Vernon disses Dallas Clark

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Chief:
Davis on the Colts > Clark on the Colts

I doubt Vernon has the intelligence to play on the Colts. Let's face it the guy's a lost puppy out there sometimes.

Lets face it, Davis has had 4 diffrent OCs and 5 diffrent QBs performing at a sub par level. To insult the mans intellegence tells me a lot about yours.

I'm not saying he's dumb, but one complaint about Vernon has been his ability to pick things up on the field. This was complaint about him in college and it has definetily followed him over to the pros. The Colts change everything at the line scrimmage and they ask alot from their receivers.

Read between the lines. I didn't call him stupid, I just pointed out the fact that he struggles at learning offenses, he struggles at lineing up properly, he struggles at route running, and just isn't a receiver who knows how to get open and read defenses.

Those are all facts. Choose to ignore them and make excuses if you want.

I have a hard time believing that a TE can gain almost 1000 yards in a season and tie the TE record for TDs if he doesn't know how to read defenses or get open. I would also point out that he hardly has time to get open because our Oline sucks and our QBs aren't much better.

However, I would agree that route running and football smarts aren't his areas of strenght. I just dont agree to the degree you stated. My cousin met with him in a business type setting and said he mentioned how difficult Martz playbook was.

But Davis is a professional and to say he couldn't play in the Colts O is rediculous in my opinion.

Sorry for being rude.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Chief:
Davis on the Colts > Clark on the Colts

I doubt Vernon has the intelligence to play on the Colts. Let's face it the guy's a lost puppy out there sometimes.

Lets face it, Davis has had 4 diffrent OCs and 5 diffrent QBs performing at a sub par level. To insult the mans intellegence tells me a lot about yours.

Not really, Dilfer has even said on ESPN a few times that when he was the QB and other QBs we've had, have a hard time trusting Vernon on the field because he doesn't always run the routes right and he struggles sometimes with being the hot read. The Colts audible more than anybody else in the league. Clark also hasn't dropped as many passes as VD. And yeah you can point out that VD has Smith and Clark has Manning, but at the same time VD got just as many targets as Clark did pretty much. Clark had 22 more catches and almost 200 more yards. Clark is a much more reliable TE. And Vernon's blocking isn't as great as it was when he was staying in to block a lot of the time. He's gotten a bit lazy with it. Plus he's one of the most penalized players in the league. Look, I'm not saying he sucks or anything. Vern's a very good player. But any other fan in the NFL would say we're homers for saying Vernon is as good as Clark, and Clark has had more than 1 good season. Vernon has to get a hell of a lot more disciplined before he's better than clark.

As stated previously, Davis has been in a new system every single year of his career so routes and hot reads would not be nearly as easy if he had been in the same system for the last 4 years. This seems to be a valid argument for Smith, why not Davis?
How about chemistry? Lets see, Smith, Dilfer, Hill, JTO, Hill, Hill, Smith have been his QBs since he got into the league. Forget the fact that none of these guys are even close to the level of Manning, just tell me how he is suppose to build chemistry?
How about the QB? Who do you think throws a more accurate and catchable ball? Rarely does Davis get any "give me" passes. Even his famous deep post is a over the shoulder lazer, which is difficult for a big man like Davis to catch.

Finally, I doubt any of us have watched enough Colts game to really give a fair evaluation (myself included). Truthfully, I dont know who is better, but I'm very pro Davis.

I hate homer-ism, but athletically, Vernon Davis is a once in a lifetime 'specimin' that can block like a tackle, and run/catch like Randy Moss. -Dallas Clark can block, and make slant possessions up the middle, but in no way can Clark do the types of posts/speed routes Davis can.

Some guys are just naturally built for the role (like Davis), so they easily become the best in the league at that certain position, and I think Vernon is on his way to that 'case' in point.

Originally posted by Chief:
Davis on the Colts > Clark on the Colts

This.

Clark is a great TE in this league, however, he has a great situation as well...

Peyton Manning throwing the ball, Reggie Wayne on the outside...

Vernon has a QB controversy every year, and when was the last time we had a 1000yd 10td WR?

Vernon Davis was our passing offense this year, and he tied the NFL record for TD's by a TE.(Dallas Clark does not share that recored btw) He did it with two different QB's(neither of which should be mentioned in the same sentence as Peyton Manning), and the biggest threat we had out wide to take some of the pressure off him, was our rookie Crabtree, with a whopping 625yds...

