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Patrick Willis stats compared to Ray Lewis during his DPOY seasons
Jan 16, 2010 at 4:32 PM
- ruthless49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,793
the man can admit when hes w-w-wrong hes ok in my book . im pretty sure Willis forgives you too
Jan 16, 2010 at 7:40 PM
- Super5
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,513
Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by Young2Rice:
In just 2 years, Willis has established himself as the second best D player in the game (Polomalu is 1st imo).
In 2 more years he'll be number 1 and winnin dpoy alllll day
Even though I hate the Cowboys, Demarcus Ware is the best.
With all due respect...your an idiot...DeCRAPus Ware isn't anywhere near the player Patrick Willis or Polomalu is....Oh, cuz you see him make a play on a nationally televised game, that makes him great??? Watch him play a full game, see how many times you see him dominated by the better LT's in the league....he is way overrated....Merriman, before the injury, was much better and more consistent!!! And if you truly hated the Cowpies, that idiots name would have never come up, there are plenty of great Defensive players in the league that are MUCH better than him! MUCH! And he isn't even close to being at PDub's level!!!
NINERS4LIFE!
With all due respect, you are a bigger idiot because you are a HOMER and blind to other talented players on teams you despise. Go out and watch other teams play before you make foolish comments like this. By the way, you can hate a team but still respect the talent they have. I have friends that are Cowboy fans and they have hated the 49ers since 1990, so I have watched a few more Dallas games than the average 49er fan.
Back to Demarcus Ware. He plays the MOST IMPORTANT position in a 3-4, pass rushing OLB. And before you argue that, in the past Walsh, Belichik, Parcells, Wade Phillips, and Siefert have mentioned that this is the most important position to have.
Last year Ware had 20 sacks. That hasn't been done in a very long time.
Did you see him own the Saints, when they were beaten for the first time? In games he is often double-teamed on passing plays which opens up plays for his teammates. Even if you don't see him getting a sack, another player is, or a QB has a bad throw because he is hurried.
Since this is now a passing league, guess which player GMs would rather have, a great ILB or a great pass rusher? Yeah, it would be pass rusher. Also, more than a few NFL magazines have Ware rated as the best D player in the league. J. Allen, Asomhuga, and Ware are often in the top 5.
Yes Willis is the best ILB in the game, but he not the best defensive player.
Would the 49ers trade P.Willis for a dominant pass rusher they don't have?I doubt it,he's a special player who does it all.
And I can easily counter what you stated above-Yes Ware is the best OLB in the game but he's not the best defensive player-childish....
You can't really compare the two because they play different positions.The reason thethread is titled "Patrick Willis stats compared to Ray Lewis during his DPOY seasons" is because they play the same positions and therefore can be compared to each other
Ware and Willis are both great players at their respective positions but for you to come in here and say DM is better,you are being HOMER for your buddies or you're a closet Cowboy fan.
F the Cowboys
GO NINERS!
Jan 16, 2010 at 7:46 PM
- ruthless49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,793
Originally posted by Super5:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by Young2Rice:
In just 2 years, Willis has established himself as the second best D player in the game (Polomalu is 1st imo).
In 2 more years he'll be number 1 and winnin dpoy alllll day
Even though I hate the Cowboys, Demarcus Ware is the best.
With all due respect...your an idiot...DeCRAPus Ware isn't anywhere near the player Patrick Willis or Polomalu is....Oh, cuz you see him make a play on a nationally televised game, that makes him great??? Watch him play a full game, see how many times you see him dominated by the better LT's in the league....he is way overrated....Merriman, before the injury, was much better and more consistent!!! And if you truly hated the Cowpies, that idiots name would have never come up, there are plenty of great Defensive players in the league that are MUCH better than him! MUCH! And he isn't even close to being at PDub's level!!!
NINERS4LIFE!
With all due respect, you are a bigger idiot because you are a HOMER and blind to other talented players on teams you despise. Go out and watch other teams play before you make foolish comments like this. By the way, you can hate a team but still respect the talent they have. I have friends that are Cowboy fans and they have hated the 49ers since 1990, so I have watched a few more Dallas games than the average 49er fan.
Back to Demarcus Ware. He plays the MOST IMPORTANT position in a 3-4, pass rushing OLB. And before you argue that, in the past Walsh, Belichik, Parcells, Wade Phillips, and Siefert have mentioned that this is the most important position to have.
Last year Ware had 20 sacks. That hasn't been done in a very long time.
Did you see him own the Saints, when they were beaten for the first time? In games he is often double-teamed on passing plays which opens up plays for his teammates. Even if you don't see him getting a sack, another player is, or a QB has a bad throw because he is hurried.
Since this is now a passing league, guess which player GMs would rather have, a great ILB or a great pass rusher? Yeah, it would be pass rusher. Also, more than a few NFL magazines have Ware rated as the best D player in the league. J. Allen, Asomhuga, and Ware are often in the top 5.
Yes Willis is the best ILB in the game, but he not the best defensive player.
Would the 49ers trade P.Willis for a dominant pass rusher they don't have?I doubt it,he's a special player who does it all.
And I can easily counter what you stated above-Yes Ware is the best OLB in the game but he's not the best defensive player-childish....
