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Niners willing to trade Aubrayo Franklin for a 1st round pick

Originally posted by kidash:
Originally posted by btwagner:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by btwagner:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by btwagner:
I would be willing to trade him for a 2nd rounder....Then with the 2 #2's if there is a guy they have rated as a 1st rd talent that may be there in late 20's move back up into the 1st.......

A second round pick? You have to be kidding me. Who is going to start at NT this year, then? Sopoaga? Balmer?

This draft has several NTs who could start...They would draft his replacement....If there is one position coach who is good it is the DL coach...

But why trade him? Particularly just for a 2nd? Are we fireselling our team? Trade a proven quantity, who had a damn good season, for the chance to maybe draft a guy who may be a bust or if we are lucky in two years time may develop into a player who is nearly as good.

Um, and the justification is what?

I do not consider a guy who will be 30 and has one good year in a contract year"proven"....There are always risk/rewards associated in doing any trade....
My argument is that if the team does not feel it will be able to resign Franklin or he would rather play back east somewhere and you are going to possibly lose him after his franchise year is over, why not trade him because of the NT's that are avilable in this years draft. Yes there will be a learning curve, but with one of the tiop DL coaches in the game, and players like Justin Smith to help the rookie why not....All they may be doing by not trading is delaying the inevitable as he leaves next year.

I posted stats that showed he actually got better the longer he got with us! Although you're right that he is in his (almost) 30, the guy can still play at a top level for many years, so why lose a clog in the middle for someone unproven? IF, and I say if, we can sign Franklin to a long term that doesn't hurt the club, why not use this franchise tag to see what he wants? He already stated that he want's to stay!

And furthermore, let's say he does get traded for a first rounder, would you really bank on someone unproven with all the cash that will be paid to them vs. someone who we know can do their job and do them well????

- 98

Last I read he wanted to test the open market, maybe that has changed because that was late in the season. I am only saying that if his demands are too much and/or they cant structure the deal good enough for the team then trade him. I am not talking about trading him just to trade him. Going off the fact that he is from back east and had said previously he wanted to test the market...
Originally posted by kidash:
Originally posted by btwagner:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by btwagner:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by btwagner:
I would be willing to trade him for a 2nd rounder....Then with the 2 #2's if there is a guy they have rated as a 1st rd talent that may be there in late 20's move back up into the 1st.......

A second round pick? You have to be kidding me. Who is going to start at NT this year, then? Sopoaga? Balmer?

This draft has several NTs who could start...They would draft his replacement....If there is one position coach who is good it is the DL coach...

But why trade him? Particularly just for a 2nd? Are we fireselling our team? Trade a proven quantity, who had a damn good season, for the chance to maybe draft a guy who may be a bust or if we are lucky in two years time may develop into a player who is nearly as good.

Um, and the justification is what?

I do not consider a guy who will be 30 and has one good year in a contract year"proven"....There are always risk/rewards associated in doing any trade....
My argument is that if the team does not feel it will be able to resign Franklin or he would rather play back east somewhere and you are going to possibly lose him after his franchise year is over, why not trade him because of the NT's that are avilable in this years draft. Yes there will be a learning curve, but with one of the tiop DL coaches in the game, and players like Justin Smith to help the rookie why not....All they may be doing by not trading is delaying the inevitable as he leaves next year.

I posted stats that showed he actually got better the longer he got with us! Although you're right that he is in his (almost) 30, the guy can still play at a top level for many years, so why lose a clog in the middle for someone unproven? IF, and I say if, we can sign Franklin to a long term that doesn't hurt the club, why not use this franchise tag to see what he wants? He already stated that he want's to stay!

And furthermore, let's say he does get traded for a first rounder, would you really bank on someone unproven with all the cash that will be paid to them vs. someone who we know can do their job and do them well????

