The Purpose of "Building Through the Draft"...

Originally posted by ZRF80:
For some odd reason, Ninerbrass (along with fans) are under the impression that you build, and therefore win, through the draft. What they fail to acknowledge is that the draft serves 2 purposes....


1) It gives you a foundation to work with. In essence, after the DErik and TDon era, we did well trying to shore up additional draft picks and adding young talent to the team. Since we had gutted the roster for salary cap purposes, we had no option but to start from square one. Therefore, the draft is the prime opportunity to build from the bottom up, and set a foundation on which to build upon.

2) It gives you young players that you can develop to replace older worn out players. Key example: Aaron Rodgers replacing Brett Favre in GB. The draft is a wonderful way of keeping your team "young" and "fresh". For one, you can rotate your new players with the old ones without losing a step. The team still stays competitive, and it allows the young players to get on field experience. Two, it allows the veteran players to mentor the young ones, and teach them techniques that may or may not be taught through training camps and coaching schemes.

It irks me when Niner fans use the "we'll build through the draft" excuse on a team that is on the brink of becoming competitive. For one, we've already set the foundation on which this team can excel. Probowl players fill key roster spots (RB, TE, CB, LB, etc.) The majority of these players are young, yet developed. They're ready to take it to the next step; all we lack are a few key roster additions to bump us over the edge.

A lot of ya talk about drafting olineman in the first round, etc. etc. As if those guys are going to come in and make us an instant top 10 o-line in 2010. Sorry folks not gonna happen. So why bother ? Why not go out and pick up the FA we need to get us over the top. You dont have to necessarily overpay. No one's asking for JPeppers. But there are options available, yet our front office wont bite.

Why not ?

Cause we build through the draft. Keep that up, and we'll be building for a very LONG time.

Exactly what FA options are out there that are not overpriced that will "get us over the top" without overpaying?

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Method:
Trade our pick for Jared Gaither (even though you were in a thread saying not to?). WTF?

It would be a good move dude. The guy is a very good T who is huge and can play both spots and he's YOUNG. We aren't going to draft a RT better than that. 24 year old starter who can pass protect and be a road grader is pretty much everything you're asking for and more from a rookie mid 1st.

I know good teams DO build through the draft but then when they get to where we are now, they take a next leap by signing good players. Look at the 94 9ers, we couldn't get past the cowboys, we had drafted a bunch of our guys(Rice, Eric Davis, Watters, OLine guys, etc.), so then we used FA to bring in guys like Deion and Norton. Not only did it help us it also made our competition(the cows) weaker by taking one of their guys. Or look at the saints, they had an explosive offense, good coaching, but they needed help on D. So what do they do? They got out and pick up Sharper, they used FA to get their franchise QB 4 years earlier, they used FA to pick up Jabari Greer, they used trade for Shockey to give Brees another playmaker, and they used FA for Vilma. Multiple significant defensive players for them were FAs they picked up. Or the Ravens, they already had Ray Lewis, but they used FA to get 2 more guys who wound up helping them win the superbowl in Rod Woodson and Sterling Sharpe. Or the NY Giants when they won it with Plax, Pierce, Fred Robbins, etc.

I mean we already have guys we've built through the draft with. Willis, Davis, Crabtree, Staley, etc. If we got 2-3 more really good players, we could be a playoff team for sure. Then you get depth in the draft. Heck we could have a really dominant D if we went and picked up Sharper, then we drafted one of the corners in the 2nd or if we got Joe Haden. Our running game would be sick if we got Gaither and our QB would have a lot more time on some of these plays. It would help everyone on our team. And we would still have a pick in every flippin round to build through the draft with.

You're talking apples and oranges. Yes, the 1994 49ers went out and got the final pieces needed to get past the Cowboys but that team was a LOT closer than this one is. The Cowboys likely were the only team better than the 49ers leading up to the 1994 season and had a HOF QB at his peak. This team hasn't been to the playoffs in 7 years and remains unsure of its longterm QB situation.