Had Vernon said this last year, then yeah it would have been silly, but as of right now, he is better than Clark.

I saw someone mention that Clark has won a Superbowl... lol. Get real! The Colts won a Superbowl. Dallas Clark would not have that ring if he were in a 9er uniform, so let's not use team stats to determine individual performance.

VD still has holes in his game, and he will continue to improve. What he did this year was really awesome though, and he deserves to feel good about himself. He's a football player for crying out loud, he's not a politician,

I'll keep it easy
Davis is the best blocking TE in the NFL and the 49ers #1 recieving threat (right now)
Clark is not a good blocker, average at best if even, and the Colts #3/4 recieving threat

Overall game
Davis>>>Clark
right now Gates is slightly ahead
in a year or two Davis will be undesputed #1

that's not being a homer, that's being honest. No TE can compare to what he can do.
Think a faster Shanon Sharpe

Originally posted by Mister49:
Until Vernon learns how to get into an open zone and "sit" down,and how to get his head around when he's the hot read,and stops with all the drops,he can't hold Clarks Jock!

Well im fine with him just running a post with 3 guys trying to stop him. Even clark doesn't get that kind of respect to even be doubled even he had marvin and wayne and was always in single coverage and doesn't do the things vd does against 3 guys.

Originally posted by krizay:
I'm loving all these if all things were equal arguments. Apparently it's only a good argument if it fits your claim.

I'm sure the frustration is thick not being able to really diss Vernon. I mean you can point to his drops, but then you seem petty.

Kriz you have a keen enough eye in regards to football talent, that if you remove the bias you would agree. Vernon with Peyton would be nasty sick scenario.

How can he be the best all around tight end with all of those drops and penalties? He can be the best blocking tight end, and he could argue that he is the best receiving tight end; but drops and penalties can kill a drive and a game more than anything else and he is sorely lacking in those two critical areas. One penalty at the wrong time can cost more than he earns with an entire game of good blocking. A dropped TD pass forcing your team to attempt a field goal can cost the game. You can't have, for a lack of a better term, bonehead plays and claim to be the best overall anything.

All the evidence you need is the Saints/Vikings game. The Vikings lead in every category, dominated the game. But that all meant nothing because their bonehead plays, penalties and turnovers, cost them the game. When he isn't leading the league in drops and when he can play smart (not so many penalties) then we can talk about him being the best overall. Then there is a very strong case. But not until then.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by krizay:
I'm loving all these if all things were equal arguments. Apparently it's only a good argument if it fits your claim.

I'm sure the frustration is thick not being able to really diss Vernon. I mean you can point to his drops, but then you seem petty.

Kriz you have a keen enough eye in regards to football talent, that if you remove the bias you would agree. Vernon with Peyton would be nasty sick scenario.

I think it would be the same as the Dallas Clark scenario to be honesst. It's a catch 22. He has a better QB and they seem to pass more than we do. (without checking the numbers) But Peyton spreads the ball around ALOT more than Alex. So I don't see Vernon getting as many targets as he did here.

With that said, if he lines up wrong or runs the wrong route alot with Peyton. You might as well cancel his production.

I honestly don't think it would be much different than Clark.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Imagine Davis with Manning. End of discussion.

Manning would have been pissed at Vern for the drops and not being where he should be. It's not as simple as "well just imagine Vern with Manning at QB". Manning audibles nearly every play at the LOS, he changes a lot of stuff, and he relies a lot on his hot reads and his TEs recognizing where they need to go and holding on to balls. Clark is a better route runner, and he's smarter. He had 100 freaking catches.

Which is exactly why VD would flourish. Peyton Manning makes players around him better. If you dont think that he would take VD under his wing and help him in those situations, then you severely underestimate the importance of Peyton Manning in that offense. There is a reason why they didnt miss a beat when they replaced a future hall of fame WR in Marvin Harrison.

Clark would be an average / above average TE on our team.

Clark is more of a WR then he is a TE.

Diss: Dallas Clark sucks. Can't block, and he's only a good receiving TE because he's got Manning tossing him the ball.

Diss?: I think I'm a better all-around TE than Dallas Clark.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Clark - better hands.

Davis - better speed, explosiveness, strength, and blocking.



I guess he has point.

This....

- 98

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Clark would be an average / above average TE on our team.

Be that as it may! If he was on our team and got 128 passes thrown his way and was the only player we thrown to in the redzone. I bet he'd have roughly the same stats.


Which means...............


Just saying!!!