Joe Montana vs. Tom Brady

Originally posted by IDontGetNaked:
I thought it was Adam Vinatieri vs. Joe Montana. As far as contributing to post season wins.

Thank u Adam won all those superbowls

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

He doesn't have as much as Montana had. Not even close.

People on this site have idolized and glorified Montana because it is a 49ers fan site. He is envied here. But they fail to take into account the POWERHOUSE teams he was on year in and year out over the course of his career.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

While this holds truth, an MVP-caliber QB can (and likely will) make all the difference in the world. The Colts without Peyton Manning are an average or even below-average team. They obviously have many other well-known stars, but if you remove their MVP quarterback, they go from a championship contender to a middle-of-the-pack, fighting-for-2nd-place-in-their-division team.

On the other hand.. While Ben Roethlisburger is a good QB, if you remove him from the 2008 Steelers, they're still a contender because of their defense.

Big Ben has a better Defense backing him and so does / has Brady over time than Manning.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

He doesn't have as much as Montana had. Not even close.

People on this site have idolized and glorified Montana because it is a 49ers fan site. He is envied here. But they fail to take into account the POWERHOUSE teams he was on year in and year out over the course of his career.

So, he doesn't have nothing which is my point. To be considered the G.O.A.T in my eyes, the most important attribute is how clutch one is. Manning is a consistent choker in that department. Even the year they won it all, it was the D, not him that carried the team. Hell, he nearly blew it against the Chiefs. He's a glorified Marino with a ring.

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

People forget how many times Joe Montana DID NOT complete the comeback and they are also oblivious to how often Peyton Manning has brought his team back to win games. Aside from "The Catch" and the Super Bowl drive, most people can't even name a time when Joe Montana did his magic. I'm not saying Montana was not the most clutch QB of all time, I believe he is, but Peyton Manning is no slouch in that category or any other category pertaining to quarterbacking.

I really wouldn't expect anyone else here, in a 49ers fan forum, to acknowledge anyone other than Joe Montana as the greatest QB of all time, but people are really overlooking how great Peyton Manning really is.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

People forget how many times Joe Montana DID NOT complete the comeback and they are also oblivious to how often Peyton Manning has brought his team back to win games. Aside from "The Catch" and the Super Bowl drive, most people can't even name a time when Joe Montana did his magic. I'm not saying Montana was not the most clutch QB of all time, I believe he is, but Peyton Manning is no slouch in that category or any other category pertaining to quarterbacking.

I really wouldn't expect anyone else here, in a 49ers fan forum, to acknowledge anyone other than Joe Montana as the greatest QB of all time, but people are really overlooking how great Peyton Manning really is.

Give me a break. If there was a better QB I'd acknowledge him. My beef is it isn't Manning. I'd choose Brady over him every day of the week if it was a big game.

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

He doesn't have as much as Montana had. Not even close.

People on this site have idolized and glorified Montana because it is a 49ers fan site. He is envied here. But they fail to take into account the POWERHOUSE teams he was on year in and year out over the course of his career.

So, he doesn't have nothing which is my point. To be considered the G.O.A.T in my eyes, the most important attribute is how clutch one is. Manning is a consistent choker in that department. Even the year they won it all, it was the D, not him that carried the team. Hell, he nearly blew it against the Chiefs. He's a glorified Marino with a ring.

You're looking at the whole situation as negatively as possible as it pertains to Peyton Manning. The year they won the Super Bowl, their defense was ranked dead last in the league. They finally started playing decent defense with the return of Bob Sanders and that was all Manning needed to win it all. Every QB brought up in GOAT conversations has had defenses that did their share, EXCEPT Peyton Manning.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

He doesn't have as much as Montana had. Not even close.

People on this site have idolized and glorified Montana because it is a 49ers fan site. He is envied here. But they fail to take into account the POWERHOUSE teams he was on year in and year out over the course of his career.

So, he doesn't have nothing which is my point. To be considered the G.O.A.T in my eyes, the most important attribute is how clutch one is. Manning is a consistent choker in that department. Even the year they won it all, it was the D, not him that carried the team. Hell, he nearly blew it against the Chiefs. He's a glorified Marino with a ring.