- 98

Not to mention, that he doesnt have a lot of wear and tear. He has only been a starter since he came to SF.
Trading him for a 2nd round pick and then packaging it to pick another NT? There is no guarentee that draft pick will work out (ie Balmer). While you say he is a one hit wonder, at least he hit once, however, your thinking is shallow, each year he has been here he has IMPROVED, then they simplified his assignment and voila.

All this is gonna do is set us back, we are on the cusp of making the playoffs, this move is not addition by subtraction. Its subtraction leading to more subraction. Though frankilin is 29 going on 30, he has not played that much, his body is fresh and should be good for another 3-4 years. Also that is why they tagged him to get an idea of what the market is on him. This way they won't overpay him. If someone wants to offer him a ridiculous deal THEN you let them have him and take their TWO FIRST ROUNDERS! My only concern with that is if it comes from a team that are super bowl contenders, then it will be low first round picks... at any rate 2nd round pick? You are not thinking and getting the most bang for your buck...don't be mad just go away stop trying to be a general manager, unless it is for one of our division foes.

People who want us to trade just so we can have more draft picks are so silly and foolish. Don't do just for the sake of doing, but because is necessary, this is completely unnecessary.

[ Edited by WildBill on Feb 24, 2010 at 14:25:29 ]
I wouldn't do it. We have been looking for a top NT via draft or free agency for years now. Now, we finally have one and we want to move him...no.
This would be dumb to do. He is a force and will play hard because he knows this is a team that has a VERY good chance to the make the playoffs next year. His play depends on his pay -- and if I were the niners, I would see how he is playing and then try to extend him halfway through the year based on performance and therefore be able to lock him up and if we're in the playoff hunt, getting $$$ won't stop him from playing hard -- in the end 99.99999% of these players play to win; excluding ppl like JaMarcus Russel.
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Originally posted by Joecool:
I wouldn't do it. We have been looking for a top NT via draft or free agency for years now. Now, we finally have one and we want to move him...no.

I couldn't agree more.

People keep saying we could take Dan Williams and plug him in to start right away....christ.

Raji was a higher rated NT prospect and though he performed decently, it took him awhile to get going and he was nowhere near as dominant as Franklin.

Also, the one year wonder talk is BS. While it has to be a concern, he has performed at a high level since Sing took over and we moved to more of a base 3-4. Moreover,Dan Williams wasn't lights out until this year, so he's a bit of a one year wonder himself...

I wouldn't be surprised if we took Franklin's replacement in this draft, and that includes us possibly using a 1st rounder on Williams, but we can't expect him to be ready next year. We need Franklin at least for one more season, and I wouldn't be against signing him to a long term deal.
Originally posted by kidash:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by kidash:


His stat has improved since he got with us. We have 2 first round pick, why trade a proven player with another pick which will cost us more (if within the first 15 spot)???

jussayin....

- 98

Because every player has a trade value and at 30 years old and playing well in a contract year, he's only proven he can be great during his contract year. Marques Douglas tore things up in his contract year also. What team does he play for now? Household name?

I think it's a very smart move. I always believe working to upgrade a spot with better talent - especially at the LOS - is something you always have to consider.

Always.

Uncapped year/ no CBA means that a longer deal can be signed for a better talented player.

Who???? I'm up for an upgrade but who would be a better player at NT that we can get and would also produce???

- 98

Not sure but I know the draft is stocked with DT who are more physically gifted than Franklin. Sure, I'd be willing to take a chance on a player who I could sign for 6 years, who could be as effective as Franklin PRIOR to his contract year - who could develop into a monster for MUCH less than we would pay for a 30 year old who has probably plateaued.

I'm just saying you have to consider it and it looks like the 49ers are doing that.

Let's be honest, the 49ers are not 1 or 2 years away from a championship. That is what we're playing for right? Sure Franklin-like players will take you to the play-offs. Deep into them? Championship material? No way. That kind of talent would demand a double-team EVERY down. As good as Franklin is, let's not over-estimate his talent here - he doesn't demand a double-team every down, even in his contract year.