You can't really compare the two because they play different positions.The reason thethread is titled "Patrick Willis stats compared to Ray Lewis during his DPOY seasons" is because they play the same positions and therefore can be compared to each other
Ware and Willis are both great players at their respective positions but for you to come in here and say DM is better,you are being HOMER for your buddies or you're a closet Cowboy fan.
F the Cowboys
GO NINERS!
its over i came to the party late too
Jan 17, 2010 at 9:53 AM
- Young2Rice
- Veteran
- Posts: 69,959
Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by Young2Rice:Originally posted by ruthless49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by ruthless49er:Originally posted by Young2Rice:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by Young2Rice:
In just 2 years, Willis has established himself as the second best D player in the game (Polomalu is 1st imo).
In 2 more years he'll be number 1 and winnin dpoy alllll day
Even though I hate the Cowboys, Demarcus Ware is the best.
With all due respect...your an idiot...DeCRAPus Ware isn't anywhere near the player Patrick Willis or Polomalu is....Oh, cuz you see him make a play on a nationally televised game, that makes him great??? Watch him play a full game, see how many times you see him dominated by the better LT's in the league....he is way overrated....Merriman, before the injury, was much better and more consistent!!! And if you truly hated the Cowpies, that idiots name would have never come up, there are plenty of great Defensive players in the league that are MUCH better than him! MUCH! And he isn't even close to being at PDub's level!!!
NINERS4LIFE!
With all due respect, you are a bigger idiot because you are a HOMER and blind to other talented players on teams you despise. Go out and watch other teams play before you make foolish comments like this. By the way, you can hate a team but still respect the talent they have. I have friends that are Cowboy fans and they have hated the 49ers since 1990, so I have watched a few more Dallas games than the average 49er fan.
Back to Demarcus Ware. He plays the MOST IMPORTANT position in a 3-4, pass rushing OLB. And before you argue that, in the past Walsh, Belichik, Parcells, Wade Phillips, and Siefert have mentioned that this is the most important position to have.
Last year Ware had 20 sacks. That hasn't been done in a very long time.
Did you see him own the Saints, when they were beaten for the first time? In games he is often double-teamed on passing plays which opens up plays for his teammates. Even if you don't see him getting a sack, another player is, or a QB has a bad throw because he is hurried.
Since this is now a passing league, guess which player GMs would rather have, a great ILB or a great pass rusher? Yeah, it would be pass rusher. Also, more than a few NFL magazines have Ware rated as the best D player in the league. J. Allen, Asomhuga, and Ware are often in the top 5.
Yes Willis is the best ILB in the game, but he not the best defensive player.
Wow, you just backed up what i said....Idiot....I said you saw him make a few plays in ONE game and that makes him great??? I live in Texas, YEAH I AM A "HOMER", so I probably get to see him play more than you do, and I don't befriend the enemy aka cowpie fans, there are plenty of Niner fans here to befriend! Did you see him against the CHARGERS? Before he hurt himself....he was nowhere near Rivers! Against the Giants, he NEVER touched Eli! (I think he got 1 sack when Eli ran into him)....Dude, his sacks were against the teams that are awful...KC, Oakland, Green Bay(In case everyone forgot, up until a month ago or so Green Bay was letting Rodgers get killed every week)...He didn't get a sack til WEEK 5 against KC! That's really bringing it, huh??? As far as him getting 20 sacks last year, if I remember correctly, and i do, cuz a fellow local Niner friend reminds all the dumbass cowpie fans every chance he gets, alot of those sacks came when he went completely unblocked, believe it or not, teams didnt block him for whatever reason...And I don't believe I have ever seen him doubleteamed...that's bulls**t...you are making out be something he isn't, just like the magazines that quote the "Jerry Jones Hype Machine".....If the magazines are correct, Marion Barber is a great RB too??? The Greatest RB to never rush for a 1,000 yards in a season???....but hey, they have been paid by Jerry Jones, they are set....don't ever expect 20 sacks again or 1,000 yards from Barber! Answer me this....If he is so great of a defensive player, why isn't he even in the TOP 6 candidates for DPOY??? Damn, it's like trying to explain to Dallas fans that going 13 years without a playoff win, doesn't make them great! Cowpie fans = Most Ignorant Fans in the League....bar none!
NINERS4LIFE!
Keep drinking the HaterAde my man. I'm a 49er fan, but I respect other players from other teams. I grew up watching LT and Haley in their prime so OLBs tend to be my favorite players. And I'll repeat it again, Ware plays the most important postion in a 3-4, rush OLB.
And I've watched more than one Dallas game. I often watch the games with my Cowboy fan friends and cheer when they screw up and lose.
You say Ware racks up his sacks against bad teams, well Willis plays against the hopeless Rams and Seahawks 2x a year, so his tackle totals can be somewhat inflated. Watch ESPNs Jaworski and Hodge, they always bring up that Ware must be schemed against to defeat the Cowboys. Ware was also all pro 2007, 2008, 2009.
Your hatred for the Cowboys makes you blind.
As mentioned before, Ware doesn't get that many votes for DPOY. Yeah, the OLB in a 3-4 may be the most important, but that doesn't automatically mean he's better then Willis because of that. By your logic, only OLB's should be considered to be great players.