You're looking at the whole situation as negatively as possible as it pertains to Peyton Manning. The year they won the Super Bowl, their defense was ranked dead last in the league. They finally started playing decent defense with the return of Bob Sanders and that was all Manning needed to win it all. Every QB brought up in GOAT conversations has had defenses that did their share, EXCEPT Peyton Manning.

And Peyton Manning shut it off until the second half of the pats game during that playoff run. So what is your point again? I know he is up there with the best of 'em, but no way I would ever say Manning is the greatest, just no way. There's a reason why he's never put in this conversation while Brady is.

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

People forget how many times Joe Montana DID NOT complete the comeback and they are also oblivious to how often Peyton Manning has brought his team back to win games. Aside from "The Catch" and the Super Bowl drive, most people can't even name a time when Joe Montana did his magic. I'm not saying Montana was not the most clutch QB of all time, I believe he is, but Peyton Manning is no slouch in that category or any other category pertaining to quarterbacking.

I really wouldn't expect anyone else here, in a 49ers fan forum, to acknowledge anyone other than Joe Montana as the greatest QB of all time, but people are really overlooking how great Peyton Manning really is.

Give me a break. If there was a better QB I'd acknowledge him. My beef is it isn't Manning. I'd choose Brady over him every day of the week if it was a big game.

Cut out the "give me a break" bullsh*t. You have your opinion, I have mine. I have come with reasoning in my responses, all you did was try to indirectly discredit my opinion and said you'd take another QB over the guy I was talking about, while providing no real argument.

People like you don't seem to understand the concept of opinions. You think that because you say "give me a break, I'll take so-and-so over him any day of the week" and "if there was someone better, I'd say they were better" you automatically when the debate. Please.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by 190836:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

Never!!

I think the only thing keeping Montana ahead of Manning in the eyes of most fans is the 4 Super Bowls Joe Cool has in comparison to Manning's 1, but if Manning had defenses like Joe had (or defenses like Tom Brady has had, or even just decent defenses that just showed up to play football), he'd likely have 4 or 5 rings of his own right now. I don't think there'd be any debate at that point.

The problem is that Manning during his playoff appearances has not been the same QB he has in the regular season. He has not helped his team and has crumbled. Yeah his defense was not the best but it sure wasn't horrible come playoff time were they did step up. Point is Montana won games in the playoffs by leading drives but also not making many mistakes that caused the team to lose like Manning has. Now in the regular season there is probably nobody that has played like manning has because the guy is a stud but for some reason he does not perform that well, however if he gets a another ring he will be up there in discussion for the best ever.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

People forget how many times Joe Montana DID NOT complete the comeback and they are also oblivious to how often Peyton Manning has brought his team back to win games. Aside from "The Catch" and the Super Bowl drive, most people can't even name a time when Joe Montana did his magic. I'm not saying Montana was not the most clutch QB of all time, I believe he is, but Peyton Manning is no slouch in that category or any other category pertaining to quarterbacking.

I really wouldn't expect anyone else here, in a 49ers fan forum, to acknowledge anyone other than Joe Montana as the greatest QB of all time, but people are really overlooking how great Peyton Manning really is.

Give me a break. If there was a better QB I'd acknowledge him. My beef is it isn't Manning. I'd choose Brady over him every day of the week if it was a big game.

Cut out the "give me a break" bullsh*t. You have your opinion, I have mine. I have come with reasoning in my responses, all you did was try to indirectly discredit my opinion and said you'd take another QB over the guy I was talking about, while providing no real argument.

People like you don't seem to understand the concept of opinions. You think that because you say "give me a break, I'll take so-and-so over him any day of the week" and "if there was someone better, I'd say they were better" you automatically when the debate. Please.

Uh, you miss the the post above or what? I'm not discrediting your opinion, I'm defending mine. Why are you getting so defensive?

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

He doesn't have as much as Montana had. Not even close.

People on this site have idolized and glorified Montana because it is a 49ers fan site. He is envied here. But they fail to take into account the POWERHOUSE teams he was on year in and year out over the course of his career.

