The truth about Dashon Goldson.

I don't know about in real life, but in Madden he is an interception machine for me.

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
I don't know about in real life, but in Madden he is an interception machine for me.

I am usually very opposed to moving guys out of postion...but I cant shake the feeling Goldson is a stud Strong Safety waiting to happen. I really wish that Sing would consider moving Clements to freeas well, with his dimished speed due to age he could still be pro bowl material in a saftey postion, and Goldson playing closer to the line lets him cover backs and TE's more often where he is less likely to get burned. We would need to draft one stud cover corner rather than thinking about a Corner and a Safety. It would hing on Clements being able to convert, but damned if it wouldnt potentially prolong his career by a couple of years and potentially improve our secondary. Spencer/Harris and Bly/Draft pick at corner and Clement and Goldson at Safety...with plenty of young guys and vets for depth.

I think we need to keep in mind that his play improved significantly throughout the season. The player he was at the end of the year was massively improved from the player that started the season.

Additionally, I'm not sure how giving up the 6th most yardage makes him the worst cover safety? You have to remember that different teams use their safeties in different ways. His high sack total and low QB pressure numbers are more related to scheme and less related to ability. Typically on a safety blitz, the safety is the free man. So if he was blitzing a lot and not getting through, then you could argue that he is a poor pass-rusher. However, as he was our safety with the most "range," he was rarely asked to blitz and was quite often the only man covering the deep end of the field. I think given that responsibility, he played quite well in coverage. No safety in one-deep coverage is going to be able to make a play on every deep ball, every play.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
I am usually very opposed to moving guys out of postion...but I cant shake the feeling Goldson is a stud Strong Safety waiting to happen.

I just don't know if DG is big enough to play SS.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Ive noticed for the past few weeks, there a big myth going around the zone that Dashon Goldson is a pro bowl caliber S. statistics prove otherwise.

first lets look at his positives. he seemed to really have a knack for jarring the ball loose. in the game that basically started driving this myth, monday night vs. AZ, he made alot of very fundamental hits to knock the ball free.

he also tied for the NFL lead in sacks by S, with 3, although that was really all he did in the business of getting to the QB. hes nowhere to be found in QB hits or pressures, so you cant really call him a "pass rushing S".

He was solid against stopping the run, as was our entire D. finished in the top 10 for total tackles by a S in the NFL. he also picked off 4 passes, good for an 8 way tie for 7th most. (although he did have alot of chances)

and now for the not so impressive stuff.

Dashon Goldson was the worst cover S in football this season. yes, jarring fumbles loose is great, racking up tackles is nice too, but if youre a defensive back, you better be able to cover a pass catcher, or youll be out of a job no matter how hard you hit.

he was thrown at 52 times, good for 5th most in the NFL (which explains the high tackle total). he also gave up the 6th most yardage to pass catchers he was responsible for with 438, just 10 more yds than his buddy Michael Lewis at 7th. he gave up 3 TD's, which was top 15 (in a bad way).

while he racked up alot of tackles, he also missed 13 tackles, which is the 6th highest NFL total. only 2 PD this season, which is ranked 33rd.

now im not making this thread to tear him down, or to call him a bad player. hes still young, and has the tools to possibly get alot better and make his game more well rounded. right now, hes a hard hitter, he can knock a ball loose, and he seems to be around the ball alot. whether or not its because he cant cover, im not sure.

but the point is, he was not a pro bowl player this year, not even close. he can stuff the run, he can hit, he can even get after the passer a little bit, but until he improves his AWFUL coverage skills, he will be a liability to this defense. i have faith he can improve his coverage, but by no means should his job be safe.

It would be interesting if the same numbers were available for say the last 4 games or so of the season. Goldson struggled early and got better as the year went along. By the end of the year, he was a difference maker and made plays on defense. The Pro Bowl expectation is based on how he finished the season.

With that said, as much as some try, stats don't always mean as much in football as they do in baseball, especially when you get into some of these more exotic type statistics. For example, if you are going to cite to the stats at Pro Football Focus.com, which you have, then you have to consider the stats on Goldson given that according to their overall position ratings:

Manny Lawson was the 9th best overall 3-4 OLB.
Vernon Davis was the 57th best TE
Frank Gore was the 32nd best RB, behind, among others, Rock Cartwright, Ladell Betts, Brian Leonard, Kevin Smith, Reggie Bush, Jason Snelling, Justin Forsett. Oh, and Chris Johnson ran for 2000 yards and was only the 4th best RB overall.

So, have fun with the numbers but just remember the conclusions of the source.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I don’t remember anyone saying Goldson is a probowler. Maybe they said he has probowl potential?

I disagree that Goldson's high number of tackles is because he was thrown at a lot. It's because he's always patrolling the line of scrimmage. Towards the later half of the season the guy was all over the field and always near the ball carrier whether coming out of the backfield or catching a pass. What is the difference in numbers between the "5th highest thrown at" S and the 20th? Is it like 40 or more like 10? That should give us some good insight into how relevant your theory is.

A lot of his missed tackles was because he needs to learn that he can't always "lay the wood." But it's a fine line because "laying the wood" is part of his game and part of what will make WRs alligator arm and be intimidated to go across the deep middle.

Finally, teammates, coaches and commentators mention "range" as one of his most valuable assets. Range is code word for football speed, the kind that counts. So if you have a safety that has good range, hits hard and oh yeah, wears the green dot helmet I think you got a keeper. He isn’t an all pro (yet), but I like his chances.

I gotta agree w/ this as a valid argument and response to the original post. Also, kem99 brought up the questionable credibility of the links posted which should also be brought into consideration.

