The Alex Smith Experiment - Uncharted Territory?

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

D. not to be funny brotha, but thats what the real crazies do. Make their own selves laugh, cuz the only points your making are to yourself. You know im right when i say you'd have to be stupid as hell to put a RB in the same category of QB, when we talkin bout QB's.

Defend a losing argument, well brotha your just still beatin around the bush listen and maybe i have to say it slower and more focused. ONLY WRITE BACK WHEN YOU CAN ADRESS THE SENSE THAT IT MAKES TO PUT A RB IN THE SAME CATEGORY OF QB'S. That s**t is just stupid, so ok, your not making up the number you came up with, but it's dumb as hell to even put Addai in the category.

Thats why im laughin at you. If i ask you about president obama and his wife, you talk about bill clinton. Listen carefully again. We are talkin about QB's, and thats what i mean about them crazy ass fans. We talkin bout one thing, and you come out of left field, and in your response, like i just said, dont still my words, cuz you have, and continue to write back, and it's just coming out as blah blah blah.

You have no validation for putting any runnning back when talkin bout QB's. I mean lets say we have pennington as QB, and pat white is a returner but has passing ability. He throws for 5 passes all season, and made all 5. Do we compare him and pennington, hell no, cause thats dumb as hell. Thats where im coming from. and please, unless you have something productive to say avoiding your crazy ass way of thinkin i'll be hear.

If you just gonna comment back with childish s**t, then please just dont write back brotha.

Kid you have lost it.

You say the crazies make themselves laugh and then make yourself laugh. All of your posts are littered with these types of contradictions. Like we started out talking completion % but then you want to change it to only be QB's completion %. (here's a news flash, Other people can throw the ball too and they get a completion % for it)... You completely disregard the valid point of rule changes that have helped the more recent QB's and focus on you poor attempt of a spin towards running backs which only supports my argument of # of pass attempts must be factored in when comparing TDs, INTs, and completions. Any logical minded individual knows that # of attempts should be looked at when you compare these...

Since we're talking about areas that you got wrong, here's another one. I'm not making myself laugh throughout this thread. I'm openly laughing at you and all your contradictions!

I earlier thought you understood the point I made; but, thought you were just being an ass and trying to start s**t. Now, I get it, I was giving you way too much credit. Some folks, like you, will never be able to grasp this type of logical thinking (what you call a "crazy ass way of thinkin"). Maybe you should spend less time trying to impress people ("brotha, cuz, talkin," ect) and actually watch/study the game of Football... Then, maybe you'd be able to grasp the point I made.

Now through all of this, I've asked you to do one simple thing, which was back up your statement that I made s**t up. You have failed to do that. In fact you've even admitted that you made that s**t up. This exposes who you are and I hope all on here realize that when you cannot support you failing point of view, you turn to cowardly acts of slander and lies...

But you did get one thing right, this discussion is over, so go ahead and get your last word in and lets be done with it.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

D. not to be funny brotha, but thats what the real crazies do. Make their own selves laugh, cuz the only points your making are to yourself. You know im right when i say you'd have to be stupid as hell to put a RB in the same category of QB, when we talkin bout QB's.

Defend a losing argument, well brotha your just still beatin around the bush listen and maybe i have to say it slower and more focused. ONLY WRITE BACK WHEN YOU CAN ADRESS THE SENSE THAT IT MAKES TO PUT A RB IN THE SAME CATEGORY OF QB'S. That s**t is just stupid, so ok, your not making up the number you came up with, but it's dumb as hell to even put Addai in the category.

Thats why im laughin at you. If i ask you about president obama and his wife, you talk about bill clinton. Listen carefully again. We are talkin about QB's, and thats what i mean about them crazy ass fans. We talkin bout one thing, and you come out of left field, and in your response, like i just said, dont still my words, cuz you have, and continue to write back, and it's just coming out as blah blah blah.

You have no validation for putting any runnning back when talkin bout QB's. I mean lets say we have pennington as QB, and pat white is a returner but has passing ability. He throws for 5 passes all season, and made all 5. Do we compare him and pennington, hell no, cause thats dumb as hell. Thats where im coming from. and please, unless you have something productive to say avoiding your crazy ass way of thinkin i'll be hear.

If you just gonna comment back with childish s**t, then please just dont write back brotha.

Kid you have lost it.

