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susweel
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Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by susweel:
Manny is an average player, niners need to upgrade that position. Maybe they already told him he is not gonna be the starter next year and it pissed him off.
Entirely plausible.
I too have to roll my eyes at the homies who are constantly constantly characterizing him as a great coverage guy. These homies have to come up with something obscure to justify his presence because he sure hasn't lived up to his billing. I've watched him: Too many times he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off. After all this time, put a fork in it . . . it's done! Now if he was a sixth round pick . . . fine he's done ok. But for a first rounder: FAIL. Realistically, had he been a sixth rounder the team would have moved on and looked for a better solution.
Let him test the FA market. Guaranteed, at best he gets back-up money
Sorry to be so harsh, Manny. Great guy. You're doing your best and have put in the work. It's been nice knowin' ya.
Hope we get a monster pass rusher in the draft. Would be great!
Yah I totally agree. If he was such a great cover then why to they take him out on 3rd downs. Manny being a great coverage guy is a great niner myth.
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Mr.Mcgibblets
- Veteran
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- Posts: 15,079
- Manny's good at coverage, but this aspect of him can get exaggerated.
- As was said, this article is just a speculatory fill-in to pass the time of the boring offseason nothingness.
- It's no surprise that none of our rush LBs are getting huge sack numbers. Far too often does the QB get the pass out in 3 seconds to his first/2nd read. Why? Poor scheme... limited safety range, so you get poorly utilized CBs far too often.
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nvninerfan1
- Veteran
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This article has about as much validity as starting one that talks about "Gore will pout and not play hard if the 49ers draft a RB, even if it is a change of pace back'.
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Shorteous
- Veteran
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- Posts: 3,296
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by susweel:
Manny is an average player, niners need to upgrade that position. Maybe they already told him he is not gonna be the starter next year and it pissed him off.
Entirely plausible.
I too have to roll my eyes at the homies who are constantly constantly characterizing him as a great coverage guy. These homies have to come up with something obscure to justify his presence because he sure hasn't lived up to his billing. I've watched him: Too many times he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off. After all this time, put a fork in it . . . it's done! Now if he was a sixth round pick . . . fine he's done ok. But for a first rounder: FAIL. Realistically, had he been a sixth rounder the team would have moved on and looked for a better solution.
Let him test the FA market. Guaranteed, at best he gets back-up money
Sorry to be so harsh, Manny. Great guy. You're doing your best and have put in the work. It's been nice knowin' ya.
Hope we get a monster pass rusher in the draft. Would be great!
Yah I totally agree. If he was such a great cover then why to they take him out on 3rd downs. Manny being a great coverage guy is a great niner myth.
Because he's not better than a CB in coverage... really?
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Gavintech
- Veteran
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- Posts: 2,197
Originally posted by Shorteous:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by susweel:
Manny is an average player, niners need to upgrade that position. Maybe they already told him he is not gonna be the starter next year and it pissed him off.
Entirely plausible.
I too have to roll my eyes at the homies who are constantly constantly characterizing him as a great coverage guy. These homies have to come up with something obscure to justify his presence because he sure hasn't lived up to his billing. I've watched him: Too many times he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off. After all this time, put a fork in it . . . it's done! Now if he was a sixth round pick . . . fine he's done ok. But for a first rounder: FAIL. Realistically, had he been a sixth rounder the team would have moved on and looked for a better solution.
Let him test the FA market. Guaranteed, at best he gets back-up money
Sorry to be so harsh, Manny. Great guy. You're doing your best and have put in the work. It's been nice knowin' ya.
Hope we get a monster pass rusher in the draft. Would be great!
Yah I totally agree. If he was such a great cover then why to they take him out on 3rd downs. Manny being a great coverage guy is a great niner myth.
Because he's not better than a CB in coverage... really?
Seriously.
P.S. They didn't take him out on 3rd down as much last year / post-Nolan.
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Oakland-Niner
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- Posts: 24,062
I think Lawson's true talent is best suited for a 4-3 defense. He does everything very well, but sack the QB. He does get pressure but doesn't seem to have that final step.
I would love to keep him on the team and look for a pass rusher through Brooks, Haralson or a draft pick.
It's not like this team can afford two great pass rushing specialists and P.Willy anyway.
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NCommand
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FINALLY someone points out what I had pointed out last year. Manny has always been given a free pass with us. But last year, when it really counted and he was healthy and had no more excuses, Manny was STILL average at best.
He was better at play recognition, above-average at setting the edge (except against speedy backs of course), was great at TFL but below average at disengaging blocks behind the LOS and way below average in coverage (myth busted).
BUT, what I called out was his lackadaisical approach to the game UNTIL Brooks was given his 3rd down spot and excelled. THEN Manny had a great next game.
To me, that was all I needed to know about the guy as he (and is showing now with a no-show at the OTA's) is becoming the next A. Plummer. I believe the extension to Brooks was the TEAM showing confidence in his abilities and attitude and work ethic (and passion) that HE will be taking over for Lawson FT at some point (and Manny knows it)...either this year or next year when Manny is officially gone and goes to a 4-3 defense.
