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Why I am worried about bring back Jimmy Raye

  • dmax
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,043
we need to get better on 1st and 2nd down
with upgrades on the oline..BIG TIME

[ Edited by dmax on Jan 12, 2010 at 13:57:16 ]
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I think bringing him back is a good idea. The only thing we haven't tried is consistency and continuity. We can keep doing this 10 Offensive Coordinators in 10 years or 15 Offensive Coordinators in 15 years but at some point you have to realize that is not going to help our team gel. We have done that now over and over enough to know it's a losing formula.

How about this? We give Alex Smith the same Offensive Coordinator and same system 2 years in a row for the first time in his entire career. Gee what a concept...

Agreed

But...we're talking about Raye calling what looks like a goalline play on 3rd and 18. We all seen a lot of these this season. This part of continuity cant continue. He has to trust these guys at some point in time.
Just gonna throw this out there.........

Anybody else ever wonder what the offense would've looked like if Martz was still OC?

I think we would've seen a much better offense..........just saying........


















Originally posted by AKfanster:
Just gonna throw this out there.........

Anybody else ever wonder what the offense would've looked like if Martz was still OC?

I think we would've seen a much better offense..........just saying........

With no OL?? WOW. We would have been much worse on offense, and defense as well because of it. Gore would not have had 1,000 yards, and EVERYBODY would still be calling Vernon a bust.


That is the funniest thing that I have heard yet this year













Originally posted by AKfanster:
Just gonna throw this out there.........

Anybody else ever wonder what the offense would've looked like if Martz was still OC?

I think we would've seen a much better offense..........just saying........

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up. While I was not a fan of Martz, being pulled back a bit by Singletary really seemed to work and work well with Hill at QB. If Hill had started all 16 games last year, he would have been ranked very high last year (I believe it would have been witin the top 10 QB's). Guys such as Bruce, Morgan, Hill, Gore, etc. all excelled. And the offensive line got better the more we went to a balance. The 3rd down %'s were much better under Martz then Raye. I think, with the switch to Smith, adding Crabtree, I think Martz's system was more tailored to the strengths of ALL of our players save for one - V.Davis. That said, Alex has a propensity to always look for the TE so you can assume once they made a few plays, Martz would start to evolve himself and exploit those mismatches as well. Either way, I have no doubt that the continuity of Martz's system and if he was willling to focus on balance a little more, we would be miles ahead of Raye's offense this year. Hell, I wouldn't have been surprised if Hill was still the starting QB either with Alex learning/waiting in the background. Interesting thought!
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Just gonna throw this out there.........

Anybody else ever wonder what the offense would've looked like if Martz was still OC?

I think we would've seen a much better offense..........just saying........

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up. While I was not a fan of Martz, being pulled back a bit by Singletary really seemed to work and work well with Hill at QB. If Hill had started all 16 games last year, he would have been ranked very high last year (I believe it would have been witin the top 10 QB's). Guys such as Bruce, Morgan, J.Hill, Gore, etc. all excelled. And the offensive line got better the more we went to a balance. The OL was terrible across the board under Raye's predictable play-calling. I'm actually surprised we didn't have MORE injuries...including at the QB position. The 3rd down %'s were much better under Martz then Raye. I think, with the switch to Smith, adding Crabtree, I think Martz's system was more tailored to the strengths of ALL of our players save for one - V.Davis. That said, Alex has a propensity to always look for the TE so you can assume once they made a few plays, Martz would start to evolve himself and exploit those mismatches as well. The OL was much better under Hill and when Singletary took over and curbed Martz's wide-open approach.

Either way, I have no doubt that the continuity of Martz's system and if he was willling to focus on balance a little more, we would be miles ahead of Raye's offense this year. Hell, I wouldn't have been surprised if Hill was still the starting QB either with Alex learning/waiting in the background. Interesting thought!

[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 14, 2010 at 09:17:46 ]
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Just gonna throw this out there.........

Anybody else ever wonder what the offense would've looked like if Martz was still OC?

I think we would've seen a much better offense..........just saying........




















Nope Cuz Vern woulda had about 3 TD's instead of 12. Remember Martz didnt understand that Vern can do more then block
Originally posted by SF4EVA:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Just gonna throw this out there.........

Anybody else ever wonder what the offense would've looked like if Martz was still OC?

I think we would've seen a much better offense..........just saying........




