You say the crazies make themselves laugh and then make yourself laugh. All of your posts are littered with these types of contradictions. Like we started out talking completion % but then you want to change it to only be QB's completion %. (here's a news flash, Other people can throw the ball too and they get a completion % for it)... You completely disregard the valid point of rule changes that have helped the more recent QB's and focus on you poor attempt of a spin towards running backs which only supports my argument of # of pass attempts must be factored in when comparing TDs, INTs, and completions. Any logical minded individual knows that # of attempts should be looked at when you compare these...

Since we're talking about areas that you got wrong, here's another one. I'm not making myself laugh throughout this thread. I'm openly laughing at you and all your contradictions!

I earlier thought you understood the point I made; but, thought you were just being an ass and trying to start s**t. Now, I get it, I was giving you way too much credit. Some folks, like you, will never be able to grasp this type of logical thinking (what you call a "crazy ass way of thinkin"). Maybe you should spend less time trying to impress people ("brotha, cuz, talkin," ect) and actually watch/study the game of Football... Then, maybe you'd be able to grasp the point I made.

Now through all of this, I've asked you to do one simple thing, which was back up your statement that I made s**t up. You have failed to do that. In fact you've even admitted that you made that s**t up. This exposes who you are and I hope all on here realize that when you cannot support you failing point of view, you turn to cowardly acts of slander and lies...

But you did get one thing right, this discussion is over, so go ahead and get your last word in and lets be done with it.

Well D you have proven one thing to me. 1. you dont pay attention or listen, cuz i swear i said dont write back until you can answer my question, which is where this all came from. And i made nothing up brotha, thats all you.

I gave you stats on comparisons that not even myself conjured, but were compared and brought up by cbs5 because Smith is a 9er QB, and even tho the injuries, he was compared to other 9er qb's.

We were following one another, and i said that he wasnt doin that bad in comparison with those few QB's. Then you took the stats i gave and added other elements you felt should be accounted for. When i just said why dont you leave the stats alone and just take them how they are.

First you talked about the times in which they played, so i got you on that one. And you were on target a little, but then when i talked about the stats, that werent made up, but put out there during the Smith interview. Then you went off on the tangent of, well if thats the case if we're talkin about stats etc, then Addai would have a higher rating and he should be considered or some mess like that.

Then i responded by saying u were good until you went off the end, and started talkin crazy about adding a RB's passer rating in comparison to the starting QB. An argument that's so outlandish it makes you wonder what the hell is goin on in your head.

So here is the question one more time, and if you write back, i say please brotha, we are both civilized men here although we werent actin like it for a bit.

If we are talking about QB's and stats, and talkin about how those stats are obtained, does it really make sense to talk about players that may have a passer rating higher but arent QB's. That my friend is what i call reaching when you know your wrong.

Then after that, instead of continuing to come back at me with facts, not your opinionated numbers, then you took it personal and the personal shots, now you dont care about what others think and all this other s**t, that just threw it off topic. Thats what im talkin about, all of a sudden you just went off topic and stayed there. Go back and read your last 2 to 3 posts and they saying the same thing, except this time, not talkin about anything in regards to smith, which is how all this started.

So I know your prolly gonna write back, and it's ok. Sometimes when we know we're wrong we just write non sense. And you've done that the last 3 responses. I say back up your claims, and that your claims make no sense, and you say blah blah blah, and you really think your winning but you lost the minute u added addai.

Some of your other points, i got you. But you still have yet to validate how can we be talkin about QB's and you bring in running backs, or wr's passing stats. So your just avoiding my question, and when i wrote you back last and said please dont write back, unless you adress, you do, but this time, are you even talkin about football?

I just say if you respond, then I have responded back to you now. What did you make up again, you made up the point to add in addai's passer rating and then tried to validate your reasoning for doing soo. And im saying even bringing anyone other than a QB in this discussion is straight out idiotic. The title says alex smith, and the stats i gave, included QB's only. So how about if we continue this discussion, we stay on topic. I think you can do that.

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i just find it funny that one minute when you bring in a stat, someone brings in another stat to focus on. For example;

For some reason we do this wit our team, but half our fans are f**ked up anyway so. But VD made it to the probowl with 10TDs from Smith vs 3 from HIll. But he sucks soo much. Showed a stat that says he actually performs under center better than the spread, then someone changes that up.

It's like if i take a s**t in a box, and mark it a chocolate truffle. Then when i give it to you tell you i say truffle but it's s**t, you still eat it anyway. It's like whats the reason to talk about improvement when only ray charles cant see that 18/10 TD's/INT's is a step up from his last FULL SEASON where he went 16/16. So he did the same in half the time, and this shows a decline, instead of improvement?