He has always been a square-peg, round-hole type of player for this team in a 3-4 and had to put on a LOT of weight/muscle just to be able to play at the NFL level (and that weight may have lead to his blown out knee too). He's just WAY too tall for an OLB, plays too high, has zero pass rush ability (one-dimensional as well) and that was WITH a full year of only having to focus on the pass rush and not pass coverage.
Face it people...he's a decent 3-4 player with motivation issues. I have always compared him to Julian Peterson when he played in our 3-4 (average at best); but like Peterson, if he goes to a 4-3 defense, has that good and active FOUR d-line in front of him and is highlighted and freed up (ala Peterson, Willis, R. Lewis, etc.) he will play well. So that said, he will probably shine on another team's 4-3 defense as an OLB but he won't with us, IMHO.
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NCommand
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Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by susweel:
Manny is an average player, niners need to upgrade that position. Maybe they already told him he is not gonna be the starter next year and it pissed him off.
Entirely plausible.
I too have to roll my eyes at the homies who are constantly constantly characterizing him as a great coverage guy. These homies have to come up with something obscure to justify his presence because he sure hasn't lived up to his billing. I've watched him: Too many times he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off. After all this time, put a fork in it . . . it's done! Now if he was a sixth round pick . . . fine he's done ok. But for a first rounder: FAIL. Realistically, had he been a sixth rounder the team would have moved on and looked for a better solution.
Let him test the FA market. Guaranteed, at best he gets back-up money
Sorry to be so harsh, Manny. Great guy. You're doing your best and have put in the work. It's been nice knowin' ya.
Hope we get a monster pass rusher in the draft. Would be great!
It's ridiculous to say letting a guy that does his job very well is a good idea. He's not a monster passrusher but that is not his #1 priority (that would be Haralson's). That being said he's in the backfield a lot creating pressure and getting TFL's. He also rarely lets running plays around his side of the field go for a gain. Either by not letting the runner turn the corner so Willis or a DB can come up and make the tackle or by making the tackle himself (or forcing the RB out of bounds, which doesn't show up on Manny's stat sheet).
And yes, he IS good in coverage. He's no Champ Bailey but he's a linebacker, he's not supposed to be. Compared to many other starters that play his position he is MUCH better than they are in coverage.
Don't forget, he still lead the team in sacks, a team that was near the top of the league in sacks overall in 2009, when he was not even close to a full time passrusher.
Good effort-post but totally inaccurate esp. for last year.
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BigBug415
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Originally posted by 23zack80:
Manny is huge in run support. He sets the edge better than most linebackers in the league. He is a very good first and second down OLB in the base defense but he is not an elite pass rusher. Unfortunately, someone will overpay for him after this season and it probably wont be the 49ers. I would love for him to stay here and continue to be a very important part of this team but he will most likely go where the money is.
I agree.
I don't understand all the Manny hate. I think he's much better than Haralson, and way more versatile and valuable than Brooks.
If we let him walk it will be a bad move.
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NCommand
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Originally posted by BigBug415:
Originally posted by 23zack80:
Manny is huge in run support. He sets the edge better than most linebackers in the league. He is a very good first and second down OLB in the base defense but he is not an elite pass rusher. Unfortunately, someone will overpay for him after this season and it probably wont be the 49ers. I would love for him to stay here and continue to be a very important part of this team but he will most likely go where the money is.
I agree.
I don't understand all the Manny hate. I think he's much better than Haralson, and way more versatile and valuable than Brooks.
If we let him walk it will be a bad move.
Why is when a player on our team is objectively looked at (and he isn't seem as a HOF player), it's "hating" on him.
Niner fans used to represent class, passion and knew how to spot a winner a mile away esp. given the history this RARE organization has. Nobody is HATING on Manny or any other player when they point out educated opinions.
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susweel
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by BigBug415:
Originally posted by 23zack80:
Manny is huge in run support. He sets the edge better than most linebackers in the league. He is a very good first and second down OLB in the base defense but he is not an elite pass rusher. Unfortunately, someone will overpay for him after this season and it probably wont be the 49ers. I would love for him to stay here and continue to be a very important part of this team but he will most likely go where the money is.
I agree.
I don't understand all the Manny hate. I think he's much better than Haralson, and way more versatile and valuable than Brooks.
If we let him walk it will be a bad move.
Why is when a player on our team is objectively looked at (and he isn't seem as a HOF player), it's "hating" on him.
Niner fans used to represent class, passion and knew how to spot a winner a mile away esp. given the history this RARE organization has. Nobody is HATING on Manny or any other player when they point out educated opinions.
Its ok NC, in ninertalk if you speak the truth about a player its considered hating.
Im considered the biggest hater around.
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NCommand
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Originally posted by susweel:
Its ok NC, in ninertalk if you speak the truth about a player its considered hating.
Im considered the biggest hater around.
LMAO! Given our record over the years, we should probably be "hating" a lot more then "we" do then. Haha
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NineFourNiner
- Best Lawyer Ever
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- Posts: 64,464
Originally posted by NCommand:
Face it people...he's a decent 3-4 player with motivation issues.
Source? I've never heard any knock on ML's work ethic before.