Willis gets recognition and votes for DPOY because he dominates the middle of the field. Just as you must prepare for Ware, you have to do the same for Willis. Don't you think Whisenhunt, Mora Jr, Mcarthy n co worry about Willis just as they would worry about Ware? I bet WR's, RB's, and Qb's are aware of where he is. It is known in the league that when Willis hits you, it could be your season/career.
When Ware hits you, its not as damaging. Yes, he's a great player and gets a ton of sacks. But have you seen Ware chase down a WR or dish it up Adrian Peterson? People may game plan around Ware, but they FEAR Willis, who consistently knock guys out of the game?
Here are Ware's numbers for his 5 year career:
Tackles: 278
Sacks: 64.5
Pass defended: 18
Int: 1
TD: 1
Forced Fumbles: 23
And Willis' 3 year career:
Tackles: 358
Sacks: 9
Pass Defended: 23
Int: 4
TD: 2
Forced Fumbles: 6
And you are trying to say Ware is better simply because he plays a more important position?
Remember that Willis only has two years under his belt and has a weaker supporting cast. I think your argument with a fellow fan has clouded your judgment. You also need to consider not hanging out with so many Dallas fans.
You know the more i read that guys posts the more it seems like hes a Cowboy fan tryina pull that lame "oh im one of you guys but im more realistic" stunt. When you read ZRFs posts you might really disagree with what he says but theres no question the man bleeds red and gold. This guy though..ive heard him big up the cowboys to no end and not a word of respect for the niners. ive heard him say " i cheer when they screw up and lose"...but the niners well they dont screw up and lose they just suck....hmmm double agent perhaps
Hey I'm a 49er fan since 1980, and I do bleed red and gold. But what's there to respect about the 49ers the last few years, they haven't done anything. We have sucked the last few years, no winning season since 2002, and you can't sugar coat that. But the culture is changing with Sing and Jed at the helm. With a few lucky breaks this year, we could have been in the playoffs.
Now I've been watching the Cowboys since 1991 consistently because that's who are nemesis were back then. Heck I admit I'm jealous in some ways of the Cowboys. They have Jerry Jones who will spend any amount of money to win, much like Eddie D. They also have a new stadium, while we don't even know where we might play in the near future. LA, Oakland, Santa Clara, maybe SF?
I was called an idiot because I thought Ware was the better player than Willis. I still believe that. This is a passing league, and Ware plays a position where you need a dominant player, and Ware was dominant when he was healthy this year. You don't get 1st team All-Pro 3 years in a row without being considered one of the best at your position.
Great pass rushers and cover corners are more coveted than great ILBs. Look at the voting this year for D MVP; it went Woodson, Revis, Dumervil, Sharper, and J. Allen. Sacks and picks are what you see on ESPN highlights not Willis's 12 tackle games unless he KOs someone like Hasselbeck. Willis is the BEST ILB in the league, and he can be D MVP in the near future, but he can improve his game such as pass recognition.
out of 807 total plays on defense Ware had 11 sacks and 5 forced fumbles to go with 57 tackles. lets break that down shall we? thats about 8 % of the entire season did Ware have a positive impact. To help you out positive includes tackles as well to even it out against Willis. You really want me to bring up Willis' stats?
See above (this post). I put em in his place already.
Hey no need to attack me further, I admit when I'm wrong.
sorry I didn't see that. I'm glad you see the light. U can use these posts as ammunition against your Cowgirl fan friends. One final thing u can tell them...Ware had 20 sacks last year and didn't even win DPOY. What does that tell you?
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Jan 17, 2010 at 09:54:03 ]
Jan 17, 2010 at 11:46 AM
- JuiceMane9er
- Info N/A
i luv patrick willis i wish i could marry him.
[ Edited by JuiceMane9er on Jan 17, 2010 at 12:00:49 ]
[ Edited by JuiceMane9er on Jan 17, 2010 at 12:00:49 ]
Jan 17, 2010 at 11:51 AM
- Tru2RedNGold25
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,972
Originally posted by JuiceMane9er:
i luv patrick willis i wish i can marry him.
Somebody in here has a BAD man crush.
YIKES!!!!!!!!!
Jan 17, 2010 at 2:16 PM
- pelos21
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,731
Originally posted by JBatta49erfansince81:
You dont get a Player of the Year award on a bad team unless you have a totally incredible year or break some kind of record AKA Chris Johnson.
Jan 18, 2010 at 8:24 AM
- zaro49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 8
Originally posted by ruthless49er:Originally posted by Young2Rice:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by Young2Rice:
In just 2 years, Willis has established himself as the second best D player in the game (Polomalu is 1st imo).
In 2 more years he'll be number 1 and winnin dpoy alllll day
Even though I hate the Cowboys, Demarcus Ware is the best.
With all due respect...your an idiot...DeCRAPus Ware isn't anywhere near the player Patrick Willis or Polomalu is....Oh, cuz you see him make a play on a nationally televised game, that makes him great??? Watch him play a full game, see how many times you see him dominated by the better LT's in the league....he is way overrated....Merriman, before the injury, was much better and more consistent!!! And if you truly hated the Cowpies, that idiots name would have never come up, there are plenty of great Defensive players in the league that are MUCH better than him! MUCH! And he isn't even close to being at PDub's level!!!
NINERS4LIFE!