In terms of the Saints, they were very good on offense but needed help on defense.They did sign Sharper but it wasn't to a huge deal. There were no other big ticket FA's signed on defense. Their biggest addition was getting Greg Williams as their DC. But, again, the Saints had an elite QB playing at his peak and had recently at least been to the playoffs.

Yeah but we are like the Saints were on defense kind of, with our cornerstone player and a surrounding cast. We're more like the BMore Ravens when they added Rod Woodson. Their offense wasn't good at all either, but they added enough to make the area they were good dominant and they added enough to make the area where they were horrible(offense) mediocre. I mean if you added Sharper to our team and had him patrolling back there with Goldson, than you find a CB in the draft who can cover the slot guys, we don't really have any weaknesses on the D. Then on O, if our offense gets the ball back enough times, with Crabby and VD and Gore, we are going to score some points. Mainly we need to upgrade the OLine and get another WR on O, or upgrade the OL and get a new FB for the run.

We have minor needs on O but we have 3 good weapons and our QB showed he can put some points on the board last year if he gets the ball back enough times. Or another guy we could go after is Stephen Neal or Bobbie Williams, because our 2 OL weaknesses are Baas and Snyder. So we could get a LG. But no, Scott is sitting back jerking off in his chair paying David Carr 7 million dollars while our players openly question what the hell he is doing.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Method:
Trade our pick for Jared Gaither (even though you were in a thread saying not to?). WTF?

It would be a good move dude. The guy is a very good T who is huge and can play both spots and he's YOUNG. We aren't going to draft a RT better than that. 24 year old starter who can pass protect and be a road grader is pretty much everything you're asking for and more from a rookie mid 1st.

I know good teams DO build through the draft but then when they get to where we are now, they take a next leap by signing good players. Look at the 94 9ers, we couldn't get past the cowboys, we had drafted a bunch of our guys(Rice, Eric Davis, Watters, OLine guys, etc.), so then we used FA to bring in guys like Deion and Norton. Not only did it help us it also made our competition(the cows) weaker by taking one of their guys. Or look at the saints, they had an explosive offense, good coaching, but they needed help on D. So what do they do? They got out and pick up Sharper, they used FA to get their franchise QB 4 years earlier, they used FA to pick up Jabari Greer, they used trade for Shockey to give Brees another playmaker, and they used FA for Vilma. Multiple significant defensive players for them were FAs they picked up. Or the Ravens, they already had Ray Lewis, but they used FA to get 2 more guys who wound up helping them win the superbowl in Rod Woodson and Sterling Sharpe. Or the NY Giants when they won it with Plax, Pierce, Fred Robbins, etc.

I mean we already have guys we've built through the draft with. Willis, Davis, Crabtree, Staley, etc. If we got 2-3 more really good players, we could be a playoff team for sure. Then you get depth in the draft. Heck we could have a really dominant D if we went and picked up Sharper, then we drafted one of the corners in the 2nd or if we got Joe Haden. Our running game would be sick if we got Gaither and our QB would have a lot more time on some of these plays. It would help everyone on our team. And we would still have a pick in every flippin round to build through the draft with.

You're talking apples and oranges. Yes, the 1994 49ers went out and got the final pieces needed to get past the Cowboys but that team was a LOT closer than this one is. The Cowboys likely were the only team better than the 49ers leading up to the 1994 season and had a HOF QB at his peak. This team hasn't been to the playoffs in 7 years and remains unsure of its longterm QB situation.

In terms of the Saints, they were very good on offense but needed help on defense.They did sign Sharper but it wasn't to a huge deal. There were no other big ticket FA's signed on defense. Their biggest addition was getting Greg Williams as their DC. But, again, the Saints had an elite QB playing at his peak and had recently at least been to the playoffs.