[ Edited by NinerGM on Feb 24, 2010 at 15:42:45 ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by kidash:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by kidash:


His stat has improved since he got with us. We have 2 first round pick, why trade a proven player with another pick which will cost us more (if within the first 15 spot)???

jussayin....

- 98

Because every player has a trade value and at 30 years old and playing well in a contract year, he's only proven he can be great during his contract year. Marques Douglas tore things up in his contract year also. What team does he play for now? Household name?

I think it's a very smart move. I always believe working to upgrade a spot with better talent - especially at the LOS - is something you always have to consider.

Always.

Uncapped year/ no CBA means that a longer deal can be signed for a better talented player.

Who???? I'm up for an upgrade but who would be a better player at NT that we can get and would also produce???

- 98

Not sure but I know the draft is stocked with DT who are more physically gifted than Franklin. Sure, I'd be willing to take a chance on a player who I could sign for 6 years, who could be as effective as Franklin PRIOR to his contract year - who could develop into a monster for MUCH less than we would pay for a 30 year old who has probably plateaued.

I'm just saying you have to consider it and it looks like the 49ers are doing that.

Let's be honest, the 49ers are not 1 or 2 years away from a championship. That is what we're playing for right? Sure Franklin-like players will take you to the play-offs. Deep into them? Championship material? No way. That kind of talent would demand a double-team EVERY down. As good as Franklin is, let's not over-estimate his talent here - he doesn't demand a double-team every down, even in his contract year.

I know your line of thinking (or at least I am following your line of thinking) and have said that I am up for an upgrade but the underlined portion of your response is the KEY. As Joecool said, we've been looking for a NT for a while and have found one with Franklin only for us to let him walk away (trade)???

Not worth it, IMO... If the draft is lined with DL's as you stated, why not draft one at a later round (who'll also cost less) to groom? What's the difference???? We already have 2 First Round pick, we do not need another that will set us back financially.

- 98
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Not sure but I know the draft is stocked with DT who are more physically gifted than Franklin. Sure, I'd be willing to take a chance on a player who I could sign for 6 years, who could be as effective as Franklin PRIOR to his contract year - who could develop into a monster for MUCH less than we would pay for a 30 year old who has probably plateaued.

How can you know for sure they are more physically gifted! Look at how many so called beasts were pu$$ies after they were drafted. Which leads to the second question, how do you you know he has plateaued? Because he hit 30? You don't. there are too many coulda shoulda and didn't possibilities with this thinking. How many players have solid years into 30 years-lots. As old as Allen was when we signed him from the cowgirls he did wonderfully well. I tire evertime someone says thrash someone cause they are thrity or more, people need to take it on a case by case basis. We may not win the sup, but showing we can get to the playoffs and have a winning attitude and team will allow us to also attract more quality free agents when available, if they continually lose and rebuild, you won't get the right players in FA. All you need to do is look at the niners past.

Bill Walsh built thru the draft, thru free agency, and retaining players, even old ones like Russ Francis, Big Hands Johnson, Fred Dean. He didn't let people go unless he had someone he knew could step in. Ie freddie solomon wasn't let go even though they drafted rice until they knew rice could play after a season.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by kidash:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by kidash:


His stat has improved since he got with us. We have 2 first round pick, why trade a proven player with another pick which will cost us more (if within the first 15 spot)???

jussayin....

- 98

Because every player has a trade value and at 30 years old and playing well in a contract year, he's only proven he can be great during his contract year. Marques Douglas tore things up in his contract year also. What team does he play for now? Household name?

I think it's a very smart move. I always believe working to upgrade a spot with better talent - especially at the LOS - is something you always have to consider.

Always.

Uncapped year/ no CBA means that a longer deal can be signed for a better talented player.

Who???? I'm up for an upgrade but who would be a better player at NT that we can get and would also produce???