With all due respect, you are a bigger idiot because you are a HOMER and blind to other talented players on teams you despise. Go out and watch other teams play before you make foolish comments like this. By the way, you can hate a team but still respect the talent they have. I have friends that are Cowboy fans and they have hated the 49ers since 1990, so I have watched a few more Dallas games than the average 49er fan.
Back to Demarcus Ware. He plays the MOST IMPORTANT position in a 3-4, pass rushing OLB. And before you argue that, in the past Walsh, Belichik, Parcells, Wade Phillips, and Siefert have mentioned that this is the most important position to have.
Last year Ware had 20 sacks. That hasn't been done in a very long time.
Did you see him own the Saints, when they were beaten for the first time? In games he is often double-teamed on passing plays which opens up plays for his teammates. Even if you don't see him getting a sack, another player is, or a QB has a bad throw because he is hurried.
Since this is now a passing league, guess which player GMs would rather have, a great ILB or a great pass rusher? Yeah, it would be pass rusher. Also, more than a few NFL magazines have Ware rated as the best D player in the league. J. Allen, Asomhuga, and Ware are often in the top 5.
Yes Willis is the best ILB in the game, but he not the best defensive player.
Wow, you just backed up what i said....Idiot....I said you saw him make a few plays in ONE game and that makes him great??? I live in Texas, YEAH I AM A "HOMER", so I probably get to see him play more than you do, and I don't befriend the enemy aka cowpie fans, there are plenty of Niner fans here to befriend! Did you see him against the CHARGERS? Before he hurt himself....he was nowhere near Rivers! Against the Giants, he NEVER touched Eli! (I think he got 1 sack when Eli ran into him)....Dude, his sacks were against the teams that are awful...KC, Oakland, Green Bay(In case everyone forgot, up until a month ago or so Green Bay was letting Rodgers get killed every week)...He didn't get a sack til WEEK 5 against KC! That's really bringing it, huh??? As far as him getting 20 sacks last year, if I remember correctly, and i do, cuz a fellow local Niner friend reminds all the dumbass cowpie fans every chance he gets, alot of those sacks came when he went completely unblocked, believe it or not, teams didnt block him for whatever reason...And I don't believe I have ever seen him doubleteamed...that's bulls**t...you are making out be something he isn't, just like the magazines that quote the "Jerry Jones Hype Machine".....If the magazines are correct, Marion Barber is a great RB too??? The Greatest RB to never rush for a 1,000 yards in a season???....but hey, they have been paid by Jerry Jones, they are set....don't ever expect 20 sacks again or 1,000 yards from Barber! Answer me this....If he is so great of a defensive player, why isn't he even in the TOP 6 candidates for DPOY??? Damn, it's like trying to explain to Dallas fans that going 13 years without a playoff win, doesn't make them great! Cowpie fans = Most Ignorant Fans in the League....bar none!
NINERS4LIFE!
Keep drinking the HaterAde my man. I'm a 49er fan, but I respect other players from other teams. I grew up watching LT and Haley in their prime so OLBs tend to be my favorite players. And I'll repeat it again, Ware plays the most important postion in a 3-4, rush OLB.
And I've watched more than one Dallas game. I often watch the games with my Cowboy fan friends and cheer when they screw up and lose.
You say Ware racks up his sacks against bad teams, well Willis plays against the hopeless Rams and Seahawks 2x a year, so his tackle totals can be somewhat inflated. Watch ESPNs Jaworski and Hodge, they always bring up that Ware must be schemed against to defeat the Cowboys. Ware was also all pro 2007, 2008, 2009.
Your hatred for the Cowboys makes you blind.
As mentioned before, Ware doesn't get that many votes for DPOY. Yeah, the OLB in a 3-4 may be the most important, but that doesn't automatically mean he's better then Willis because of that. By your logic, only OLB's should be considered to be great players.
Willis gets recognition and votes for DPOY because he dominates the middle of the field. Just as you must prepare for Ware, you have to do the same for Willis. Don't you think Whisenhunt, Mora Jr, Mcarthy n co worry about Willis just as they would worry about Ware? I bet WR's, RB's, and Qb's are aware of where he is. It is known in the league that when Willis hits you, it could be your season/career.
When Ware hits you, its not as damaging. Yes, he's a great player and gets a ton of sacks. But have you seen Ware chase down a WR or dish it up Adrian Peterson? People may game plan around Ware, but they FEAR Willis, who consistently knock guys out of the game?
Here are Ware's numbers for his 5 year career:
Tackles: 278
Sacks: 64.5
Pass defended: 18
Int: 1
TD: 1
Forced Fumbles: 23
And Willis' 3 year career:
Tackles: 358
Sacks: 9
Pass Defended: 23
Int: 4
TD: 2
Forced Fumbles: 6
And you are trying to say Ware is better simply because he plays a more important position?
Remember that Willis only has two years under his belt and has a weaker supporting cast. I think your argument with a fellow fan has clouded your judgment. You also need to consider not hanging out with so many Dallas fans.