Yeah but we are like the Saints were on defense kind of, with our cornerstone player and a surrounding cast. We're more like the BMore Ravens when they added Rod Woodson. Their offense wasn't good at all either, but they added enough to make the area they were good dominant and they added enough to make the area where they were horrible(offense) mediocre. I mean if you added Sharper to our team and had him patrolling back there with Goldson, than you find a CB in the draft who can cover the slot guys, we don't really have any weaknesses on the D. Then on O, if our offense gets the ball back enough times, with Crabby and VD and Gore, we are going to score some points. Mainly we need to upgrade the OLine and get another WR on O, or upgrade the OL and get a new FB for the run.

We have minor needs on O but we have 3 good weapons and our QB showed he can put some points on the board last year if he gets the ball back enough times. Or another guy we could go after is Stephen Neal or Bobbie Williams, because our 2 OL weaknesses are Baas and Snyder. So we could get a LG. But no, Scott is sitting back jerking off in his chair paying David Carr 7 million dollars while our players openly question what the hell he is doing.

Wait...so now you're saying the 49ers current defense is Darren Sharper away from being a historically good defense, which is what the Ravens were? Really?

And, you missed the point on the Saints, they had been to the playoffs recently. They had an All-Pro QB. Sharper helped but Gregg Williams was their best addition. The Saints were a lot closer than this 49ers team is...now if you take Brees off the Saints and put him on the 49ers, then you might have an argument about the 49ers being just a player or 2 away.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Sunoco, we could have had Oher last yr but we take a guy who sits out half a yr unsigned, and then fans and coaches wonder why the QB doesn't have time to pass...

Since when is 5 games considered half a year?

I stopped reading after that bullsh*t.

Originally posted by Method:

Originally posted by Mister49:

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Method:
Trade our pick for Jared Gaither (even though you were in a thread saying not to?). WTF?

It would be a good move dude. The guy is a very good T who is huge and can play both spots and he's YOUNG. We aren't going to draft a RT better than that. 24 year old starter who can pass protect and be a road grader is pretty much everything you're asking for and more from a rookie mid 1st.

I know good teams DO build through the draft but then when they get to where we are now, they take a next leap by signing good players. Look at the 94 9ers, we couldn't get past the cowboys, we had drafted a bunch of our guys(Rice, Eric Davis, Watters, OLine guys, etc.), so then we used FA to bring in guys like Deion and Norton. Not only did it help us it also made our competition(the cows) weaker by taking one of their guys. Or look at the saints, they had an explosive offense, good coaching, but they needed help on D. So what do they do? They got out and pick up Sharper, they used FA to get their franchise QB 4 years earlier, they used FA to pick up Jabari Greer, they used trade for Shockey to give Brees another playmaker, and they used FA for Vilma. Multiple significant defensive players for them were FAs they picked up. Or the Ravens, they already had Ray Lewis, but they used FA to get 2 more guys who wound up helping them win the superbowl in Rod Woodson and Sterling Sharpe. Or the NY Giants when they won it with Plax, Pierce, Fred Robbins, etc.

I mean we already have guys we've built through the draft with. Willis, Davis, Crabtree, Staley, etc. If we got 2-3 more really good players, we could be a playoff team for sure. Then you get depth in the draft. Heck we could have a really dominant D if we went and picked up Sharper, then we drafted one of the corners in the 2nd or if we got Joe Haden. Our running game would be sick if we got Gaither and our QB would have a lot more time on some of these plays. It would help everyone on our team. And we would still have a pick in every flippin round to build through the draft with.

Well said. To take the next step most teams find players from sources other than the draft.

You make a lot of sense!!!

I know. What I meant was, ZRF is making this post about trying to make moves in FA not through the draft; in another post he said that he doesn't want to trade our #1 for Jared Gaither. I should have re-worded what I said.

I didnt necessarily say I didnt want to trade our number 1 for Gaithers. What I questioned was using a 1st rounder on a guy that has never made the probowl and is considered a "?" by a lot of his team's fans. My point was that if we were going to shop around one of our first round picks, couldnt we acquire a better "impact" player that has proven his worth eg Marshall, McNabb....albeit not a position of need ?

With that said, I would prefer that we pick up Gaithers from Baltimore than take a risk on a rookie that may or may not pan out (history will tell us that most rookies dont).

