several times before they let him walk. Manny has never held that sort of status. He has been a starter because he is simply the best we could get. Now, that it's time for an extension all signs point to him not being here next year. Not a real shocker.

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

But do we REALLY have to go down this freakin path again?!!!

Remember how many people didn't think Julian Peterson was worth $50 mil? He got it didn't he? And I don't remember a Sheattle fan complaining that he wasn't worth it.

People really just need to stop. If Manny goes he goes. But if we can retain him then dammit, do so. Our team needs to stop pissing their own players off. Seriously. How do you get big name FA players?

SHOW THEM THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN. Duh.

But I have faith in Parage to get the guy extended and for a reasonable guaranteed amount. Cause that's what the issue is. It's not 4, 14, 40 or even $400 million. That's nothing more than a number that NEVER gets played for. It's very rare for a player to get 1/2 of the value of the contract in the NFL. If you know and understand this then WTF are you bishin about?

~Ceadder

You can't compare Lawson to Peterson. Remember Peterson was franchised several times before they let him walk. Manny has never held that sort of status. He has been a starter because he is simply the best we could get. Now, that it's time for an extension all signs point to him not being here next year. Not a real shocker.

I can't? JP was not the Pass Rusher that we wanted him to be when he was here and people said he wasn't a 3-4 LB. Ummm he proved us wrong on that didn't he? He was replaceable wasn't he?

Now we're right back in the same position again. Only Pass covering LBs' are alot harder to find than an edge Rushing LB. So tell me how I can't compare them? You can say what you want about the Franchise, but there is no guarantee that there will even be a Tag after the next CBA. And next year being an uncapped year, the tag is not applicable either.

So please I really would like to know how I can't compare JP and Manny? Shoot Manny is faster than JP, plays the Run better and does get to the QB.

I think that saying that he's not worth $15 mil guaranteed is tantamount to myopically sticking your heads in the sand. And people that seriously feel that way don't understand the dynamics involved.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

But do we REALLY have to go down this freakin path again?!!!

Remember how many people didn't think Julian Peterson was worth $50 mil? He got it didn't he? And I don't remember a Sheattle fan complaining that he wasn't worth it.

People really just need to stop. If Manny goes he goes. But if we can retain him then dammit, do so. Our team needs to stop pissing their own players off. Seriously. How do you get big name FA players?

SHOW THEM THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN. Duh.

But I have faith in Parage to get the guy extended and for a reasonable guaranteed amount. Cause that's what the issue is. It's not 4, 14, 40 or even $400 million. That's nothing more than a number that NEVER gets played for. It's very rare for a player to get 1/2 of the value of the contract in the NFL. If you know and understand this then WTF are you bishin about?

~Ceadder

You can't compare Lawson to Peterson. Remember Peterson was franchised several times before they let him walk. Manny has never held that sort of status. He has been a starter because he is simply the best we could get. Now, that it's time for an extension all signs point to him not being here next year. Not a real shocker.

I can't? JP was not the Pass Rusher that we wanted him to be when he was here and people said he wasn't a 3-4 LB. Ummm he proved us wrong on that didn't he? He was replaceable wasn't he?

Now we're right back in the same position again. Only Pass covering LBs' are alot harder to find than an edge Rushing LB. So tell me how I can't compare them? You can say what you want about the Franchise, but there is no guarantee that there will even be a Tag after the next CBA. And next year being an uncapped year, the tag is not applicable either.

So please I really would like to know how I can't compare JP and Manny? Shoot Manny is faster than JP, plays the Run better and does get to the QB.

I think that saying that he's not worth $15 mil guaranteed is tantamount to myopically sticking your heads in the sand. And people that seriously feel that way don't understand the dynamics involved.

~Ceadder

I don't think you can compare what value the team had on Peterson and what the team has on Manny. Manny has never established himself and did have a serious knee injury. I just don't think the league see's Manny in the same light that they held for Peterson even though Peterson himself had a serious achilles injury. Manny is just not as dynamic as Peterson was prior to the injuries.

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
I can definitely tell it's the off season. You're all ready to walk away from a guy that for all intents and purposes makes our Run Defense tick and is one of the 3 to 4 guys around the Opposing QB to finish off plays.

I think that you guys MISS the point.

If he wants $40 mil then in REALITY he's wanting at least $15 million guaranteed. Is he worth that now?

