Why where these players not tried as returners

I am seeing post after post about how the niners need to burn a first round pick on a return threat. While I understand the value of a return threat, why has the coaching staff fully exhausted the potential returners on the roster?

1. Jason Hill- 4.3 speed, listed as a return person in draft analysis. He is not one of the top 3 WR's, so why not use him as a returner???

2. Reggie Smith, safety, 3rd round pick, was a returner in college, why in gods name was he not look at for returning kicks?

3. Not on roster, but was, Kory Sheets draft analysis looks a lot like ones people want to burn a high pick on. He runs fast and was listed as a returner, why was he not given a shot?

The above aforementioned ALL in my opinion pose more of a threat than Delanie Walker or Michale Robinson or Arnaz Battle. If the coach's would have at least tried some of them as a KR or PR, maybe they would not have to burn a top round pick on a returner this year.

Just ventin.

same reason they let Rossum go and never give J.Hill a chance to show what he's got. Blind staff.

you know, i dont know. i thought reggie smith was a returner in college too. i dont get it.

just because youre fast doesnt mean you can do a specific position well.

thats like saying "man, Michael Lewis is a big, physical player, why dont they use him at RB?"

its more than speed. you have to judge the flight of the ball, the spin, know when to let it go, when to fair catch, when to return, and than have the open field skills to make something happen. catching a ball come down at a high sharp angle, flipping over end is nothing like catch a pass.

remember Josh Morgan dropped that pass early on, i want to say in the first Rams game? the pass got slightly tipped at the line, and it wobbled. he told Sing it went through his arms because "it came down like a punt".

i used Hill in madden

I agree that this is puzzling.

J. Hill really seems to have gotten into the Jimmy Raye doghouse, early-on, when he couldn't participate in OTA's and TC to Raye's satisfaction, because of some sort of leg ailment. Getting injured at the wrong time has been a thgeme of Hill's Niner career. Every time that it has been mentioned that he will get more PT, he gets injured in practice that week. That has to be really frustrating for the coaching staff.

At the end of 2008, Hill actually looked like Isaac Bruce in his style of running patterns and with his velcro hands. Then in 2009, he disappeared under the new offensive coaching staff. It doesn't appear that Jerry Sullivan has done much to champion Hill for more PT at WR. Hill's own personality might be a factor. He mimiced Bruce on the field, but claimed that Bruce never talked with him. At the same time, Crabtree and Morgan have been effusive in their praise of Bruce as a mentor. Maybe Hill is just an aloof guy. Maybe he doesn't volunteer for anything, such as RS. Certainly, Hill has been an effective gunner of the ST coverage teams.

Maiocco mentions talk of extending J. Hill. That is hard to believe given the lack of PT for this yuong player. I would think that J. Hill might be eager for a fresh start elsewhere.

It does seem wasteful to bury a 3rd round pick with 4.32 speed and good hands, without giving him a shot at RS. Maybe it was Al Everest who kept Hill out of this role. If so, let's hope that Kurt Schottenheimer has more of an open mind.

Regarding Smith, I seem to recall that he did have a chance in 1-2 games to return punts, but didn't really take advantage of that opportunity. He has also had ongoing, nagging injury problems, such that the coaches might be questioning his toughness. From the club's viewpoint, it seems much more important for Smith to step-up as a capable and trusted back-up for the oft-concussed SS Michael Lewis.

Clearly, both of these 3rd round investments have delivered low ROI. And fans have never gotten an explanation for why.

I thought we drafted Hill as a speed receiver/returner

The whole Kory Sheets thing kills me. Let's let go an explosive back to keep our Wildcat QB for another few weeks before we let him go. Wasn't Sheets a 4.3-4.4?

Those players where over looked because of poor coaching decisions and probably why we have a new special teams coordinator.

I like Singletary and think, in time, he'll be a good head coach but he's still a work in progress that depends entirely on his assistants to make the right decisions. The hope is that he'll learn from their mistakes.

Spurlock was the most puzzling. He stayed on the roster when other promising players where cut. Then, all of a sudden, he's gone and returning one for six on another team.

Go figure...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d80525966/WK-15-Can-t-Miss-Play-Spurlock-TD

[ Edited by vermonator on Feb 19, 2010 at 15:22:32 ]

Originally posted by 9erred:
I am seeing post after post about how the niners need to burn a first round pick on a return threat. While I understand the value of a return threat, why has the coaching staff fully exhausted the potential returners on the roster?

Because the complexities of running an NFL franchise and evaluating talent at the NFL level is so far beyond your comprehension as a fan that you couldn't possibly understand why certain decisions are made.

I'll try to provide you with hypothetical reasoning beyond each of the players you have discussed. As noted below, neither one of us sat in during team meetings and practices, so it's all speculation.

Jason Hill returned one punt and zero kicks at the College level. Speed isn't the only thing a return man needs to be successful in the NFL. Scouting reports and combine numbers are completely useless in this regard as well.

Reggie Smith was injured for most of 2008 and part of the 2009 season. I'm not entirely sure of Smith is even capable of special teams play at this level.

Kory Sheets is a forgone conclusion. He isn't on the team, and when he was on the practice squad, he didn't show enough to get a promotion to the active roster.

Originally posted by 9erred:
I am seeing post after post about how the niners need to burn a first round pick on a return threat. While I understand the value of a return threat, why has the coaching staff fully exhausted the potential returners on the roster?