Ya, he was inconsistent, but showed some nice flashes of dominance. He should be given another year as starter at FS, and if he continues to struggle in pass coverage, he would make a good SS at least.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Ive noticed for the past few weeks, there a big myth going around the zone that Dashon Goldson is a pro bowl caliber S. statistics prove otherwise.

first lets look at his positives. he seemed to really have a knack for jarring the ball loose. in the game that basically started driving this myth, monday night vs. AZ, he made alot of very fundamental hits to knock the ball free.

he also tied for the NFL lead in sacks by S, with 3, although that was really all he did in the business of getting to the QB. hes nowhere to be found in QB hits or pressures, so you cant really call him a "pass rushing S".

He was solid against stopping the run, as was our entire D. finished in the top 10 for total tackles by a S in the NFL. he also picked off 4 passes, good for an 8 way tie for 7th most. (although he did have alot of chances)

and now for the not so impressive stuff.

Dashon Goldson was the worst cover S in football this season. yes, jarring fumbles loose is great, racking up tackles is nice too, but if youre a defensive back, you better be able to cover a pass catcher, or youll be out of a job no matter how hard you hit.

he was thrown at 52 times, good for 5th most in the NFL (which explains the high tackle total). he also gave up the 6th most yardage to pass catchers he was responsible for with 438, just 10 more yds than his buddy Michael Lewis at 7th. he gave up 3 TD's, which was top 15 (in a bad way).

while he racked up alot of tackles, he also missed 13 tackles, which is the 6th highest NFL total. only 2 PD this season, which is ranked 33rd.

now im not making this thread to tear him down, or to call him a bad player. hes still young, and has the tools to possibly get alot better and make his game more well rounded. right now, hes a hard hitter, he can knock a ball loose, and he seems to be around the ball alot. whether or not its because he cant cover, im not sure.

but the point is, he was not a pro bowl player this year, not even close. he can stuff the run, he can hit, he can even get after the passer a little bit, but until he improves his AWFUL coverage skills, he will be a liability to this defense. i have faith he can improve his coverage, but by no means should his job be safe.

Great post! He will get bteer in coverage with more experience. The interesting thing is that everything he is good at...hitting, stuffing run, getting to QB is exactly what you want from your strong safety. I am aware that he is about 15-20 lbs light for the position but he has the frame and height to put the weight on. The Niners will move him to SS, If not this year then in the near future.

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Ya, he was inconsistent, but showed some nice flashes of dominance. He should be given another year as starter at FS, and if he continues to struggle in pass coverage, he would make a good SS at least.

Exactly I don't understand why folks can't wait to see consistency out of players for more than a few games. How bout a entire season or 2 season before folks start getting crowned or labeled. Goldson and Brooks both need to prove they can play on a high level for more than 5/6 games. If a year from now both of these guys perform for a whole season like they did down the stretch then you have something. it's like everybody wants to final answer on a player after a small sample time. Goldson had some terrible games and some nice games. I mean after the 1st 10 games folks were talking bout he needs to go. Then a great final 6 games and he's playing on a pro bowl level and has arrived.

Originally posted by excelsior:
I know it is easy to get excited about the so-called "deep" draft this year. We are drooling over the good prospects that can become 49ers this year. But I look at this a little differently. It is a deep draft for all the other teams as well. Even the good teams that draft late in each round will be doing well. As we improve, so will the teams we are hoping to overtake.

Sup brotha E, and you know what this is whats the most funny about some of the zone. They feel because we upgrade and draft pretty good guys that this means that every other team is gonna stay dormant while we become one of the best.

Thats why i say, to even those in our division, dont discount ANYONE, because as we make upgrades, they do as well.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Ya, he was inconsistent, but showed some nice flashes of dominance. He should be given another year as starter at FS, and if he continues to struggle in pass coverage, he would make a good SS at least.

Exactly I don't understand why folks can't wait to see consistency out of players for more than a few games. How bout a entire season or 2 season before folks start getting crowned or labeled. Goldson and Brooks both need to prove they can play on a high level for more than 5/6 games. If a year from now both of these guys perform for a whole season like they did down the stretch then you have something. it's like everybody wants to final answer on a player after a small sample time. Goldson had some terrible games and some nice games. I mean after the 1st 10 games folks were talking bout he needs to go. Then a great final 6 games and he's playing on a pro bowl level and has arrived.

Does this suprise you?

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Ya, he was inconsistent, but showed some nice flashes of dominance. He should be given another year as starter at FS, and if he continues to struggle in pass coverage, he would make a good SS at least.

Exactly I don't understand why folks can't wait to see consistency out of players for more than a few games. How bout a entire season or 2 season before folks start getting crowned or labeled. Goldson and Brooks both need to prove they can play on a high level for more than 5/6 games. If a year from now both of these guys perform for a whole season like they did down the stretch then you have something. it's like everybody wants to final answer on a player after a small sample time. Goldson had some terrible games and some nice games. I mean after the 1st 10 games folks were talking bout he needs to go. Then a great final 6 games and he's playing on a pro bowl level and has arrived.

LOl, it's funny cuz there are at least 5 to 10 players on our roster that this same type of thinking should be towards. But dont forget we are the zone. (dont think i need to say anymore)

First, Dashon Goldson had a good year particulay the second half.

Second, I do not remember anyone touting him as all-pro caliber.

Did people realy claim that or did you just make it up?

Originally posted by buck:
First, Dashon Goldson had a good year particulay the second half.

Second, I do not remember anyone touting him as all-pro caliber.

Did people realy claim that or did you just make it up?

This.