Well if someone posted this then ok, but i watched the A.Smith interview and was a little shocked at this fact.

49ers QB's 1st 5 seasons of play.
Comp% TD/INT
J Brodie 53.8 30/44
S.Deberg 56.5 50/77
J.Montana 63.5 78/44
S.Young 55.3 32/37
A.Smith 56.3 37/43

The conclusion i draw from this is he's right in the mix with them. Now i havent done the math, but i havent even factored how many of these played and produced these numbers while factoring in almost 2 years of not playing, due to injury. Or the offensive personnel and HC's and other personnel.

The league has moved more and more towards a passer friendly league (Rules that favor the QB and receiver). You would think that the more recent QB's stats would reflect that...

It also would be good to show how many pass attempts these guys had for those #'s. Like Young had less than 700 attempts in 5 years; but, has roughly the same TD and INT #s as Smith with 1200 attempts. I think Brodie had around 800 and Montana around 1700...

You know I like you D. Cuz you prove my point. See what i mean. With yourself and some of you maybe one day you guys will develop that attitude that a win is a win, no matter how pretty it's played.

For example; It's like lets say the niners won the first round playoff game 17-14, to make it to the conf. championship. Its like while the rest of us are happy as s**t that we made it, you and a few others are breaking down the stats on how this or that one played bad, missed this, blah blah blah.

My thing is stop trying to skew stats to more than they are. If his TD to INT ratio improved, his comp % improves, etc. Then leave it at that. Stop trying to say oh yeah with this, or oh yeah with that.

Its funny a proven program like ESPN, or NFL network will say his percentage is good, td ratio good. That they cant wait to see etc. Then its like ya'll take their numbers and say hey make this, or make that. Nah, I say take what they put out and stop trying to reconfigure to meet your opinions.

When i gave you the stats, thats what they were, but then ya'll wanna be deeper analysts, hey Young threw this many off his back foot, or Montana threw these many with an underhanded throw, or this many with one sock. I mean damn, cant ya'll just take it for face value the way it is without watering it down with personal bias.

So what if I see it differently. To me I see posters like you who gloss over key stats to try and prove that Alex is something more than what he is. Alex has improved and will hopefully continue to improve; but, as of now, he's still a below average QB.

Now, going by your logic (and glossing over # of attempts) Joseph Addai should be the starting QB in Indy with is Passer rate of 158.3 (to Manning's 99.9) and Fred Jackson should start at QB for Buffalo (158.3 to Fitxpatrick's 69.9)... See how a small detail like number of attempts makes a huge difference.

Also, don't dis the rule changes that help out a QB now a days. In 09, there were 10 QBs that threw for over 4000 yards (2008 there were 6 and 2007 there were 7). Back in 1990 there was what, 1 (1989 there were 2 and in 1991 there was 1)?

It's not just yards either. There was like only 1 30+ TD qb back per year in 1989, 90, 91 etc... But now a days we have at least 3 or 4 per year plus a QB throwing 50 TDs in a single season...

Now, don't you think the rule changes could help lesser QB's look better than Joe, Montana, Randal Cunningham, John Elway, or Dan Marino (look at the 1990 stats)? I for one don't think Ben Rothlesberger or Tony Romo are better than Joe but there 2009 stats sure make it look like it (if we ignore the rule change aspect of QB performance that is)...

Thats the main idea of your entire response back brotha.

You and a few others are gonna feel the way you do no matter what. And no i dont think this or that. you see im taking it the way it is. when you say dont you think this or that.

Well i kind of already told you how i feel about the situation. Romo, Ben, etc. See what i mean. stop goin off on a tangent about this or that. Fred Jackson, joseph addai. I could of swore we were talkin about Qb's.

But you see what i mean, damn, all the vets must be smokin some good s**t, cuz ya'll stay makin ur own scenarios. I mean when Randle El threw for a TD, who cares about his 159.76 passer rating. I mean come on brotha. your just really reachin here, and makin no sense now.

your like that child that you say no dont do that, and give you the reason to not do it, and you still do it anyway. Then your response is, well i thought it would be different. you just lost tons of credibility, cuz like i said, you just make up and add s**t, and when it gets to that level, the talk is done, cuz now your really just reachin brotha.

We TALKIN BOUT QB'S, and u should of stopped typing at joseph addai.

First off, Jersey, your doing exactly what your accusing me of. I just think you may be dumb enough to not realize it, or is it just an act.