If he is then please STUFF the crazy talk, cause you didn't get it before hand.

To me he's worth 15 mil guaranteed. What is Bam Bam's guaranteed amount? Right. Nuff said.

~Ceadder

Your MISSING the point.....we can't keep everybody...and the REALITY is some guys are going to leave via Free agency and right NOW it looks like Manny can be one of those guys. Not BECAUSE I SAID IT but because THE TEAM IS SHOWING THAT BASED ON THERE ACTIONS.

But you know everything and it's blasphemy to think we would not resign a few players....

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

But do we REALLY have to go down this freakin path again?!!!

Remember how many people didn't think Julian Peterson was worth $50 mil? He got it didn't he? And I don't remember a Sheattle fan complaining that he wasn't worth it.

People really just need to stop. If Manny goes he goes. But if we can retain him then dammit, do so. Our team needs to stop pissing their own players off. Seriously. How do you get big name FA players?

SHOW THEM THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN. Duh.

But I have faith in Parage to get the guy extended and for a reasonable guaranteed amount. Cause that's what the issue is. It's not 4, 14, 40 or even $400 million. That's nothing more than a number that NEVER gets played for. It's very rare for a player to get 1/2 of the value of the contract in the NFL. If you know and understand this then WTF are you bishin about?

~Ceadder

Your comparing Peterson to Manny??? What in the hell are you watching LOL.....so manny's going to get 50 mil......

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

But do we REALLY have to go down this freakin path again?!!!

Remember how many people didn't think Julian Peterson was worth $50 mil? He got it didn't he? And I don't remember a Sheattle fan complaining that he wasn't worth it.

People really just need to stop. If Manny goes he goes. But if we can retain him then dammit, do so. Our team needs to stop pissing their own players off. Seriously. How do you get big name FA players?

SHOW THEM THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN. Duh.

But I have faith in Parage to get the guy extended and for a reasonable guaranteed amount. Cause that's what the issue is. It's not 4, 14, 40 or even $400 million. That's nothing more than a number that NEVER gets played for. It's very rare for a player to get 1/2 of the value of the contract in the NFL. If you know and understand this then WTF are you bishin about?

~Ceadder

You can't compare Lawson to Peterson. Remember Peterson was franchised several times before they let him walk. Manny has never held that sort of status. He has been a starter because he is simply the best we could get. Now, that it's time for an extension all signs point to him not being here next year. Not a real shocker.

I can't? JP was not the Pass Rusher that we wanted him to be when he was here and people said he wasn't a 3-4 LB. Ummm he proved us wrong on that didn't he? He was replaceable wasn't he?

Now we're right back in the same position again. Only Pass covering LBs' are alot harder to find than an edge Rushing LB. So tell me how I can't compare them? You can say what you want about the Franchise, but there is no guarantee that there will even be a Tag after the next CBA. And next year being an uncapped year, the tag is not applicable either.

So please I really would like to know how I can't compare JP and Manny? Shoot Manny is faster than JP, plays the Run better and does get to the QB.

I think that saying that he's not worth $15 mil guaranteed is tantamount to myopically sticking your heads in the sand. And people that seriously feel that way don't understand the dynamics involved.

~Ceadder

I don't think you can compare what value the team had on Peterson and what the team has on Manny. Manny has never established himself and did have a serious knee injury. I just don't think the league see's Manny in the same light that they held for Peterson even though Peterson himself had a serious achilles injury. Manny is just not as dynamic as Peterson was prior to the injuries.

He's exactly the same. You can catch lightning once. But twice? And this team has DONE exactly that on more than a couple occasions.

And just because you don't see anything "being" done, does not mean that the team is not working on something with Manny's agent.

For example, did you know that Parage and Willis's agent were in talks over an extension 1 year before one was required? No, you didn't. Nobdoy knew. All I knew was I woke up got online and there it was.

So I don't understand how Manny is "done" so far as management is concerned. He's DEFINITELY not as replaceable as people are making him out to be. Sorry if you can't see that.