1. Jason Hill- 4.3 speed, listed as a return person in draft analysis. He is not one of the top 3 WR's, so why not use him as a returner???

2. Reggie Smith, safety, 3rd round pick, was a returner in college, why in gods name was he not look at for returning kicks?

3. Not on roster, but was, Kory Sheets draft analysis looks a lot like ones people want to burn a high pick on. He runs fast and was listed as a returner, why was he not given a shot?

The above aforementioned ALL in my opinion pose more of a threat than Delanie Walker or Michale Robinson or Arnaz Battle. If the coach's would have at least tried some of them as a KR or PR, maybe they would not have to burn a top round pick on a returner this year.

Just ventin.

I'm willing to bet they all got their chance in the off-season and showed exactly what they could (or in this case could not) do. As others have said, it takes more than speed to return a kick...

Originally posted by foreign49er:
I thought we drafted Hill as a speed receiver/returner

The whole Kory Sheets thing kills me. Let's let go an explosive back to keep our Wildcat QB for another few weeks before we let him go. Wasn't Sheets a 4.3-4.4?

Kory Sheets is becoming one of those players that somehow take playing late in pre-season games against guys that generally do not make the NFL and turn it into a future HOF career in some fans' eyes.

First, lets not forget that Sheets was undrafted so even if he is fast, the league as a whole passed in terms of investing a draft pick in him.

Second, despite the good preseason, he had to go through waivers to be put on the 49ers practice squad. The entire league took another pass, which allowed him to start the season on the PS.

Third, the 49ers did not just let him go. The Dolphins signed him off the 49ers practice squad to their regular roster.

Fourth, for the 11 games he was with the Dolphins, he appeared in 2 games and had 1 carry for 5 yards despite the Dolphins losing Ronny Brown for the season. He also apparently was not used on returns.

Maybe Sheets is a "diamond in the ruff" but lets not act like the 49ers had the next Barry Sanders on the roster and cut him...or at least lets not do it until Kory Sheets shows a bit more in the regular season.

Originally posted by momoney925:
i used Hill in madden

lol, so do i

Originally posted by Niners99:
just because youre fast doesnt mean you can do a specific position well.

thats like saying "man, Michael Lewis is a big, physical player, why dont they use him at RB?"

its more than speed. you have to judge the flight of the ball, the spin, know when to let it go, when to fair catch, when to return, and than have the open field skills to make something happen. catching a ball come down at a high sharp angle, flipping over end is nothing like catch a pass.

remember Josh Morgan dropped that pass early on, i want to say in the first Rams game? the pass got slightly tipped at the line, and it wobbled. he told Sing it went through his arms because "it came down like a punt".

sorry but i completely disagree for the reason that we put arnaz battle who was proven to fumble the ball time and time again instead of trying a person who either is fast or was a college return man. That just doesnt make sense to me, both hill and smith have fresh legs as opposed to morgan so they would have been better on KR, not to mention morgan isnt the fastest guy either.

I would assume they gave several guys shots in practice and nobody wow'ed em.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by 9erred:
I am seeing post after post about how the niners need to burn a first round pick on a return threat. While I understand the value of a return threat, why has the coaching staff fully exhausted the potential returners on the roster?

1. Jason Hill- 4.3 speed, listed as a return person in draft analysis. He is not one of the top 3 WR's, so why not use him as a returner???

2. Reggie Smith, safety, 3rd round pick, was a returner in college, why in gods name was he not look at for returning kicks?

3. Not on roster, but was, Kory Sheets draft analysis looks a lot like ones people want to burn a high pick on. He runs fast and was listed as a returner, why was he not given a shot?

The above aforementioned ALL in my opinion pose more of a threat than Delanie Walker or Michale Robinson or Arnaz Battle. If the coach's would have at least tried some of them as a KR or PR, maybe they would not have to burn a top round pick on a returner this year.

Just ventin.

I'm willing to bet they all got their chance in the off-season and showed exactly what they could (or in this case could not) do. As others have said, it takes more than speed to return a kick...

I'm in agreement. They need to have the ability to identify the seam when they have the ball. Something that nobody that replaced AR could do. Then of course they had to have secured the ball first. That thing got put on the ground more often by our Return guys than the league average I think. Then of course the auto fair catch guys. I swear soon as the ball hit the Punter's foot the arm went up to signal for it.

How bout we get a guy that can wait til the ball hits it's highest point before waiving the arm. At least that way they can get a better idea if their blockers have their guys tied up.

At least Jones for the most part caught the damn thing. AB just has no clue as a Punt Returner.I think that he could be a solid Kick Returner but PR is a different mentality. You can't be afraid to get hit and you can't let the ball hit the ground even within 10 yards. You can't guarantee that the ball is gonna go into the End Zone for a touchback, and the recovery units are getting better at recovering before it gets into the End Zone. Best thing to do is to catch the damn thing and know the oppositions location before you get it.

Speed is the LAST thing that we need to have. It is a must have, but if the guy can't put any of the above together speed is wasted.

I may be wrong but I think that Hill DID get in a couple Returns. For some reason I remember him getting a shot on that. But I could be wrong and it could have been Kick Return duty. Damn hard drive is on the fritz again. Stinkin gremlins.

~Ceadder