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by kem99:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Method:
Trade our pick for Jared Gaither (even though you were in a thread saying not to?). WTF?

It would be a good move dude. The guy is a very good T who is huge and can play both spots and he's YOUNG. We aren't going to draft a RT better than that. 24 year old starter who can pass protect and be a road grader is pretty much everything you're asking for and more from a rookie mid 1st.

I know good teams DO build through the draft but then when they get to where we are now, they take a next leap by signing good players. Look at the 94 9ers, we couldn't get past the cowboys, we had drafted a bunch of our guys(Rice, Eric Davis, Watters, OLine guys, etc.), so then we used FA to bring in guys like Deion and Norton. Not only did it help us it also made our competition(the cows) weaker by taking one of their guys. Or look at the saints, they had an explosive offense, good coaching, but they needed help on D. So what do they do? They got out and pick up Sharper, they used FA to get their franchise QB 4 years earlier, they used FA to pick up Jabari Greer, they used trade for Shockey to give Brees another playmaker, and they used FA for Vilma. Multiple significant defensive players for them were FAs they picked up. Or the Ravens, they already had Ray Lewis, but they used FA to get 2 more guys who wound up helping them win the superbowl in Rod Woodson and Sterling Sharpe. Or the NY Giants when they won it with Plax, Pierce, Fred Robbins, etc.

I mean we already have guys we've built through the draft with. Willis, Davis, Crabtree, Staley, etc. If we got 2-3 more really good players, we could be a playoff team for sure. Then you get depth in the draft. Heck we could have a really dominant D if we went and picked up Sharper, then we drafted one of the corners in the 2nd or if we got Joe Haden. Our running game would be sick if we got Gaither and our QB would have a lot more time on some of these plays. It would help everyone on our team. And we would still have a pick in every flippin round to build through the draft with.

You're talking apples and oranges. Yes, the 1994 49ers went out and got the final pieces needed to get past the Cowboys but that team was a LOT closer than this one is. The Cowboys likely were the only team better than the 49ers leading up to the 1994 season and had a HOF QB at his peak. This team hasn't been to the playoffs in 7 years and remains unsure of its longterm QB situation.

In terms of the Saints, they were very good on offense but needed help on defense.They did sign Sharper but it wasn't to a huge deal. There were no other big ticket FA's signed on defense. Their biggest addition was getting Greg Williams as their DC. But, again, the Saints had an elite QB playing at his peak and had recently at least been to the playoffs.

Yeah but we are like the Saints were on defense kind of, with our cornerstone player and a surrounding cast. We're more like the BMore Ravens when they added Rod Woodson. Their offense wasn't good at all either, but they added enough to make the area they were good dominant and they added enough to make the area where they were horrible(offense) mediocre. I mean if you added Sharper to our team and had him patrolling back there with Goldson, than you find a CB in the draft who can cover the slot guys, we don't really have any weaknesses on the D. Then on O, if our offense gets the ball back enough times, with Crabby and VD and Gore, we are going to score some points. Mainly we need to upgrade the OLine and get another WR on O, or upgrade the OL and get a new FB for the run.

We have minor needs on O but we have 3 good weapons and our QB showed he can put some points on the board last year if he gets the ball back enough times. Or another guy we could go after is Stephen Neal or Bobbie Williams, because our 2 OL weaknesses are Baas and Snyder. So we could get a LG. But no, Scott is sitting back jerking off in his chair paying David Carr 7 million dollars while our players openly question what the hell he is doing.

Wait...so now you're saying the 49ers current defense is Darren Sharper away from being a historically good defense, which is what the Ravens were? Really?

And, you missed the point on the Saints, they had been to the playoffs recently. They had an All-Pro QB. Sharper helped but Gregg Williams was their best addition. The Saints were a lot closer than this 49ers team is...now if you take Brees off the Saints and put him on the 49ers, then you might have an argument about the 49ers being just a player or 2 away.

We're not as close as last year's Saints or the 1994 49ers, but we're close enough to be competitive in the NFC. At this point, our only hope of making the playoffs this season is by hoping that Zona falters based on its FA loses, and Seattle doesnt gain anything from free agency.