Nope Cuz Vern woulda had about 3 TD's instead of 12. Remember Martz didnt understand that Vern can do more then block
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Just gonna throw this out there.........

Anybody else ever wonder what the offense would've looked like if Martz was still OC?

I think we would've seen a much better offense..........just saying........

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up. While I was not a fan of Martz, being pulled back a bit by Singletary really seemed to work and work well with Hill at QB. If Hill had started all 16 games last year, he would have been ranked very high last year (I believe it would have been witin the top 10 QB's). Guys such as Bruce, Morgan, Hill, Gore, etc. all excelled. And the offensive line got better the more we went to a balance. The 3rd down %'s were much better under Martz then Raye. I think, with the switch to Smith, adding Crabtree, I think Martz's system was more tailored to the strengths of ALL of our players save for one - V.Davis. That said, Alex has a propensity to always look for the TE so you can assume once they made a few plays, Martz would start to evolve himself and exploit those mismatches as well. Either way, I have no doubt that the continuity of Martz's system and if he was willling to focus on balance a little more, we would be miles ahead of Raye's offense this year. Hell, I wouldn't have been surprised if Hill was still the starting QB either with Alex learning/waiting in the background. Interesting thought!

I agree 100%. People seem to forget how good our offense looked with Hill at the helm under Martz later in '08. We won the TOP handily in a few games as well...something we've never been good at.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Just gonna throw this out there.........

Anybody else ever wonder what the offense would've looked like if Martz was still OC?

I think we would've seen a much better offense..........just saying........

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up. While I was not a fan of Martz, being pulled back a bit by Singletary really seemed to work and work well with Hill at QB. If Hill had started all 16 games last year, he would have been ranked very high last year (I believe it would have been witin the top 10 QB's). Guys such as Bruce, Morgan, Hill, Gore, etc. all excelled. And the offensive line got better the more we went to a balance. The 3rd down %'s were much better under Martz then Raye. I think, with the switch to Smith, adding Crabtree, I think Martz's system was more tailored to the strengths of ALL of our players save for one - V.Davis. That said, Alex has a propensity to always look for the TE so you can assume once they made a few plays, Martz would start to evolve himself and exploit those mismatches as well. Either way, I have no doubt that the continuity of Martz's system and if he was willling to focus on balance a little more, we would be miles ahead of Raye's offense this year. Hell, I wouldn't have been surprised if Hill was still the starting QB either with Alex learning/waiting in the background. Interesting thought!

I agree 100%. People seem to forget how good our offense looked with Hill at the helm under Martz later in '08. We won the TOP handily in a few games as well...something we've never been good at.

Hill at the helm...............4 words I hope to never see or hear again.
Originally posted by KknighthawkK_9er:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Just gonna throw this out there.........

Anybody else ever wonder what the offense would've looked like if Martz was still OC?

I think we would've seen a much better offense..........just saying........

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up. While I was not a fan of Martz, being pulled back a bit by Singletary really seemed to work and work well with Hill at QB. If Hill had started all 16 games last year, he would have been ranked very high last year (I believe it would have been witin the top 10 QB's). Guys such as Bruce, Morgan, Hill, Gore, etc. all excelled. And the offensive line got better the more we went to a balance. The 3rd down %'s were much better under Martz then Raye. I think, with the switch to Smith, adding Crabtree, I think Martz's system was more tailored to the strengths of ALL of our players save for one - V.Davis. That said, Alex has a propensity to always look for the TE so you can assume once they made a few plays, Martz would start to evolve himself and exploit those mismatches as well. Either way, I have no doubt that the continuity of Martz's system and if he was willling to focus on balance a little more, we would be miles ahead of Raye's offense this year. Hell, I wouldn't have been surprised if Hill was still the starting QB either with Alex learning/waiting in the background. Interesting thought!

I agree 100%. People seem to forget how good our offense looked with Hill at the helm under Martz later in '08. We won the TOP handily in a few games as well...something we've never been good at.

Hill at the helm...............4 words I hope to never see or hear again.

Come on man, that's a little ignorant. Nobody here is saying Hill was the next Joe Montana but we have to look at facts here. Hill only started 8 games last year OFF THE BENCH and played in a dumbed-down version of Martz's system and put up 2,046 yards. To put that into perspective, had he played the full 16 games he would have ranked 4th in NFL last year in yards only behind Drew Brees, Kurt Warner & Jay Cutler. He would have been ahead of Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Donovan McNabb & Matt Cassel. That's damn good company!