So, he doesn't have nothing which is my point. To be considered the G.O.A.T in my eyes, the most important attribute is how clutch one is. Manning is a consistent choker in that department. Even the year they won it all, it was the D, not him that carried the team. Hell, he nearly blew it against the Chiefs. He's a glorified Marino with a ring.

You're looking at the whole situation as negatively as possible as it pertains to Peyton Manning. The year they won the Super Bowl, their defense was ranked dead last in the league. They finally started playing decent defense with the return of Bob Sanders and that was all Manning needed to win it all. Every QB brought up in GOAT conversations has had defenses that did their share, EXCEPT Peyton Manning.

And Peyton Manning shut it off until the second half of the pats game during that playoff run. So what is your point again? I know he is up there with the best of 'em, but no way I would ever say Manning is the greatest, just no way. There's a reason why he's never put in this conversation while Brady is.

Don't fool yourself. The ONLY reason Brady is included is because of the Super Bowls, which everyone with half a football brain knows is a team effort that Brady would have never accomplished without the defenses and kicker at his disposal.

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by blunt_probe:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Joe cool didn't lose a superbowl and never played like Brady is in today's playoff game. There was lack of clarity and conviction on this debate a couple of years ago. No more. When the big games come, the debate is over. Joe Montana is the better QB.


Discuss.....

I agree with you.



But Peyton > than Montana

lol. 4 super bowls > 1 super bowl

Peyton Manning is Dan Marino with 1 ring.

Joe Montana is the greatest player in NFL postseason history. period.

4 Super Bowls has something to do with the team you are on. The biggest myth in the world is that it's all the QB. And people right here on this very WZ believe that.

Montana had Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Fred Dean, Jerry Rice just to name a short few. It was pre salary cap era and nobody was as big of a spender as Eddie D. The 49ers fieled the best O Lines and best defenses year in and year out. And they had outstanding WR's, TE's and good special teams.

Montana didn't do that by himself. In fact in the salary cap era my bet would be he wouldn't win 4 times. Maybe 1 or 2.

What a load of crock. You guys make it sound like Manning has nothing and isn't playing in a more pass friendly era. The real reason everyone says Montana is because of how clutch he was. Ask yourself this. One drive to win it at all. Who do you choose: Manning or Montana? /discussion

People forget how many times Joe Montana DID NOT complete the comeback and they are also oblivious to how often Peyton Manning has brought his team back to win games. Aside from "The Catch" and the Super Bowl drive, most people can't even name a time when Joe Montana did his magic. I'm not saying Montana was not the most clutch QB of all time, I believe he is, but Peyton Manning is no slouch in that category or any other category pertaining to quarterbacking.

I really wouldn't expect anyone else here, in a 49ers fan forum, to acknowledge anyone other than Joe Montana as the greatest QB of all time, but people are really overlooking how great Peyton Manning really is.

Give me a break. If there was a better QB I'd acknowledge him. My beef is it isn't Manning. I'd choose Brady over him every day of the week if it was a big game.

Cut out the "give me a break" bullsh*t. You have your opinion, I have mine. I have come with reasoning in my responses, all you did was try to indirectly discredit my opinion and said you'd take another QB over the guy I was talking about, while providing no real argument.

People like you don't seem to understand the concept of opinions. You think that because you say "give me a break, I'll take so-and-so over him any day of the week" and "if there was someone better, I'd say they were better" you automatically when the debate. Please.

Uh, you miss the the post above or what? I'm not discrediting your opinion, I'm defending mine. Why are you getting so defensive?

Miss the post? Actually, yeah. I clicked reply, then I had to take a dump so I went and handled that, and when I came back I typed the reply you just quoted. Obviously you submitted your response "above" while I was sh*tting and then replying to your previous post.

Originally posted by 49erRider:


Don't fool yourself. The ONLY reason Brady is included is because of the Super Bowls, which everyone with half a football brain knows is a team effort that Brady would have never accomplished without the defenses and kicker at his disposal.

Is it his fault that he only needed 3 pts to win? It's SBs and being clutch with him. Even when Brady had no weapons he was still able to win. Then in '07 when he did have quality weapons, he killed the NFL.

Mike Moroski>>>Jeff Kemp>>>Joe Montana