You know the more i read that guys posts the more it seems like hes a Cowboy fan tryina pull that lame "oh im one of you guys but im more realistic" stunt. When you read ZRFs posts you might really disagree with what he says but theres no question the man bleeds red and gold. This guy though..ive heard him big up the cowboys to no end and not a word of respect for the niners. ive heard him say " i cheer when they screw up and lose"...but the niners well they dont screw up and lose they just suck....hmmm double agent perhaps
THANK YOU GUYS! MY FELLOW NINER FANS CAN SEE THE TRUTH!!! Please, I watch the games, Willis is a DOMINATING player! Haley was Dominating! LT was Dominating! Ware isn't a dominating player....he is a stat whore! That's it....Anybody see his 1 play yest? He wasn't block and almost hurt himself again! They blocked him the rest of the game and Ware never got near Fahvruh.....so how can anyone say he is the BEST defensive player in the league??? Unless they are an ignorant cowpie fan! My hatred of dallas allows me to see them for they really are, not what Jerry Jones Hype Machine says they are!!!
NINERS4LIFE!!!
Jan 18, 2010 at 8:46 AM
- zaro49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 8
Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by Young2Rice:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by ruthless49er:Originally posted by Young2Rice:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by Young2Rice:
In just 2 years, Willis has established himself as the second best D player in the game (Polomalu is 1st imo).
In 2 more years he'll be number 1 and winnin dpoy alllll day
Even though I hate the Cowboys, Demarcus Ware is the best.
With all due respect...your an idiot...DeCRAPus Ware isn't anywhere near the player Patrick Willis or Polomalu is....Oh, cuz you see him make a play on a nationally televised game, that makes him great??? Watch him play a full game, see how many times you see him dominated by the better LT's in the league....he is way overrated....Merriman, before the injury, was much better and more consistent!!! And if you truly hated the Cowpies, that idiots name would have never come up, there are plenty of great Defensive players in the league that are MUCH better than him! MUCH! And he isn't even close to being at PDub's level!!!
NINERS4LIFE!
With all due respect, you are a bigger idiot because you are a HOMER and blind to other talented players on teams you despise. Go out and watch other teams play before you make foolish comments like this. By the way, you can hate a team but still respect the talent they have. I have friends that are Cowboy fans and they have hated the 49ers since 1990, so I have watched a few more Dallas games than the average 49er fan.
Back to Demarcus Ware. He plays the MOST IMPORTANT position in a 3-4, pass rushing OLB. And before you argue that, in the past Walsh, Belichik, Parcells, Wade Phillips, and Siefert have mentioned that this is the most important position to have.
Last year Ware had 20 sacks. That hasn't been done in a very long time.
Did you see him own the Saints, when they were beaten for the first time? In games he is often double-teamed on passing plays which opens up plays for his teammates. Even if you don't see him getting a sack, another player is, or a QB has a bad throw because he is hurried.
Since this is now a passing league, guess which player GMs would rather have, a great ILB or a great pass rusher? Yeah, it would be pass rusher. Also, more than a few NFL magazines have Ware rated as the best D player in the league. J. Allen, Asomhuga, and Ware are often in the top 5.
Yes Willis is the best ILB in the game, but he not the best defensive player.
Wow, you just backed up what i said....Idiot....I said you saw him make a few plays in ONE game and that makes him great??? I live in Texas, YEAH I AM A "HOMER", so I probably get to see him play more than you do, and I don't befriend the enemy aka cowpie fans, there are plenty of Niner fans here to befriend! Did you see him against the CHARGERS? Before he hurt himself....he was nowhere near Rivers! Against the Giants, he NEVER touched Eli! (I think he got 1 sack when Eli ran into him)....Dude, his sacks were against the teams that are awful...KC, Oakland, Green Bay(In case everyone forgot, up until a month ago or so Green Bay was letting Rodgers get killed every week)...He didn't get a sack til WEEK 5 against KC! That's really bringing it, huh??? As far as him getting 20 sacks last year, if I remember correctly, and i do, cuz a fellow local Niner friend reminds all the dumbass cowpie fans every chance he gets, alot of those sacks came when he went completely unblocked, believe it or not, teams didnt block him for whatever reason...And I don't believe I have ever seen him doubleteamed...that's bulls**t...you are making out be something he isn't, just like the magazines that quote the "Jerry Jones Hype Machine".....If the magazines are correct, Marion Barber is a great RB too??? The Greatest RB to never rush for a 1,000 yards in a season???....but hey, they have been paid by Jerry Jones, they are set....don't ever expect 20 sacks again or 1,000 yards from Barber! Answer me this....If he is so great of a defensive player, why isn't he even in the TOP 6 candidates for DPOY??? Damn, it's like trying to explain to Dallas fans that going 13 years without a playoff win, doesn't make them great! Cowpie fans = Most Ignorant Fans in the League....bar none!
NINERS4LIFE!
Keep drinking the HaterAde my man. I'm a 49er fan, but I respect other players from other teams. I grew up watching LT and Haley in their prime so OLBs tend to be my favorite players. And I'll repeat it again, Ware plays the most important postion in a 3-4, rush OLB.
And I've watched more than one Dallas game. I often watch the games with my Cowboy fan friends and cheer when they screw up and lose.
You say Ware racks up his sacks against bad teams, well Willis plays against the hopeless Rams and Seahawks 2x a year, so his tackle totals can be somewhat inflated. Watch ESPNs Jaworski and Hodge, they always bring up that Ware must be schemed against to defeat the Cowboys. Ware was also all pro 2007, 2008, 2009.