To make another point, that would be close to 700 yards less with Alex Smith under Jimmy Raye's offense this season had Smith played a full 16 games.


So, imagine if Singletary & Martz's ego didn't get in the way and they were able to work together for contunuity and balance. Imagine what Martz could have done with Alex Smith (better arm) the emergence of VD and Michael Crabtree.

The last 8 games in 2008 we played very well, were effecient, more balanced, were much better on 3rd downs, were less predictable, more creative, etc.

Instead, we've got Raye this year for continuity and Johnson helping HIM on learning about a spread offense, something our whole team is better equipped for. This is sad IMHO!

[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 15, 2010 at 13:47:59 ]
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
We didnt improve on 3rd down as the season went on. We never fixed that problem. It was a problem throughout the entire season. Singletary said stuff like "the players are not executing the plays on 3rd down", but if you ask me, the problem is 3rd down playcalling.

It's hard to have 3000 packages for 3rd and long. We need to fix the line so that we can gain some ground on First down run plays... That way we can get into 2nd or 3rd and short.

Word
Anybody watch this video of Raye?

There were some things that he said that really were some red flags for me, specifically regarding his philosophy. On running the ball, playing fundamentally sound (tough and physical), not turn the ball over and TRY to be in a position to win it in the 4th quarter. He's still going to make the final calls on plays (what about audibles?). His comments about passing is almost an after thought to running but if two teams are equally good at running (those teams in the playoffs), passing may give you the edge or be the difference but the focus should be on the run (it actually looked like it fhysically hurt to say the word "pass"). He doesn't want to stand out (be creative, IMHO) and go with the trends b/c they come full circle...stick to the fundamentals. He also noted that Alex finally spoke out about things he didn't like about the offense (which was a surprise - what, you thought our offense was good?) but took a word is mum approach last year. Why is that? Anyone and their mother could predict just about 75% of our plays last year - glad to hear Alex finally stepped up (through Sinlgetary) and reinforced it this year...but should the QB be questioning our OC? Can you imagine Joe Montana questioning Bill Walsh?

Jimmy Raye - May 18th, 2010

He's well spoken, very mellow...talking about building on last year and how important that continuity is. He said the coaching staff knows the players better.

One of my big concerns was that I felt Singletary/Raye's philosophy didn't fit well with our personnel and has very much become outdated (not the basic fundamentals) but how this has become a passing league that is used to set up the run. Sound familiar 49er fans?

What are your thoughts?
[ Edited by NCommand on May 19, 2010 at 8:39 PM ]
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
We didnt improve on 3rd down as the season went on. We never fixed that problem. It was a problem throughout the entire season. Singletary said stuff like "the players are not executing the plays on 3rd down", but if you ask me, the problem is 3rd down playcalling.

It's hard to have 3000 packages for 3rd and long. We need to fix the line so that we can gain some ground on First down run plays... That way we can get into 2nd or 3rd and short.

Very good point - that said, it may be too early to judge Raye's playcalling especially if our skill players don't have the time to execute. If we can get a yard or two more per run play on our early downs then we'll have more options for third down.
Raye/Singletary's continuing talk of "power football" is what worries me. If we try to run up the gut two thirds of the time like we did last year, this team is in trouble. Even with the best OL in football, it's hard to beat a defense that knows what is coming.

One of the other things that worry me about all of our coaches (sing, Raye and manusky) is the more time we had to prepare for a team, the worse we played. It looked like our coaches couldn't prepare a gameplan--even with extra time to do it. Look at the games we had extra time to prepare for--Houston & GB. The team didn't get off the bus in Houston until we were down by 21points and scrapped the gameplan in favor of the spread. In GB, the game wasn't as close as the score indicated (and we were down by 20 at halftime). We blew numerous chances and the team looked scared.

Yet again, we had a giant midseason swoon. We won 3 of our first 4 games and 3 of our last 4. That sounds great, but we lost 6 of our middle 8 games. This team fell apart like that under Nolan and it continues under Singletary. If that doesn't change this year, we can forget the playoffs. This year, the middle 8 games will be: Philly, Oakland, Carolina, Denver, Stlou, TB, AZ, and GB. We've got to take care of business in those games--we've got to win at least 5 of them.


THAT has to change.