Remember Garcia? He was REAL easy to replace, now wasn't he? I'm sick and tired of seeing this team take one step forward and ten steps back. If you have a replacement cut the guy. If not then don't ever say the word "replaceable". I absolutely hate, I mean HATE seeing players cut when we don't have their replacement. Granted some of that was due to the Cap. But, we DON'T have a Cap this year. If you don't try to get to the Big Dance every season then why even sign Bam Bam to a $50 million deal? Sure money is nice but the man is driven and wants to go to the post season. Not taking care of the core players(stop kidding yourself Manny is a core player) around him basically says that we aren't committed to the same things.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

But do we REALLY have to go down this freakin path again?!!!

Remember how many people didn't think Julian Peterson was worth $50 mil? He got it didn't he? And I don't remember a Sheattle fan complaining that he wasn't worth it.

People really just need to stop. If Manny goes he goes. But if we can retain him then dammit, do so. Our team needs to stop pissing their own players off. Seriously. How do you get big name FA players?

SHOW THEM THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN. Duh.

But I have faith in Parage to get the guy extended and for a reasonable guaranteed amount. Cause that's what the issue is. It's not 4, 14, 40 or even $400 million. That's nothing more than a number that NEVER gets played for. It's very rare for a player to get 1/2 of the value of the contract in the NFL. If you know and understand this then WTF are you bishin about?

~Ceadder

You can't compare Lawson to Peterson. Remember Peterson was franchised several times before they let him walk. Manny has never held that sort of status. He has been a starter because he is simply the best we could get. Now, that it's time for an extension all signs point to him not being here next year. Not a real shocker.

I can't? JP was not the Pass Rusher that we wanted him to be when he was here and people said he wasn't a 3-4 LB. Ummm he proved us wrong on that didn't he? He was replaceable wasn't he?

Now we're right back in the same position again. Only Pass covering LBs' are alot harder to find than an edge Rushing LB. So tell me how I can't compare them? You can say what you want about the Franchise, but there is no guarantee that there will even be a Tag after the next CBA. And next year being an uncapped year, the tag is not applicable either.

So please I really would like to know how I can't compare JP and Manny? Shoot Manny is faster than JP, plays the Run better and does get to the QB.

I think that saying that he's not worth $15 mil guaranteed is tantamount to myopically sticking your heads in the sand. And people that seriously feel that way don't understand the dynamics involved.

~Ceadder

I don't think you can compare what value the team had on Peterson and what the team has on Manny. Manny has never established himself and did have a serious knee injury. I just don't think the league see's Manny in the same light that they held for Peterson even though Peterson himself had a serious achilles injury. Manny is just not as dynamic as Peterson was prior to the injuries.

I agree with Ceadderman that Peterson sucked arse as a SAM in our 3-4. That was for a number of reasons though including the fact that we were just implementing it back there, Peterson was completely ineffective rushing the passer and the team resorted to using his athleticism more esp. in coverage. Naturally, Peterson left to (no surprise here) a 4-3 team where FOUR d-linemen were in front of him doing all the dirty work and he was allowed to be highlighted in Seattle's defense the way Willis is for us. Peterson proved that he was best suited for a 4-3 defense.

Lawson? He's known as a poor-man's version of JP. But he has never shown to be effective in a 3-4 save for setting the edge and playing the run well which is something any LB should be good at. Lawson isn't even an everydown LB either. Big difference there.

I hope for him personally he goes to a 4-3 defense where his athleticism can be highlighted and we gain an every down OLB that can rush the passer on every down.

Best of luck Manny! Hopefully when he leaves it will end up being win-win for everyone!

Originally posted by awol36:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by awol36:

Originally posted by wolfpack52:
Lawson stinks of a guy who has a monster year right before his contract expires. So hes going to have a huge year and its going to be impossible to resign him. But he will sign long term elsewhere and be mediocre.

yup i agree, he sets the edge real good on runs, if he gets his pass rush going. he could be a force.

At this point in his career he is what he is. he isn't gonna ever be a good pass rusher

How would we know when hes always ask to be in coverage.

He's hardly ever in coverage and on passing downs he's taken out of the game.

he is like an 83 if you play madden.

He can be replaced if he so choses to be a problem:

We have Brooks and Haralson and an up and coming Dyrell Briggs

How much should Manny be offered and accepted? I'd say a 5 year, 25 million $ contract... 10 mil guaranteed, and incentives packed in to the deal.

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

Do you know who lead the team in sacks last year Mayo?

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Probably nothing more than backup money.

-9fA

He has no pass rush value. Backup money for a backup at best.

Do you know who lead the team in sacks last year Mayo?

Man you know everything....