Your hatred for the Cowboys makes you blind.
As mentioned before, Ware doesn't get that many votes for DPOY. Yeah, the OLB in a 3-4 may be the most important, but that doesn't automatically mean he's better then Willis because of that. By your logic, only OLB's should be considered to be great players.
Willis gets recognition and votes for DPOY because he dominates the middle of the field. Just as you must prepare for Ware, you have to do the same for Willis. Don't you think Whisenhunt, Mora Jr, Mcarthy n co worry about Willis just as they would worry about Ware? I bet WR's, RB's, and Qb's are aware of where he is. It is known in the league that when Willis hits you, it could be your season/career.
When Ware hits you, its not as damaging. Yes, he's a great player and gets a ton of sacks. But have you seen Ware chase down a WR or dish it up Adrian Peterson? People may game plan around Ware, but they FEAR Willis, who consistently knock guys out of the game?
Here are Ware's numbers for his 5 year career:
Tackles: 278
Sacks: 64.5
Pass defended: 18
Int: 1
TD: 1
Forced Fumbles: 23
And Willis' 3 year career:
Tackles: 358
Sacks: 9
Pass Defended: 23
Int: 4
TD: 2
Forced Fumbles: 6
And you are trying to say Ware is better simply because he plays a more important position?
Remember that Willis only has two years under his belt and has a weaker supporting cast. I think your argument with a fellow fan has clouded your judgment. You also need to consider not hanging out with so many Dallas fans.
You know the more i read that guys posts the more it seems like hes a Cowboy fan tryina pull that lame "oh im one of you guys but im more realistic" stunt. When you read ZRFs posts you might really disagree with what he says but theres no question the man bleeds red and gold. This guy though..ive heard him big up the cowboys to no end and not a word of respect for the niners. ive heard him say " i cheer when they screw up and lose"...but the niners well they dont screw up and lose they just suck....hmmm double agent perhaps
Hey I'm a 49er fan since 1980, and I do bleed red and gold. But what's there to respect about the 49ers the last few years, they haven't done anything. We have sucked the last few years, no winning season since 2002, and you can't sugar coat that. But the culture is changing with Sing and Jed at the helm. With a few lucky breaks this year, we could have been in the playoffs.
Now I've been watching the Cowboys since 1991 consistently because that's who are nemesis were back then. Heck I admit I'm jealous in some ways of the Cowboys. They have Jerry Jones who will spend any amount of money to win, much like Eddie D. They also have a new stadium, while we don't even know where we might play in the near future. LA, Oakland, Santa Clara, maybe SF?
I was called an idiot because I thought Ware was the better player than Willis. I still believe that. This is a passing league, and Ware plays a position where you need a dominant player, and Ware was dominant when he was healthy this year. You don't get 1st team All-Pro 3 years in a row without being considered one of the best at your position.
Great pass rushers and cover corners are more coveted than great ILBs. Look at the voting this year for D MVP; it went Woodson, Revis, Dumervil, Sharper, and J. Allen. Sacks and picks are what you see on ESPN highlights not Willis's 12 tackle games unless he KOs someone like Hasselbeck. Willis is the BEST ILB in the league, and he can be D MVP in the near future, but he can improve his game such as pass recognition.
You didn't answer any of my questions.
We never refuted as Ware being the best at his position. The debate is weather Willis or Ware is better. Your argument is only based on the fact that Ware plays a "sexier" position. That does not make him better. Is Smith better then Gore because QB's are more coveted? No. Would you give Spencer the team MVP because he was our best player at a "coveted" position? No.
You have to look at the whole picture. Yeah Ware is a sackmaster, that is all. Willis is bigger, stronger, faster, and a harder hitter then Ware will ever be. Let Ware have his sacks, that's all that is asked of him. "Go hit the guy who's staring downfield" What a beast! He can POWN Vick, a 200 pound QB, or lay out Jason Cambell, but he can't knock Michael Turner backwards. He is just good at sacking that is it.
Willis has total all around game. And yes his coverage can be better, but as I said originally, give him two years.
And for the record, I think u are a cowboys fan. Otherwise you wouldn't beleive your 1 point about OLB's "coveted" so Ware must b better.
I have made more then one point sir. Give me somthing else besides his sacks.
GREAT POINTS and I can admit when I'm wrong when I'm not being attacked. I guess when you look past the sacks, Willis is obviously the better overall player. But you have to admit, Ware's position is schemed to get sacks and pressure just like Willis's position is to have plays funneled his way to make tackles. Hence the 278 tackles and 64.5 sacks for Ware and 358 tackles and 9 sacks for Willis.
By the way I am not a Dallas fan. When you have fantasy players on certain teams year after year, you tend to watch them a lot.
What is that? Willis gets alot of tackles cuz the plays are funneled to him??? That's a shot at Willis, by a supposed Niner fan! The Patrick Willis I see is always shooting gaps and taking to the hurt to the other teams, not waiting back for the plays to be "funneled" to him! That really sounds like a True Blue Dallas fan to me....
NINERS4LIFE!!!
Jan 18, 2010 at 5:06 PM
- FunkNinerFlex
- Veteran
- Posts: 490
Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by Young2Rice:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by ruthless49er:Originally posted by Young2Rice:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by zaro49er:Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:Originally posted by Young2Rice:
In just 2 years, Willis has established himself as the second best D player in the game (Polomalu is 1st imo).