For a team that is supposedly on the rise, it wouldnt hurt to go out and pick up some players that could have instant impact on the roster, and not serve as backups.........Carr and Fargas.

I pretty much agree with building through the draft, but adding an O-lineman instead of Carr, would have made much more sense.

Well, that's a minute of my life I'll never, ever get back.

Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Well, that's a minute of my life I'll never, ever get back.

Your loss and our gain.....

the obvious needs through the draft are return man speed and db speed. with a return game that lost us two games and a backfield that was our only non championship component of an otherwise stellar d our need for speed couldn't b more blatant. soo MANY of our top o line picks have brought us little or no relief. i.e get a vet through free agency NOW or else. watching falcon rodey white ditch our entire backfield was bad but watching their #2 reciever pass all of our db 's to lay a block on nate (our shut down free agent ''awnser'')was insulting.when was the time we drafted 1 or two on a saftey or corner. remember the last saftey we drafted from usc worked out ok huh. in this INCREASINGLY pass happy league saftey has become of paramount importance .without on we may very well get into the playoffs but if we want to develop our team as one to compete with specific squads deep in the playoffs(eagles saints colts pats vikings...) the Best Mays be a Haden by Oline lovers but with All of our recent top Oline picks NONE HAVE MADE A PROBOWL.......JUST THINK SAFTEY FIRST

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Well, that's a minute of my life I'll never, ever get back.

Your loss and our gain.....

Go away troll, and stop starting these moronic threads.

Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Well, that's a minute of my life I'll never, ever get back.

Your loss and our gain.....

Go away troll, and stop starting these moronic threads.

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Well, that's a minute of my life I'll never, ever get back.

Your loss and our gain.....

Go away troll, and stop starting these moronic threads.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Method:
Trade our pick for Jared Gaither (even though you were in a thread saying not to?). WTF?

It would be a good move dude. The guy is a very good T who is huge and can play both spots and he's YOUNG. We aren't going to draft a RT better than that. 24 year old starter who can pass protect and be a road grader is pretty much everything you're asking for and more from a rookie mid 1st.

I know good teams DO build through the draft but then when they get to where we are now, they take a next leap by signing good players. Look at the 94 9ers, we couldn't get past the cowboys, we had drafted a bunch of our guys(Rice, Eric Davis, Watters, OLine guys, etc.), so then we used FA to bring in guys like Deion and Norton. Not only did it help us it also made our competition(the cows) weaker by taking one of their guys. Or look at the saints, they had an explosive offense, good coaching, but they needed help on D. So what do they do? They got out and pick up Sharper, they used FA to get their franchise QB 4 years earlier, they used FA to pick up Jabari Greer, they used trade for Shockey to give Brees another playmaker, and they used FA for Vilma. Multiple significant defensive players for them were FAs they picked up. Or the Ravens, they already had Ray Lewis, but they used FA to get 2 more guys who wound up helping them win the superbowl in Rod Woodson and Sterling Sharpe. Or the NY Giants when they won it with Plax, Pierce, Fred Robbins, etc.

I mean we already have guys we've built through the draft with. Willis, Davis, Crabtree, Staley, etc. If we got 2-3 more really good players, we could be a playoff team for sure. Then you get depth in the draft. Heck we could have a really dominant D if we went and picked up Sharper, then we drafted one of the corners in the 2nd or if we got Joe Haden. Our running game would be sick if we got Gaither and our QB would have a lot more time on some of these plays. It would help everyone on our team. And we would still have a pick in every flippin round to build through the draft with.

Go with the younger cheaper with less wear and tear on his body rookie! Even though I like Gaithers just not enough to give a first rounder for him!

In 81 before our first SB, we had some VERY good draft choices with Walsh; BUT that fall we added Hacksaw and Fred Dean. Those two player NOT taken in our Draft was huge for that years SB! A team has to get talent by any means possible. If we could get ONE key URFA this off season for one of our dire needs, it would free us up to address other needs.