- 98

Not sure but I know the draft is stocked with DT who are more physically gifted than Franklin. Sure, I'd be willing to take a chance on a player who I could sign for 6 years, who could be as effective as Franklin PRIOR to his contract year - who could develop into a monster for MUCH less than we would pay for a 30 year old who has probably plateaued.

I'm just saying you have to consider it and it looks like the 49ers are doing that.

Let's be honest, the 49ers are not 1 or 2 years away from a championship. That is what we're playing for right? Sure Franklin-like players will take you to the play-offs. Deep into them? Championship material? No way. That kind of talent would demand a double-team EVERY down. As good as Franklin is, let's not over-estimate his talent here - he doesn't demand a double-team every down, even in his contract year.
Dude, our run D ended tied for 2nd in the league for fewest yards per carry (3.6). Baltimore's D averaged 3.4 for first place. What more do you want from the man? Are you saying that isn't Championship caliber?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Your argument is akin to saying Farrior (MLB for Pit) isn't as good as Willis, so lets look for someone else. He is a top tier NT, maybe not the best but up there. His positon is very difficult to find. I understand what you are saying but it's way too risky.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Feb 24, 2010 at 17:07:36 ]
i hope everyone knows that the uncapped year isnt going to mean anything as far as spending goes. almost every team, such as the Steelers have come out and stated, will more than likely be policing themselves and staying within the normal spending budget when a cap was in place.

maybe the Redskins and Cowboys spend big bucks, but theyve always done that, and it hasnt won them jack.

i think the uncapped year is getting WAY overblown. it wont be that big of a deal. what will suck, is no football in 2011, which is looking very likely to happen.
Franklin won't be going anywhere, and that is a good thing.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by kidash:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by kidash:


His stat has improved since he got with us. We have 2 first round pick, why trade a proven player with another pick which will cost us more (if within the first 15 spot)???

jussayin....

- 98

Because every player has a trade value and at 30 years old and playing well in a contract year, he's only proven he can be great during his contract year. Marques Douglas tore things up in his contract year also. What team does he play for now? Household name?

I think it's a very smart move. I always believe working to upgrade a spot with better talent - especially at the LOS - is something you always have to consider.

Always.

Uncapped year/ no CBA means that a longer deal can be signed for a better talented player.

Who???? I'm up for an upgrade but who would be a better player at NT that we can get and would also produce???

- 98

Not sure but I know the draft is stocked with DT who are more physically gifted than Franklin. Sure, I'd be willing to take a chance on a player who I could sign for 6 years, who could be as effective as Franklin PRIOR to his contract year - who could develop into a monster for MUCH less than we would pay for a 30 year old who has probably plateaued.

I'm just saying you have to consider it and it looks like the 49ers are doing that.

Let's be honest, the 49ers are not 1 or 2 years away from a championship. That is what we're playing for right? Sure Franklin-like players will take you to the play-offs. Deep into them? Championship material? No way. That kind of talent would demand a double-team EVERY down. As good as Franklin is, let's not over-estimate his talent here - he doesn't demand a double-team every down, even in his contract year.
Ask Patrick Willis if he agrees with you. Franklin is in there going against the center and a guard in almost every running play. They take him out on passing downs, so essentially, he is taking double teams A LOT more than he is being guarded by one.

The draft does not guarantee anything, and we know they have potential, but it is potential based on college performance. We have seen Franklin's potential based on NFL performance. Like I said before, a 30 year old Franklin is not the same as a 30 year old Casey Hampton. Franklin did not become a full-time starter until 3 or 4 seasons ago, so he has not been worn down like some of the other NTs out there. He has done everything to earn a contract from the 49ers, so what would letting him go tell the other guys who are waiting on contracts?
If someone makes a ridiculous offer, and we do get the two first rounders, then I would say go for it. If only for a first rounder this year, then they should not do it as they would probably just end up drafting a NT, that may or not pan out...
If they were re-building it would be a no brainer to trade him for a 1st. But they are not, so they won't.