In 2 more years he'll be number 1 and winnin dpoy alllll day
Even though I hate the Cowboys, Demarcus Ware is the best.
With all due respect...your an idiot...DeCRAPus Ware isn't anywhere near the player Patrick Willis or Polomalu is....Oh, cuz you see him make a play on a nationally televised game, that makes him great??? Watch him play a full game, see how many times you see him dominated by the better LT's in the league....he is way overrated....Merriman, before the injury, was much better and more consistent!!! And if you truly hated the Cowpies, that idiots name would have never come up, there are plenty of great Defensive players in the league that are MUCH better than him! MUCH! And he isn't even close to being at PDub's level!!!
NINERS4LIFE!
With all due respect, you are a bigger idiot because you are a HOMER and blind to other talented players on teams you despise. Go out and watch other teams play before you make foolish comments like this. By the way, you can hate a team but still respect the talent they have. I have friends that are Cowboy fans and they have hated the 49ers since 1990, so I have watched a few more Dallas games than the average 49er fan.
Back to Demarcus Ware. He plays the MOST IMPORTANT position in a 3-4, pass rushing OLB. And before you argue that, in the past Walsh, Belichik, Parcells, Wade Phillips, and Siefert have mentioned that this is the most important position to have.
Last year Ware had 20 sacks. That hasn't been done in a very long time.
Did you see him own the Saints, when they were beaten for the first time? In games he is often double-teamed on passing plays which opens up plays for his teammates. Even if you don't see him getting a sack, another player is, or a QB has a bad throw because he is hurried.
Since this is now a passing league, guess which player GMs would rather have, a great ILB or a great pass rusher? Yeah, it would be pass rusher. Also, more than a few NFL magazines have Ware rated as the best D player in the league. J. Allen, Asomhuga, and Ware are often in the top 5.
Yes Willis is the best ILB in the game, but he not the best defensive player.
Wow, you just backed up what i said....Idiot....I said you saw him make a few plays in ONE game and that makes him great??? I live in Texas, YEAH I AM A "HOMER", so I probably get to see him play more than you do, and I don't befriend the enemy aka cowpie fans, there are plenty of Niner fans here to befriend! Did you see him against the CHARGERS? Before he hurt himself....he was nowhere near Rivers! Against the Giants, he NEVER touched Eli! (I think he got 1 sack when Eli ran into him)....Dude, his sacks were against the teams that are awful...KC, Oakland, Green Bay(In case everyone forgot, up until a month ago or so Green Bay was letting Rodgers get killed every week)...He didn't get a sack til WEEK 5 against KC! That's really bringing it, huh??? As far as him getting 20 sacks last year, if I remember correctly, and i do, cuz a fellow local Niner friend reminds all the dumbass cowpie fans every chance he gets, alot of those sacks came when he went completely unblocked, believe it or not, teams didnt block him for whatever reason...And I don't believe I have ever seen him doubleteamed...that's bulls**t...you are making out be something he isn't, just like the magazines that quote the "Jerry Jones Hype Machine".....If the magazines are correct, Marion Barber is a great RB too??? The Greatest RB to never rush for a 1,000 yards in a season???....but hey, they have been paid by Jerry Jones, they are set....don't ever expect 20 sacks again or 1,000 yards from Barber! Answer me this....If he is so great of a defensive player, why isn't he even in the TOP 6 candidates for DPOY??? Damn, it's like trying to explain to Dallas fans that going 13 years without a playoff win, doesn't make them great! Cowpie fans = Most Ignorant Fans in the League....bar none!
NINERS4LIFE!
Keep drinking the HaterAde my man. I'm a 49er fan, but I respect other players from other teams. I grew up watching LT and Haley in their prime so OLBs tend to be my favorite players. And I'll repeat it again, Ware plays the most important postion in a 3-4, rush OLB.
And I've watched more than one Dallas game. I often watch the games with my Cowboy fan friends and cheer when they screw up and lose.
You say Ware racks up his sacks against bad teams, well Willis plays against the hopeless Rams and Seahawks 2x a year, so his tackle totals can be somewhat inflated. Watch ESPNs Jaworski and Hodge, they always bring up that Ware must be schemed against to defeat the Cowboys. Ware was also all pro 2007, 2008, 2009.
Your hatred for the Cowboys makes you blind.
As mentioned before, Ware doesn't get that many votes for DPOY. Yeah, the OLB in a 3-4 may be the most important, but that doesn't automatically mean he's better then Willis because of that. By your logic, only OLB's should be considered to be great players.
Willis gets recognition and votes for DPOY because he dominates the middle of the field. Just as you must prepare for Ware, you have to do the same for Willis. Don't you think Whisenhunt, Mora Jr, Mcarthy n co worry about Willis just as they would worry about Ware? I bet WR's, RB's, and Qb's are aware of where he is. It is known in the league that when Willis hits you, it could be your season/career.
When Ware hits you, its not as damaging. Yes, he's a great player and gets a ton of sacks. But have you seen Ware chase down a WR or dish it up Adrian Peterson? People may game plan around Ware, but they FEAR Willis, who consistently knock guys out of the game?