Just because you dont understand logic or facts when it's presented does not mean that I made up anything. I cant help it if you just don't get it; but, I don't think that's the case with you.

I think you do get it and you know I'm right; so, you're going to try and spin it any way you can. I call BS. You know what I wrote was all facts and you have no argument against it. If any of it was not true you'd be all over the zone with stats and fact to prove I was wrong.

Now you want to talk about credibility... I don't give a s**t about credibility on here! I don't give a flying f**k what you or any other poster on here think about me and mine. But, it does crack me up that this is obviously so important to you; because, you lost so much more than credibility with you childish attempt to spin the truth, you lost my respect!

So here it is, you want to continue this discussion. Show me where I made something up.

Bring it!

Really brotha, i didnt know this was my little cousins movie Bring it On. But at the same time why brotha. All that you typed is a cop out brotha, how do i know i do the same with the kids that I work with. All that typing and you aint said a thing.

Brotha, and let me tell you to be honest, you and a few others wouldnt get it, if we painted it on a mural and put your name on it. The point i'm making that you just dont wanna agree with. Which is ok, and why i got a lame ass response as this.

My argument is this, so now there are no misunderstandings. So let me try to simplify it. If the league says, Ok, to come up with this number, we use the theory of a + b = c. You and your brain trusts always seem to come up with other s**t saying oh yeah dont forget a.a or b.b, or how the weather was or some other s**t.

Instead of really tryin to be a smart ass and impress someone on this damn board, keep it on the subject. and brotha, put the blunt down. What you made up.

I'll just start with the comparison of bringin in Joseph addai, and whomever else because they made a few passes. I'm saying ur trying to reach soo much that you dont have any real s**t to say.

Now i'll try one more time. If we talk about RB's #'s right, and i stick it on that. Then you say well if thats the case Donovan Mcnabb ran more times and has a better yardage number then according to stat wise he should be the running back. what I say to crazy s**t like that is damn, u must be on sumthin.

Do i really have to be childish and say Ok. we are just talkin about QB''s and there stats. I'm talkin about how if i give you 1 + 1 equals 2. You'd be like well maybe but i look at it different.

Then you try the lamest cop out with the reverse psychology of I dont give a s**t about credibility, and some other nonsense. Usually when temper flare's it's cuz u know your fighting a losing battle.

So as a result from you last post brotha, you shouldnt even write back. Because instead of stayin on topic, u gettin all heated, and blood pressure up. and now when someone makes a point its in the area of f**k em.

I just laugh brotha. And no need to bring it, cause what they say, it's already been brought.

No offense meant Jersey9er but speaking of someone that needs to put the blunt down.

Try that again but a bit more concise. Cause from where I sit you're telling him to stay on one subject but you're all over the map doing it.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i just find it funny that one minute when you bring in a stat, someone brings in another stat to focus on. For example;

For some reason we do this wit our team, but half our fans are f**ked up anyway so. But VD made it to the probowl with 10TDs from Smith vs 3 from HIll. But he sucks soo much. Showed a stat that says he actually performs under center better than the spread, then someone changes that up.

It's like if i take a s**t in a box, and mark it a chocolate truffle. Then when i give it to you tell you i say truffle but it's s**t, you still eat it anyway. It's like whats the reason to talk about improvement when only ray charles cant see that 18/10 TD's/INT's is a step up from his last FULL SEASON where he went 16/16. So he did the same in half the time, and this shows a decline, instead of improvement?

Well if someone posted this then ok, but i watched the A.Smith interview and was a little shocked at this fact.

49ers QB's 1st 5 seasons of play.
Comp% TD/INT
J Brodie 53.8 30/44
S.Deberg 56.5 50/77
J.Montana 63.5 78/44
S.Young 55.3 32/37
A.Smith 56.3 37/43

The conclusion i draw from this is he's right in the mix with them. Now i havent done the math, but i havent even factored how many of these played and produced these numbers while factoring in almost 2 years of not playing, due to injury. Or the offensive personnel and HC's and other personnel.

Sir, you are a scholar and a Gentleman. I loved the box of sh*t analogy as well.

Actually Steve Young's stats are 32/27, not 32/37. His first two years were on the Bucs. His first 5 years as a Niner are 40/14 and I believe that's with only 1 year as the starter.

http://www.nfl.com/players/steveyoung/profile?id=YOU299670

I have not verified the other stats listed.

LB
not mine ^

mine

63% of statistics are made up on the spot. That is a fact.