Here are Ware's numbers for his 5 year career:
Tackles: 278
Sacks: 64.5
Pass defended: 18
Int: 1
TD: 1
Forced Fumbles: 23
And Willis' 3 year career:
Tackles: 358
Sacks: 9
Pass Defended: 23
Int: 4
TD: 2
Forced Fumbles: 6
And you are trying to say Ware is better simply because he plays a more important position?
Remember that Willis only has two years under his belt and has a weaker supporting cast. I think your argument with a fellow fan has clouded your judgment. You also need to consider not hanging out with so many Dallas fans.
You know the more i read that guys posts the more it seems like hes a Cowboy fan tryina pull that lame "oh im one of you guys but im more realistic" stunt. When you read ZRFs posts you might really disagree with what he says but theres no question the man bleeds red and gold. This guy though..ive heard him big up the cowboys to no end and not a word of respect for the niners. ive heard him say " i cheer when they screw up and lose"...but the niners well they dont screw up and lose they just suck....hmmm double agent perhaps
Hey I'm a 49er fan since 1980, and I do bleed red and gold. But what's there to respect about the 49ers the last few years, they haven't done anything. We have sucked the last few years, no winning season since 2002, and you can't sugar coat that. But the culture is changing with Sing and Jed at the helm. With a few lucky breaks this year, we could have been in the playoffs.
Now I've been watching the Cowboys since 1991 consistently because that's who are nemesis were back then. Heck I admit I'm jealous in some ways of the Cowboys. They have Jerry Jones who will spend any amount of money to win, much like Eddie D. They also have a new stadium, while we don't even know where we might play in the near future. LA, Oakland, Santa Clara, maybe SF?
I was called an idiot because I thought Ware was the better player than Willis. I still believe that. This is a passing league, and Ware plays a position where you need a dominant player, and Ware was dominant when he was healthy this year. You don't get 1st team All-Pro 3 years in a row without being considered one of the best at your position.
Great pass rushers and cover corners are more coveted than great ILBs. Look at the voting this year for D MVP; it went Woodson, Revis, Dumervil, Sharper, and J. Allen. Sacks and picks are what you see on ESPN highlights not Willis's 12 tackle games unless he KOs someone like Hasselbeck. Willis is the BEST ILB in the league, and he can be D MVP in the near future, but he can improve his game such as pass recognition.
You didn't answer any of my questions.
We never refuted as Ware being the best at his position. The debate is weather Willis or Ware is better. Your argument is only based on the fact that Ware plays a "sexier" position. That does not make him better. Is Smith better then Gore because QB's are more coveted? No. Would you give Spencer the team MVP because he was our best player at a "coveted" position? No.
You have to look at the whole picture. Yeah Ware is a sackmaster, that is all. Willis is bigger, stronger, faster, and a harder hitter then Ware will ever be. Let Ware have his sacks, that's all that is asked of him. "Go hit the guy who's staring downfield" What a beast! He can POWN Vick, a 200 pound QB, or lay out Jason Cambell, but he can't knock Michael Turner backwards. He is just good at sacking that is it.
Willis has total all around game. And yes his coverage can be better, but as I said originally, give him two years.
And for the record, I think u are a cowboys fan. Otherwise you wouldn't beleive your 1 point about OLB's "coveted" so Ware must b better.
I have made more then one point sir. Give me somthing else besides his sacks.
GREAT POINTS and I can admit when I'm wrong when I'm not being attacked. I guess when you look past the sacks, Willis is obviously the better overall player. But you have to admit, Ware's position is schemed to get sacks and pressure just like Willis's position is to have plays funneled his way to make tackles. Hence the 278 tackles and 64.5 sacks for Ware and 358 tackles and 9 sacks for Willis.
By the way I am not a Dallas fan. When you have fantasy players on certain teams year after year, you tend to watch them a lot.
What is that? Willis gets alot of tackles cuz the plays are funneled to him??? That's a shot at Willis, by a supposed Niner fan! The Patrick Willis I see is always shooting gaps and taking to the hurt to the other teams, not waiting back for the plays to be "funneled" to him! That really sounds like a True Blue Dallas fan to me....
NINERS4LIFE!!!
Dude, I already admitted that I was wrong in the comparison. I was correctly noted that I was comparing positions, not players.
By the way, on Chronicle Live Takeo Spikes said it was his job to take on blockers so Willis can be kept clean. This was his answer to people wanting to see Willis in a 4-3 instead of a 3-4. Willis also can shoot gaps, forces fumbles, and hits like a ton of bricks as everyone knows.
[ Edited by FunkNinerFlex on Jan 18, 2010 at 22:18:59 ]
Jan 19, 2010 at 10:45 AM
- Giggidy
- Veteran
- Posts: 435
Originally posted by Dreskee:
P-Willy wont be on Ray Ray's level in the eyes of NON niner fans until this team starts winnin and makin the playoffs, and we have a top 5 defense year after year. Funny part is all this talk about Willis dont mean crap if he doesnt extend his contract with us. If we dont start winnin soon this guy will leave us. He did grow up a cowboy fan just throwin it out there.
I dunno...PW was the closest unanimous vote for all-pro, so I would like to think there are others who think he's getting close to Lewis' level (if not already there).
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txallproteam&prov=st&type=lgns